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Cordyceps- Great for motivation

cordyceps

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#61 normalizing

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 05:00 AM

stay away from host defense cordyceps. its such a high priced scam, its unreal! they used to be called fungi perfecti until they changed their name for some reason and i was gullible enough to think they changed their whole quality of material, WRONG! they probably changed name to escape criticism with their old name for crappy material this way making even more income as some kind of reformed company. the crap is so bad, i will be taking 10 capsules with no effect for days except diarrhea, which is, the product itself! STAY AWAY!!!



#62 nooguyz

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 07:52 AM

stay away from host defense cordyceps. its such a high priced scam, its unreal! they used to be called fungi perfecti until they changed their name for some reason and i was gullible enough to think they changed their whole quality of material, WRONG! they probably changed name to escape criticism with their old name for crappy material this way making even more income as some kind of reformed company. the crap is so bad, i will be taking 10 capsules with no effect for days except diarrhea, which is, the product itself! STAY AWAY!!!

Thanks for the tip! Though I'm more curious about eBay suppliers and Aloha Medicinals with way better prices and bottles that don't look nearly as shady, haha. But I'm also in Europe, which is a different market from those in the US. That's why it makes it hard to find information for me sometimes, because most people online are from the US, or they stick to forums in their own language... :/



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#63 Adaptogen

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 09:50 AM

Thanks for the tip! Though I'm more curious about eBay suppliers and Aloha Medicinals with way better prices and bottles that don't look nearly as shady, haha. But I'm also in Europe, which is a different market from those in the US. That's why it makes it hard to find information for me sometimes, because most people online are from the US, or they stick to forums in their own language... :/

 

While I have never tried Aloha Medicinals, I wouldn't recommend it. They use very deceitful marketing, claiming that they can grow cordyceps with bioactive constituents several times higher than is found in wild cordyceps...and then they turn around and sell a product that has neglible active ingredients and mislabel their COAs. Get Chinese grown (or Korean, Taiwanse, Japanese) cordyceps. It is really not that difficult to find a reasonable product, Cordyceps militaris is a food-grade mushroom in china, no more rare than shiitake. They even serve it in airline food, on international flights to China.

https://www.ebay.com.../192376370785? - This would be my personal choice... 500 grams / $39.  ( I have a 50g bag of whole dried militaris at home, essentially the same product as this, and it tastes more or less identical to the much more expensive militaris powder sold by Nammex/NootropicsDepot/RM, FourSigmatic, etc, etc)
Note: for whole dried mushrooms, make tea by steeping in boiling water or cook with them, since they are generally unextracted

https://www.ebay.com...A/271306224505? - (probably fine, but bulk China powders are more questionable)

https://www.ebay.com...ls/183106074043 - (Korean Cordyceps militaris pills, surprisingly good price for a Korean product, but several times more expensive than Chinese products)
 



#64 Adaptogen

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 10:05 AM

You can also buy Jin Shui Bao capsules on ebay. Jin Shui Bao / Bai Ling is the prescription formulation of CS-4 (fermented mycelium) that has been researched extensively and studied in multiple clinical trials over the past few decades. I've never used tried this , but it is no doubt a reputable product.   https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jin-Shui-Bao-Cleaner-lung-Improve-Respiratory-strength-Cordyceps-Sinensis/152476220966?

You can read about the product and company here: http://en.jmkx.com/a...p?articleId=522. Apparently Jin Shui Bao is:
     "A new traditional Chinese medication under State Category I (1987)

     First Cordyceps sinensis fungus powder preparation approved for sale on the market

     First Cordyceps sinensis fungus powder preparation included in the Pharmacopoeia of the People’s Republic of China (2000)

     A drug included in the National Catalogue of Drugs for Medical Insurance"

This is a nice review of 22 studies, 13 of which used Jin Shui Bao capsules and nine used Bai Ling capsules..."Jin Shui Bao capsules contain 0.33 g fermented Cordyceps and Bai Ling capsules contain 0.2 g Cordyceps."  - Cordyceps sinensis (a traditional Chinese medicine) for treating chronic kidney disease


Edited by Adaptogen, 07 March 2018 - 10:11 AM.


#65 EFTANG

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 08:49 PM

[...]  eBay suppliers and Aloha Medicinals with way better prices and bottles that don't look nearly as shady, haha. But I'm also in Europe, which is a different market from those in the US. That's why it makes it hard to find information for me sometimes [...]

 

 

Check this thread about Aloha Medicinals : http://www.longecity...oha-medicinals/

 

You cannot get a villa for the price of a shed. The same applies to mushroom supplements. It costs money to grow and process these products.

 

A good quality product will be more expensive but in return you get verifiable quality, the products were tested for heavy metals and bio-active compounds. You usually get good value for money. 

 

 

Adaptogen, on 07 Mar 2018 - 10:50 AM, said:

 

While I have never tried Aloha Medicinals, I wouldn't recommend it. They use very deceitful marketing, claiming that they can grow cordyceps with bioactive constituents several times higher than is found in wild cordyceps...and then they turn around and sell a product that has neglible active ingredients and mislabel their COAs. Get Chinese grown (or Korean, Taiwanse, Japanese) cordyceps. It is really not that difficult to find a reasonable product, Cordyceps militaris is a food-grade mushroom in china, no more rare than shiitake. They even serve it in airline food, on international flights to China.

https://www.ebay.com.../192376370785? - This would be my personal choice... 500 grams / $39.  ( I have a 50g bag of whole dried militaris at home, essentially the same product as this, and it tastes more or less identical to the much more expensive militaris powder sold by Nammex/NootropicsDepot/RM, FourSigmatic, etc, etc)
Note: for whole dried mushrooms, make tea by steeping in boiling water or cook with them, since they are generally unextracted

https://www.ebay.com...A/271306224505? - (probably fine, but bulk China powders are more questionable)

https://www.ebay.com...ls/183106074043 - (Korean Cordyceps militaris pills, surprisingly good price for a Korean product, but several times more expensive than Chinese products)

 

 

 

None of these products offer any backup about quality or reliability. No supplement labels, no proof of quality.

 

They have a low price in common. For that low price you get a non-extracted product that might or might not be the real thing. 

 

Even if it is, you still have no clue what is in it. It will at best be a low level of quality compounds, because in unprocessed mushrooms the levels of beta-glucan and cordycepin are a fraction of what you get in a properly processed extract. The processing removes a lot of useless stuff, thus increasing the percentage of bioactive compounds. By mixing batches of different potency producers can create a constant and standardised quality.

 

None of these products has that, it 's all marketing talk. You have to take their word for it. They're like like the guy offering you a gold watch for 50 dollars at the bus stop "it's the real thing ! I want to do you a favour, you can trust me!" 

 

If you're serious about taking care of your health it is just silly to waste money on unverifiable stuff from unknown producers that cannot show you a single test report. 



#66 NeuroNootropic

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 09:49 PM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Nootropics Depot's Cordyceps. They have both a 1:1 and a 10:1 extract. And they use the fruiting body rather than the mycelium. Most Cordyceps on the market use the mycelium, not the fruiting body.



#67 Adaptogen

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 10:32 PM

Nootropics Depot is sourced from Nammex, and also very overpriced.

As for Vlad's comments above, there is no "faking" a whole dried cordyceps militaris fruiting body, nor is there any reason to fake it. Nobody is adulterating cordyceps militaris like they might wild harvested cordyceps.  Cultivated high quality cordyceps is cheap and mass produced. In 2014, China was producing 8,000 tons of Codyceps Militaris annually, expected to exceed 19,000 tons by 2017 [r].

 

This 2017 study claims: "Cordyceps militaris that can be purchased in the market contains 300 mg of cordycepin per 100 g of total weight on average."  That is 0.3% cordycepin on average for cordyceps militaris bought in Chinese markets! There is no reason to waste your money on an overpriced, "standardized product" that is no more potent than what you can buy in a Chinese grocery store.


 



#68 EFTANG

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 11:34 PM

Nootropics Depot is sourced from Nammex, and also very overpriced.

As for Vlad's comments above, there is no "faking" a whole dried cordyceps militaris fruiting body, nor is there any reason to fake it. Nobody is adulterating cordyceps militaris like they might wild harvested cordyceps.  Cultivated high quality cordyceps is cheap and mass produced. In 2014, China was producing 8,000 tons of Codyceps Militaris annually, expected to exceed 19,000 tons by 2017 [r].

 

This 2017 study claims: "Cordyceps militaris that can be purchased in the market contains 300 mg of cordycepin per 100 g of total weight on average."  That is 0.3% cordycepin on average for cordyceps militaris bought in Chinese markets! There is no reason to waste your money on an overpriced, "standardized product" that is no more potent than what you can buy in a Chinese grocery store.

 

 

Nootropics Depot is not specifying anything useful, that would be my reason to look elsewhere. They focus on beta-glucan, which is not a marker for Cordyceps at all.

 

I have asked them why they did not specify cordycepin and adenosine and received no reply. They also did not want to share a test report. Only the home-made data sheet they have on their website.

 

The 1:1 or 10:1 is a claim that means nothing as a marker for quality - only percentages of active ingredients really matter IMO.

 

Let's assume all Cordyceps militaris indeed contains 0.3% cordycepin (which I doubt) like Adaptogen states.

 

In order to match the 1.2% cordycepin Oriveda is currently claiming it has to be 4 times cheaper,  at least.

 

Oriveda charges $1.35 p/gram, which is almost the same amount of money you'd have to spend with the eBay sellers you mentioned before if you want to get the same amount of cordycepin, assuming there's .3% cordycepin in that. And they charge you for a non-extracted, unspecified encapsulated product.  

 

Only the unprocessed raw C.militaris product is cheaper (about half the price) but that makes sense because no processing / testing / encapsulating was done. You still need to extract the stuff yourself (make tea) which will most likely not yield the same results a professional facility will achieve.

 

The conclusion is that the price difference is actually minimal. More important for me is that with a properly documented product you have the guarantee you have something useful and safe. 


Edited by Vlad, 07 March 2018 - 11:39 PM.

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#69 normalizing

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 03:14 AM

vlad keeps advertising oriveda which never replies to my emails where i asked dozen of questions regarding their cordyceps...

 

anyway, adaptogen how can you trust china having anything without chemicals and toxins of various origin? i have read reports which are 90% stating their herbs and various foods and spices are overloaded with various toxic crap. its just impossible to trust china, sorry NO hatred towards them, just facts of how crappy their shit is :/


Edited by hazy, 08 March 2018 - 03:14 AM.

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#70 nooguyz

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 05:24 AM

 

Thanks for the tip! Though I'm more curious about eBay suppliers and Aloha Medicinals with way better prices and bottles that don't look nearly as shady, haha. But I'm also in Europe, which is a different market from those in the US. That's why it makes it hard to find information for me sometimes, because most people online are from the US, or they stick to forums in their own language... :/

 

While I have never tried Aloha Medicinals, I wouldn't recommend it. They use very deceitful marketing, claiming that they can grow cordyceps with bioactive constituents several times higher than is found in wild cordyceps...and then they turn around and sell a product that has neglible active ingredients and mislabel their COAs. Get Chinese grown (or Korean, Taiwanse, Japanese) cordyceps. It is really not that difficult to find a reasonable product, Cordyceps militaris is a food-grade mushroom in china, no more rare than shiitake. They even serve it in airline food, on international flights to China.

https://www.ebay.com.../192376370785? - This would be my personal choice... 500 grams / $39.  ( I have a 50g bag of whole dried militaris at home, essentially the same product as this, and it tastes more or less identical to the much more expensive militaris powder sold by Nammex/NootropicsDepot/RM, FourSigmatic, etc, etc)
Note: for whole dried mushrooms, make tea by steeping in boiling water or cook with them, since they are generally unextracted

https://www.ebay.com...A/271306224505? - (probably fine, but bulk China powders are more questionable)

https://www.ebay.com...ls/183106074043 - (Korean Cordyceps militaris pills, surprisingly good price for a Korean product, but several times more expensive than Chinese products)
 

 

Hmm, that's a good point about getting the shrooms from their natural habitat. Was very interesting to hear that they even give it on the planes, haha. It's interesting to me how some cultures just consume some foods as simple foods rather than seeing them as somehow special or as a supplement...

 

Anyway, onto the point. Well, I am not looking for the taste, I am looking mainly for the cognitive benefits (the rest is just a bonus). Particularly for this mushroom's dopaminergic and MAOI effects, because I have very serious issues with both low dopamine and high MAOI.

 

I've read something about extracts before (and just double-checked it) - water extract does not extract non-water-soluble bioactives, which means that I would have to either consume the mushroom as well or make ethanol extract. I've also read somewhere else (couldn't find it now in my literally thousands of pages daily browser history) that just plain consuming it will not absorb the bioactives, hence it HAS to be extracted to become active. I don't remember if it was talking about the water or the ethanol extract though.

 

Do you know anything about this, or perhaps have some experience yourself?

 

You can also buy Jin Shui Bao capsules on ebay. Jin Shui Bao / Bai Ling is the prescription formulation of CS-4 (fermented mycelium) that has been researched extensively and studied in multiple clinical trials over the past few decades. I've never used tried this , but it is no doubt a reputable product.   https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jin-Shui-Bao-Cleaner-lung-Improve-Respiratory-strength-Cordyceps-Sinensis/152476220966?

You can read about the product and company here: http://en.jmkx.com/a...p?articleId=522. Apparently Jin Shui Bao is:
     "A new traditional Chinese medication under State Category I (1987)

     First Cordyceps sinensis fungus powder preparation approved for sale on the market

     First Cordyceps sinensis fungus powder preparation included in the Pharmacopoeia of the People’s Republic of China (2000)

     A drug included in the National Catalogue of Drugs for Medical Insurance"

This is a nice review of 22 studies, 13 of which used Jin Shui Bao capsules and nine used Bai Ling capsules..."Jin Shui Bao capsules contain 0.33 g fermented Cordyceps and Bai Ling capsules contain 0.2 g Cordyceps."  - Cordyceps sinensis (a traditional Chinese medicine) for treating chronic kidney disease

 

Yes, I have read about fermented cordyceps being even more potent than simply extracting. But it was just one not so credible source... However, fermenting foods does a lot of good... I have been fermenting something whenever I settle down for awhile. Though after finding out about Tyramine when taking MAOIs (big part of my grandplan for fixing myself, haha), I will have to stop with that unfortunately.

 

Anyway, the price of those is pretty high - 8eu for 20 days if I supplement with 1g of it, and the needed active dosage seems to be around 750mg-1g (although I was unable to find out the recommended dosage for increasing MAOI and dopamine, so it might be even higher - if anyone has input, it would be much appreciated), and I definitely can't afford 12eu/month just for one supplement, that's food money for a week, haha.



#71 Adaptogen

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 05:43 AM

I personally have not noticed any cognitive benefits or really any effects at all from cordyceps. Cordyceps is generally not solvent extracted (unlike reishi and other mushrooms that require solvents to extract triterpenes) and brewing the mushroom + consuming the mushroom after making tea will probably make a pretty effective method of ingestion. In Nepal, cordyceps is traditionally consumed boiled in yak milk or soaked in spirits as a tincture.



#72 nooguyz

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 06:22 AM

Check this thread about Aloha Medicinals : http://www.longecity...oha-medicinals/

 

 

 

You cannot get a villa for the price of a shed. The same applies to mushroom supplements. It costs money to grow and process these products.

 

A good quality product will be more expensive but in return you get verifiable quality, the products were tested for heavy metals and bio-active compounds. You usually get good value for money. 

 

 

 

None of these products offer any backup about quality or reliability. No supplement labels, no proof of quality.

 

They have a low price in common. For that low price you get a non-extracted product that might or might not be the real thing. 

 

Even if it is, you still have no clue what is in it. It will at best be a low level of quality compounds, because in unprocessed mushrooms the levels of beta-glucan and cordycepin are a fraction of what you get in a properly processed extract. The processing removes a lot of useless stuff, thus increasing the percentage of bioactive compounds. By mixing batches of different potency producers can create a constant and standardised quality.

 

None of these products has that, it 's all marketing talk. You have to take their word for it. They're like like the guy offering you a gold watch for 50 dollars at the bus stop "it's the real thing ! I want to do you a favour, you can trust me!" 

 

If you're serious about taking care of your health it is just silly to waste money on unverifiable stuff from unknown producers that cannot show you a single test report. 

 

Thanks for the link! That cleared things up about Aloha Medicinals. Some Indian seller on eBay also faked a COA and sent it. It was funny to read it - it had so many typos, even a few typos in the name of the species alone...

 

 

Well, I understand what you are saying and I actually agree with most of it. However my life situation has gotten so bad that I was homeless once already, and I want to fix my brain before I run out of money again. So I managed to fix my nutrition, and now I'm trying to find the best supplements that I can get for the problems that I've spent days researching and identifying within myself. Main things that I need to fix are dopamine production and MAO activity, followed by increasing norepinephrine production. Followed by Acetylcholine production to a lesser extend, and followed by serotonin and GABA production to an even lesser extend. Since my savings are very, very limited, I cannot afford to spend more than 10eu/month total, for ALL the supplements that I would need. And even that would be a significant amount, so I would prefer even less, but that's not even realistic.

 
So while I agree with you, I just honestly cannot afford it because I do not want to end up homeless again before I can even attempt to fix my brain.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Nootropics Depot's Cordyceps. They have both a 1:1 and a 10:1 extract. And they use the fruiting body rather than the mycelium. Most Cordyceps on the market use the mycelium, not the fruiting body.

Someone in this thread mentioned that mycelium might be better than the fruiting body (not sure where, I am still in progress of replying). However I've read in other threads that fruiting body is the only way to go if you want the full benefits (including mental ones, which is what I'm after).

 

As for their cordyceps, as someone else has mentioned, Nootropics Depot is way overpriced, and I definitely cannot afford to spend around 1eu/day (that includes shipping) for just one supplement. I spend that or slightly more on food per day, depending on the day, and I have very limited savings. Also, they don't specify the other bioactives, so basically you'd just be going for the brand here...

 

Nootropics Depot is sourced from Nammex, and also very overpriced.

As for Vlad's comments above, there is no "faking" a whole dried cordyceps militaris fruiting body, nor is there any reason to fake it. Nobody is adulterating cordyceps militaris like they might wild harvested cordyceps.  Cultivated high quality cordyceps is cheap and mass produced. In 2014, China was producing 8,000 tons of Codyceps Militaris annually, expected to exceed 19,000 tons by 2017 [r].

 

This 2017 study claims: "Cordyceps militaris that can be purchased in the market contains 300 mg of cordycepin per 100 g of total weight on average."  That is 0.3% cordycepin on average for cordyceps militaris bought in Chinese markets! There is no reason to waste your money on an overpriced, "standardized product" that is no more potent than what you can buy in a Chinese grocery store.

 

I agree about the faking part, however the active ingredient content besides cordyceptin might be very low or non existent in cordyceps grown on rice hulls rather than cultivated from larvae, and the "on average" part means that I could be getting a product with either 0.1% or 0.6% - it's a big gamble, and I couldn't resell the mushrooms because they're open nor claim a return, so if they don't increase my MAOI nor dopamine, which means I'd just lose a month of food supply. Then again, same thing can happen with unverified sellers as well...

 

 

 

 

Nootropics Depot is not specifying anything useful, that would be my reason to look elsewhere. They focus on beta-glucan, which is not a marker for Cordyceps at all.

 

I have asked them why they did not specify cordycepin and adenosine and received no reply. They also did not want to share a test report. Only the home-made data sheet they have on their website.

 

The 1:1 or 10:1 is a claim that means nothing as a marker for quality - only percentages of active ingredients really matter IMO.

 

Let's assume all Cordyceps militaris indeed contains 0.3% cordycepin (which I doubt) like Adaptogen states.

 

In order to match the 1.2% cordycepin Oriveda is currently claiming it has to be 4 times cheaper,  at least.

 

Oriveda charges $1.35 p/gram, which is almost the same amount of money you'd have to spend with the eBay sellers you mentioned before if you want to get the same amount of cordycepin, assuming there's .3% cordycepin in that. And they charge you for a non-extracted, unspecified encapsulated product.  

 

Only the unprocessed raw C.militaris product is cheaper (about half the price) but that makes sense because no processing / testing / encapsulating was done. You still need to extract the stuff yourself (make tea) which will most likely not yield the same results a professional facility will achieve.

 

The conclusion is that the price difference is actually minimal. More important for me is that with a properly documented product you have the guarantee you have something useful and safe. 

 

I agree completely about Nootropcis Depot here, and I agree with the home extraction methods probably yielding less efficient results. I would also personally prefer larvae-grown cordyceps instead of rice-grown because I just prefer natural developement. But I can't be picky here. :) If I could find a study about cordyceptin content in a homemade extract from Chinese market bought cordyceps, that would help tremendously - I could then compare it to the claimed numbers by eBay sellers and see what is the most cost-efficient way to supplement them and just go with my gut feeling in the end.

 

Same story as with Reishi here it seems, very useful supplement that is very hard to get (at least properly), and nearly impossible to be sure if you are on a really tight budget. But we'll see where this thread goes, haha.



#73 nooguyz

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 06:39 AM

vlad keeps advertising oriveda which never replies to my emails where i asked dozen of questions regarding their cordyceps...

 

anyway, adaptogen how can you trust china having anything without chemicals and toxins of various origin? i have read reports which are 90% stating their herbs and various foods and spices are overloaded with various toxic crap. its just impossible to trust china, sorry NO hatred towards them, just facts of how crappy their shit is :/

I have also noted down oriveda, but I don't like them after checking their website, but I haven't contacted them yet. Would be more interested in reading experiences instead of course, but for now I'll go with what you said.
 
With the exception of not being able to trust China - shouldn't judge products like that, and China in my experience is a lot more trustworthy than India and some things in America, not to mention Eastern Europe...

 

I personally have not noticed any cognitive benefits or really any effects at all from cordyceps. Cordyceps is generally not solvent extracted (unlike reishi and other mushrooms that require solvents to extract triterpenes) and brewing the mushroom + consuming the mushroom after making tea will probably make a pretty effective method of ingestion. In Nepal, cordyceps is traditionally consumed boiled in yak milk or soaked in spirits as a tincture.

Have you tried various cordyceps extracts, specifically dual extracts? I am asking because people have reported cognitive increases and I've seen some studies reporting increases in norepinephrine, dopamine, and I think something else, as well as MAOB inhibition. And all of this is why I am going after this mushroom, the rest I would only focus when I have fixed my life, and to do that, I need to fix my brain first as I mentioned in my reply to vlad's thoughts on expensive supplements.

 

Basically I wonder if it could be that you were consuming tea, and extracts might after all contain some more of active ingredients, or larvae-grown cordyceps might contain something that these do not (I've actually seen at least one post somewhere suggesting that based on a study, but I didn't follow the link), or the mycellium might also possess such effects, but either to a lower or larger extend than larvae cordyceps and most likely to a higher extend than rice hull cordyceps.

 

Just some thoughts. I'm just trying to be very careful with what I choose before I buy any supplements at all, because my situation is very serious. My brain simply doesn't work and I need to fix it before I run out of money again.

I personally have not noticed any cognitive benefits or really any effects at all from cordyceps. Cordyceps is generally not solvent extracted (unlike reishi and other mushrooms that require solvents to extract triterpenes) and brewing the mushroom + consuming the mushroom after making tea will probably make a pretty effective method of ingestion. In Nepal, cordyceps is traditionally consumed boiled in yak milk or soaked in spirits as a tincture.

Have you tried various cordyceps extracts, specifically dual extracts? I am asking because people have reported cognitive increases and I've seen some studies reporting increases in norepinephrine, dopamine, and I think something else, as well as MAOB inhibition. And all of this is why I am going after this mushroom, the rest I would only focus when I have fixed my life, and to do that, I need to fix my brain first as I mentioned in my reply to vlad's thoughts on expensive supplements.

 

Basically I wonder if it could be that you were consuming tea, and extracts might after all contain some more of active ingredients, or larvae-grown cordyceps might contain something that these do not (I've actually seen at least one post somewhere suggesting that based on a study, but I didn't follow the link), or the mycellium might also possess such effects, but either to a lower or larger extend than larvae cordyceps and most likely to a higher extend than rice hull cordyceps.

 

Just some thoughts. I'm just trying to be very careful with what I choose before I buy any supplements at all, because my situation is very serious. My brain simply doesn't work and I need to fix it before I run out of money again.



#74 MJ82

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Posted 10 April 2018 - 12:22 PM

Does anyone know if there is a risk with taking cordyceps, that it will result in dopamine receptor down-regulation as a result of boosting dopamine production?

I want to start taking this but am concerned, or would this only be an issue if one does not cycle and take breaks during usage?

Any advice would be very welcome! Thanks

#75 Galaxyshock

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Posted 10 April 2018 - 12:52 PM

Does anyone know if there is a risk with taking cordyceps, that it will result in dopamine receptor down-regulation as a result of boosting dopamine production?

I want to start taking this but am concerned, or would this only be an issue if one does not cycle and take breaks during usage?

Any advice would be very welcome! Thanks

 

Tolerance slowly developes but there's no state that would resemble downregulation. You just return to baseline or a bit above it after stopping in my experience.


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#76 Nate-2004

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Posted 10 April 2018 - 06:45 PM

According to Examine there's not that much evidence for the beneficial claims of any particular mushroom variety (cordyceps, reishi, lion's mane, etc). I'm not sure why there is such an uproar about this mushroom right now. It isn't well studied at all.


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#77 EFTANG

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Posted 10 April 2018 - 07:12 PM

According to Examine there's not that much evidence for the beneficial claims of any particular mushroom variety (cordyceps, reishi, lion's mane, etc). I'm not sure why there is such an uproar about this mushroom right now. It isn't well studied at all.

 

 

Like you state "According to Examine.com". LOL

 

Don't rely on examine.com - I used to work for them for some time. I can tell you the information there is a good starting point but that's about it. Do not rely on it. They are not objective, have a commercial goal and lack actual knowledge.

 

Simple example to illustrate my point : the dosage recommendations for mushroom products. They just copy/paste vendor's recommendations. Most vendors are completely ignorant - they merely sell a product. They move boxes from A to B. They copy/paste from sites such as examine.com...(!)

 

Not taking into account:

 

- extracted / not extracted;

- mycelium, biomass or fruiting body based

- different strains of a species

- levels of active ingredients in the products (a natural product is not standardised unless processed to meet a certain standard, but they assume all Reishi / Turkey Tail / Cordyceps etc etc is the same or so it seems)

- research / literature findings

 

Go to Pubmed and use search phrases like  Reishi, Ganoderma, Cordycepin etc etc. Reishi alone has over 2000 different research publications.  Etc...

 

Do your own research !!


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#78 Nate-2004

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Posted 10 April 2018 - 09:14 PM

Like you state "According to Examine.com". LOL

 

Don't rely on examine.com - I used to work for them for some time. I can tell you the information there is a good starting point but that's about it. Do not rely on it. They are not objective, have a commercial goal and lack actual knowledge.

 

Simple example to illustrate my point : the dosage recommendations for mushroom products. They just copy/paste vendor's recommendations. Most vendors are completely ignorant - they merely sell a product. They move boxes from A to B. They copy/paste from sites such as examine.com...(!)

 

Not taking into account:

 

- extracted / not extracted;

- mycelium, biomass or fruiting body based

- different strains of a species

- levels of active ingredients in the products (a natural product is not standardised unless processed to meet a certain standard, but they assume all Reishi / Turkey Tail / Cordyceps etc etc is the same or so it seems)

- research / literature findings

 

Go to Pubmed and use search phrases like  Reishi, Ganoderma, Cordycepin etc etc. Reishi alone has over 2000 different research publications.  Etc...

 

Do your own research !!

 

Ok well pub med has one *single* published clinical trial on humans for cordyceps. It doesn't even mention anything about its supposed nootropic benefits.


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#79 Galaxyshock

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 02:59 AM

According to Examine there's not that much evidence for the beneficial claims of any particular mushroom variety (cordyceps, reishi, lion's mane, etc). I'm not sure why there is such an uproar about this mushroom right now. It isn't well studied at all.

 

Yes meanwhile your "depression guide" is a thoroughly studied cure-all mental problems.


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#80 EFTANG

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:12 PM

Ok well pub med has one *single* published clinical trial on humans for cordyceps. It doesn't even mention anything about its supposed nootropic benefits.

 

 

I think you need to work a bit on your 'research skills'. Cordyceps actually has a high number of clinical results and case studies. Actual nootropic effects are unlikely, IMO the 'effects' people mention here and there are mainly a side effect of 'feeling better'. Placebo.

 

Do not underestimate the power of placebo !!

 

Anekdote: my brother works as a researcher and one of his recent projects was developing an air-cleaner with highly innovative membrane filters. The target audience were mainly COPD patients.

They distributed 100 test models to people, asking them to report their findings. Everybody was very satisfied and reported improvements, no exceptions. However, the researchers noticed several people forgot to take the filter from the plastic shrink-wrap so no air ever passed through it; and there were also several dummy cleaners, which had no filter at all inside.  Conclusion: it actually made no difference to have a filter or not. What mattered was that people got the feeling of being in control again. I guess...


Edited by Vlad, 11 April 2018 - 09:25 PM.

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#81 normalizing

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 04:03 PM

ive tried to find clinical trials on cordyceps too and as nate mentioned, they seem scarce. vlad instead of continuously lecturing us on how things arent as they seem, why dont you add useful information like all the human trials on cordyceps that you have actually seen? so far from all the products you mentioned and others as well, no product containing cordyceps has done anything noticeable to anyone here worth mentioning. placebo or not


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#82 EFTANG

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:58 PM

ive tried to find clinical trials on cordyceps too and as nate mentioned, they seem scarce. vlad instead of continuously lecturing us on how things arent as they seem, why dont you add useful information like all the human trials on cordyceps that you have actually seen? so far from all the products you mentioned and others as well, no product containing cordyceps has done anything noticeable to anyone here worth mentioning. placebo or not

 

Google away - this is a bit of general Cordyceps clinical research. There's a lot more, and I have not even included cordycepin studies.

 

  • Effects of a supplement designed to increase ATP levels on muscle strength, power output, and endurance (2008)                                                               
  • Clinical efficiacy of Cordyceps sinensis for chronic kidney diseases: A systematic review (2006) 
  • Effect of CS-4 (Cordyceps sinensis) on exercise performance in healthy older subjects: A double-blind, placebo-controlled trial (2010)
  • Clinical Application of Cordyceps sinensis on Immunosuppressive Therapy in Renal transplantation (2009)
  • Effectiveness of Cordyceps sinensis alone or in combination with chemotherapy in patients with non-small cell lung cancer. (2008)
  • Clinical observation of Cordyceps combined with NP regimen in treatment of advanced non-small cell lung cancer (2007)
  • Effect of a mixture of mycelial extract of cultured Cordyceps sinensis and Ayamurasaki anthocyanin on the mental condition of middle-aged people (2005)
  • Supplemental anti-fatigue effects of Cordyceps sinensis (Tochu-Kaso) extract powder during three stepwise exercise of human (2006)
  • Efficiacy of Cordyceps sinensis in long term treatment of renal transplant patients (2011)
  • Study on pharmacological action and clinical application of Cordyceps sinensis (2000)
  • Study progress in pharmacologic action of Cordyceps sinensis (1999)
  • Effects of Cordyceps sinensis on T lymphocyte subsets and hepatofibrosis in patients with chronic hepatitis B (2000)
  • Activation of macrophages and the intestinal immune system by an orally administered decoction from cultured medium of Corydyceps sinensis (2002)
  • Supplemental effects of Cordyceps sinensis extract on long distance runners.(1998)
  • Anti-fatigue effectiveness of Cordyceps sinensis extract by the double blind method (2002)
  • Cordyceps militaris Improves Tolerance to High-Intensity Exercise After Acute and Chronic Supplementation. (2017)
  • The Effects of High and Low-Dose Cordyceps Militaris-Containing Mushroom Blend Supplementation After Seven and Twenty-Eight Days (2017)
  • Observations of effects of Jin Shui Bao on SOD activity in COED patients (1995)

Edited by Vlad, 19 May 2018 - 10:07 PM.

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#83 normalizing

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 04:57 PM

i see. i was more interested in its antidepressant + libido boost effects but it seems the studies are all about exercise. and it seems CS4 is the best type to get for this?



#84 EFTANG

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 09:33 AM

i see. i was more interested in its antidepressant + libido boost effects but it seems the studies are all about exercise. and it seems CS4 is the best type to get for this?

 

 

You said there were very little clinical trials available, so I posted some. There's nothing in your posts about anti-depressant / libido-boosting, but if you read the provided research it will lead you to related research that covers that as well.

 

And no, it's not that CS-4 is best, CS-4 is only the one with the biggest body of research behind it. When reading the research you should look at the compounds thought to be responsible for the effects, like cordycepin. That's also found in other types of Cordyceps.


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#85 Izan

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 02:09 PM

Is cordyceps from oriveda legit or not?


Edited by izan82, 25 August 2019 - 02:11 PM.


#86 Blueflash

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 07:00 PM

Is cordyceps from oriveda legit or not?


For my money, I use millennium sport technologies Cordygen 5, or Dr''s Best.

#87 kurdishfella

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 10:30 PM

if a simple herb like st johns wort makes you ''feel suicidal'' then maybe you shouldn't be taking and trying new supplements/drugs, you clown. you are a joke.


Edited by farshad, 05 September 2019 - 10:33 PM.

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#88 shp5

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 07:16 AM

For my money, I use millennium sport technologies Cordygen 5, or Dr''s Best.

 

After years I stll go with Dr.s Best after having tried a few others. There's a rather pleasant effect on my libido I didn't get (as much) with others, and it kills a cold if you take it early enough (especially together with LEF advanced zinc lozenges). That said, I am happy for recommendations for new brands.


Edited by shp5, 11 September 2019 - 07:17 AM.






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