9 replies to this topic

[nowayout]

I've had my DHEA tested several times over the past few years and it is always very low - below the lower limit of the stated range in fact. 

 

I was wondering if anybody knew a bit more about DHEA, why it could be low, and what it would actually be good for.  None of the studies I have been able to read really seem to find any good reasons for low DHEA or any repeatable benefits from supplementing it in older populations.  (I'm not that old - I'm a youngish-looking 40-something - think Paul Rudd not Steve Colbert.)    Is it something worthwhile to even consider? 

[albedo]

I basically have the same questions and also have been looking at it w/o much results. I am now 58 and also have it very low as per my last results (15.4 mcg/dl in a lab ref. range of 50-377).

 

Doctors (in particular urologists with experience with male hormones) told me there is no need to supplement, we have so much of this hormone circulating and if your T and free T is OK why bothering. I stopped experimenting with supplementation for cautiousness because of my prostate condition (mild BPH, but had to go through a TURP surgery due to a bladder rather than prostate condition). Using a 25 mg oral dosage (considered physiological) on empty stomach in the morning (micronized version from LEF) I was able to have DHEA-S in the 200 mcg/dl range. W/o supplementation it has been steadily declining. DHEA is not causative of prostate cancer but you need to be cautious and it is not recommended if you do have cancer. I also reported in the previous link (and in the LEF forum) a reply from a practitioner regarding when and how supplementing.

 

I attach 2 files you might be interested in.

 

Please keep investigating this subject and let us know.

Attached Files

•  DHEA 1.full.pdf   176.76KB   10 downloads
•  DHEA.pdf   13.01KB   9 downloads

Edited by albedo, 27 April 2014 - 10:26 AM.

[nowayout]

I basically have the same questions and also have been looking at it w/o much results. I am now 58 and also have it very low as per my last results (15.4 mcg/dl in a lab ref. range of 50-377).

 

Doctors (in particular urologists with experience with male hormones) told me there is no need to supplement, we have so much of this hormone circulating and if your T and free T is OK why bothering. I stopped experimenting with supplementation for cautiousness because of my prostate condition (mild BPH, but had to go through a TURP surgery due to a bladder rather than prostate condition). Using a 25 mg oral dosage (considered physiological) on empty stomach in the morning (micronized version from LEF) I was able to have DHEA-S in the 200 mcg/dl range. W/o supplementation it has been steadily declining. DHEA is not causative of prostate cancer but you need to be cautious and it is not recommended if you do have cancer. I also reported in the previous link (and in the LEF forum) a reply from a practitioner regarding when and how supplementing.

 

I attach 2 files you might be interested in.

 

Please keep investigating this subject and let us know.

 

Thank you for the information.  I may respond more once I have a chance to read it. 

 

I forgot to mention that I have tried supplementing in the past but each time stopped after a day or two because of side effects.  One was prostate pinch (I normally have no prostate issue) and the worst one is that it seems to lower my pain threshold so that I get very achy from it (I have a lower back condition that is otherwise manageable).  The doctor said I should give it time to settle in but I have never been able to last out these side effects. 

 

[albedo]

Interesting. Thank you for sharing.

 

I never heard about these side effects of DHEA supplementation at least at short term; longer term it is not recommended for BPH (benign prostate hypertrophy), where the urethra is indeed pinched by the prostate, as DHEA can make BPH worse when increasing estrogens and, more importantly for men, DHT (dihydrotestosterone) the latter being the "strongest" version of testosterone. You might read also a LEF article which provides the hormonal cascade, here.

 

Actually some see a connection between lower pack pain and adrenal stress (e.g. see here), a condition many of us have (my very low DHEA might well be due to a chronic stress condition) but DHEA supplementation should help in this case.

 

Which dose have you used?

Have you tried reporting those side effects to a doctor to see what she/he would say? Or research more?

[nowayout]

Interesting. Thank you for sharing.

 

I never heard about these side effects of DHEA supplementation at least at short term; longer term it is not recommended for BPH (benign prostate hypertrophy), where the urethra is indeed pinched by the prostate, as DHEA can make BPH worse when increasing estrogens and, more importantly for men, DHT (dihydrotestosterone) the latter being the "strongest" version of testosterone. You might read also a LEF article which provides the hormonal cascade, here.

 

Actually some see a connection between lower pack pain and adrenal stress (e.g. see here), a condition many of us have (my very low DHEA might well be due to a chronic stress condition) but DHEA supplementation should help in this case.

 

Which dose have you used?

Have you tried reporting those side effects to a doctor to see what she/he would say? Or research more?

 

The only connection between DHEA and possible increase in back pain I could find was the following.

 

The paper suggests that "DHEA enhance[s] the cell-mediated immune response, which may play a role in the pathogenesis of AS."

 

In other words, they hypothesize that DHEA might increase autoimmune inflammatory pain.  However, they base this on the finding (which I am not sure is reproducible) that DHEA is elevated in individuals with A.S. to begin with, and didn't do any intervention trial to test this hypothesis further. 

 

 

Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1999 Jun 22;876:340-64; discussion 365.

Androgens and ankylosing spondylitis: a role in the pathogenesis?

Giltay EJ¹, van Schaardenburg D, Gooren LJ, Popp-Snijders C, Dijkmans BA.

Author information

Abstract

The frequency and severity of ankylosing spondylitis (AS) show a male preponderance, and androgenic steroids have been implicated in its etiology. Some reports have indicated that serum androgen levels are slightly elevated relative to estrogen levels in patients with AS as compared to controls. In more recent studies, however, serum testosterone, 17 beta-estradiol, and androstenedione levels did not significantly differ between AS patients and controls. Moreover, testosterone levels measured directly in serum can be spuriously elevated, especially in patients using phenylbutazone. Elevated serum levels of the adrenal steroids 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) sulfate have been found in patients with AS. These elevations might be explained by partial 11 beta- or 21-hydroxylase deficiencies, but may also be secondary to an enhanced stress response. In vitro studies as well as studies in animals and humans indicate that DHEA enhanced, and 17 beta-estradiol and progesterone inhibit, the cell-mediated immune response, which may play a role in the pathogenesis of AS. Oral estrogen therapy in female patients and human chorionic gonadotrophin injections in male patients with AS, increased the 17 beta-estradiol/testosterone ratio and resulted in a moderate clinical improvement. In conclusion, serum testosterone levels are not elevated in patients with AS. Therefore testosterone probably has no role in the perpetuation of long-standing AS and provides no basis for antiandrogenic treatment. Cross-sectional case-control studies, however, cannot clearly distinguish etiological factors from secondary disease effects, especially when blood sampling occurs many years after the onset of AS. Consequently, the role of sex steroids in the pathogenesis is still insufficiently elucidated.

 

[blood]

This could be relevant for nowayout:

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10376113

 

Biol Psychiatry. 1999 Jun 15;45(12):1533-41.

 

Dehydroepiandrosterone treatment of midlife dysthymia.

 

Bloch M1, Schmidt PJ, Danaceau MA, Adams LF, Rubinow DR.

 

Author information

 

Abstract

 

BACKGROUND:

This study evaluated the efficacy of the adrenal androgen, dehydroepiandrosterone, in the treatment of midlife-onset dysthymia.

 

METHODS:

A double-blind, randomized crossover treatment study was performed as follows: 3 weeks on 90 mg dehydroepiandrosterone, 3 weeks on 450 mg dehydroepiandrosterone, and 6 weeks on placebo. Outcome measures consisted of the following. Cross-sectional self-ratings included the Beck Depression Inventory, and visual analogue symptom scales. Cross-sectional objective ratings included the Hamilton Depression Rating Scale, the Cornell Dysthymia Scale and a cognitive test battery. Seventeen men and women aged 45 to 63 years with midlife-onset dysthymia participated in this study. Response to dehydroepiandrosterone or placebo was defined as a 50% reduction from baseline in either the Hamilton Depression Rating Scale or the Beck Depression Inventory.

 

RESULTS:

In 15 patients who completed the study, a robust effect of dehydroepiandrosterone on mood was observed compared with placebo. Sixty percent of the patients responded to dehydroepiandrosterone at the end of the 6-week treatment period compared with 20% on placebo. A significant response was seen after 3 weeks of treatment on 90 mg per day. The symptoms that improved most significantly were anhedonia, loss of energy, lack of motivation, emotional "numbness," sadness, inability to cope, and worry. Dehydroepiandrosterone showed no specific effects on cognitive function or sleep disturbance, although a type II error could not be ruled out.

 

CONCLUSIONS:

This pilot study suggests that dehydroepiandrosterone is an effective treatment for midlife-onset dysthymia.

 

DHEA: mood, memory, and aging. [Biol Psychiatry. 1999]

 

Edited by blood, 30 April 2014 - 10:19 AM.

[albedo]

Good finding Blood. If DHEA, which is natural to our bodes, helps with dysthymia, the medications doses can be lowered. I understand those medication are often the same prescribed for chronic depression. Of course I would recommend tracking progress with the doctor and in particular doing a PSA test (for males) before and during treatment as the DHEA doses used in the study are supra physiological.

 

Btw, as I mentioned chronic depression, I just found this study which might point to a future blood test:

http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0092543

http://www.scienceda...40429105015.htm

[albedo]

If time this could be a good read for DHEA (expensive):

 

DHEA in Human Health and Aging

http://www.amazon.co...ealth and aging

 

I am checking several sections of the book which are free on Google:

http://books.google....94 dhea&f=false

 

[nowayout]

Thank you about that link regarding DHEA and depression.

 

I again tried starting it, this time at the very low dose of 10 mg a day with the intention to titrate upwards slowly.  However, I had to stop again because on the first day my lower back already started burning again and I got prostate pinch when urinating. 

[albedo]

Just got my last lab results after one year. To my surprise and satisfaction DHEA-S level has increased 4.5 fold, re-entering the range despite on the low side (69.2 mcg/dl, ref. range: 50-377). Level of T and freeT also increased while DTH (watched for my prostate condition) and E2 are well under control.

 

I wonder if you can challenge the following tentative explications, probably in that order of priority:

1. A more regular strength (and aerobic) training program
2. A rise in cholesterol
3. An almost "homeopathic" supplementation (2x25mg per week!)