40 replies to this topic

[StevesPetRat]

Hey old hats. Took my first shot at C60oo homebrewing recently. Please let me know if I'm doing it wrong. (Yeah probably would've been better to ask before potentially flushing over $100 down the drain)
1) order 1 g 99.95% C60 from SESRES
2) buy 1 L and 500 ml bottles of unfiltered California EVOO (dark green bottles)
3) Grind up C60 in mortar and pestle
4) Add ~ 600 mg to 1 L bottle and 300 mg to 500 mL bottle (probably 100 mg "spillage")
5) Store in cool dark place
6) Shake vigorously 1-3 times a day
7) Sonicate in 1kW ultrasonic cleaner every couple days until warm (1 hr or so)
8) Repeat for 1 month (currently in week 3)
9) Start megadosing

Any input as to the efficacy of this recipe would be appreciated. Thanks.

Edit: should I filter it before use?

Edited by StevesPetRat, 18 December 2014 - 07:17 PM.

[sthira]

Your method appears similar to mine: 0.5/g 99.95 SES C60 poured into 750 ml olive oil. I don't bother with grinding it as it seems to waste it. I leave it alone in the dark -- maybe shake it up a few times a day -- for a month. I don't sonicate. About a month later, I shine a cat toy laser into it to see if there are unresolved particles. Pretty low tech. I don't filter it before use.

[niner]

My preference would be to start with filtered olive oil. What you want is the lipids, not the solids. The solids might not hurt, but they might absorb c60 or might even cause some sort of side reaction. They're just another variable.  They also complicate the visual analysis of the reaction.   If you have filtering equipment, you could filter before you add the c60. I'm leery of sonication. It might be fine, but sonication can also induce chemical reactions that wouldn't happen in the absence of sonication. It's another variable, and the vast majority of people aren't doing it. I'd recommend grinding. Yes, you do lose a little, but unless you have a good magnetic stirrer, it will take forever to fully react if you don't grind it.  If you're careful, you really don't lose that much.  I would weigh the c60 after grinding, not before.  You could even do both, then you'd know exactly how much you lost.

[StevesPetRat]

Thanks both for the input. On the next batch I will
1) Use extra-light olive oil, should be pretty pure lipids
2) Grind more
3) Actually measure stuff
4) Sonicate less
5) Shake more and be patient for the month or so it all takes to dissolve.

[niner]

5) Shake more and be patient for the month or so it all takes to dissolve.

 

If you grind the c60, it shouldn't take long to dissolve, unless you try to make a very concentrated formulation.  If you're under about 0.7 mg/ml, it shouldn't take long at all.

[StevesPetRat]

If you grind the c60, it shouldn't take long to dissolve, unless you try to make a very concentrated formulation. If you're under about 0.7 mg/ml, it shouldn't take long at all.

Do you think mortar and pestle is the best way to grind? I was thinking about crushing it between two sheets of glass instead.

[Turnbuckle]

I question 6, 7, and 9. 

 

You can buy 1.4 liter California Ranch EVOO from Walmart, and you can buy a cheap magnetic stirrer from Amazon. Grind the C60, dump it in the bottle with the magnetic stirrer, cap and stir, and you will be done in a few days with a .71 mg/ml concentration. I always filter the result, but that is probably not necessary. As for "Repeat for 1 month" and "megadosing," that depends on what you mean. If you mean to consume all that in one month, I would advise against it. I'd start with 50 mg or less and take it every week or so. Many of those who've taken it every day have seen a fading of effects, and those who've taken the most have seen the least. I'd also not sonicate, as you may be getting adducts different from those used on the rats.

[niner]

The cheap magnetic stirrers don't seem to have the gazoots to stir something as viscous as olive oil for days on end.  They tend to burn out.  One of our guys (hav) fried a bunch of hana stirrers, and eventually got a Benchmark stirrer (about $200).  I got one on his recommendation, and it has been reliable.  Regarding crushing between glass plates, I don't know.  C60 is pretty soft, so it might work, but you might want something convex so that you can concentrate more pressure on a crystal.  Some people have crushed it between two spoons.  You could probably use a glass plate and the back of a spoon, or maybe a glass rod.  Lots of ways would probably work.  Personally, I use a porcelain mortar and pestle, though I know that I lose a bit of it.  A stainless steel mortar & pestle might lose less, due to less porosity.

[blood]

Is there any danger with breathing C60 dust?

Edited by blood, 22 December 2014 - 06:26 AM.

[Adaptogen]

The cheap magnetic stirrers don't seem to have the gazoots to stir something as viscous as olive oil for days on end.  They tend to burn out.  One of our guys (hav) fried a bunch of hana stirrers, and eventually got a Benchmark stirrer (about $200).  I got one on his recommendation, and it has been reliable.  Regarding crushing between glass plates, I don't know.  C60 is pretty soft, so it might work, but you might want something convex so that you can concentrate more pressure on a crystal.  Some people have crushed it between two spoons.  You could probably use a glass plate and the back of a spoon, or maybe a glass rod.  Lots of ways would probably work.  Personally, I use a porcelain mortar and pestle, though I know that I lose a bit of it.  A stainless steel mortar & pestle might lose less, due to less porosity.

for whoever is interested, there are lots of ongoing ebay auctions for magnetic stirrers. I was able to get a new Benchmark for $40 + shipping.

 

i thought i had finally finished my first homemade batch. Ground 450mg C60 between two spoons and stirred into 750ml olive oil for a couple weeks.

however, when i shake it or hold it to the light I can still see a fair amount of undissolved c60, so I guess I might need to give it another week or so.

[Hebbeh]

 

The cheap magnetic stirrers don't seem to have the gazoots to stir something as viscous as olive oil for days on end.  They tend to burn out.  One of our guys (hav) fried a bunch of hana stirrers, and eventually got a Benchmark stirrer (about $200).  I got one on his recommendation, and it has been reliable.  Regarding crushing between glass plates, I don't know.  C60 is pretty soft, so it might work, but you might want something convex so that you can concentrate more pressure on a crystal.  Some people have crushed it between two spoons.  You could probably use a glass plate and the back of a spoon, or maybe a glass rod.  Lots of ways would probably work.  Personally, I use a porcelain mortar and pestle, though I know that I lose a bit of it.  A stainless steel mortar & pestle might lose less, due to less porosity.

for whoever is interested, there are lots of ongoing ebay auctions for magnetic stirrers. I was able to get a new Benchmark for $40 + shipping.

 

i thought i had finally finished my first homemade batch. Ground 450mg C60 between two spoons and stirred into 750ml olive oil for a couple weeks.

however, when i shake it or hold it to the light I can still see a fair amount of undissolved c60, so I guess I might need to give it another week or so.

 

 

Actual undissolved C60 or micro air bubbles from shaking it?

[Turnbuckle]

The cheap magnetic stirrers don't seem to have the gazoots to stir something as viscous as olive oil for days on end.  They tend to burn out.  One of our guys (hav) fried a bunch of hana stirrers, and eventually got a Benchmark stirrer (about $200).  I got one on his recommendation, and it has been reliable.  Regarding crushing between glass plates, I don't know.  C60 is pretty soft, so it might work, but you might want something convex so that you can concentrate more pressure on a crystal.  Some people have crushed it between two spoons.  You could probably use a glass plate and the back of a spoon, or maybe a glass rod.  Lots of ways would probably work.  Personally, I use a porcelain mortar and pestle, though I know that I lose a bit of it.  A stainless steel mortar & pestle might lose less, due to less porosity.

 

 

There does seem to be uneven quality. I've used a Hanna for a couple of years and haven't had a problem. But I'm only using it for this, cutting the power when not in use, and I use it at less than full speed. The price ranges on either side of a hundred. At Amazon, HI 190M-1 seems the most popular of that brand, with a lowest price of $86. As for crushing, a stainless mortar works very well, as it doesn't absorb the powder like ceramic.

[JohnD60]

I have had no problems with my 190M Hanna stirrer. My two cents: if you are unwilling to spend $200 on a mag stirrer and filter rig, buy it premixed.

Edited by JohnD60, 22 December 2014 - 10:27 PM.

[mait]

 

The cheap magnetic stirrers don't seem to have the gazoots to stir something as viscous as olive oil for days on end.  They tend to burn out.  One of our guys (hav) fried a bunch of hana stirrers, and eventually got a Benchmark stirrer (about $200).  I got one on his recommendation, and it has been reliable.  Regarding crushing between glass plates, I don't know.  C60 is pretty soft, so it might work, but you might want something convex so that you can concentrate more pressure on a crystal.  Some people have crushed it between two spoons.  You could probably use a glass plate and the back of a spoon, or maybe a glass rod.  Lots of ways would probably work.  Personally, I use a porcelain mortar and pestle, though I know that I lose a bit of it.  A stainless steel mortar & pestle might lose less, due to less porosity.

 

 

There does seem to be uneven quality. I've used a Hanna for a couple of years and haven't had a problem. But I'm only using it for this, cutting the power when not in use, and I use it at less than full speed. The price ranges on either side of a hundred. At Amazon, HI 190M-1 seems the most popular of that brand, with a lowest price of $86. As for crushing, a stainless mortar works very well, as it doesn't absorb the powder like ceramic.

 

 

 

I remember vaguely that You posted some time ago article that showed that iron may accelerate the oxidation of C60. Is the amount of iron getting into the mix from steel mortar a concern or not? I have been using porcelain mortar for now for just this reason to avoid the extra iron getting into the mix. Still there is some extra loss of C60 if porcelain mortar is used – so I wonder if switching to steel one is good idea after all?

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

The cheap magnetic stirrers don't seem to have the gazoots to stir something as viscous as olive oil for days on end.  They tend to burn out.  One of our guys (hav) fried a bunch of hana stirrers, and eventually got a Benchmark stirrer (about $200).  I got one on his recommendation, and it has been reliable.  Regarding crushing between glass plates, I don't know.  C60 is pretty soft, so it might work, but you might want something convex so that you can concentrate more pressure on a crystal.  Some people have crushed it between two spoons.  You could probably use a glass plate and the back of a spoon, or maybe a glass rod.  Lots of ways would probably work.  Personally, I use a porcelain mortar and pestle, though I know that I lose a bit of it.  A stainless steel mortar & pestle might lose less, due to less porosity.

 

 

There does seem to be uneven quality. I've used a Hanna for a couple of years and haven't had a problem. But I'm only using it for this, cutting the power when not in use, and I use it at less than full speed. The price ranges on either side of a hundred. At Amazon, HI 190M-1 seems the most popular of that brand, with a lowest price of $86. As for crushing, a stainless mortar works very well, as it doesn't absorb the powder like ceramic.

 

 

 

I remember vaguely that You posted some time ago article that showed that iron may accelerate the oxidation of C60. Is the amount of iron getting into the mix from steel mortar a concern or not? I have been using porcelain mortar for now for just this reason to avoid the extra iron getting into the mix. Still there is some extra loss of C60 if porcelain mortar is used – so I wonder if switching to steel one is good idea after all?

 

 

 I don't recall that, but if you can find where I posted such an article, please point it out. Anagram did go on and on about the dangers of iron at one point, but that discussion should be ignored. 

[niner]

Iron ions can engage in redox chemistry, but I'm not aware of any particularly acute iron/c60 reaction.  I really don't think you'd get enough iron out of a stainless steel mortar & pestle to do anything anyway. 

[StevesPetRat]

As for "Repeat for 1 month" and "megadosing," that depends on what you mean. If you mean to consume all that in one month, I would advise against it. I'd start with 50 mg or less and take it every week or so. Many of those who've taken it every day have seen a fading of effects, and those who've taken the most have seen the least.

I'm trying to replicate Sensei's results. I have been using a more modest 1 - 3 mL of the pre-mixed stuff daily up to this point. Might try one big dose every couple days or something. Hard to know the right thing to do.

Thanks everyone for the feedback particularly in regards to magnetic stirrers; I'll look into getting one as a Christmas present for myself, perhaps. Not too worried about oxidation from surface-to-surface contact with stainless steel.

[Heisenburger]

OK, stupid question time. Does it have to be the 99.95% variety? That’s $120 a gram. The 99.5% is $42 a gram, and the 99.9% is $65. It’s not as if the remaining 0.45 or 0.05 percent is ricin or anthrax spores or radioactive fizzlelonium, is it?

[niner]

OK, stupid question time. Does it have to be the 99.95% variety? That’s $120 a gram. The 99.5% is $42 a gram, and the 99.9% is $65. It’s not as if the remaining 0.45 or 0.05 percent is ricin or anthrax spores or radioactive fizzlelonium, is it?

 

Not stupid at all.  The remaining substance is mostly c70.  There are some c70 compounds in the literature with extremely attractive biological activities. 

[Heisenburger]

Another question then, involving magnetic stirrers. Amazon and eBay both offer a metric buttload of all different manufacturers and price levels, typically in the sub-$100 to several hundred dollar range. The general consensus from the amazon.com reviews is that anything under $200 is an iffy proposition—the cheapies tend to be somewhat ephemeral. Two hundred for a piece of lab equipment is no big deal. Even at the modest dose of two milligrams per week that I’m currently taking, the unit would pay for itself in less than three years, and I’m sure I could easily find additional nifty uses for it. Here’s the question—units with a ceramic heating element are only about $100 more. Would this confer any additional benefit? Is there any reason why I should or shouldn’t heat the stuff?

[mikeinnaples]

Here is how my last batch went:

 

1. I bought two 750ml bottles of freshly harvested, cold pressed Californian EVOO.

 

2. Poured both bottles through a double coffee filter into a 1.5L bottle mainly to remove the bulk of the EVOO particles (there is a lot in this EVOO). Poured a bit into a container to *wash* with.

 

3. Crushed my C60 between two spoons, put it in the bottle, and cleaned it the best I could with my *wash* oil to minimize what I lose from crushing.

 

4. Seal the bottle so it is air tight.

 

5. Put in a dark place and shake twice a day. There is minimal air in the bottle so I wasnt overly worried about undo oxidization.

 

6. Wait till it is bright red when light is shined through, then add a couple of extra weeks on just to make sure.

 

7. Pour into small amber bottles. (each bottle is 2 months worth)

 

8. Keep one bottle out, Freeze the rest.

 

 

Then as I need them, I unfreeze one bottle at a time.

[Turnbuckle]

I take back what I said above about California Ranch from Wal Mart. Those 1.4 liter bottles are plastic with bottoms incomparable with magnetic stirring. The oil I saw there recently was cloudy and who knows what mistreatment it's seen or how long it's been on the shelf. So I'd avoid that size and Wal Mart altogether.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 26 January 2015 - 02:17 PM.

[hav]

... Here’s the question—units with a ceramic heating element are only about $100 more. Would this confer any additional benefit? Is there any reason why I should or shouldn’t heat the stuff?

 

The likely benefit is that the c60 would react more readily with the olive oil if heat is applied. Maybe even yield higher concentrations.

 

A possible problem is that I recall seeing a paper discussed here a long while back that demonstrated how c60 formed a number of different adducts with olive oil above and below around a 98 degree F break point.  The problem being that there isn't any research on the effects of any of the high temperature adducts.  Baati and Co did all their mixing at room temperature.  My suggestion would be if you heat while stirring for personal consumption, make sure the temperature stays below 90 degrees or so. 

 

Howard

[BarrelBoy]

My first guess would be that a cd/dvd drive motor wouldn't have the power to mix olive oil, but nonetheless this looks like a fun and affordable way to obtain a mag stirrer, presuming you've got the tools.

 

 

Anyone think this or a similar DIY solution might be strong enough?

Edited by brokenyoga, 12 February 2015 - 08:31 PM.

[Heisenburger]

I’ve seen other videos using a PC cooling fan with magnets glued to it. I’m going to try it. I ordered a fan from amazon for $10, and the rest of the parts I have laying around. I don’t really expect it to work, but I’m going to give it a shot. I’m going to try making 200 milliliters, and let the contraption run for two weeks or until the motor burns out—whichever occurs first. If it burns out after a few hours or a day or so (which is what I figure will happen), I’ll just pour the mix into a Nalgene bottle, stick it on a shelf somewhere, and keep it there until I can get a good magnetic stirrer.

[Heisenburger]

As you might well imagine, the “contraption” didn’t contrapt much. It was fun putting the thing together, but it didn’t do a damned thing. I could get a vortex in a few ounces of water, but that was about it. When I tried it with a couple of ounces of vegetable oil, it just swirled around a little bit on the bottom. A drop of methylene blue just sat motionless on the surface for hours. See the YouTube video below, with about three ounces of water. A few seconds in, I add a drop of MB for effect. Oh, whee. So anyway, I broke down and bought a Benchmark stirrer off an eBay vendor. I have some reagent-grade C60 coming from SES in a couple of days. Can I push the saturation to 800 mcgs./ml? I want to simulate the stuff from carbon60oliveoil.com, because it makes the math easier. I want to dissolve 400 mgs. of C60 in 500 millilters of Target store brand extra light olive oil. I want to take ten mgs. of C60 once a week, every Sunday. That works out to 12.5 milliliters, which will be easy to measure with a syringe, transfer pipette, or even just eyeballed with a cylindrical teaspoon. I’m going to pulverize the living bejeebus out of the C60 with a stainless steel mortar and pestle and stir it for two full weeks. The general consensus is that I should keep it down to 700 mcgs./ml., so will I have any problems pushing it a little bit past that? It gets really hot in the house while I’m at work, so I’m thinking that might help a bit. I’m planning to set the AC to kick in at 90˚ F, per hav’s recommendation.

 

[sensei]

I used a stainless steel spoon and crushed the C60 after I put it inside the mason jar.

 

This is 300mg in 330 ml of oil after 1 week  of hand shaking

 

 

Attached Files

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[Heisenburger]

So you’re pushing it to 909 mcgs./ml.—even past the Vaughter product. Very interesting. I haven’t read all of your posts, but I’ve skimmed them. Are you filtering your final product?

[niner]

So you’re pushing it to 909 mcgs./ml.—even past the Vaughter product. Very interesting. I haven’t read all of your posts, but I’ve skimmed them. Are you filtering your final product?

 

I don't think it will get there without either stirring or shaking a couple times a day for a really long time.   It would help to allow some air into the system, if it's not vented.  I'm NOT recommending this, but heating would probably speed it up a lot.  It might produce something entirely new and different, and not necessarilly good, however.

[sensei]

 

So you’re pushing it to 909 mcgs./ml.—even past the Vaughter product. Very interesting. I haven’t read all of your posts, but I’ve skimmed them. Are you filtering your final product?

 

I don't think it will get there without either stirring or shaking a couple times a day for a really long time.   It would help to allow some air into the system, if it's not vented.  I'm NOT recommending this, but heating would probably speed it up a lot.  It might produce something entirely new and different, and not necessarilly good, however.

 

 

There is air in the mason jar, and the C60 was crushed against the side of the mason jar with a stainless steel spoon.

 

That said, I think it will probably only get to ~.8g/ml but I may be wrong. I think .9g/ml is saturation in OO anyway (niner?)

 

I'm willing to have to add more OO to not waste residue, after using dissolved off the top.

 

We are at day 10 of once or twice a day shaking and the residue on the bottom is hardly noticeable any more. 

 

I will take another picture tonight and post to see if any color change (same camera and settings, same lamp as backlight)

Edited by sensei, 23 February 2015 - 11:29 PM.