19 replies to this topic

[blaine_11]

Is Opiate tolerance permanent? 
 

or does it 'reset' after a long period of abstinence? its seems like a maddening slow process for me

[nowayout]

It resets, but typically a memory remains, so if you start again, say after a year of abstinence, you will almost immediately become tolerant again after only one or two highs.

Edited by nowayout, 12 July 2015 - 02:22 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

A possiblity might be to use Proglumide to reverse and prevent tolerance.

 

An interesting side effect of proglumide is that it enhances the analgesia produced by opioid drugs,[5] and can prevent or even reverse the development of tolerance to opioid drugs.[6][7]

→ source (external link)

[blaine_11]

A possiblity might be to use Proglumide to reverse and prevent tolerance.

 

An interesting side effect of proglumide is that it enhances the analgesia produced by opioid drugs,[5] and can prevent or even reverse the development of tolerance to opioid drugs.[6][7]

→ source (external link)

thank you, ill check that out.


after 15 months abstinence i would of thought id have no/reset tolerance? 

[nowayout]

 

A possiblity might be to use Proglumide to reverse and prevent tolerance.

 

An interesting side effect of proglumide is that it enhances the analgesia produced by opioid drugs,[5] and can prevent or even reverse the development of tolerance to opioid drugs.[6][7]

→ source (external link)

thank you, ill check that out.


after 15 months abstinence i would of thought id have no/reset tolerance? 

 

If you mean the euphoria, unfortunately tolerance to the euphoriant effect pretty much remains with you long term, in that you can only expect to get euphoria once or twice now before you are again fully tolerant to it.  Unfortuately it is like riding a bicycle - your brain will never forget your previous exposure and will now adapt very quickly if exposed again. 

 

[crazepharmacist]

Sounds like my experience with tianeptine. Euporic warm and fuzzy feeling first couple weeks of using the suplhate form for the first time. Even after prolonged abstinence, euphoric feeling is impossible o illicit, probably only with extreme dosages.

[blaine_11]

 

 

A possiblity might be to use Proglumide to reverse and prevent tolerance.

 

An interesting side effect of proglumide is that it enhances the analgesia produced by opioid drugs,[5] and can prevent or even reverse the development of tolerance to opioid drugs.[6][7]

→ source (external link)

thank you, ill check that out.


after 15 months abstinence i would of thought id have no/reset tolerance? 

 

If you mean the euphoria, unfortunately tolerance to the euphoriant effect pretty much remains with you long term, in that you can only expect to get euphoria once or twice now before you are again fully tolerant to it.  Unfortuately it is like riding a bicycle - your brain will never forget your previous exposure and will now adapt very quickly if exposed again. 

 

 

i was never fully tolerant, i still got the effects. but i think this is why i have a permanent cross tolerance with alcohol, if tolerance never resets i guess im screwed for life

[nowayout]

Sounds like my experience with tianeptine. Euporic warm and fuzzy feeling first couple weeks of using the suplhate form for the first time. Even after prolonged abstinence, euphoric feeling is impossible o illicit, probably only with extreme dosages.

 

My initial euphoria on (legal doses prescribed for pain) tramadol actually lasted several months.  It eventually burned itself out.  Now even after long abstinence I can only get the warm fuzzy feeling back for a day or so if I use it, so I limit use of my little stash to emergencies such as breakups or other losses, and then only to get through the first day.  I wouldn't want to go through the hell of opioid dependence and cessation ever again anyway, and I was on only moderate doses for chronic pain.

[Major Legend]

Sounds like my experience with tianeptine. Euporic warm and fuzzy feeling first couple weeks of using the suplhate form for the first time. Even after prolonged abstinence, euphoric feeling is impossible o illicit, probably only with extreme dosages.

I have tried the sodium form to no results, is there a difference with the sulphate? How are you dosing it?

[Major Legend]

Tolerance to opiates can be mitigated by Proglumide, Agmatine Sulphate, ULD Naltrexone and Memantine. Proglumide and Agmatine is the forerunner here being the ones with the least amount of hassle. I would just cycle between Proglumide, Agmatine and Memantine. I know a person who does this with good results, but he was trying to maintain his dosage rather than recreating the high.

 

Chasing the euphoria never ends well, anti tolerance stacks can help you achieve highs again, but if you keep abusing those highs you will become more tolerant to the drug and soon tolerant to Proglumide, Agmatine itself too, however opiates can keep their prosocial and pain easing effects relatively intact minus the euphoria.

 

Edit: If one does a google search there are ALOT of papers on the effectiveness of Proglumide on Opiate tolerance. The drug was patented at least twice for its use as an opiate tolerance aid. I guess it never made it out there because the drug is so cheap that no company would make anything off it (its a cheaply available OTC thats no longer around), and then there is the fact that nobody really wants a drug that reduces drug usage : /

Edited by Major Legend, 13 July 2015 - 02:44 AM.

[nowayout]

Tolerance to opiates can be mitigated by Proglumide/

.... If one does a google search there are ALOT of papers on the effectiveness of Proglumide on Opiate tolerance. The drug was patented at least twice for its use as an opiate tolerance aid.

 

AFAICT proglumide was tested in animals for helping prevent or delay tolerance to opioid analgesia.  It doesn't necessarily follow that it helps with tolerance to the euphoriant effect, which normally goes away much quicker than the analgesia anyway. 
 

[Major Legend]

 

 

 

AFAICT proglumide was tested in animals for helping prevent or delay tolerance to opioid analgesia.  It doesn't necessarily follow that it helps with tolerance to the euphoriant effect, which normally goes away much quicker than the analgesia anyway. 
 

 

 

Well there wouldn't be research on how to keep people getting high I think - a little bit unconventional maybe hehe. I would guess 1) alot of people are using opiates for their clinical effects on pain 2) that there is some correlation between analgesia and the other effects and side effects of opiates.

 

Anyways I think tolerance is bound to happen faster if you push the dose up to achieve euphoria instead of remaining steady. Euphoric dosages are often achieved by taking doses higher than effective pain mediation, and this spike creates a corresponding reaction from the person taking it - in fact opiate tolerance is well documented to develop in the matters of days not weeks, even under non abusive clinical use.

 

There is a secondary component to euphoria tolerance that is not related to normal tolerance. Upon reaching euphoria the brain actually changes to subdue the next time the euphoria happens, this is also well documented in happiness research that "happiness/positivity" are much more hardwired in genetics than people think, if you upset this the brain will simply strengthen its ability to make you not feel good to achieve homeostasis. This is also the reason why if people win the lottery, its fun for a while and then they don't get a kick out of it anymore. Euphoria is actually a big signal that the brain needs to change to be less positive for survival.

 

^ Of course we are talking about euphoria, not mood enhancement and pro social effects, the latter I think can be achieved on opiates once every two weeks even without the aid of any anti tolerance meds.

Edited by Major Legend, 13 July 2015 - 10:54 AM.

[nowayout]

 

^ Of course we are talking about euphoria, not mood enhancement and pro social effects, the latter I think can be achieved on opiates once every two weeks even without the aid of any anti tolerance meds.

 

 

Are there pro-social effects?  IME opiates fill all voids and make you perfectly happy to be alone in your bedroom with your life on hold indefinitely.  Even with acute, not chronic use, many people just want to chill alone.  This seems common; many people who kick them start going out and do things, socially or otherwise, for the first time in years. 

Edited by nowayout, 13 July 2015 - 02:36 PM.

[blaine_11]

is down-regulation permanent? will i recover? thats all i want to know, thank you in advance

[nowayout]

is down-regulation permanent? will i recover? thats all i want to know, thank you in advance

 

What would you understand as "recovery"?  What is it that you want to be able to do? 
 

[blaine_11]

 

is down-regulation permanent? will i recover? thats all i want to know, thank you in advance

 

What would you understand as "recovery"?  What is it that you want to be able to do? 
 

 

enjoying my beer again would be nice

[nowayout]

 

 

is down-regulation permanent? will i recover? thats all i want to know, thank you in advance

 

What would you understand as "recovery"?  What is it that you want to be able to do?

 

enjoying my beer again would be nice

 

Is it possible you are just alcohol-tolerant from getting used to alcohol? 

[blaine_11]

definitely not, ive taken breaks. different social settings, even different drinks, nothing. so im wondering if its permanent down-regulation

[nowayout]

definitely not, ive taken breaks. different social settings, even different drinks, nothing. so im wondering if its permanent down-regulation

 

Not something I have tried personally, but you can look into LDN (low dose naltrexone).  The idea is that low doses of this endorphin-blocking drug taken before bed can help upregulate endorphin pathways for the next day, with improving results over time.  Careful with dosing though, since blocking endorphins too much for too long can cause a lot of suffering - there are some who say that the usual LDN therapy doses of 1-4 mg may be much higher than they should be (possibly thousands or millions of times higher; look for prior discussions of LDN in these forums). 

Edited by nowayout, 13 July 2015 - 08:58 PM.

[Major Legend]

 

 

Are there pro-social effects?  IME opiates fill all voids and make you perfectly happy to be alone in your bedroom with your life on hold indefinitely.  Even with acute, not chronic use, many people just want to chill alone.  This seems common; many people who kick them start going out and do things, socially or otherwise, for the first time in years. 

 

 

Really? Can't say I know many people who take opiates, my experience with them is they are very pro social (increase in sociability and reduction of fear) in low doses and i've heard several people say the same thing - who were originally prescribed them for pain.