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Which nootropic(s) would suit my diet?

ritalin nootropics beginner supplements choline studying stack diet

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#1 Saar Na

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 03:57 PM


Hey guys,

so I've been reading for some time posts here in this section of the site, got here from google btw.

I'm new to the whole nootropics thing, and I'm pretty much confused, lol.

I'm about to take a huge GMAT-like test, it's a very expensive, time consuming, mental health damaging test, so I'm seeking for a certain boost.

I got ADD, using ritalin for studying, not for everyday use, and I'm on a ketogenic diet and doing lots of sports (gym).

Basically, I'm eating the same 3000 calories a day, everyday and it breaks down to this:

50 gr' of walnuts (omega 3), 30gr' tehini (sesame seeds paste, lots of calcium), 15gr olive oil, 15 gr' mayonaise, 28 gr' of fat from 28% yellow cheese, 3 grams of omega *3 caps*, and 70gr' fat from 250ml heavy whipping cream - these are the fats.

as far as protein goes- it comes from a single protein shake, 200 grams of chicken breast, 4-5 whole eggs and 100 grams of yellow cheese.

and almost no carbs - hence the ketogenic title

and my supps:

multivitamin (aro-vitacost@ non-training days\animal pak @ training days), green tea extract 500mg a day 50% egcg, creatine mono, fish oil - 3 grams a day (3 caps, mega efa), glucosamine-choindroitin-msm for joints, l-tyrosine that I usually take with my ritalin, caffeine pills for night shifts\preworkout, also might take it with l-tyrosine and last would be ritalin as I already mentioned earlier this post.

so, how do I start from this point?

I wanted to get some piracetam but I don't fully understand how it will react with my ritalin, I also understand that nootropics require additional choline, but do I need really need more choline if I eat like 4-5 *whole* eggs a day?

I weight 75kg\165lbs (22 y\o), do nootropics go by bodyweight or are there universal dosages? and do I have to take them everyday or just on days I wish to study?

bottom line:

I basically need to know if there's a point in adding any 'cetam, which one (there are way too many, mentioned pira because it seems well established), what dose and how to combine it with my ritalin for it to support my studying goals

Sorry if what I ask had already been answered before, I couldn't find people with my kind of background - the diet, ritalin and supplements.

thanks in advance guys!

oh, and another sorry if the post is a bit messy\hard to understand, I don't get to practice my English very often, do read a lot but writing is a different story, ugh.



#2 Duchykins

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 06:03 PM

It is a myth that racetams require choline. It's best to start a racetam without choline to guage how much extra choline you need, if any.

Your stack emphasizes dopamine (amphetamine, fish oil, tyrosine, caffeine, green tea), perhaps something that is not significantly dopaminergic may compliment your stack.

Piracetam seems the likliest of the racetams that need to be taken regularly for a while to acheive optimal results. One or two other racetams seem better if taken irregularly. But this is a topic of much debate.
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#3 Saar Na

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 11:01 PM

so should I be looking at other 'cetams, then?

what's the difference between each one? is there a chart somewhere? I know people sometimes mix some of them together, how does that work?

and what are the 'not significantly dopaminergic' options that I got?

thanks for the reply btw!



#4 adarseer

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 03:25 AM

Didn't know each cetams were different in that way thanks for the info. 



#5 Duchykins

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 05:29 AM

so should I be looking at other 'cetams, then?
what's the difference between each one? is there a chart somewhere? I know people sometimes mix some of them together, how does that work?
and what are the 'not significantly dopaminergic' options that I got?
thanks for the reply btw!


I actually don't know of any charts. I vaguely recall some kind of spreadsheet composed by some people here in Longecity but I don't recall the name of the thread. I think someone else will have this link, though.

My guess would be for you to try piracetam or aniracetam before something like noopept or phenylpiracetam *if you otherwise leave your stack unchanged*. Noopept and phenylpiracetam are not bad but perhaps not optimal for your stack which is skewed toward increased dopamine and stimulation, those two might be too much for what you're already doing. Aniracetam does have some activity with dopamine but it tends to be more calming than stimulating, likely due to serotonogenic activity. But please keep in mind I could be very wrong here, we know very little about all of these drugs' effects and understand even less about their mechanisms. This is beside the fact that I'm no expert on what we do know.

You also have an attention deficit so you're already predisposed to respond differently to these drugs than most other people. On the other hand your dopamine receptors might be suffering the amphetamine, even if you don't use it daily but a couple times a week, and could do better with noopept or phenylpiracetam since regular use has been documented to increase dopamine receptor density. But I don't know how often you're using it. See how ridiculously complicated it is? I should probably shut up and just recommend you experiment with different ones so you can feel out which is most effective for you. A 'safe' generic answer, lol.

People stacking their racetams in the hopes of getting synergistic effects, this is highly variable. This you for sure would have to experiment with by yourself.

#6 asdfsgt

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 06:46 AM


I actually don't know of any charts. I vaguely recall some kind of spreadsheet composed by some people here in Longecity but I don't recall the name of the thread. I think someone else will have this link, though.
 

 

Here is a link to the spreadsheet:

 

https://docs.google....=CMXbgvEF#gid=0

 

Correct the .c.o.m in the link. I had some problems with the spam filter.

 

 


Edited by asdfsgt, 12 July 2014 - 06:52 AM.


#7 Saar Na

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 01:54 PM

 

so should I be looking at other 'cetams, then?
what's the difference between each one? is there a chart somewhere? I know people sometimes mix some of them together, how does that work?
and what are the 'not significantly dopaminergic' options that I got?
thanks for the reply btw!


I actually don't know of any charts. I vaguely recall some kind of spreadsheet composed by some people here in Longecity but I don't recall the name of the thread. I think someone else will have this link, though.

My guess would be for you to try piracetam or aniracetam before something like noopept or phenylpiracetam *if you otherwise leave your stack unchanged*. Noopept and phenylpiracetam are not bad but perhaps not optimal for your stack which is skewed toward increased dopamine and stimulation, those two might be too much for what you're already doing. Aniracetam does have some activity with dopamine but it tends to be more calming than stimulating, likely due to serotonogenic activity. But please keep in mind I could be very wrong here, we know very little about all of these drugs' effects and understand even less about their mechanisms. This is beside the fact that I'm no expert on what we do know.

You also have an attention deficit so you're already predisposed to respond differently to these drugs than most other people. On the other hand your dopamine receptors might be suffering the amphetamine, even if you don't use it daily but a couple times a week, and could do better with noopept or phenylpiracetam since regular use has been documented to increase dopamine receptor density. But I don't know how often you're using it. See how ridiculously complicated it is? I should probably shut up and just recommend you experiment with different ones so you can feel out which is most effective for you. A 'safe' generic answer, lol.

People stacking their racetams in the hopes of getting synergistic effects, this is highly variable. This you for sure would have to experiment with by yourself.

 

 

What I had in mind when I bought my supplements was to gain health benefits - like antioxidents from the tea, l-tyrosine to make the caffeine and ritalin last longer, omega 3 because it was just healthy, never considered them as some sort of nootropics, I think I'm going to push my O3 dose to 5 caps a day, add in some MACA, and get oxi\pira combo with extra cholin on the side for if needed, any recommended online stores? I'm asking but I'm going to search for it on the forum anyway

Any comments on Focus XT by SNS BTW? it's a proprietary blend, what's the chance of anyone that got it lab tested to see what's inside? better off getting the ingredients seperated, right? in case they're underdosing

 

 

 


I actually don't know of any charts. I vaguely recall some kind of spreadsheet composed by some people here in Longecity but I don't recall the name of the thread. I think someone else will have this link, though.
 

 

Here is a link to the spreadsheet:

 

https://docs.google....=CMXbgvEF#gid=0

 

Correct the .c.o.m in the link. I had some problems with the spam filter.

 

 

 

Thanks for the chart! really helpful



#8 Duchykins

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 03:35 PM

I don't recommend increasing the fish oil. You already take 3 grams, and although I don't know the exact EPA/DHA content of your oil because it varies by brand, but I'm betting it's enough and there is such a thing as too much fish oil. If you want more omega 3 then try upping the ALA first and see how that goes, I really like chia because it's easy to throw on almost any food, is very mild tasting and makes food texturally more interesting, and chia has other benefits. I also use a cool blend of hemp and flax with garlic, rosemary, parsley and sea salt that works as a nice savory seasoning. You could always try to get more EPA/DHA from food, I like to keep little packets of salmon around for the times when I feel too lazy to cook so salmon or cod fillets

Pira/oxi is a popular combo just remember that oxi can be a bit stimulating so try smaller doses at first. I only get my noots from two places, New Star Nootropics or Health Supplememt Wholesalers.

Proprietary blends, this is up to the user. Taking things separately is a pain for some people, and sometimes more expensive (but also could be cheaper than buying a popular expensive blend, it depends). So whether that is best depends on the patience and pocketbook of the user. My primary concerns with blends are 1) you usually don't know the exact doses of each chemical are in each dose, manufacturers rarely list them 2) if you have a problem you won't be able to isolate which chemical at which dose is the troublemaker, nor could you isolate those that do you good 3) if one of the ingredients turns out to be too much for you, there's nothing you can do about it other than throw it out, you could cut the dose but often that will give you too-small doses of the other ingredients

I personally even have trouble with multivitamins and B complexes, I've wasted so much money trying different ones it's really pathetic, so I gave up and was taking a lot of things separately for several months until I found an Albion multimineral w/o iron and very low copper, it's perfect except for a lack of a trace amount of lithium (I eat seaweed and mustard for this) and an activated B complex both from Swanson's (thank god for that company) that work well, which was a relief for me. I still take some separate vitamins, D3, K2, extra magnesium, potassium, zinc and methylcobalamin, C and E from Emerald Balance and A from certain foods I make sure to eat every day which is actually getting tiresome so I'll prob get some vit A caps soon to take with D and K.

Focus XT, ingredient wise, the only one I take from time to time is ALCAR. Unless you adjust your current stack then Focus may be too stimulating for you. I suppose you could use Focus in the place of the caffeine and tyrosine. Focus is also very cholinergic which makes it a wild card for some people. Choline bitartrate is the first ingredient listed, and it's the cheapest, so there's probably 2-3 grams of it per dose, perhaps more, so when you consider that, plus the huperzine which contains an inhibitor that slows the breakdown of acetylcholine, the acetylcholine precursor of DMAE, ALCAR, and your high choline diet, that may leave you with too much acetylcholine. But that is pure speculation, it could just as easily be exactly what you need.

#9 serp777

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 06:16 PM

You don't need choline if you eat eggs or liver. Wouldn't bother wasting money on choline. 



#10 Saar Na

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 06:35 PM

I don't recommend increasing the fish oil. You already take 3 grams, and although I don't know the exact EPA/DHA content of your oil because it varies by brand, but I'm betting it's enough and there is such a thing as too much fish oil. If you want more omega 3 then try upping the ALA first and see how that goes, I really like chia because it's easy to throw on almost any food, is very mild tasting and makes food texturally more interesting, and chia has other benefits. I also use a cool blend of hemp and flax with garlic, rosemary, parsley and sea salt that works as a nice savory seasoning. You could always try to get more EPA/DHA from food, I like to keep little packets of salmon around for the times when I feel too lazy to cook so salmon or cod fillets

Pira/oxi is a popular combo just remember that oxi can be a bit stimulating so try smaller doses at first. I only get my noots from two places, New Star Nootropics or Health Supplememt Wholesalers.

Proprietary blends, this is up to the user. Taking things separately is a pain for some people, and sometimes more expensive (but also could be cheaper than buying a popular expensive blend, it depends). So whether that is best depends on the patience and pocketbook of the user. My primary concerns with blends are 1) you usually don't know the exact doses of each chemical are in each dose, manufacturers rarely list them 2) if you have a problem you won't be able to isolate which chemical at which dose is the troublemaker, nor could you isolate those that do you good 3) if one of the ingredients turns out to be too much for you, there's nothing you can do about it other than throw it out, you could cut the dose but often that will give you too-small doses of the other ingredients

I personally even have trouble with multivitamins and B complexes, I've wasted so much money trying different ones it's really pathetic, so I gave up and was taking a lot of things separately for several months until I found an Albion multimineral w/o iron and very low copper, it's perfect except for a lack of a trace amount of lithium (I eat seaweed and mustard for this) and an activated B complex both from Swanson's (thank god for that company) that work well, which was a relief for me. I still take some separate vitamins, D3, K2, extra magnesium, potassium, zinc and methylcobalamin, C and E from Emerald Balance and A from certain foods I make sure to eat every day which is actually getting tiresome so I'll prob get some vit A caps soon to take with D and K.

Focus XT, ingredient wise, the only one I take from time to time is ALCAR. Unless you adjust your current stack then Focus may be too stimulating for you. I suppose you could use Focus in the place of the caffeine and tyrosine. Focus is also very cholinergic which makes it a wild card for some people. Choline bitartrate is the first ingredient listed, and it's the cheapest, so there's probably 2-3 grams of it per dose, perhaps more, so when you consider that, plus the huperzine which contains an inhibitor that slows the breakdown of acetylcholine, the acetylcholine precursor of DMAE, ALCAR, and your high choline diet, that may leave you with too much acetylcholine. But that is pure speculation, it could just as easily be exactly what you need.

 

I eat 1200 EPA & 600 DHA a day, good enough?

I take multivitamins because I can't really eat a lot of veggies with my schedule nor fit most of them in my diet with their macros, I'm on a very low carb diet, it does wonders with the ADD and it doesn't interfere with my workouts at all.

and about the choline, that's what I had in mind! I just thought it would be beneficial to have cholin at hand just in case I switch to a different diet or if I find myself suffering from headaches due to cholin deficiency.

I'm about to order the Oxi & Pira, I'm going to try just Pira alone, then the Oxi alone, and then see how they react together.

And ideas on how to take them? with food? all together? twice a day?

I usually take my ritalin 30 minutes prior to studying, it works for 2-3 hours before the rebound starts to kick in, I understand that I'm not really going to feel the Pira for the first 2 weeks or so, so no problem there, but is the Oxi instant-acting? like taking the piracetam twice a day, morning \ afternoon and the oxi only with the ritalin?



#11 Duchykins

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 07:55 PM

Both should be taken with water on an empty stomach, and they're commonly taken 2 or 3 times a day. How often you take them is up to you though you should know that many of them probably shouldn't be taken within 6 hours of bedtime. I personally have no real use for supplemental choline, and it looks like you won't either. I threw out choline bitartrate, lecithin, use low dose ALCAR irregularly, and stopped using low dose citicoline (Jarrow) in the mornings but I still keep it for experimental use... and because it pains me to throw out something expensive like that, lol. The bitartrate is cheap, or lecithin, so you could get some to have it around just in case.

A lot of the studies on piracetam did not have co-supplementation with cholinergics (to my knowledge) so it only seems to be a big deal in the broscience communities

Oxiracetam is mildly stimulating and you should feel it within in the hour. For me I would get a small crash like tiredness several hours after the peak. I do like it though.

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#12 Saar Na

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 03:59 AM

*BUMP*

I thought it was pointless opening another topic

so there's an update!

I have ordered the following supplements:

 L-Tyrosine -- 750 mg - 90 Capsules

Item No: 835003009541

 

h-border510.gif

 Maca Extract -- 525 mg - 200 Capsules

Item No: 835003003099

 

h-border510.gif

Vitacost Green Tea Extract - Standardized -- 500 mg - 300 Capsules

Item No: 835003005284

 

h-border510.gif

 Huperzine A - Standardized -- 200 mcg - 120 Capsules

Item No: 844197016532

 

h-border510.gif

 Mega EFA® Omega-3 EPA & DHA Fish Oil -- 2126 mg per serving - 240 Softgels

Item No: 835003005017

 

h-border510.gif

 Milk Thistle Extract - Standardized -- 600 mg per serving - 300 Capsules

Item No: 835003004409

 

h-border510.gif

 Glucosamine Chondroitin & MSM -- 360 Capsules

Item No: 835003005031

 

h-border510.gif

Universal Nutrition Animal Pak® -- 44 Packs

Item No: 039442030115

 
along with 500g piracetam,100g oxiracetam, 2 protein powders and a pocket scale!
 
ideas how to start from here? I will get them in hand by next month I suppose, how should I stack these?
and don't forget that I also got ritalin.
 
I thought of taking the pira twice a day, like 800mg each time and the huperzine a with 400mg oxi and fish oil, all together like in the morning, sounds solid?
my only concern would be a reaction with the ritalin, anything I should know of? I usually take it 30 minutes before I wish to study with l-tyrosine, like 5~ grams of it (the tyrosine of course)
 






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