31 replies to this topic

[Shepard]

What is the best form of exercise that everyone has found for themselves?

For me, I can't be in a gym. My exercise comes in the form of competition racquetball, kayaking, camping, cross-country running, and yard work (using a reel lawnmower especially). I also do tai chi and hatha yoga a few nights a week.

Out of these, I've found racquetball to probably be the best overall exercise. My sprints, reaction time, and eye-hand coordination have improved greatly since I began playing a couple of years ago. It is also the best cardiovascular exercise among these. The best for muscle endurance, strength, and definition would have to be kayaking.

Edited by shepard, 23 June 2005 - 10:59 PM.

[DukeNukem]

Martial arts is the only activity that covers ALL of the bases, including the under-appreciated muscle flexibility via stretching. It also covers reaction speed improvement, agility, balance, muscle toning, fat-burning, cardio/endurance, and hand-eye coordination. As a bonus, you learn a cool skill that might save your life.

[mnosal]

I use boxing(heavy bag and speed bag drills) for my cardio. I have hours of lower body endurance from years of running in boots(Army), but 20mins of continuous boxing drill has me wheezing on the floor I don't spar anymore as I see the dangers of head trauma being too great( hard to get that through to me when I was younger)

I also do a fullbody compound weight regimen every 3 days(1 on 2 off) consisting of:
Trap Bar Deadlifts(combines Squats & Deads)
Bench Press
Chin-ups
Calf work

or

Standing Push Press
Barbell Rows
Dips
Curls

[pSimonKey]

Qi Gung, Yoga and CV (cycling, running, rowing, skipping) in the morning. Weight training and stretching every other evening, Martial Arts (Muay Thai is my fav)/ Heavy bag work/Pad work and stretching in between and a day of rest a la God

[DukeNukem]

Yeah, martial arts is the best all-around fitness activity (I believe), but you need to supplement it with resistance training, unquestionably. I lift weights four times a week. At 5'7", I can squat 340 lbs x 6 reps, and flat bench 240 x 6. And at 170 lbs, I can do 13 chin-ups. Bodyfat is 9%.

All of my martial arts teachers are 20-30 pounds overweight. Cardio workouts just do not burn the fat like strength training, especially high-intensity strength training, the kind pioneered by Arthur Jones in the early 70's, training to failure.

[eternaltraveler]

Martial arts is the only activity that covers ALL of the bases, including the under-appreciated muscle flexibility via stretching.  It also covers reaction speed improvement, agility, balance, muscle toning, fat-burning, cardio/endurance, and hand-eye coordination.  As a bonus, you learn a cool skill that might save your life.

It has saved my life.

My training regimen until the last month when i had to cut back in a big way for time constraints was:

Martial arts practice on my own for 6 hours/week

Swim 1-2 miles 3 times/week

Run 50-90 minutes (varying intensity depending on the day) 3-5 times/week

Bike 2 hours (varying intensity depending on the day) 3-5 times/week

weight train 2.25 hours/week (three 45 min sessions)

all of this was done at an altitude of approx 10,000 feet.

Current academic and work related constraints do now allow for this level of training.

I should also note that I don't believe the above level of training is good for you in the long run. Probably over-doing it a bit. But I was training for an Ironman triathlon, which I decided I can't do this year because i think getting As in organic and biochem, and scoring well on the MCAT are more important.

[eternaltraveler]

Cardio workouts just do not burn the fat like strength training, especially high-intensity strength training, the kind pioneered by Arthur Jones in the early 70's, training to failure.

Stregth training builds muslce, and muscle burns calories 24 hours a day, 365 days a year just in order to maintian it's existance.

My strength training is a modified HIT routine.

[lemon]

...the kind you stick with.

[DukeNukem]

Elrond,

Strength training has many proven advantages of cardio/aerobic training. The weight loss aspect is huge. Aerobics elevates your metabolism for about two hours post workout, keeping you in a higher fat-burning zone. But strength training elevates your metabolism for 24-36 hours. It also causes the production of hormones that aid in fat burning. And, as you said, muscle itself is the primary metabolic engine of your body, and the more muscle you have, the more fat burning ability you have.

Repetitive motion endurance activities actually burn away muscle, at the rate of one gram per five minutes, beginning after the first 20 minutes of aerobic level activity. I avoid these activities like the plague, such as running and bike riding. I do not do any aerobic activity, except for martial arts, which is very mild, except for short bursts of sparring that only last a few minutes (thus do not cross that catabolic 20 minute threshold).

It's funny, but in gyms you usually see the overweight people burning away more of their precious muscle mass on the treadmills, while the lean people are building muscle on the weights side of the gym.

Long distance runners are lean, because they burn away their muscle. Sprinters are more like body builders, because they do not run long, and they do a lot of strength building. They understand that extended aerobics burns away muscle, and is counter-productive. I'd much rather look like a sprinter than a long distance runner. The sprinter is a far better, more rounded and capable athlete.

Finally, repetitive high-duration aerobic style motions are very bad for joints. Meanwhile, resistance training builds the strength of joints.

Actually, there's a lot more I could say to compare aerobics versus resistance training, such as the famous comparative test that the military did in the 70's, resulting in them discovering that the strength training-only group gained more endurance capacity than the aerobic-only group. But, I've rambled quite enough.

Scott

[Pablo M]

The best for muscle endurance, strength, and definition would have to be kayaking.

Good call. Kayaking is awesome. I go as often as I can, which is pretty often as I live 2 blocks from the ocean. Aside from that I like really long bike rides, on a mountain bike to make it that more difficult.

Elrond, what martial arts are you training? I've studied BJJ, am currently taking aikido and training with a tactical folder (knife).

[DukeNukem]

Prometheus, triathletes are of course great athletes, but it's not necessarily a long-term healthy activity. From a pure longevity point of view, I would not be a triathlete due to the wear and tear on the body, and the lack of muscle mass. Most boxers lift weights to build muscle. They also do a ton of cardio, negating a lot of their weight lifting efforts. Again, it's not necessarily the best fitness strategy purely from a longevity viewpoint.

If you're going to do aerobics strictly for longevity purposes, here's the key: Variable intensity (interval training), and do not exceed 20 minutes total per session, with at least two hours between sessions. (BTW, walking is something else entirely, and you can walk all you want, even at a fairly rapid pace.)

As for muscle building, you do not need to look like a body builder. You want to achieve a level of strength whereby you can squat 1.5 times your body weight, flat bench press your body weight, and do 7 quality chin-ups. If you can pass this 3-pronged test, your muscle capacity is in perfect condition from a longevity standpoint. I currently exceeded this test by 50%, and still no one would ever mistake me for a body builder, though I look very fit.

[eternaltraveler]

Elrond, what martial arts are you training? I've studied BJJ, am currently taking aikido and training with a tactical folder (knife).

Well, I've studied lots of martial arts. I could write out a long list of martial arts i've dedicated at least 6 months too.

So what I train in is really just what works best for me utilizing asspects from many different styles. I mostly do shaolin Gong fu forms though, they are fun. And the best instructor I've ever had was the warrior monk I studied under at the shaolin temple so I probably lean a little bit that way these days even though it came later in my martial arts career.

I can't find a martial arts school in the area I live now that is any good for me, though I do get together with some of the better fighters I know around the area to sparr sometimes.

All that is currently on the back burner currently as i'm focusing on academia at the moment.

[eternaltraveler]

If you're going to do aerobics strictly for longevity purposes, here's the key: Variable intensity (interval training), and do not exceed 20 minutes total per session, with at least two hours between sessions

I absolutely agree. Excessive aerobics is not a good thing in the long term.

[Shepard]

Has anyone else read "Ultramarathon Man" about Dean Karnazes? He has accomplished some extraordinary aerobic/physical/mental feats. It will be very interesting to see what shape his body is in in the next 10-15 years.

[quadclops]

I am planning on ordering this book soon.

I'll let you know what results I get. It certainly looks promising.

[DukeNukem]

Elrond, sounds like you've got a lot of martial arts experience. I've got a black belt in two styles, plus I've studied several other styles, both under instructors and on my own. I have a personal library of over 100 Jeet Kune Do (Bruce Lee's system) video tapes, plus 100 more tapes on various other styles, and over 100 books. Jeet Kune Do is the style that has taught me the most, as it's purity, simplicity, and efficiency make it the ultimate scientific street fighting method. It has numerous ingenious techniques and tactics that I've never seen associated with any other style, and when I blend these techniques into my own style against the top students in my school (including a 3rd degree ranked #1 in our entire association of 800+ schools last year), I regularly beat them, even though they're 20 years younger and flexible like Gumby. Every other style I've studied that's not JKD, is mired in traditional beliefs and techniques that simply do not have real world applicability, which is why you basically never see them used in K1 or other anything-goes martial arts contests. I still happily learn these sorts of techniques from my instructors, but secretly knowing they're often worthless -- and when I spar, I revert to JKD every time.

[John Doe]

Moderate strength training combined with power-walking.

Or: whatever you stick with.

[Pablo M]

I am planning on ordering this book soon.

Don't bother. Just google "hindu pushups." You'll find sites that tell you how to do the pushups, squats and neck bridges, which are the 3 components of Matt Furey's "system." If you do them consistently you will get good results.

[theprimemover]

To quote from a book on jumping rope (which is another good workout), the best form of exercise is the one you'll actually do.

[JonesGuy]

I quite disagree that for an immortalist, martial arts are good choice. I don't know about you, but the number of instructors I've seen with ruined joints or limps is just too high to believe that a lot of martial arts are good for long-term health. I agree however, that as a skill, it can be very valuable, and a good marital art gives a host of benefits with regards to hand-eye, endurance, flexibility, etc.

And in regards to putting on muscle - for life extension purposes, you don't actually want to put on much. A regimen with a focus on strength-building (not muscle building) is probably superior, and thus eccentric resistance should be avoided. The goal is to be strong and have dense muscles. Having big muscles and a firey-metabolism just means that you're aging faster.

[Pablo M]

I quite disagree that for an immortalist, martial arts are good choice.  I don't know about you, but the number of instructors I've seen with ruined joints or limps is just too high to believe that a lot of martial arts are good for long-term health.  I agree however, that as a skill, it can be very valuable, and a good marital art gives a host of benefits with regards to hand-eye, endurance, flexibility, etc.

And in regards to putting on muscle - for life extension purposes, you don't actually want to put on much.  A regimen with a focus on strength-building (not muscle building) is probably superior, and thus eccentric resistance should be avoided.  The goal is to be strong and have dense muscles.  Having big muscles and a firey-metabolism just means that you're aging faster.

I agree that some people waaaaay overdo exercise. You see these old guys, thin as a rail, clad in lycra and going on 2-3 hour runs everyday. They look like crap too. Likewise the serious lifters who've been taxing their muscles their entire lives look liike shit too. However for people who have a good diet and take lots of antioxidants, I think moderate exercise is excellent and has proven benefits, especially cardiovascularly. I love being in good physical shape.

[JonesGuy]

Absolutely. The body works best when kept fit (through an adversarial process called "exercise).

I'm just pointing out that reving up the metabolism to extreme levels will age you faster.

[eternaltraveler]

I'll tell you after I find my self being bored for a couple thousand years.

[jaydfox]

I agree that some people waaaaay overdo exercise. You see these old guys, thin as a rail, clad in lycra and going on 2-3 hour runs everyday. They look like crap too. Likewise the serious lifters who've been taxing their muscles their entire lives look liike shit too. However for people who have a good diet and take lots of antioxidants, I think moderate exercise is excellent and has proven benefits, especially cardiovascularly. I love being in good physical shape.

Good point. While we're far from understanding the specifics of metabolism and aging and exercise, early evidence indicates that the oxidative stress of exercising, which can only be a bad thing without compensatory mechanisms, is actually good for us. The reason it's good is two-fold: it "tunes" our mitochondria, improving their efficiency and lowering oxidant production for the 23.5 hours a day we're not exercising. Second, the increased oxidative load increases the production of enzymatic anti-oxidants and DNA repair enzymes in the places they're needed, e.g. in mitochondria and near the DNA [1].

(As a sidenote, taking antioxidants right before exercise can be counterproductive, because the antioxidants will reduce the oxidative load during exercise, and will hence prevent the formation of enzymatic anti-oxidants, reducing the effectiveness of the exercise. [2,3])

Now if you increase your oxidative load by 1000% over baseline for a half an hour, and then your oxidative load is reduced by 10% under baseline for the next 47.5 hours (assuming you work out every other day), then you actually come out fairly neutral with respect to cumulative oxidative damage. The increase in enzymatic antioxidants probably is the extra benefit to offset this amount and make the exercise worth it.

On the other hand, if you work out three hours a day, then you will most definitely be coming out behind, and I doubt that the extra enzymes could even come close to mopping up that kind of damage. You could literally be subtracting years from your remaining lifespan if you exercise that much. I vaguely recall that stresses like exercise might help get rid of mutant mitochondria [4,5], so this might further offset the oxidative damage, by reducing the oxidative output associated with mutants. Of course, according to the reductive hotspot hypothesis [6-8], faulty mitos probably aren't adding much anyway, so this would only matter in old age when the number of completely mitochondrially defective cells is at its highest.

How much exercise is too much is an open question, but 2-3 hours a day seems like it's probably too much. It'd be good to know where the point of diminishing returns is, but I don't know how a study could be conducted to determine this.

(1) Sato Y, Nanri H, Ohta M, Kasai H, Ikeda M.
Increase of human MTH1 and decrease of 8-hydroxydeoxyguanosine in leukocyte DNA by acute and chronic exercise in healthy male subjects.
Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2003 May 30;305(2):333-8.
PMID: 12745079 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

(2) Kondo M, Yanase S, Ishii T, Hartman PS, Matsumoto K, Ishii N.
The p38 signal transduction pathway participates in the oxidative stress-mediated translocation of DAF-16 to Caenorhabditis elegans nuclei.
Mech Ageing Dev. 2005 Jun-Jul;126(6-7):642-7. Epub 2005 Jan 11.

(3) Kondo M, Yanase S, Ishii T, Hartman PS, Matsumoto K, Ishii N.
DECREASING XANTHINE OXIDASE MEDIATED OXIDATIVE STRESS PREVENTS USEFUL CELLULAR ADAPTATIONS TO EXERCISE IN RATS.
J Physiol. 2005 Jun 2; [Epub ahead of print]

(4) CR Society archive link:
Roughing up mitochondria may eliminate the losers from the pack

(5) Priault M, Salin B, Schaeffer J, Vallette FM, di Rago JP, Martinou JC.
Impairing the bioenergetic status and the biogenesis of mitochondria triggers mitophagy in yeast.
Cell Death Differ. 2005 Jun 10; [Epub ahead of print]
PMID: 15947785 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

(6) de Grey, ADNJ
A proposed refinement of the mitochondrial free radical theory of aging.
Bioessays. 1997 Feb;19(2):161-6. Review.
PMID: 9046246 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

(7) de Grey, ADNJ
The reductive hotspot hypothesis of mammalian aging: membrane metabolism magnifies mutant mitochondrial mischief.
Eur J Biochem. 2002 Apr;269(8):2003-9. Review.
PMID: 11985576 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

(8) de Grey, ADNJ
The reductive hotspot hypothesis: an update.
Arch Biochem Biophys. 2000 Jan 1;373(1):295-301. Review.
PMID: 10620352 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[jaydfox]

Repetitive motion endurance activities actually burn away muscle, at the rate of one gram per five minutes, beginning after the first 20 minutes of aerobic level activity. I avoid these activities like the plague, such as running and bike riding. I do not do any aerobic activity, except for martial arts, which is very mild, except for short bursts of sparring that only last a few minutes (thus do not cross that catabolic 20 minute threshold).

If you're going to do aerobics strictly for longevity purposes, here's the key: Variable intensity (interval training), and do not exceed 20 minutes total per session, with at least two hours between sessions. (BTW, walking is something else entirely, and you can walk all you want, even at a fairly rapid pace.)

Scott, some readers of my CR blog had a question about where you came up with these numbers. It's not that we don't believe you, but we'd like to see the sources so we can figure what to make of it and how it applies to CR and/or weight loss.

Do you have a reference, or know of a website that has references? Thanks in advance.