185 replies to this topic

[Reformed-Redan]

I don't think it is anyone's place to make rules for every group buy. I think that is up to the seller and buyers.

And I don't the hysteria with suppliers who happen to come from China or Hong Kong. It's not like most nootropics you are taking aren't from China. I bet most of us got out first batches of Piracetam in powder from China. That doesn't mean 3'rd party testing from random samples should always be conducted.

[boff]

Did your HK lab not provide a COA? Could you post it here please. I know it's not independent, but it would be a small reassurance.

[ScienceGuy]

I don't think it is anyone's place to make rules for every group buy. I think that is up to the seller and buyers.

And I don't the hysteria with suppliers who happen to come from China or Hong Kong. It's not like most nootropics you are taking aren't from China. I bet most of us got out first batches of Piracetam in powder from China. That doesn't mean 3'rd party testing from random samples should always be conducted.

I have chosen to move my reply to these posts to THIS thread, as I feel that is where the topic of discussion is most relevant: GROUP BUYS - RULES & PROTOCOL

Edited by ScienceGuy, 18 January 2014 - 08:49 AM.

[xks201]

Scienceguy, I would die to be able to maintain your level of composure and thorough attention to empathetic detail that I only could obtain on a steady dose of adderall..... What does your stack look like nowadays?

[sparkk51]

I know this is very early, but is there still interest out there for another BPAP group buy? I feel with the way things have gone for this last one, either a lab test on the current substance must be done to ensure good purity or another purchase be made from another supplier. I still believe in this chemical being the closest to what I what and can get so far within nootropics, but I'm very worried about the safety and effectiveness of what we currently have. With the supposed ~50% impurities found by Uralsky, there is no way I can ingest this substance as it is.

Edited by sparkk51, 19 January 2014 - 04:35 AM.

[Lurkerbob]

What was yada saying about a one gram sample that nobody wanted to test? At the rate of 300 mics per ml that one gram sample would be 3 liters. Call me crazy but a lot of things this yada was talkin about sound like complete bs. I don't know about y'all but it is insulting to my intelligence when somebody promises a gram, to about 20 participants and then only gets them 10 mg but starts talkin about a one gram sample which is in their possession. Callin it " my one gram sample" 200 mg to the 20 participants in Total who paid around 4 grand in total and 1 gram for yada! But that's not the biggest insult. Expecting us to believe that you got a 3 liter one gram sample shipped from china is basically calling us idiots. What kind of cheap terrorists send people DMSO for what we all know are ingestion purposes? I even saw one person askin yada bout hypothetically ingesting and yada answering bout really ingestin the 50 percent bpap diluted with poison to some tremendously watered down proportion. I hate to nit pick but this thread is infested with nits.

[Lurkerbob]

By the way 3 liters of DMSO weighs about 3.3 kilos and it would take 3 liters of DMSO to hold one gram at 300 mics per ml even LSD ain't diluted that much and even drug dealers know better than to use DMSO or something that tastes like shit and is neurotoxic. I demand that we are given the contact details of the supplier or at least one person other than yada gets to ask the supplier some questions. I ain't askin yada for no money for nobody, but we need to be able to have one elected representative correspond with these Chinese DMSO pushers and I don't want it to be yada. I am a lawyer (sorry for the colloquial slang.) I also have a physics degree.

[Hebbeh]

I am a lawyer I also have a physics degree.

Whew....for a minute there...I thought you might be the DEA...

[xks201]

This reminds me of that Simpsons movie where they chase Homer through town with flaming torches.

[Reformed-Redan]

This reminds me of that Simpsons movie where they chase Homer through town with flaming torches.

Yikes. I think illiteracy is the new norm on these internets these dayz.

All the more reason why I'm done with group buys with random ppl.

What was yada saying about a one gram sample that nobody wanted to test? At the rate of 300 mics per ml that one gram sample would be 3 liters. Call me crazy but a lot of things this yada was talkin about sound like complete bs. I don't know about y'all but it is insulting to my intelligence when somebody promises a gram, to about 20 participants and then only gets them 10 mg but starts talkin about a one gram sample which is in their possession. Callin it " my one gram sample" 200 mg to the 20 participants in Total who paid around 4 grand in total and 1 gram for yada! But that's not the biggest insult. Expecting us to believe that you got a 3 liter one gram sample shipped from china is basically calling us idiots. What kind of cheap terrorists send people DMSO for what we all know are ingestion purposes? I even saw one person askin yada bout hypothetically ingesting and yada answering bout really ingestin the 50 percent bpap diluted with poison to some tremendously watered down proportion. I hate to nit pick but this thread is infested with nits.

You know what? You're right. Who could possibly ship that much BPAP in powder form? Beats me.

[Lurkerbob]

This reminds me of that Simpsons movie where they chase Homer through town with flaming torches.

Yikes. I think illiteracy is the new norm on these internets these dayz.

All the more reason why I'm done with group buys with random ppl.

What was yada saying about a one gram sample that nobody wanted to test? At the rate of 300 mics per ml that one gram sample would be 3 liters. Call me crazy but a lot of things this yada was talkin about sound like complete bs. I don't know about y'all but it is insulting to my intelligence when somebody promises a gram, to about 20 participants and then only gets them 10 mg but starts talkin about a one gram sample which is in their possession. Callin it " my one gram sample" 200 mg to the 20 participants in Total who paid around 4 grand in total and 1 gram for yada! But that's not the biggest insult. Expecting us to believe that you got a 3 liter one gram sample shipped from china is basically calling us idiots. What kind of cheap terrorists send people DMSO for what we all know are ingestion purposes? I even saw one person askin yada bout hypothetically ingesting and yada answering bout really ingestin the 50 percent bpap diluted with poison to some tremendously watered down proportion. I hate to nit pick but this thread is infested with nits.

You know what? You're right. Who could possibly ship that much BPAP in powder form? Beats me.

So you have a gram in powder form? I was under the impression that all the bpap had been diluted at the rate of 300 micrograms per ml in DMSO.

illiterate?

Please yada.. Would you like me to start correcting your spelling for you?

BUMP

Edited by Lurkerbob, 21 January 2014 - 07:07 AM.

[ScienceGuy]

Whilst I can fully understand and appreciate everyone's frustration and anger at what has transpired here, can I please ask that everyone make a special effort to remain SOLUTION ORIENTATED and avoid conversation degrading into an AD HOMINEM mud-slinging contest

If anyone feels the need to point the finger of BLAME and/or vent their fully understandable anger and frustration IMO the more accurate target is in fact THE SUPPLIER and not the Group Buy ORGANIZER (i.e. YADAYADA), given that it is irrefutably THE SUPPLIER who is the root cause of all these product-related quality control issues, including: the inclusion of DMSO, a significant amount of OTHER IMPURITIES, and considerably less total QUANTITY of BPAP than was ordered. Please kindly note that whilst I am sure that everyone is in agreement that the organization of this particular Group Buy leaves some room for improvement, all of these primary issues have occurred as a consequence of THE SUPPLIER and not the Group Buy ORGANIZER (i.e. YADAYADA), who in some respects is just as much a victim of having been let down by THE SUPPLIER as everyone else.

What was yada saying about a one gram sample that nobody wanted to test? At the rate of 300 mics per ml that one gram sample would be 3 liters. Call me crazy but a lot of things this yada was talkin about sound like complete bs. I don't know about y'all but it is insulting to my intelligence when somebody promises a gram, to about 20 participants and then only gets them 10 mg but starts talkin about a one gram sample which is in their possession...

To clarify:

1) It is my understanding that YADAYADA does NOT in fact possess 1 GRAM of BPAP.

2) The subject of 1 GRAM of BPAP arose previously during discussions regarding having the product ANALYZED by a THIRD PARTY to confirm firstly that it is indeed BPAP and secondly to confirm that its PURITY meets the specification ordered; wherein, it is typical for labs to request a 1 GRAM QUANTITY for said analysis purposes.

3) Said THIRD PARTY ANALYSIS never happened; and hence said 1 GRAM QUANTITY was never provided... to anyone.

4) It is my understanding that YADAYADA was just as surprised as everyone else when THE SUPPLIER provided product that neither met the specified PURITY or QUANTITY ordered, included DMSO as a SOLVENT, and later apparently that it also comprises circa 50% IMPURITIES to boot.

Again, I reiterate THE TARGET of your anger, frustration and attacks should be THE SUPPLIER and not YADAYADA... please kindly point the gun at the correct target people

And anyone who has not already done so I strongly recommend that you check out the following two threads:

POLL - GROUP BUY RULES & PROTOCOL: Good idea? Or Bad Idea?

AND:

GROUP BUYS - RULES & PROTOCOL

Edited by ScienceGuy, 21 January 2014 - 08:04 AM.

[Lurkerbob]

Thanks science guy you are right. I did ask for one elected representative to be able to talk to the supplier. That was the whole point of the post. That was the conclusion. I would like to direct questions to the supplier. But do not want "limitless" angry posters doing it. That is why I am asking for one elected representative to get the contact details of the supplier.

Transparency and communication and complete details are also important. I would not be suspicious if yada did not have the attitude of entitlement that he has in his posts. Yes he got the money together and contacted the supplier but it was NOT HIS MONEY AND HE COULD NOT HAVE DONE IT WITHOUT THE PARTICIPANTS.

Edited by Lurkerbob, 21 January 2014 - 01:57 PM.

[ScienceGuy]

Thanks science guy you are right. I did ask for one elected representative to be able to talk to the supplier. That was the whole point of the post. That was the conclusion. I would like to direct questions to the supplier...

IMO given what has transpired here I feel it would be appropriate for the SUPPLIER DETAILS to be posted here in this thread, such that a properly informed decision can be made regards whether or not to use this particular SUPPLIER again in the future

[xks201]

LOL I'm pretty sure no one is going to vote to use this supplier in the future. I'm not sure if YADA has formerly denounced the supplier but if so that might be a start to getting the land of Springfield off your back..

[Werper]

To quote from Yada,

" Lets slow down here. I have had nothing; but, good experiences with this supplier and for this reason have left him anonymous."

So now there is no reason to leave the supplier anonymous, right?

[Reformed-Redan]

Whilst I can fully understand and appreciate everyone's frustration and anger at what has transpired here, can I please ask that everyone make a special effort to remain SOLUTION ORIENTATED and avoid conversation degrading into an AD HOMINEM mud-slinging contest

If anyone feels the need to point the finger of BLAME and/or vent their fully understandable anger and frustration IMO the more accurate target is in fact THE SUPPLIER and not the Group Buy ORGANIZER (i.e. YADAYADA), given that it is irrefutably THE SUPPLIER who is the root cause of all these product-related quality control issues, including: the inclusion of DMSO, a significant amount of OTHER IMPURITIES, and considerably less total QUANTITY of BPAP than was ordered. Please kindly note that whilst I am sure that everyone is in agreement that the organization of this particular Group Buy leaves some room for improvement, all of these primary issues have occurred as a consequence of THE SUPPLIER and not the Group Buy ORGANIZER (i.e. YADAYADA), who in some respects is just as much a victim of having been let down by THE SUPPLIER as everyone else.

What was yada saying about a one gram sample that nobody wanted to test? At the rate of 300 mics per ml that one gram sample would be 3 liters. Call me crazy but a lot of things this yada was talkin about sound like complete bs. I don't know about y'all but it is insulting to my intelligence when somebody promises a gram, to about 20 participants and then only gets them 10 mg but starts talkin about a one gram sample which is in their possession...

To clarify:

1) It is my understanding that YADAYADA does NOT in fact possess 1 GRAM of BPAP.

2) The subject of 1 GRAM of BPAP arose previously during discussions regarding having the product ANALYZED by a THIRD PARTY to confirm firstly that it is indeed BPAP and secondly to confirm that its PURITY meets the specification ordered; wherein, it is typical for labs to request a 1 GRAM QUANTITY for said analysis purposes.

3) Said THIRD PARTY ANALYSIS never happened; and hence said 1 GRAM QUANTITY was never provided... to anyone.

4) It is my understanding that YADAYADA was just as surprised as everyone else when THE SUPPLIER provided product that neither met the specified PURITY or QUANTITY ordered, included DMSO as a SOLVENT, and later apparently that it also comprises circa 50% IMPURITIES to boot.

Again, I reiterate THE TARGET of your anger, frustration and attacks should be THE SUPPLIER and not YADAYADA... please kindly point the gun at the correct target people

And anyone who has not already done so I strongly recommend that you check out the following two threads:

POLL - GROUP BUY RULES & PROTOCOL: Good idea? Or Bad Idea?

AND:

GROUP BUYS - RULES & PROTOCOL

A response to the misleading points:
1. I have 1 gram of BPAP ready to be tested by anyone who feels the need to.
2. Initially, ScienceGuy was to recieve a sample for testng. Something happened that ScienceGuy got an empty vial. Yes, this was a strange thing; but, the reaction that latter ensued IMO was unwarranted. ScienceGuy will obviously tell you otherwise from experience. Hail!
3.This is false. A 1 gram was offered to you multiple times after the first slip-up with the empty vial. I must have offered you a 1 gram sample five or more times; however, you did not want to test it anymore. Why? I don't know. After this to qualm concernes I offered 1g to anyone who wanted to do a lab analysis themselves. Nobody requested it. So, there is nobody to blame here since I took all measures to provide a lab analysis to anyone who wanted to. Again, nobody wanted to do the lab analysis themselves.
4. Interesting. You seem to know the purity now even though the product was never specified. I've clarified about the quantity and have already sent extra vials of BPAP to participants who have requested it. I'm not aware of 50% impurities. Again if you want to test BPAP, since you've taken this position of authority of managing every future way a group buy should be handled, then I offer it to you. If you do not want it you have no argument to throw at me unless you want to pander to me about your experiences with Chineese suppliers.

Thanks science guy you are right. I did ask for one elected representative to be able to talk to the supplier. That was the whole point of the post. That was the conclusion. I would like to direct questions to the supplier. But do not want "limitless" angry posters doing it. That is why I am asking for one elected representative to get the contact details of the supplier.

Transparency and communication and complete details are also important. I would not be suspicious if yada did not have the attitude of entitlement that he has in his posts. Yes he got the money together and contacted the supplier but it was NOT HIS MONEY AND HE COULD NOT HAVE DONE IT WITHOUT THE PARTICIPANTS.

First of all, I have no idea who you are or what your states buisness is here. You were never part of the group buy and as your nick states you seem to come from the shadows to... well I don't know what. So, what is your beef?

LOL I'm pretty sure no one is going to vote to use this supplier in the future. I'm not sure if YADA has formerly denounced the supplier but if so that might be a start to getting the land of Springfield off your back..

All the more reason why I will not expose the supplier to this crusade against him. If I recall correctly there is now only 1 person unhappy with the group buy, Werper (He still hasn't provided a specific reason why he is so unhappy, it may some related to some other matter). So, apart from the attacks from people who have nothing to do with the group buy I see no point in disclosing that information to the general public.

To quote from Yada,

" Lets slow down here. I have had nothing; but, good experiences with this supplier and for this reason have left him anonymous."

So now there is no reason to leave the supplier anonymous, right?

I stand by what I said. If you still have issues with the quantity of BPAP you have recieved fromt he supplier I can offer extra vials as I have already sent them to Q did it!.

[Reformed-Redan]

Thanks science guy you are right. I did ask for one elected representative to be able to talk to the supplier. That was the whole point of the post. That was the conclusion. I would like to direct questions to the supplier...

IMO given what has transpired here I feel it would be appropriate for the SUPPLIER DETAILS to be posted here in this thread, such that a properly informed decision can be made regards whether or not to use this particular SUPPLIER again in the future

Regarding this. I can ask my supplier to come here and post for you guys. However if some of you are schizofrenic and want to take BPAP or think I'm trying to poison you, that is beyond my control and the suppliers control. Again I'm offering you a gram of BPAP for testing, ScienceGuy. If you do not want to do this then you can send it to a 3'rd party lab of your choosing and have it tested there. The choice is yours. If you want to throw claims further I ask that you first do the 3'rd party lab analysis that has been so asked for and then we could continue from there. Other than that the claim of the product being dangerous or unhealthy are moot until a test is done. You were responsible for this ScienceGuy when we first started this group buy. I'd only be natural if you fulfilled your promise.

If ScienceGuy refuses to do the lab test for whatever reason I can also send this sample to anyone else who has access to appropriate lab equipment to test for purity and quality of said compound.

[sparkk51]

I am a pretty busy and very selfish person, so I ask anyone else to please please please take up the task of getting a 3rd party test underway.

[ScienceGuy]

I have 1 gram of BPAP...

Firstly, if this is the case then why THE HELL have you provided MINISCULE QUANTITIES to all the Group Buy PARTICIPANTS if you are sitting on a 1 GRAM quantity?!

It is your responsibility to ensure that all PARTICIPANTS are supplied with as close the QUANTITY ORDERED as possible!

Secondly, with the utmost respect, YADAYADA you are your own worst enemy!

Why on earth would you choose to launch yet another wholly unwarranted attack against me, in response to MY DEFENDING YOU?

Given your wildly erratic behaviour, which includes:

• Recently taking a substance overdose that required emergency services to be called to take you to hospital;
  
• Begging for money on this forum whilst simultaneously boasting about how much money you have made by investing in NEURALSTEM shares; and
  
• Asking me to help you whilst simultaneously attacking me and insulting me;

I strongly urge you to seek PSYCHOLOGICAL MEDICAL HELP as soon as possible.

As a consequence of your latest tantrum I regret to inform you that I cannot continue to be associated with you in any respect… Count me OUT of anything in which you are involved. PERIOD!

And you can file THIS:

ScienceGuy got an empty vial. Yes, this was a strange thing; but, the reaction that latter ensued IMO was unwarranted. ScienceGuy will obviously tell you otherwise from experience. Hail!
...Interesting. You seem to know the purity now even though the product was never specified... Again if you want to test BPAP, since you've taken this position of authority of managing every future way a group buy should be handled, then I offer it to you. If you do not want it you have no argument to throw at me unless you want to pander to me about your experiences with Chineese suppliers.

In the same box as ALL OF THIS:

I'd also like to point out that ScienceGuy and Googletarian have become quite comfortable with each other so it might be the case that he has material interested vested in having a monopoly on custom synthesis group buys...

Your avatar seems to serve you well.

…I would like to dispel this PREJUDICE that is being perpetuated by ScienceGuy...

ScienceGuy's reaction to state of affairs #1: He states his prejudice. Watch out for the CHINESE!
...Now, this sounds like the plot for a spy story. Are you paranoid against the CHINESE, ScienceGuy?
...I must point out that you might have the most stringent rigor when it comes to purity which seems to be to the point of being some sort of neurotic obsession.

I'm beginning to suspect that you did receive the product; but, were so unhappy with its purity that you made the false claim that you received nothing.

What purity will satisfy you Sir? I was told by the supplier that the product would be in free form at 95% and the HCL that everyone should get is 98%+. Let me just remind that the compound is active in the microscale, unlike the large doses of Piracetam people digest. I'm hopping your piracetam is 99.99999% pure since you're taking 5g+ doses every day!

Wow, now I'm going to get downbombed by the fanatical believers in ScienceGuy…

I TRULY believe that ScienceGuy, you, have a strong material interest vested in holding onto some sort of leverage or dominance in the nootropic area.

[xks201]

This is like that time when your beaten wife decides not to come home... *interlude with some Dawson's Creek intro music*.

Edited by xks201, 22 January 2014 - 02:34 AM.

[YOLF]

This situation should have been dealt with on a personal level... the whole thing has degraded and more feelings are being hurt.

[uralsky]

To do the ID testing now would be like a new group buy unless someone is going to pick the tab.
In addition, pure substance is needed for the testing. So far there is indication that it is not the case.
Regarding the testing: linear 1H NMR can cost $75 and 1 mg material, while 2D 1H NMR is $750 and 5 mg material. See for example here.
Simple LC-MS analysis can provide exact mass which is enough for some level of assurance.
This can be done for $225 (here). I am sure other places will do it for less. Again, pure substance is preferred.

I am glad to hear that YADA in fact has 1g of powder BPAP. I wonder what color is it? If it is white than all the impurities I saw came from DMSO. If the powder is brown I would suggest send it back to the manufacturer for additional purification. There is no point to offer people more of DMSO staff.

Lurkerbob. You are absolutely right in questioning the arrangement when a $20000 worth of BPAP in powder form is just sitting there while every actual participant is given 1/100th of that in DMSO. It is beyond my understanding why no one else is seeing that it does not make sense. There must be explanation.
Perhaps all the participants dont want to be called by names?
I guess "civil communication" should be included in the Group buy Guidance list.

Edited by uralsky, 22 January 2014 - 02:57 AM.

[xks201]

If Yada got a gram of pure BPAP without DMSO you all got screwed because I paid $250 for 8mg of BPAP powder I mixed with water. He could theoretically resell his gram of BPAP for lets see...1000mg/8mg=125 125x250=$31,250. lol There's yada's profit if he flips it. It makes no sense to me that you all got DMSO adultered stuff and he got powder. What am I missing? It makes me question what the real cost of this group buy was if he ended up with a gram. I'm all for not burning the messenger but there was some serious dishonesty going on here.

I'm just going to make a guess here, but by putting it with DMSO and claiming that the powder form could not mix with water (the powder form I got from a separate supplier was meant to mix with water and stay like that fine), he could essentially hang on to his extra gram of powder and claim that it was essentially useless because no one else wanted it if they had to mix it in with more nasty DMSO. Therefore it looked as if the batch was given to him as a nasty failed batch of powder that no one wants when in reality he could resell it. And he probably doesn't want to give out the manufacturers name because the manufacturer would probably clarify that it didn't need to be mixed with DMSO and that yada has pure powder. That's a leap but with all of this BS it's a leap I'll take.

Just a guess. Maybe I'm missing something. lol

All of this could have been avoided by not ending up with an extra gram of powder I suppose. lol

Edited by xks201, 22 January 2014 - 03:09 AM.

[sparkk51]

I think Yadayada can clear his name in this 1g dilemma by either sending it out to participants or by having it tested by a 3rd party lab. If he holds on to it, he could be identified as a scammer.

[golden1]

http://www.longecity...post__p__634339
^how did a 1 gram sample exist before the supplier improved the yields? just curious..?

[chemicalambrosia]

To do the ID testing now would be like a new group buy unless someone is going to pick the tab.
In addition, pure substance is needed for the testing. So far there is indication that it is not the case.
Regarding the testing: linear 1H NMR can cost $75 and 1 mg material, while 2D 1H NMR is $750 and 5 mg material. See for example here.
Simple LC-MS analysis can provide exact mass which is enough for some level of assurance.
This can be done for $225 (here). I am sure other places will do it for less. Again, pure substance is preferred.

I am glad to hear that YADA in fact has 1g of powder BPAP. I wonder what color is it? If it is white than all the impurities I saw came from DMSO. If the powder is brown I would suggest send it back to the manufacturer for additional purification. There is no point to offer people more of DMSO staff.

Lurkerbob. You are absolutely right in questioning the arrangement when a $20000 worth of BPAP in powder form is just sitting there while every actual participant is given 1/100th of that in DMSO. It is beyond my understanding why no one else is seeing that it does not make sense. There must be explanation.
Perhaps all the participants dont want to be called by names?
I guess "civil communication" should be included in the Group buy Guidance list.

If he sent you the BPAP gram, or a partial quantity of it, would you send it in for testing? I assume others would contribute some funds. I would pay an equal share if a few other people are willing to contribute... assuming one of the cheaper methods is used.

Some good can come from this cluster fuck if we can confirm the bpap through testing. Then we can at least have verified reports on this substance. I don't know about others here, but if I test this and it doesn't do a damn thing for me(I've only tried it once so far), then I'm not going to waste time typing and getting stressed over the quantity of a substance that isn't going to do me or anyone else any good. Certainly I'm less than happy, since I originally went in thinking that with a gram and such a low active dose it would be possible to sell the excess and recoup costs if reports on it were good. I also thought it would potentially last a very long time(most things last 5+ years stored properly). It doesn't look like those things are going to happen... but they are pretty moot if bpap isn't effective.

[uralsky]

I could try if other participants agree.
I am not a chemist though. I would go for LC-MS. 1 mg of material would be more than enough.
Again, if the powder is not white I would not bother.

[Reformed-Redan]

I have no idea what's going on here. I'm still offering a 1g sample to anyone who wants to lab test it. Clearly ScienceGuy does not want to. And, no I don't have 1g of BPAP stored away under my bed.

I could try if other participants agree.
I am not a chemist though. I would go for LC-MS. 1 mg of material would be more than enough.
Again, if the powder is not white I would not bother.

Great. We have a winner! How much do you want me to send to you and in what form.

This is 1g being offered by the supplier, gratis. Not MY 1g. I have no use for 1g of BPAP.

[ScienceGuy]

The reason why nobody got 1g was because the yields were poor and making BPAP was much harder than anticipated.

…And yet YADAYADA has confirmed himself that THE SUPPLIER is readily able to provide a 1 GRAM QUANTITY of BPAP!

Personally, my B.S. DETECTOR is going off!

Furthermore, it is abundantly clear that neither YADAYADA nor his SUPPLIER knows what they are doing… wherein THIS post should have been wholly unnecessary, as the SUPPLIER should already know the information and in fact should have done this:

Guys I'm attaching a HNMR of DMSO BPAP. As you may guess the supplier is still trying to stabalize the BPAP into HCL or Citrate form.

Free chemistry lesson for your Chinese chemists:

Furan derivatives are highly susceptible to acidic hydrolysis, when some moisture gets to BPAP HCl you will get acidic environment on crystal/powder surface and this starts degradation by ring opening and this starts condensations which are apparent on 1H NMR. Aromatic protons between 6,5 and 8 ppm should give solid 2:2:1 integration, but instead it shows that there is some impurity hidden inside middle multiplet. But its normal that you don't get perfect integration for NH₂⁺ which you see as doublet above 9 ppm.

There is no way they will get stable BPAP HCl. Even citric acid can be too strong.

Solution:
Tell them to try preparing carbonate salt, or better benzoate - first by azeotropic removal of water in toluene or 1,2-dichloroetane solution of BPAP base, when water stops collecting there should be added (still hot solution) 1,05 equivalent of benzoic acid in dry solvent, stirring for some time and slow cooling which should start crystallization.

Hope that helps.

Furthermore, I also stand corrected regards LIABILITY, in that having re-read through this thread it has become clear that it was not in fact the SUPPLIER who is to blame, but it is indeed YADAYADA, who made the decision to UNNECESSARILY go with adding the NEUROTOXIC DMSO to yield a LIQUID as opposed to POWDER product:

The supplier indicated that crystilization of BPAP… can be done and most likely will be done; but, I opted for liquid
form.

Therefore, seemingly I was incorrect in previously defending YADAYADA, as he clearly is very much to blame after all.