30 replies to this topic

[arvcondor]

From The Verge (and it's worth reading the whole article):

 

 

Experts like Greenblatt and Cryan are still convinced that tweaking these bacteria later in life can yield profound behavioral and psychological changes. In a study led by Cryan, anxious mice dosed with the probiotic bacterium Lactobacillus rhamnosus (JB-1) showed lower levels of anxiety, decreased stress hormones, and even an increase in brain receptors for a neurotransmitter that’s vital in curbing worry, anxiety, and fear.

 

John Bienenstock, a co-author on that study, compared the probiotics’ effects to benzodiazepines like Valium and Xanax. “The similarity is intriguing. It doesn’t prove they both use the same pathway [in the brain], but it’s a possibility.”

 

 

The question obviously becomes to what extent we know which microbes produce which result. If anyone has information on this, let's start putting it in this thread.

Edited by arvcondor, 03 September 2014 - 03:52 AM.

[arvcondor]

The fact that no one cares about something like this is what often bothers me about LongeCity.

[Invariant]

Don't be sad, I like your post. Related: http://mrheisenbug.w...nges-the-brain/

[Kewell357]

I agree.

 

Probiotics greatly reduce the levels of anxiety.

 

After a few days, it feels like I am taking xanax.

[F.Marlo]

I agree.

 

Probiotics greatly reduce the levels of anxiety.

 

After a few days, it feels like I am taking xanax.

 

Which brand do you use?

[Kewell357]

 

I agree.

 

Probiotics greatly reduce the levels of anxiety.

 

After a few days, it feels like I am taking xanax.

 

Which brand do you use?

 

 

Jarrow Dophilus.

[Logic]

The fact that no one cares about something like this is what often bothers me about LongeCity.

 

I agree

Once past the stomach we are basically living on what is excreted by gut bacteria.

ie: We all live on bacteria shit!

 

You cant get much further upstream than this and you would think there would be a lot more interest in making sure that said excrement was good for you by controlling the types of bacteria living in your gut.

 

There is some info on FOS, inulin, potato starch, LKM-512 etc here, but would like to see extensive literature on getting rid of bad bacteria, creating the correct environment for good bacteria and the introduction of bacteria with interesting and novel effects like LKM-512.

 

From what I have read most bacteria in probiotics die on the shelf, while the rest are killed by stomach acid.  So getting good bacteria into the gut alive would be a good start.
 

Edited by Logic, 05 September 2014 - 10:10 PM.

[shadowhawk]

The fact that no one cares about something like this is what often bothers me about LongeCity.

 

I think it is great.  Thanks
 

[shadowhawk]

 

 

I agree.

 

Probiotics greatly reduce the levels of anxiety.

 

After a few days, it feels like I am taking xanax.

 

Which brand do you use?

 

 

Jarrow Dophilus.

 

You can make your own.  Much more powerful

[jerrybusey]

I think this field holds tremendous promise for the future but all of the numerous species and delivery methods for probiotics that I've tried have made me feel worse in the cases where I eventually felt some effect. Granted it may be too late for me since my immune system is already belligerent.  I'd love to see more research on these therapies in humans in general though.

[cats_lover]

 

 

 

I agree.

 

Probiotics greatly reduce the levels of anxiety.

 

After a few days, it feels like I am taking xanax.

 

Which brand do you use?

 

 

Jarrow Dophilus.

 

You can make your own.  Much more powerful

 

 

How to make it?

[shadowhawk]

 

 

 

 

I agree.

 

Probiotics greatly reduce the levels of anxiety.

 

After a few days, it feels like I am taking xanax.

 

Which brand do you use?

 

 

Jarrow Dophilus.

 

You can make your own.  Much more powerful

 

 

How to make it?

 

http://www.culturesforhealth.com/

 

[nickdino]

Hi y'all, just wanna add my say to this thread by saying i too have never felt any effect from probiotics like jarrow dophilus and i too am fascinated by the possibilities of optimizing or even improving oneself with gutbacteria

[Galaxyshock]

Anyone tried Dr. Ohhira's probiotic products? supposably they are superior due to fermentation methods used and also contain prebiotics, enzymes. I'm thinking about giving a try. I haven't felt effect from any common probiotic products either and wonder if the bacteria in them is even alive or absorbed.

 

Kombucha tea is another option for probiotics. I got a healthy feeling from consuming it.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 06 September 2014 - 12:52 PM.

[Metagene]

The fact that no one cares about something like this is what often bothers me about LongeCity.

Not true at all.

http://www.longecity...in-enhancement/

Lostfalco was the main man.

[cats_lover]

 

 

 

 

 

I agree.

 

Probiotics greatly reduce the levels of anxiety.

 

After a few days, it feels like I am taking xanax.

 

Which brand do you use?

 

 

Jarrow Dophilus.

 

You can make your own.  Much more powerful

 

 

How to make it?

 

http://www.culturesforhealth.com/

 

 

Cool, thanks for the link.
 

[Aurel]

These are exactly the kind of microbes which will get killed in your stomach. Sorry, but if you are looking for an effect on your gut system (and not just for a delicious meal) you really need coated microbes.

[Kewell357]

 

 

 

I agree.

 

Probiotics greatly reduce the levels of anxiety.

 

After a few days, it feels like I am taking xanax.

 

Which brand do you use?

 

 

Jarrow Dophilus.

 

You can make your own.  Much more powerful

 

 

Will check out the link you provided.

I suffer from Idiopathic gastroparesis and that's probably why the probiotics are so powerful for me.

[YoungSchizo]

I have a thread on this..

 

I'm still taking Green Defense, the superb effects it had on me when starting with it slowly started to faint, though, it still has a great effect on my mood in general and I have a very healthy working gut on Green Defense!

 

(I'm gonna try other brands in the future) 

[dudmuck]

Keep in mind that 70% of your immune system is in your intestinal linings.   With that in mind, immune support can help keep the bad stuff at bay so the good stuff can flourish.   Knowing if you're th1 dominant or th2 dominant can help.  Such as that "Green Defense" mentioned has stuff for th1 dominant people.  Chinese herbs like astragalus has been shown to help gut flora, and Japanese mushrooms such as mitake.

[arvcondor]

Keep in mind that 70% of your immune system is in your intestinal linings.   With that in mind, immune support can help keep the bad stuff at bay so the good stuff can flourish.   Knowing if you're th1 dominant or th2 dominant can help.  Such as that "Green Defense" mentioned has stuff for th1 dominant people.  Chinese herbs like astragalus has been shown to help gut flora, and Japanese mushrooms such as mitake.

 

So this is exactly what I'm trying to figure out in this thread: How do we figure out which microbes do which things for which people? 

[StevesPetRat]

The fact that no one cares about something like this is what often bothers me about LongeCity.

No offense, but I would think most serious members are aware of this. And the ones who aren't/don't care are the Limitless/video game crowd who think you can just "boost your stats" by taking enough pills.

So this is exactly what I'm trying to figure out in this thread: How do we figure out which microbes do which things for which people?

If you're really into it, Metametrix has a functional GI panel that tells you quite a lot about what's going on in your gut, including the bacteria there.
This page discusses two possible tests: http://scdlifestyle....ting-done-asap/

As to probiotics etc... I will post back here in a month or so when my notes are complete. There's a sh!tload (ha!) to consider. Lipopolysaccharides, histamine, butyrate, acetate, d-lactate, oxalate, roughly in order of import, and probably more...

Edit: if you want to get started on the first and probably most important of these, you can supplement with lactoferrin and xylitol.

Edited by StevesPetRat, 12 September 2014 - 01:04 AM.

[eon]

great thread. I figured someone already started one. I just started taking some probiotic with 15 strains. It's still my first day so I'm hoping to feel it working soon. Anyone here know of a probiotic with more than 15 strains?

[arvcondor]

great thread. I figured someone already started one. I just started taking some probiotic with 15 strains. It's still my first day so I'm hoping to feel it working soon. Anyone here know of a probiotic with more than 15 strains?

 

This is actually what I'm suspicious of, i.e., the idea that more strains = better probiotic. It seems like specific balances of strains can achieve specific affects, and for specific people. The Verge article mentioned that when the gut microbes of rats were switched, they took on those rats' characteristics. So it may be that you have to find whatever your specific microbe composition is an match accordingly (which might be tough if you're gut is already somehow compromised and not in optimal function), or it could be that one rat had great behavior and the other was in poor shape solely because of the objective qualities of the bugs inside. 

 

I've had the same thought in the past that the best probiotic was the most diverse one, but I'm not sure if that's true.

[Logic]

 

The fact that no one cares about something like this is what often bothers me about LongeCity.

No offense, but I would think most serious members are aware of this. And the ones who aren't/don't care are the Limitless/video game crowd who think you can just "boost your stats" by taking enough pills.

So this is exactly what I'm trying to figure out in this thread: How do we figure out which microbes do which things for which people?

If you're really into it, Metametrix has a functional GI panel that tells you quite a lot about what's going on in your gut, including the bacteria there.
This page discusses two possible tests: http://scdlifestyle....ting-done-asap/

As to probiotics etc... I will post back here in a month or so when my notes are complete. There's a sh!tload (ha!) to consider. Lipopolysaccharides, histamine, butyrate, acetate, d-lactate, oxalate, roughly in order of import, and probably more...

Edit: if you want to get started on the first and probably most important of these, you can supplement with lactoferrin and xylitol.

 

 

I'm looking forward to your post.

Do you have strains like LKM-512 in your notes?  There may be other novel bacteria that produce interesting substances in the gut.

 

Non of these are going to be worth a damn if the bacteria have all died on the shelf, in the stomach, or don't care for the environment in the gut and die where they should be flourishing? 
 

[StevesPetRat]

I'm looking forward to your post.
Do you have strains like LKM-512 in your notes? There may be other novel bacteria that produce interesting substances in the gut.

Non of these are going to be worth a damn if the bacteria have all died on the shelf, in the stomach, or don't care for the environment in the gut and die where they should be flourishing?

Yeah, I've found several of the proprietary strains, from simple ones like Align to (thanks to that thread) LKM512. One other issue that I didn't mention was how critical gene expression is, e.g. the H2S producing gene in otherwise "good guys" like lactobacilli, as it is highly inflammatory and blocks the colonic metabolism of SCFA. And don't forget that diet can rapidly alter bacterial populations: http://www.nature.co...ature12820.html

I think any good probiotic ought to be refrigerated and enteric coated, as only a few species readily survive stomach acid (of course, any species must survive in at least tiny quantities to colonize the gut in the first place).

Sigh, so much to do...

[Edogawa Rampo]

http://www.longecity...rm-your-health/

[arvcondor]

http://www.longecity...rm-your-health/

 

Interesting. So as per my post above, maybe the right way to nourish your own bacteria is just to load up on prebiotics instead of trying to pop the right probiotic pill?

[eon]

which is why probiotics are "billions" so that atleast some make it, right? I take mines on an empty stomach first thing upon waking up.

 

 

I'm looking forward to your post.
Do you have strains like LKM-512 in your notes? There may be other novel bacteria that produce interesting substances in the gut.

Non of these are going to be worth a damn if the bacteria have all died on the shelf, in the stomach, or don't care for the environment in the gut and die where they should be flourishing?

Yeah, I've found several of the proprietary strains, from simple ones like Align to (thanks to that thread) LKM512. One other issue that I didn't mention was how critical gene expression is, e.g. the H2S producing gene in otherwise "good guys" like lactobacilli, as it is highly inflammatory and blocks the colonic metabolism of SCFA. And don't forget that diet can rapidly alter bacterial populations: http://www.nature.co...ature12820.html

I think any good probiotic ought to be refrigerated and enteric coated, as only a few species readily survive stomach acid (of course, any species must survive in at least tiny quantities to colonize the gut in the first place).

Sigh, so much to do...

 

 

[sparkk51]

I get a feeling that because we've already been exposed to so many strains of bacteria in our life time that finding any particular probiotics isn't the issue.