27 replies to this topic

[kevin12]

What effects does Acetylcholine have on personality? Could increasing Acetylcholine make you more sociable and decrease social anxiety?

ACETYLCHOLINE NATURE You are adept at working with your senses and view the world in
sensory terms. You are highly creative and open to new ideas. You are a quick thinker who is
always taking other people into consideration. You are devoted to making things the best they
can be, no matter how much effort it requires. You are flexible, creative, and spontaneous, and
are willing to try anything new as long as it promises to be new and exciting. If your
acetylcholine nature is in balance, you are intuitive and innovative. You take pleasure in
anything involving words, ideas, and communication. (Acetylcholine is produced to a great
extent in the parietal lobes of the brain, which is responsible for language, intelligence, and
comprehension) You may be ideal in the roles as counselor, mediator, think tank member, yoga
and meditation instructor, religious leader, and in public service. Strong acetylcholine levels are
associated with high brain speed, which impacts the creative function, so artists, writers,
advertising professionals, and actors are frequently acetylcholine dominant. You are extremely
social, even charismatic. You love meeting and greeting and making new friends. You come
across to others as authentic and grounded. People find you charming, and you find
relationships come easy to you. You invest a great deal of energy and time into your
relationships and feel that you are personally reaping the rewards. You are an optimist, and your
see the possibilities in people. You are attentive to the needs of children and romantic with you
significant other. You are good at remembering other people’s feelings and reactions, and this
enables you to not hurt others. You are altruistic and benevolent. You love adventure. You are
open to new things and not afraid of failure. You like to travel, but you can also enjoy reading
about the lives of others. Your quest for learning makes you interested in a variety of topics and
adept at sharing your knowledge with others.

It says people with high ACh are very sociable and charismatic, is this true? Legit ?

EDIT: i didnt know where to post this, mod can change if required

Edited by kevin12, 05 January 2014 - 09:44 PM.

[jonathan-g]

It smells like a horoscope, i wouldnt pay too much attention to that.

[YoungSchizo]

Lol yea, it's sounds like a horoscope, though, I'm curious, what's the source of this article..? I remember the "old" me in this, I'm still the same but at the same time I'm not. One of the reasons, my Acetylcholine (and many more) receptors do not function proper anymore..

Reading up on Acetylcholine and it's function in the brain it might very well effect your personality.. Because, if EVP-6124 (a drug in phase III clinical trials which I'm going to be a part of) will make my Acetylcholine receptors work more properly my personality will also "change", change me more to the old me, if you know what I mean..

[kevin12]

diffrent sources, http://www.drmyhill....iki/edge_effect

http://www.createvib...ter-assessment/

http://advancedpsych...verman.test.pdf

the text in first post i couldnt find source, but this is similiar: http://books.google....onality&f=false

[Multicultural Harmony]

There are entire books written for ACh... which I never seem to get around to reading. You can probably spend an entire lifetime reading about ACh if you were masochistic enough. I try to view things in terms of neuronal circuits (when I have the time). ACh as a signalling molecule can effect pretty much all other monoaminergic systems, it is highly involved in the anti-inflammatory process too, etc, etc. The only solution is to read about it.

[BioFreak]

It's been said to be increasing empathy and putting the needs of others in front of your own(at least, too much acetylcholine). From personal experience I would agree. And sure, low acetylcholine = bad memory, slow thinking(as can be said about low dopamine too, but with high dopamine its the opposite of what I said in the first sentence - less empathy, more egoism).

The quote looks like it comes from bravermans book the edge effect? While he seems to be on track with a lot of things, with others, not so much. For example his neurotransmitter questionaire. I would consider it a first draft, not ready to be printed in a book... Or his supplement recommendations. Some seem to have a small effect, it any...
His book is more like a novel, with 50% facts, 50% gut feeling from his personal view. I liked to read it though.

[YoungSchizo]

diffrent sources, http://www.drmyhill....iki/edge_effect

http://www.createvib...ter-assessment/

http://advancedpsych...verman.test.pdf

the text in first post i couldnt find source, but this is similiar: http://books.google....onality&f=false

I'm not in the mood for much reading so had a quick look into it and saved it for later.
Interesting questionnaire, thanks!! +1

[kevin12]

There are entire books written for ACh... which I never seem to get around to reading. You can probably spend an entire lifetime reading about ACh if you were masochistic enough. I try to view things in terms of neuronal circuits (when I have the time). ACh as a signalling molecule can effect pretty much all other monoaminergic systems, it is highly involved in the anti-inflammatory process too, etc, etc. The only solution is to read about it.

What are the name of these books for example?

There are entire books written for ACh... which I never seem to get around to reading. You can probably spend an entire lifetime reading about ACh if you were masochistic enough. I try to view things in terms of neuronal circuits (when I have the time). ACh as a signalling molecule can effect pretty much all other monoaminergic systems, it is highly involved in the anti-inflammatory process too, etc, etc. The only solution is to read about it.

What are the name of these books for example?

[Multicultural Harmony]

Start here: http://en.wikipedia....holine_receptor

Then graduate to here:
Muscarinic Receptors
Allison D. Fryer, Arthur Christopoulos, Neil M. Nathanson

Nicotinic Acetylcholine Receptors in the Nervous System
Francesco Clementi, Cecilia Gotti, Emanuele Sher

Nicotinic Acetylcholine Receptors: From Molecular Biology to Cognition
By Jean-Pierre Changeux, Stuart J. Edelstein

Acetylcholine in the Cerebral Cortex
edited by Laurent Descarries, Université de Montréal. Centre de recherche en sciences neurologiques. International Symposium, Krešimir Krnjević, Mircea Steriade


Then connect the remaining dots using pubmed. You will soon see what I mean by 'an entire lifetime', lol.

Different ligands can also effect the system in other ways than ACh. Nicotine is an interesting molecule to start investigation into this system. Depending on your attention span and interest. I'm more interesting in 5-ht, circadian rhythm and energy metabolism regulation.

Edited by Pitolisant, 07 January 2014 - 07:20 PM.

[kevin12]

Thank you! Does these sources say about Ach effect on behaviour/personality, there are a lot about Dopamine effects on personality but i dont find much about Ach

Edited by kevin12, 07 January 2014 - 08:58 PM.

[lammas2]

I think it is very hard, if not impossible, to isolate the effects caused by a single neurotransmitter. They are all interconnected and the increase of one neurotransmitter can have a huge effect on other neurotransmitters and our central nervous system as a whole. Just have a look at the diversity of human neurotransmitters: we have monoamines and catecholamines (serotonin, dopamine, noradrenaline, adrenaline, histamine); amino acids like glutamate and GABA, opioid peptides, acetylcholine, adenosine, nitric oxide etc. Even hormones influence our CNS: testosterone, estrogen, prolactin...

All the NTs have their respective receptors; some have just one, but dopamine is a ligand for at least five different types of receptors. Acetylcholine is a ligand for two types of receptors, the nicotinic and muscarinic ACh receptors. If we dig even deeper, we find out that muscarinic ACh receptors have at least five subtypes! The receptors are located all over the brains and agonizing a receptor in one part of the brain can have totally opposite effects, compared to agonizing the same type of receptor in a different part of brain.

A neurotransmitter can have totally different effects on different brains - we need to take into account the ratios of different receptor subtypes and also their sensitivity. Let's assume that muscarinic ACh receptor M1, when agonized by ACh, causes extreme euphoria and empathy for person A. When person B increases his acetylcholine levels to agonize the M1 receptor, all he feels is dysphoria and depression. Why? Maybe he has a much lower ratio of M1/M5 receptors in his brain (if we also assume, that agonizing the M5 receptor is dysphoric). Gene expression has a huge influence on the receptors in our brains. You won't find two brains that are identical. Even if we observe identical twins, it is very likely their brains are significantly different - epigenetic changes occur every day.

So, to sum it all up,

It smells like a horoscope, i wouldnt pay too much attention to that.

[Multicultural Harmony]

ACh will mostly exert its effects on cognition and personality indirectly, except perhaps in apathy caused by dementia (ACh shortage) and in the case of reducing pathological inflammation via vagus nerve: http://www.rndsystem...gicPathway.aspx

The solution is to start reading until you get the hang of things.

[Multicultural Harmony]

By the way I hate reading. It is the only way to grasp the material, however. Unless perhaps your brother or uncle happens to be a professor in biology like Robert Sapolsky, otherwise it is read or be SOL.

I hate reading.

[YoungSchizo]

ACh will mostly exert its effects on cognition and personality indirectly, except perhaps in apathy caused by dementia (ACh shortage) and in the case of reducing pathological inflammation via vagus nerve: http://www.rndsystem...gicPathway.aspx

The solution is to start reading until you get the hang of things.

This might explain why some schizophrenics also show a reduction in negative & positive symptoms in previous study's with EVP-6124.

[xks201]

It's so much more complicated than that. lol

[YoungSchizo]

It smells like a horoscope, i wouldnt pay too much attention to that.

I did the Braverman test (where the "horoscope" is from) and I must say this test gave me a realistic indication about the dominance of my neurotransmitters/personality. In the first part of the test I scored very high in Dopamine and Acetylcholine dominance and I really can relate to the "horoscope" attached to it. (The "horoscope" of GABA and Serotonin not so much). In the second part I scored very high in GABA and Serotonin deficiency which I also can relate to because I use Mirtazapine and Rivotril to balance those two.

It's so much more complicated than that. lol

Ehh.. lol I know, I meant it as an good indication to why EVP-6124, aside from cognition, also may affect positive and negatives in some schizophrenics. (EVP-6124 is developed as a cognitive enhancer not as a anti-psychotic)

Edited by YoungS, 09 January 2014 - 04:52 PM.

[Multicultural Harmony]

Seriously, I recommend reading. Everything I've found so far that works well for me has been through reading endless amounts of pubmed. You will soon learn to hate it though. But the benefits I've gotten have been worth it.

Benefits in my case meaning from severe depression to almost normal, but not yet 100 or even 99%.

IMO the current state of modern medicine is best apt to treat pathological states, which is why I criticize the layman's quest for 'nootropics'. My suggestion would be is to find the weakest link of your chain of health/wellbeing and work on correcting that first. I think nootropics are still drugs of the future, no pill currently in existence is going to turn you into a (social) genius, at least not in any way that is sustainable or that significantly matters. Give it another decade of progress and this may no longer be the case. But I prefer to work with what is available, which is unfortunately not much.

Better targets for a pro-social personality change are of course DA and oxytocin related shit (receptors, circuits, nuclei). Unless you are bipolar and are willing to risk looking into finding ways to trigger your manic state.

Edited by Pitolisant, 09 January 2014 - 06:23 PM.

[Mobc1990]

Youngschizo,are you taking evp-6124 already?what positive did you notice?

[bzyb]

what are some good nootropic and natural supplements to increase Acetylcholine?

[Mobc1990]

I am sceptic about supplement after 4 years of continuos trying,don't wanna waste anymore money on supplement,I was offered a trial in evp-6124,hope my family allow me to try it because my thinking is very poor

[merritt]

I recently wrote post about Edge Effect test and boosting neurotransmitters supplementation

http://nextgen-human...edge-effect/276 .

I did the tests for myself and i think that there is something in this "horoscope" which just surprisingly fits ..

Maybe this is "pseudoscience", but it just works for me.

Edited by merritt, 10 January 2014 - 05:47 AM.

[YoungSchizo]

Exactly, that's also what I concluded from the test and the "horoscope" attached to it. My nephew is gonna take the test, as I know him (know him my whole life) he fits right in the GABA dominance according to the "horoscope". If he comes out on GABA than this test is quite good to give a realistic indication. (My nephew has no clue what neurotransmitters are so he has 0% reason to fake it)

Though, the deficiency symptoms and supplementation part is to far fetched imo

@mobc, as I already said, I did not start with EVP, still waiting for the enrollment to start somewhere in February.

Edited by YoungS, 10 January 2014 - 04:27 PM.

[Multicultural Harmony]

LoL. You guys are funny.

[YoungSchizo]

LoL. You guys are funny.

I know I am, I was a successful comedian in my previous life. You know how I know? Braverman's Horoscope told me

[Multicultural Harmony]

My experience w/ supplements has also been rather dismal. The only supplements I notice any benefit at all seem to address physiology in the areas my health is weak, otherwise I don't notice much unless I take massive doses, for example. Massive doses of fucoidan begin to feel like low dose lithium carbonate in that it creates that mellow brain-foggy like effect which I suppose may have 'neuroprotective' properties but IMO just feels shitty. I read first, address things more strategically so have a higher success rate than trying shit because they sound neat, complete garbage like cordyceps for example... ooh mysterious caterpillar fungus with hypothetical 'stimulant' superman !!!adaptogenic!!! properties properties that Shaolin Kung fu monks use to hone their mind control skills with..... In other words advertising. I ignore advertising because it is evil and promotes stupidity and empties my wallet for garbage that will not work.

I rarely ever find advertising in a text book that hardly anyone is willing to read so I no longer have advertising to cloud my judgement so I waste a lot less money now. I don't even give a damn about fancy research chemicals unless they address a target that has helped me before or is connected to something I have read in a dense text book.

[merritt]

@Pitolisant,

and where is the point of your post ? I don't get it.

This is a discussion about neurotransmitter acetylcholine not about brands.

I advertise eggs as a source. Do You don't trust hens which lay eggs ? Are they evil ?

[Multicultural Harmony]

I'm simply offering a more logical approach that can be tailored to the individual's (OP's) own physiology. I obviously don't have the answer for him bc I don't know his own subjective experience or goals. He does. There are sources for him to pursue and meet his goals successfully rather than be caught up in crap. What works for me may not work for him. Not everyone is willing to read textbooks so that they can understand the underlying physiology to actually get the results they seek.

[Mobc1990]

Exactly, that's also what I concluded from the test and the "horoscope" attached to it. My nephew is gonna take the test, as I know him (know him my whole life) he fits right in the GABA dominance according to the "horoscope". If he comes out on GABA than this test is quite good to give a realistic indication. (My nephew has no clue what neurotransmitters are so he has 0% reason to fake it)

Though, the deficiency symptoms and supplementation part is to far fetched imo

@mobc, as I already said, I did not start with EVP, still waiting for the enrollment to start somewhere in February.

Good luck to you,I think I am also starting soon,but I must pass the screening first...