25 replies to this topic

[Ubiyca]

Anyone ever tried this particular brand of Ashwagandha? (KSM-66)

I'm thinking of trying it, the Swanson brand one.


Just not sure if I should buy it over the Himalaya USA one, which seems to have great reviews not only on this forum, but also amazon, etc.

I'm not too interested in using the Sensoril brands.


Any feedback/input is appreciated.


Thanks

[Healthyfreek]

Oh yes. I have tried KSM-66 ashwagandha from a company called Nutrigold. I was not aware that even Swanson sells KSM-66. I have read quite a lot about ashwagandha and find it truly fabulous.

I have been taking ashwagandha and bacopa for the last one year. Just love the Nutrigold KSM-66 ashwagandha. If you closely look at Himalaya USA's ashwagandha, it contains only 2.96 mg total withanolides, whereas Nutrigold guarantees a minimum of 15 mg withanolides. I also glanced through the official website of KSM-66. Though a lot of it has technical stuff, but the information was quite useful. I think the most unique thing about KSM-66 that I found was that it was a root extract and something called "full-spectrum". I guess full spectrum means that it resembles the raw root powder in composition but has the highest potency.

The website mentions and I have also read in a lot of places that ashwagandha is supposed to be a root extract and not leaf. Sensoril brand is a root and leaf extract, and I therefore did not dare to even touch it, since it is a complete departure from traditional medicine practice.

I would strongly recommend that you try KSM-66 because it also has a lot of clinical studies to back up its claims.

[Jeoshua]

Always look into what chemicals you are interested in when using herbs. What fraction of the plant are they in? What part of the plant, as in leaves, roots, etc? Then stay away from raw powders, essential oils, and find a good extract that focuses on that fraction of it and has a high tested percentage by weight of at least the class of chemicals you are interested in. It seems like that is what you have done here, and KSM-66 is a much more potent extract of what you're likely looking for in Ashwaganda.

[Ubiyca]

Oh yes. I have tried KSM-66 ashwagandha from a company called Nutrigold. I was not aware that even Swanson sells KSM-66. I have read quite a lot about ashwagandha and find it truly fabulous.

I have been taking ashwagandha and bacopa for the last one year. Just love the Nutrigold KSM-66 ashwagandha. If you closely look at Himalaya USA's ashwagandha, it contains only 2.96 mg total withanolides, whereas Nutrigold guarantees a minimum of 15 mg withanolides. I also glanced through the official website of KSM-66. Though a lot of it has technical stuff, but the information was quite useful. I think the most unique thing about KSM-66 that I found was that it was a root extract and something called "full-spectrum". I guess full spectrum means that it resembles the raw root powder in composition but has the highest potency.

The website mentions and I have also read in a lot of places that ashwagandha is supposed to be a root extract and not leaf. Sensoril brand is a root and leaf extract, and I therefore did not dare to even touch it, since it is a complete departure from traditional medicine practice.

I would strongly recommend that you try KSM-66 because it also has a lot of clinical studies to back up its claims.

Thank you for your post.

What you mention regarding the root and leaves is something I've researched as well, which made me come down to a choice of either KSM-66 or the Himalaya brand. (the Himalaya is all root as well).

I did however go with the KSM-66 product from swanson. In the end, it's less expensive, and.. more potent, with great reviews (although both have great reviews).

[Healthyfreek]

I would recommend that you take 2 capsules everyday. One in the morning and one in the evening to experience the best effects. All the best.

[joelcairo]

Purely in terms of the withanolides content, it appears that Swanson's KSM-66 product is a good choice and is organic, but the NOW product would work out to be slightly cheaper at the current price Swanson is selling it for.

Also the KSM-66 is twice as concentrated with withanolides, so in a sense you get half of everything else in the Ashwagandha root. Not really sure if that is a drawback or a selling point.

[MiddleAged49]

Thanks for the info in this thread, I've just ordered the Swanson brand KSM-66 and the Himalaya one as well. I'm in the UK, so they will take a week or two to arrive from the US, but I will report back on the effects of both after eating them.
The Swanson brand is $6.99 on their website at the moment, even with $15 postage to the UK that still works out as good value (supplements can be expensive in the UK).
Sensoril seemingly had no effect at all on me - will finish off the tub anyway, as they probably have some sort of benefit.

[joelcairo]

Just stumbled upon this infrmation while looking for something else... The KSM-66 formulation contains negligible quantities of withaferin A, which the company says is "recognized as a cytotoxic agent". This is partly true, but withaferin A is also the principal element considered to be responsible for Ashwagandha's remarkable anticancer effects.

Offhand I couldn't say if withaferin A is significantly related to ashwagandha's other immune-potentiating and adaptogenic effects.

[Jeoshua]

Chemicals which are good at killing cancer are usually good at stopping the division and proliferation, possibly causing apoptosis, of normal cells, too. Unless you actually have cancer, and are trying to perform a kind of chemotherapy, you shouldn't be looking for cancer killing properties in plants, but cancer prevention.

[Healthyfreek]

Chemicals which are good at killing cancer are usually good at stopping the division and proliferation, possibly causing apoptosis, of normal cells, too. Unless you actually have cancer, and are trying to perform a kind of chemotherapy, you shouldn't be looking for cancer killing properties in plants, but cancer prevention.

@Jeoshua: Very well explained. Even I used to wonder about negligible quantities of Withaferin A, which is supposed to be a cyto-toxic withanolide. Your explanation made it clear. I have found that there are scores of studies published on withaferin A for anti-cancer properties. The good withanolides that I found attributing adaptogenic properties in ashwagandha are Withanolide A and Withanoside IV. But I also believe that it is not just these individual compounds, but the entire cast/compounds in any botanical that works for the efficacy. They call it "herb intelligence". May be thats the reason I find KSM-66 effective compared to few others that I have tried.

[Jeoshua]

So-called active substances in herbal remedies are, indeed, supported by a whole host of other chemicals, many of which are related to the metabolism of the active substance. A good example of this would be Ascorbic Acid, aka Vitamin C. You can get a supplement which gives you pure Ascorbic Acid, which is, in fact, Vitamin C. But if you were to simply eat an orange, you would get Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, and a whole host of Bioflavinoids that enhance it's effects. You're not getting as much Ascorbic Acid, but you're getting more of what your body needs, in relation to it.

Or what about Luteolin? When used in Artichoke extract, it is supported by many other similar flavonoids, and it's effects are noticeable seemingly at 5-10mg. But when taken in isolation, you need like 50mg to have the same effect.

And as far as the anti-cancer properties of any substance, those are usually tested on HEK cells or some other excised tumor. They're barely human cells, mutated and carcinogenic, these tests are done in-vitro, and rarely are these tests done with an active control to test the substances effects on normal cells. So take that stuff with a grain of salt unless you're trying to treat an exposed, external tumor, with a direct injection or topical treatment or something.

Edited by Jeoshua, 22 January 2014 - 04:56 PM.

[joelcairo]

There is quite a significant body of work investigating Ashwagandha's anticancer effects, in vitro and also in vivo. Also showing that it and withaferin A are at least preferentially toxic to cancer cells. What I'm suggesting is that maybe it's better to take the complete extract, rather than one with withaferin A removed - and perhaps other compounds as well depending on what kind of process they are using.

That would be my personal choice, as one of my main interests is cancer protection, but depending on their goals others may do things differently.

Edited by joelcairo, 22 January 2014 - 08:08 PM.

[Healthyfreek]

There is quite a significant body of work investigating Ashwagandha's anticancer effects, in vitro and also in vivo. Also showing that it and withaferin A are at least preferentially toxic to cancer cells. What I'm suggesting is that maybe it's better to take the complete extract, rather than one with withaferin A removed - and perhaps other compounds as well depending on what kind of process they are using.

That would be my personal choice, as one of my main interests is cancer protection, but depending on their goals others may do things differently.

@joelcairo: Since your goal is cancer protection, I believe that you certainly should take an extract which does not contain Withferin A at all. As mentioned by Jeoshua, Chemicals which are good at killing cancer are usually good at stopping the division and proliferation, possibly causing apoptosis, of normal cells, too. Therefore, this would result in the fall of normal immunity levels and energy as well. I think an extract like KSM-66 would not be good for people suffering with cancer and want some help in stopping the recurrence etc, but an extract like KSM-66 would be good for people who want to use it for anti-stress, enhanced memory, cognition, immunity, energy, strength, sexual function etc.

[Strelok]

Interesting thread. I hadn't even heard of KSM-66. I just finished a bottle of Jarrrow's Sensoril ashwagandha, and will get a bottle of KSM-66 next time I order supplement

[Healthyfreek]

Interesting thread. I hadn't even heard of KSM-66. I just finished a bottle of Jarrrow's Sensoril ashwagandha, and will get a bottle of KSM-66 next time I order supplement

@Strelok: I think KSM-66 is quite new to the market. I have tried sensoril long time back, and never found it very effective. Moreover, when I learnt that leaf extract of ashwagandha is not recommended and ashwagandha is supposed to be root entity, I stopped consuming sensoril. I would never like to experiment something which the nature never professed. All the best!

[joelcairo]

@joelcairo: Since your goal is cancer protection, I believe that you certainly should take an extract which does not contain Withferin A at all. As mentioned by Jeoshua, Chemicals which are good at killing cancer are usually good at stopping the division and proliferation, possibly causing apoptosis, of normal cells, too. Therefore, this would result in the fall of normal immunity levels and energy as well....

That's not really the way phytonutrients fight cancer. It's not like chemotherapy lite, where toxicity is caused by overwhelming the cell's defenses. Phytonutrients such as those in ashwagandha work by interfering with abnormal, dysregulated, cancer-promoting pathways and promoting normal function. Therefore they can often fight cancer while making normal cells healthier at the same time.

Also, ashwagandha and withaferin A, at least in reasonable doses, both improve immune surveillance, they don't interfere with it.In addition to anticancer, they also have antiviral and antibacterial effects.

Anyway I am now wondering... I saw that KSM-66 bills itself as a "full-spectrum" extract of ashwagandha root. Since withaferin A is indeed found in the root, do you know if (a) they actively remove the withaferin A or use a process that doesn't preserve it, or (b) there is indeed a proportional amount of withaferin A in KSM-66, but it's just not as high as other extracts? It seems to me this would be an important difference.

Edited by joelcairo, 24 January 2014 - 09:36 PM.

[Healthyfreek]

@joelcairo: Since your goal is cancer protection, I believe that you certainly should take an extract which does not contain Withferin A at all. As mentioned by Jeoshua, Chemicals which are good at killing cancer are usually good at stopping the division and proliferation, possibly causing apoptosis, of normal cells, too. Therefore, this would result in the fall of normal immunity levels and energy as well....

That's not really the way phytonutrients fight cancer. It's not like chemotherapy lite, where toxicity is caused by overwhelming the cell's defenses. Phytonutrients such as those in ashwagandha work by interfering with abnormal, dysregulated, cancer-promoting pathways and promoting normal function. Therefore they can often fight cancer while making normal cells healthier at the same time.

Also, ashwagandha and withaferin A, at least in reasonable doses, both improve immune surveillance, they don't interfere with it.In addition to anticancer, they also have antiviral and antibacterial effects.

Anyway I am now wondering... I saw that KSM-66 bills itself as a "full-spectrum" extract of ashwagandha root. Since withaferin A is indeed found in the root, do you know if (a) they actively remove the withaferin A or use a process that doesn't preserve it, or (b) there is indeed a proportional amount of withaferin A in KSM-66, but it's just not as high as other extracts? It seems to me this would be an important difference.

I tried finding out about withaferin A. It is majorly present in the leaves and in very minute quantities in roots. One of the labels of KSM-66 reads less than 0.1% which is almost nil. I too wonder whether they remove it using their process. There are hundreds of studies published on withaferin A for anti-cancer properties.

[Jeoshua]

Reguardless of the mechanism of Withaferin A's functioning, it is something unrelated to the effects of Ashwagandha that are seemingly beneficial for people otherwise clear of cancer. It doesn't have and preventative properties, only some interference with functions that are overexpressed with Cancer cells but are nonetheless normal parts of the functioning of normal cells. For that reason, and because the centuries of experiential human data say "Roots good, Leaves bad", I will be avoiding any leaf extracts.

I didn't mean to imply that KSM-66, which bills itself as a "Full Spectrum" extract, is bad, by the way. There were more than a few brands that I came across that said they were Full Spectrum Ashwagandha, and they were basically Root and Leaf powder, not even an extract. Hating on the brand, not the KSM.

And I know I may be stepping in to a whole world of anger by saying this, but doesn't anyone else feel that the whole "Adaptogen" thing is a little bit beyond the pale? It's a term that's given to plants from a specific class of Ayurvedic plants, but it isn't an actual function. It's not like saying "stimulant" or "vitamin", in that those words actually mean something towards how the substance works. "Adaptogen" means "well Ayurveda says it's good for health so it's an Adaptogen". I prefer to categorize and understand substances in the Western mindset, what with specific effects, receptors, modulations, biochemical facts, and studies. And the studies say that Ashwagandha lowers circulating Cortisols. It doesn't say it "balances your chi" or any of that kind of thing. No studies have shown a realignment of meridians, or increased homeostatis, or balancing of immune system functioning, or any of that.

Show me some studies that show that Withaferin A affects cancer cells IN-VIVO, and spares normal, healthy cells, and I will recant everything I just said. Until then, I consider leaf extracts and Withaferin A useless for any purposes.

[joelcairo]

Show me some studies that show that Withaferin A affects cancer cells IN-VIVO, and spares normal, healthy cells, and I will recant everything I just said. Until then, I consider leaf extracts and Withaferin A useless for any purposes.

First of all, it's impossible to show that in an in vivo study. At best you can show that the net effect is positive. And while there seems to be no reason to believe withaferin A is in any way harmful in moderate doses, nobody has claimed that there are no possible negative effects at very high levels.

Anyway here are some IN-VIVO studies showing that it has powerful cancer-fighting ability. It's not the only substance in ashwagandha with beneficial effects. It's perhaps not even the most powerful, although it is certainly the most comprehensively studied. The only point I'm making is that, as a component of the ashwagandha plant it's not necessarily to be avoided.

P.S. Despite "roots good, leaves bad" (green tea anyone?), it is still an open question whether withaferin A is found in the root extract or not. So far I have found one study that did an analysis showing that root extract levels were undetectable, and another showing that root extract levels were quite high.

----------

Tumor Size Reduction With Withaferin A In A Murine Model Of Uveal Melanoma
http://www.abstracts...B-6A8D7B26EDB3}
"Control tumors showed a 60% increase in largest diameter over a 14-day treatment period. Treatment groups showed a 64% and 50% decrease"

Natural withanolide Withaferin A induces apoptosis in Uveal Melanoma cells by suppression of Akt and c-MET activation
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22477711
"In vivo studies using WA reduced tumor growth in 100% of animals (p = 0.015)."

Radiosensitization of a mouse melanoma by Withaferin A: in vivo studies.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11272405
[Treatment of tumours with withaferin A produced a dose dependent increase in growth delay and volume doubling time. Injection of withaferin A, followed by local gamma irradiation, significantly enhanced the tumour response. No systemic or local adverse reactions were noted in these groups.]

Enhancement of the Response of B16F1 Melanoma to Fractionated Radiotherapy and Prolongation of Survival by Withaferin A and/or Hyperthermia
http://ict.sagepub.c...t/9/4/370.short
"Withaferin A is a better radiosensitizer than hyperthermia in fractionated regimen and the response of radioresistant tumors like melanoma can be significantly enhanced by combining nontoxic doses of Withaferin A with fractionated radiotherapy, with or without hyperthermia, allowing decrease in radiation dose."

Withaferin A Inhibits the Proteasome Activity in Mesothelioma In Vitro and In Vivo
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../?report=reader
"Together our in vitro and in vivo studies suggest that WA suppresses Malignant Pleural Mesothelioma growth by targeting multiple pathways that include blockage of proteasome activity and stimulation of apoptosis, and thus holds promise as an anti-MPM agent."

Metabolic Alterations in Mammary Cancer Prevention by Withaferin A in a Clinically Relevant Mouse Model
http://jnci.oxfordjo...5/15/1111.short
"Withaferin A administration resulted in a statistically significant decrease in macroscopic mammary tumor size, microscopic mammary tumor area, and the incidence of pulmonary metastasis. For example, the mean area of invasive cancer was lower by 95.14% in the Withaferin A treatment group compared with the control group."

Myeloid-derived suppressor cell [MDSC] function is reduced by Withaferin A, a potent and abundant component of Withania somnifera root extract
http://link.springer...3-1470-2#page-1
"Thus, adjunctive treatment with Withaferin A reduced myeloid cell-mediated immune suppression, polarized immunity toward a tumor-rejecting type 1 phenotype, and may facilitate the development of anti-tumor immunity."

Edited by joelcairo, 25 January 2014 - 07:43 PM.

[Jeoshua]

Withaferin A is found in the root portion, but in a very reduced amount. In other words, while Withaferin A is the primary withanolide found in the leaves, it is hard to even detect in the roots.

And I was not meaning all roots are good and all leaves are bad, always. Let's leave the hyperbole outside, for now.

[Belair123]

I have been using this brand KSM-66 for last 6 months, and it is a great product. I was taking this in a product called Adaptra by Europharma, which also contains Rhodiola besides ashwaganda. I discovered recently that it is also sold by swanson, and just ordered a bottle a few days ago. I feel very relaxed and less stressed everyday, and sound sleep at night. I strongly recommend this product of ashwaganda.

[HeyItsMeLC]

Ashwagandha is OK to take with Alcohol, right?

Edited by HeyItsMeLC, 23 February 2014 - 02:23 PM.

[Jeoshua]

Ashwagandha is OK to take with Alcohol, right?

No, it's not okay. There have been many reports of adverse side effects of mixing them. Alcohol is never okay in conjunction with medications.

[HeyItsMeLC]

Ashwagandha is OK to take with Alcohol, right?

No, it's not okay. There have been many reports of adverse side effects of mixing them. Alcohol is never okay in conjunction with medications.

Do you have backup for that?

This page seems to indicate the contrary..
http://www.whatareno...st/ashwagandha/

"It is perfectly safe to drink alcohol while taking Ashwagandha. In fact research has shown that it may be a good idea to take Ashwagandha if you happen to be a heavy drinker, as it helps repair damaged dendrites."

[MiddleAged49]

I've been trying Swanson's KSM-66 Ashwagandha for a few weeks now. I've been mostly interested in its effects on aiding sleep, as getting to sleep quickly has always been a problem.

For me, the effect is subtle, but I feel I can switch off at night easier when I take it before bed - it reduces 'mind chatter' (I read that somewhere, but it's a good description of what it does). It makes it easier to blank your mind and think of nothing. I'm rarely tired enough to go to sleep straight away, it always takes me at least 45 minutes to drift off, various things run through my head, not unpleasant things, just unnecessary clutter. I'm not sure KSM-66 is actually getting me to sleep any quicker, but I feel more ready to fall asleep when I lie down. I haven't noticed any effect when taking it during the day, but then I haven't found myself in any stressful situations over the last few weeks, so can't really judge it's effectiveness for 'fight or flight' or other stressful situations.
I do have some job interviews coming up next week though, it will probably come in handy for those.

Sensoril did nothing for me, during the day or at night.

The Swanson bottle will be done in a couple of weeks and then I'll try the Himalaya brand Ashwagandha, which has less of a concentration of Withanolides per pill but has good reviews nevertheless.

[Brian_K]

I've tried at least 5 different ashwagandha supplements.  My personal favorite, by far, is KSM-66.  

 

Ashwagandha is used for many different things, so I do think it matters what you are taking it for.  I take it for reducing anxiety and improving my workouts.  KSM-66 is far better for me than Sensoril as far as reducing anxiety.  Some people like Sensoril for other reasons, but I think KSM-66 is far better for putting me in a relaxed and anxiety free state.  It also helps a lot with my workouts.  It increases strength, reduces recovery time, and makes me a lot leaner.  They have a lot of studies backing this up as well.  But to me, I'm much more interested in how it works on me personally, and this stuff works great.  Here is some good comprehensive info on KSM-66.

 

Here is an faq about Sensoril if you are interested as well.  

 

As far as the more "generic" ashwagandha supplements go, I find they are much less effective than either of these 2.  They do work, especially if you get over 4% withanolides, but the effects aren't as strong or as pure, especially compared with KSM-66.  That's been my experience.