5 replies to this topic

[Adaptogen]

Over the past year my father has experienced several times, what we think is likely a gallbladder attack.

He describes the pain as radiating from his back to his stomach.
At one point, we feared it may have been something worse, but a ER visit (leading to a nuclear stress test, chest x-rays, and a battery of other tests) led us to conclude that it is not anything more serious.
However, I don't think he was ever actually given a diagnosis, as is frequently the case with emergency room visits. There may have been some indication of gallbladder trouble, but no in-depth tests were performed.
 

So, are there any effective treatments for gallstones and gallbladder issuses, outside of cholecystectomy/removal?

And also ( i'm not expecting much here, without posting blood analysis results) does anyone have any alternative suggestions for what might be causing such bad pain?

and lastly, is there any reason why i wouldn't want to supplement him with a product like this?- http://www.amazon.co.../dp/B0013OSHHK/
I ask this because high dose ursodeoxycholic acid seems to increase mortality rather significantly, so i'm not sure how the other bile acids may effect overall health.

Edited by Adaptogen, 03 November 2014 - 10:33 PM.

[xEva]

high dose ursodeoxycholic acid seems to increase mortality rather significantly,

Interesting, I did not know that. Mind sharing where this info is from?

I was interested in TUDCA, or tauro- ursodeoxycholic acid, the main component of bear bile, long used in Chinese medicine(TUDCA has long been synthesized and is now sold as powder, so no bears are killed).

Also, what is considered a high dose? When I took a quick look at TUDCA, I saw a paper where people were given about a gram daily. The Jarrow supplement lists TUDCA as the least component in 945 mg of bovine/ovine bile mix.

[Adaptogen]

i was just basing it on the information in the UDCA wikipedia page: 

"In double the recommended daily dose ursodeoxycholic acid reduces elevated liver enzyme levels in those with primary sclerosing cholangitis, but its use was associated with an increased risk of serious adverse events (the development of cirrhosis, varices, death or liver transplantation) in patients who received ursodeoxycholic acid compared with those who received placebo). The risk was 2.1 times greater for death, transplantation, or minimal listing criteria in patients on ursodeoxycholic acid than for those on placebo. Serious adverse events, were more common in the ursodeoxycholic acid group than the placebo group.^{[Pubmed reference]"}

that bile bear wikipedia page is gruesome though- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile_bear

Edited by Adaptogen, 03 November 2014 - 11:20 PM.

[xEva]

Thanks, but why are you concerned with mortality due to ursodeoxycholic acid (UDCA), if the supplement contains tauro-ursodeoxycholic acid (TUDCA)? In my understanding that addition of taurine makes it a somewhat different compound. In that ref, they used UDCA in the study of very sick people, while TUDCA has been in use in Chinese medicine for centuries.

But yeah, I looked up in my notes and I did note there that 1.5 g is the max dose (of TUDCA!) to be used, though I did not write the ref for it (nor am I planning to take more than 250-500 mg, just to try it out).

And sorry for the bears, though I'll not look into that gruesome page; it will upset me. And why, if the compound is widely available for affordable price?


And I forgot to say before that I'm sorry about your dad, but I don't know much about his condition. In my understanding, if the pain is caused by gallbladder indeed, that Jarrow supplement should help. ..and I would not worry about that tiny bit of TUDCA in it.

[tunt01]

mwestbro previously mentioned his experience with reversing gallstones here.  Exercise is also very good at helping to reverse gallstone/gallbladder issues

 

 

[shp5]

please don't stone me for suggesting this, but maybe you can find someone that does manual visceral therapy (or visceral manipulation). In Europe it's mostly done by Osteopaths. I don't have experience treating patients with gallstones, but I know from my own work as a manual therapist how bad mobility of the liver can influence surrounding structures. If there is some improvement to be had, it should be noticeable after 1 or 2 treatments, so it won't bleed his wallet too much.

Edited by shp5, 04 November 2014 - 09:06 PM.