4 replies to this topic

[Lifemap]

I have been supplementing 500mg of L-tyrosine in the morning before eating with b6, vit C, and methyl folate for the last two weeks.( I have a genetic mutation so I understand taking folate might not be effective) It has been fairly hit and miss in regards to the increased energy, & mood, and help with focus. I just recently added small dose 40mg 5htp along dose of L-tryosine ave since been getting consistent positive  results. However they only last about 7 hours and fade off. The second dose is never quite as effective . I have been doing two doses morning and night. My questions are:

 

1) Does taking 5htp and getting positive effects mean I have an neuotrasmitter imbalance or tell tell sign of something else?

2)Are there any other supplements to be adding to this stack to help both L-tyrosine or 5htp work more effectively (how much b6, vit c do I need)?

2) How long can I take either 5htp, l-trysoine safely?

3) What are your thoughts or experience with mucuna? Would you recommend cycling l-tryosine and mucuna to help reduce my body building a tollerance?

4) Would adding rhodiola be helpful in this, looking to improve depression, mood, focus ? Or bacopa, any other supplements or opinions?

 

Thank you for any help insight to this. My goals are to  use supplements that have less side effects to diminish or rid my self of depression, and help with focus. I was on strattera prior and discontinued due to side effects. Found it extremely helpful, and after stopping I feel back into depression even though I am on a healthy diet, daily exercise, sun and good sleep( well fall asleep, and get 7 hours, just wake up fatigued before beginning the amino acid regimen)

[gamesguru]

7 hours is a long time for tyrosine!

Don't know much about mucuna.

You may have slight imbalances.  But taking tyrosine or 5-htp everyday could result in desensitization, return to near-baseline, and withdrawal.  Using tyrosine daily, you have about 2-3 weeks before tolerance is completely developed.  Not sure how long you would have to cycle off, but probbaly not good to cycle long-term.

Rhodiola can be good, with its MAO-B inhibition, but stacking it with many other things can sometimes backfire or lead to unpredictable effects.

Inducers of PH (phenylalanine hydroxylase):

Lamiaceae^[1]

Simple diet^[2]

Exercise^[3]

Iron^[4]

High ORAC foods^[5]

 

Inducers of TH (tyrosine hydroxylase):

Horny goat weed^[1]

Lithium

Ginkgo

Bacopa^[2]

Green tea^[3]

 

Upregulators of receptors (dopamine):

Caffeine^[1]

Bacopa^[2]

Exercise^[3]

Edited by gamesguru, 05 September 2015 - 07:23 PM.

[Lifemap]

The results form tyrosine and 5htp last more about 3 hours but noticeable drop off funk around 5-6.

I certainly do not want to get to the point of desensitization, however I need to find a solution.  As mentioned  I'vs spent last 5 weeks healthy diet and exercise.  Eating high protein, good fats, and healthy carbs, and 5 days a week resistant training,  with unremarkable results.  I understand that it can take a while to gain desired  results so don't plan on changing it just need some additional help if I plan on maintaining heathy  life style. 

Can I cycle tyrosine or 5htp and remain  safe, day on day off type of thing?  Or should I just add some inducers of phenylalanine and dopamine on their own in place of the tyrosine and 5htp to be safe? .I am on a iron supplement so should I just add Lamiaceae to help with PH? Out of the list of inducers for TH, which would you recommend starting with? So adding bacopa to this would help in  dopamine safely no tolerance, withdraw that you mentioned comes form L-tyrosine and 5htp ? Thank you again for the help I need it and greatly appreciate it?

Edited by Lifemap, 06 September 2015 - 07:19 PM.

[gamesguru]

diet and exercise... with unremarkable results.  I understand that it can take a while

Can I cycle tyrosine or 5htp and remain  safe, day on day off type of thing?  Or should I just add some inducers of phenylalanine and dopamine on their own in place of the tyrosine and 5htp to be safe? .I am on a iron supplement so should I just add Lamiaceae to help with PH? Out of the list of inducers for TH, which would you recommend starting with? So adding bacopa to this would help in  dopamine safely no tolerance, withdraw that you mentioned comes form L-tyrosine and 5htp ? Thank you again for the help I need it and greatly appreciate it?

 

Yes it takes 3-6 months for full effects.  And I would take 1-2 days a week where you input everything you ate that day into a nutrient database.  You are gonna be surprised when you notice a 3-4 elements emerging as regularly underrepresented.  Or if lazy, buy multivitamins.

Am not sure how to cycle them safely, but if you notice tolerance/desensitization, maybe time to give a try to my recommendations.

Wouldn't bother with the salvia bunge (lamiaceae), it's just got one study.  Probably would instead focus on getting higher ORAC foods (wild blueberries/kiwiberry, cruciferous and allium vegetables, herbs/spices/roots).  It's not clear in my research that much can be done to boost phenylalanine hydroxylase activity in the healthy brain, but there are some ways to reduce activity in certain disease-states.

 

Probably lithium is the most studied, you could try low dose orotate, or switching to a spring water if not already.

Then bacopa, and tea.  They are good general supplements anyways.  Ginkgo produced less dramatic restorations to baseline, and horny goat weed is a little harder to obtain (in quality).

Bacopa is also sort of biphasic D2-antagonist in mPFC, increasing receptor density in desensitized patients, and blocking receptors for patients with overactive or overly sensitive dopamine pathways.

Green tea is very good too, at reducing oxidation (mostly dopaminergic)^{[1a, 1b]}, at inducing hippocampal growth^[2], at increasing spatial memory (if you're blind)^[3], and at enhancing parieto-frontal connectivity (working memory)^[4].

Edited by gamesguru, 06 September 2015 - 08:12 PM.

[Fenix_]

You need to be very careful taking 5-htp, it can increase risk for fibrosis. Tryptophan is safer. I just started taking tyrosine myself and have ordered tryptophan since I read that just taking one or the other can block some of the enzyme pathways.