LONGECITY

In experience, pitolisant and connesine, either or, work very well in combination with dopamine reuptake inhibitors;flowering quince or catuaba....

Also ROSMARINIC ACID; a natural GABA transaminase inhibitor, coupled with flowering quince and either pitolisant or conessine is even better!

Thioperamide would be an amazing compound, mainly because it has anti-inflammatory and pro-cognitive effects...

Unfortunately , not only is the compound tough to get, but there are H4R's in the testis too, who knows what the effects would be long-term....it's all about WHERE THE RECEPTORS ARE DISTRIBUTED IN THE BODY AND CNS.

Always remember that. That's the key to neurology, biology and to understanding neuro-pharmacological cures, enhancements and treatments.

Honestly , how many people check over the convenience of saying, "X does this, y does this" - whereas accurate science is protruded by a similar vibe to this ;

" X can do this, in this instance, because X is located here and here and this correlates with Y, Y is here Y interacts with"

 

- it may be more complex to see it this way, and certainly more inconvenient for people who are slow-learners, but would you rather get an accurate picture or be stuffed in bro-science and under-estimated approaches?

Great blog! I have learned alot from it!

I am high in histamine and try to lower it. I wonder where i can buy a h3 receptor supplement (i am living in the Netherlands), does anyone have an idea?

Great blog! I have learned alot from it!

I am high in histamine and try to lower it. I wonder where i can buy a h3 receptor supplement (i am living in the Netherlands), does anyone have an idea?

An H3 agonist or antagonist?

Antagonist (lowering)

Antagonist (lowering)

An antagonist would raise histamine, because the H3 receptors regulate histamine - so blocking them does the opposite effect - it would raise (increase) histamine. 

Okay so i need a agonist then?

Okay so i need a agonist then?

You don't want to lower histamine excessively either, I would just use L-Methionine, Creatine, Rosemarinic acid with butterbur extract..that's usually sufficient to lower histamine....what symptoms do you have? How high is your histamine?

Usually if it's above 160 ng it can be dangerous and cause low blood pressure and chronic allergic response..but at the same time , you need histamine at least between 40-70 , depending on the reference range and what you are exposed to - so that blood pressure doesn't go too high either.

You also need histamine for sanity, but too much can have the opposite effect, of course.

Do the Methiionine amino acid, creatine, rosemarinic acid/butterbur (by life extension) - pursuing an agonist of the H3R might be a waste of time because those receptors, though they decrease histamine, tend to downregulate over time in response to agonism...

Butterbur is scary though, doesn't it contain a cancer causing compound? I've seen ones that remove it, but it still freaks me out.

Butterbur is scary though, doesn't it contain a cancer causing compound? I've seen ones that remove it, but it still freaks me out.

I've used it several times long ago, no side-effects...I doubt the compound is concentrated enough, if it was, it would be taken off the market...therefore must only be speculation or conjecture, at best.

What's with all the rep spamming?

Kinda weird, but any other thoughts on this article people?

 

Okay so i need a agonist then?

You don't want to lower histamine excessively either, I would just use L-Methionine, Creatine, Rosemarinic acid with butterbur extract..that's usually sufficient to lower histamine....what symptoms do you have? How high is your histamine?

Usually if it's above 160 ng it can be dangerous and cause low blood pressure and chronic allergic response..but at the same time , you need histamine at least between 40-70 , depending on the reference range and what you are exposed to - so that blood pressure doesn't go too high either.

You also need histamine for sanity, but too much can have the opposite effect, of course.

Do the Methiionine amino acid, creatine, rosemarinic acid/butterbur (by life extension) - pursuing an agonist of the H3R might be a waste of time because those receptors, though they decrease histamine, tend to downregulate over time in response to agonism...

 

Thanks for the tips Area-1255! My histamine was a few months ago 800.

So only the methionine amino acid? Or all amino acids? I know histidine gets converted to histamine thus i don't need that one.

 

 

Okay so i need a agonist then?

You don't want to lower histamine excessively either, I would just use L-Methionine, Creatine, Rosemarinic acid with butterbur extract..that's usually sufficient to lower histamine....what symptoms do you have? How high is your histamine?

Usually if it's above 160 ng it can be dangerous and cause low blood pressure and chronic allergic response..but at the same time , you need histamine at least between 40-70 , depending on the reference range and what you are exposed to - so that blood pressure doesn't go too high either.

You also need histamine for sanity, but too much can have the opposite effect, of course.

Do the Methiionine amino acid, creatine, rosemarinic acid/butterbur (by life extension) - pursuing an agonist of the H3R might be a waste of time because those receptors, though they decrease histamine, tend to downregulate over time in response to agonism...

 

 

Thanks for the tips Area-1255! My histamine was a few months ago 800.

So only the methionine amino acid? Or all amino acids? I know histidine gets converted to histamine thus i don't need that one.

 

Methionine, creatine, and life-extension's Rosemarinic acid plus butterbur extract. Just those three supplements.

Adding green tea extract (50% EGCG) would help very much as well. 

did anybody read my virtual book on histamine yet?

It's longer than area's "articles".

did anybody read my virtual book on histamine yet?

 

It's longer than area's "articles".

It's a good book - but mods are strictly against paid forms of advertising without being a sponsor - so I think that's where someone would have some reserve in promoting your initial marketing. 

Also, histamine articles are vast, but mine cover it in a more, easy to understand manner.

what would be  good example of an h3 agonist...something that lowers histamine?

what would be  good example of an h3 agonist...something that lowers histamine?

http://en.wikipedia....Methylhistamine

Can't really obtain it anywhere though. 

Here's an interesting article/study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9352856

If this applies everywhere else, and not just in G.I - then H1 blockade plus H3 activation could lead to rapid increases in muscle mass.

 

Gastroenterology. 1997 Nov;113(5):1545-52.

Histamine, acting via H3 receptors, inhibits somatostatin and stimulates acid secretion in isolated mouse stomach.

Vuyyuru L1, Schubert ML.

Author information

 

Abstract

BACKGROUND & AIMS:

The role of histamine H3 receptors in the regulation of gastric acid secretion is unclear. The present study was designed to characterize the location of H3 receptors in the fundus of the stomach and the mechanism by which these receptors regulate acid secretion.

METHODS:

Acid, somatostatin, and histamine secretions were measured in the isolated mouse stomach.

RESULTS:

Thioperamide (H3 antagonist) increased somatostatin and decreased histamine and acid secretion in a concentration-dependent manner. ®-alpha-Methylhistamine (H3 agonist) had the opposite effect, decreasing somatostatin and increasing histamine and acid secretion. The pattern implies that endogenous histamine, acting via H3 receptors, exerts an inhibitory paracrine influence on somatostatin secretion. Somatostatin antibody increased basal histamine secretion and abolished the decrease in histamine and acid secretion induced by thioperamide, confirming that changes in histamine and acid secretion induced by the activation of H3 receptors reflected changes in somatostatin secretion. Similar effects were obtained when acid secretion was stimulated by histamine: thioperamide augmented somatostatin and thus inhibited acid secretion, and ®-alpha-methylhistamine attenuated somatostatin and increased acid secretion.

CONCLUSIONS:

Reciprocal inhibitory paracrine pathways link histamine and somatostatin cells in the gastric fundus. Histamine, acting via H3 receptors, augments acid secretion by eliminating the inhibitory influence of somatostatin.

Comment in

• Histamine H3 receptors and gastric acid secretion. [Gastroenterology. 1998]
• The relevance of luminal release is doubtful. [Gastroenterology. 1998]

PMID:   9352856   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

Can't really obtain it anywhere though. 

Here's an interesting article/study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9352856

 

If this applies everywhere else, and not just in G.I - then H1 blockade plus H3 activation could lead to rapid increases in muscle mass.

 

Gastroenterology. 1997 Nov;113(5):1545-52.

Histamine, acting via H3 receptors, inhibits somatostatin and stimulates acid secretion in isolated mouse stomach.

Vuyyuru L1, Schubert ML.

Author information

 

Abstract

BACKGROUND & AIMS:

The role of histamine H3 receptors in the regulation of gastric acid secretion is unclear. The present study was designed to characterize the location of H3 receptors in the fundus of the stomach and the mechanism by which these receptors regulate acid secretion.

METHODS:

Acid, somatostatin, and histamine secretions were measured in the isolated mouse stomach.

RESULTS:

Thioperamide (H3 antagonist) increased somatostatin and decreased histamine and acid secretion in a concentration-dependent manner. ®-alpha-Methylhistamine (H3 agonist) had the opposite effect, decreasing somatostatin and increasing histamine and acid secretion. The pattern implies that endogenous histamine, acting via H3 receptors, exerts an inhibitory paracrine influence on somatostatin secretion. Somatostatin antibody increased basal histamine secretion and abolished the decrease in histamine and acid secretion induced by thioperamide, confirming that changes in histamine and acid secretion induced by the activation of H3 receptors reflected changes in somatostatin secretion. Similar effects were obtained when acid secretion was stimulated by histamine: thioperamide augmented somatostatin and thus inhibited acid secretion, and ®-alpha-methylhistamine attenuated somatostatin and increased acid secretion.

CONCLUSIONS:

Reciprocal inhibitory paracrine pathways link histamine and somatostatin cells in the gastric fundus. Histamine, acting via H3 receptors, augments acid secretion by eliminating the inhibitory influence of somatostatin.

Comment in

• Histamine H3 receptors and gastric acid secretion. [Gastroenterology. 1998]
• The relevance of luminal release is doubtful. [Gastroenterology. 1998]

PMID:   9352856   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

I wonder if Pitolisant would have the same effects? Sounds pretty rad.

 

 

Can't really obtain it anywhere though. 

Here's an interesting article/study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9352856

 

If this applies everywhere else, and not just in G.I - then H1 blockade plus H3 activation could lead to rapid increases in muscle mass.

 

Gastroenterology. 1997 Nov;113(5):1545-52.

Histamine, acting via H3 receptors, inhibits somatostatin and stimulates acid secretion in isolated mouse stomach.

Vuyyuru L1, Schubert ML.

Author information

 

Abstract

BACKGROUND & AIMS:

The role of histamine H3 receptors in the regulation of gastric acid secretion is unclear. The present study was designed to characterize the location of H3 receptors in the fundus of the stomach and the mechanism by which these receptors regulate acid secretion.

METHODS:

Acid, somatostatin, and histamine secretions were measured in the isolated mouse stomach.

RESULTS:

Thioperamide (H3 antagonist) increased somatostatin and decreased histamine and acid secretion in a concentration-dependent manner. ®-alpha-Methylhistamine (H3 agonist) had the opposite effect, decreasing somatostatin and increasing histamine and acid secretion. The pattern implies that endogenous histamine, acting via H3 receptors, exerts an inhibitory paracrine influence on somatostatin secretion. Somatostatin antibody increased basal histamine secretion and abolished the decrease in histamine and acid secretion induced by thioperamide, confirming that changes in histamine and acid secretion induced by the activation of H3 receptors reflected changes in somatostatin secretion. Similar effects were obtained when acid secretion was stimulated by histamine: thioperamide augmented somatostatin and thus inhibited acid secretion, and ®-alpha-methylhistamine attenuated somatostatin and increased acid secretion.

CONCLUSIONS:

Reciprocal inhibitory paracrine pathways link histamine and somatostatin cells in the gastric fundus. Histamine, acting via H3 receptors, augments acid secretion by eliminating the inhibitory influence of somatostatin.

Comment in

• Histamine H3 receptors and gastric acid secretion. [Gastroenterology. 1998]
• The relevance of luminal release is doubtful. [Gastroenterology. 1998]

PMID:   9352856   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

I wonder if Pitolisant would have the same effects? Sounds pretty rad.

 

Pitolisant would be opposite; but I would expect higher testosterone levels with long-term use....

...then histamine incites inflammation and creates stress

This thread is AMAZINGLY interesting to me! I've been recently diagnosed with Mast Cell Activation Syndrome  and am trying to learn more about histamine, not only because I have very limited knowledge on the subject but because it seems that so do my doctors, LOL.

So many things mentioned in this thread are fascinating!!!

I think I've had mast cell issues for a long time, although being only mildly symptomatic (sensitivity to light, mild pruritus when exercising in the cold, etc) but when I started taking the birth control pill 5 years ago, everything went to hell.

Before that I think my body must have been writing a beautiful symphony of hormones and neurotransmitters for me, as happiness came easily to me, never experiencing anxiety much, loving people, high libido, having almost endless supplies of energy and stamina, being even keeled (was never PMSing), very high pain threshold and the embodiment of grace under pressure. I had a sharp mind and could quickly see the multiple ramifications of a situation as it occurred.

Reading the vassopressin posts made me laugh because one of my business was running a fetish shop and organizing fetish themed balls.

After the BC, I had no energy, brain fog so thick I couldn't even play videogames, riddled with unexplainable anxiety and depression, having debilitating pain, basically becoming the opposite of what I had been. Social  interractions became almost unbearable, I would have to constantly ask myself "what would I normally say or do right now?"

I'm trying to learn more about histamines, hoping I can go back to what I once was. Already I'm doing much better, following a low histamine diet and identifying and avoiding triggers. The thing that helped me the most was to stop exercising!

It's fascinating to see how I react to nootropics depending on the day. Sometimes taking modafinil will "fix" me for a few hours, another time I will take it and it makes me worse. Same thing with kratom, which I love when it works because it takes the pain away, gives me energy and helps me focus, but I guess as mentioned in this thread, opioids being a histamine releaser, sometimes taking kratom will make my histamine vase overflow and I get the opposite of what I am looking for.

My problem right now is that I have trouble understanding the studies I am reading on histamine because I am but a layman when it comes to neurotransmitters, etc.

My doctor wants me to take H1 and H2 anti-histamine everyday but not only do they not do much for my main issues (anxiety, brain fog, lack of energy, and extreme edema, i.e. the clothes I wore before a shower will no longer fit after the shower) and when I mentioned this to him (he is considered an allergy specialist here in Montreal) he replied that those issues were not related to histamine, which seems uneducated to me from what I am reading so far.

So I am trying to learn more about histamine receptors through the current brain fog and see what I can do to speed up the process of getting back to my life! Any advice or information appreciated!

Oooh, forgive the long post, I got carried away and didn't re-read before posting!

This thread is AMAZINGLY interesting to me! I've been recently diagnosed with Mast Cell Activation Syndrome  and am trying to learn more about histamine, not only because I have very limited knowledge on the subject but because it seems that so do my doctors, LOL.

So many things mentioned in this thread are fascinating!!!

I think I've had mast cell issues for a long time, although being only mildly symptomatic (sensitivity to light, mild pruritus when exercising in the cold, etc) but when I started taking the birth control pill 5 years ago, everything went to hell.



Reading the vassopressin posts made me laugh because one of my business was running a fetish shop and organizing fetish themed balls.

After the BC, I had no energy, brain fog so thick I couldn't even play videogames, riddled with unexplainable anxiety and depression, having debilitating pain, basically becoming the opposite of what I had been. Social  interractions became almost unbearable, I would have to constantly ask myself "what would I normally say or do right now?"

I'm trying to learn more about histamines, hoping I can go back to what I once was. Already I'm doing much better, following a low histamine diet and identifying and avoiding triggers. The thing that helped me the most was to stop exercising!

It's fascinating to see how I react to nootropics depending on the day. Sometimes taking modafinil will "fix" me for a few hours, another time I will take it and it makes me worse. Same thing with kratom, which I love when it works because it takes the pain away, gives me energy and helps me focus, but I guess as mentioned in this thread, opioids being a histamine releaser, sometimes taking kratom will make my histamine vase overflow and I get the opposite of what I am looking for.

My problem right now is that I have trouble understanding the studies I am reading on histamine because I am but a layman when it comes to neurotransmitters, etc.

My doctor wants me to take H1 and H2 anti-histamine everyday but not only do they not do much for my main issues (anxiety, brain fog, lack of energy, and extreme edema, i.e. the clothes I wore before a shower will no longer fit after the shower) and when I mentioned this to him (he is considered an allergy specialist here in Montreal) he replied that those issues were not related to histamine, which seems uneducated to me from what I am reading so far.

So I am trying to learn more about histamine receptors through the current brain fog and see what I can do to speed up the process of getting back to my life! Any advice or information appreciated!

Oooh, forgive the long post, I got carried away and didn't re-read before posting!

Lucky for you, endocrinology is an area I'm most familiar with..

First of all, it is true that women tend to be prone to higher histamine to men; especially when on the pill or in a state of estrogen-dominance - estrogen has the action of actually increasing not just histamine production but also upregulating (increasing the amount of) histamine receptors of the H1 type; those are the ones responsible for asthma and pruritis and itching disorders...

The catch is that although histamine contributes as a part of the whole balancing act in fluid distribution - estrogen has separate effects that have nothing to do with histamine as well.....

In terms of libido and such, you could ask your doc to switch you to a combined testosterone + estrogen pill that may be less dampering on your libido - alternatively, you can get off the pill entirely and advise partner/partners to use protection...of course that doesn't always work out, lol.

I do not advise nor recommend the use of pharmaceutical anti histamines - as they tend to just worsen a lot of issues or worse yet, CAUSE new cognitive / hormonal issues to appear !

Your best bet may be to continue eating a "low histamine" diet, and adding a butterbur/rosemarinic acid supplement may help..there's one by life extension products which tends to cool allergies, anxiety and it also may actually help improve memory as it doesn't obliterate histamine or block the receptors - it merely stops your mast cells from over-reacting due to stress or hormone influence etc

I'm not sure of all the laws over there in Montreal, but You should consider discussing pill alternatives or at least combined testosterone;estrogen in the women's ratio!

Feel free to contact me for more advice via PM here,...

~JAY

...you'll definitely want to hang out at, http://thelowhistaminechef.com/. Yasmina was diagnosed with same and figured it out. You can and will too.

...you'll definitely want to hang out at, http://thelowhistaminechef.com/. Yasmina was diagnosed with same and figured it out. You can and will too.

It is one of the first places I found and there is a lot of very useful information indeed. I bought two of her books and was disappointed. Some information (and in the case of her Beauty Survival Guide none that I hadn't already found on the internet) buried under so much anecdotes you'd think you had purchased a bio. The fact that the books were pdfs that I couldn't put on my Nook, sold directly on her website for the same price you'd usually pay a real book on amazon didn't make me appreciate the overabundance of anecdotes and abundant typos, I guess. But yes the website is golden.

Do you have issues with histamine as well? You seem to know a whole lot about it!

Lucky for you, endocrinology is an area I'm most familiar with..

 

First of all, it is true that women tend to be prone to higher histamine to men; especially when on the pill or in a state of estrogen-dominance - estrogen has the action of actually increasing not just histamine production but also upregulating (increasing the amount of) histamine receptors of the H1 type; those are the ones responsible for asthma and pruritis and itching disorders...

 

The catch is that although histamine contributes as a part of the whole balancing act in fluid distribution - estrogen has separate effects that have nothing to do with histamine as well.....

 

In terms of libido and such, you could ask your doc to switch you to a combined testosterone + estrogen pill that may be less dampering on your libido - alternatively, you can get off the pill entirely and advise partner/partners to use protection...of course that doesn't always work out, lol.

 

I do not advise nor recommend the use of pharmaceutical anti histamines - as they tend to just worsen a lot of issues or worse yet, CAUSE new cognitive / hormonal issues to appear !

 

Your best bet may be to continue eating a "low histamine" diet, and adding a butterbur/rosemarinic acid supplement may help..there's one by life extension products which tends to cool allergies, anxiety and it also may actually help improve memory as it doesn't obliterate histamine or block the receptors - it merely stops your mast cells from over-reacting due to stress or hormone influence etc

 

I'm not sure of all the laws over there in Montreal, but You should consider discussing pill alternatives or at least combined testosterone;estrogen in the women's ratio!

 

Feel free to contact me for more advice via PM here,...

 

~JAY

 

Oh yeah, I stopped the BC a while ago. No contraception is worth this! I had the same issues as a teenager, I guess hormonal changes exacerbate this. But at least I'll be well equiped come menopause to deal with this

My doctor recommended a daily regimen of antihistamine but I'm with you and decided against it. I'm not against medication but will take it (especially if it has to be daily) only after having exhausted all natural possibilities.

I did not know about butterbur/rosemarinic acid, will read up on it.

Right now I'm taking Quercetain w/Bromelain, a LOT of holy basil, collagen gelatin (for it's anti-inflammatory properties), Reishi, Tianeptine (some anecdotal anti-histamine properties plus it helps with the histamine depression), Schizandra, sublingual B12, topical Magnesium and lots and lots of vitamin C.

Am thinking of adding Ashwagandha and Bacopa.

It's great that you know endochrinology! I read two or three books about hormones (one on estrogen dominance) when I thought maybe I had an early menopause. I am taking progesterone cream 14 days a month and it helps.

Anyway, I wrote publicly what I thought might help someone else with those issues and will leave the rest for a PM, THANK YOU so much for offering to shed some light on these issues, they are fascinating and although I'm learning so much, but I cannot tell you how much I appreciate to have some help on the matter!
 

Forgot to say I also started 2g myo-inositol to see if it helps with the anxiety. Mon amoureux (loosely translated it means the one I'm in love with, because I hate the banality of boyfriend) takes creatine for his workouts, I'll give it a try to lower histamine.