13 replies to this topic

[birthdaysuit]

Has anyone here taken Lemon Balm, either in tincture, tea or capsule form?

 

Would inhibiting the enzyme that degrades GABA potentially up-regulate GABA via longterm use? In this case does Lemon Balm act like a GABA agonist or is it entirely different. I’ve sipped Lemon Balm Tea throughout the day and I really felt good. Cool, calm and collected.   

 

Lemon balm extract was identified as a potent in vitro inhibitor of GABA transaminase, which explains anxiolytic effects. The major compound responsible for GABA transaminase inhibition activity in lemon balm was then found to be rosmarinic acid.^[17]

 

Lemon balm and preparations thereof also have been shown to improve mood and mental performance. These effects are believed to involve muscarinic and nicotinic acetylcholine receptors.^[18] Positive results have been achieved in a small clinical trial involving Alzheimer patients with mild to moderate symptoms.^[19] Essential oils obtained from Melissa officinalis leaf showed high acetylcholinesterase and butyrylcholinesterase co-inhibitory activities.^[20]

 

 

[Junk Master]

I think it's underrated and frequently take it while on a "vacation" from benzo use or when drastically lowering Clonazepam dosage while tapering off.

 

IMO far more effective than say Theanine.  

 

Edited by Junk Master, 20 March 2016 - 05:18 AM.

[birthdaysuit]

Would not high acetylcholinesterase and butyrylcholinesterase co-inhibitory activities of lemon balm have a negative effect on anxiety? Excess acetylcholine? This would be good for Alzheimer's disease but couldn't this lead to behavioral problems? I find it odd that lemon balm inhibits the enzymes that degrade GABA and acetylcholine. So generally speaking would this not lead to higher 'levels' GABA and Acetycholine? I'm confused because I'm looking for a adaptogen or herb that I'm able to take for the long term in order to reduce my anxiety. GABA agonists are not an option. I've tried passionflower for three months and had moderate withdrawals. Maybe I'm a pussy but it really impacted me hard and it couldn't of been anything else other than vitamin d3 and magnesium.

[birthdaysuit]

So my question is can long term lemon balm use down regulate GABA receptors? And if so how does it do this?

[gamesguru]

increases GABA via GABA transaminase inhibition [1]

perhaps also allosteric modulation [2]

[birthdaysuit]

Thanks, so Lemon Balm increases GABA via longterm use via inhibiting GABA transaminase, my concern is would acetylcholinesterase and butyrylcholinesterase co-inhibitory worsen anxiety? That is even if Lemon balm is a strong inhibitor of these enzymes. Inhibition of acetylcholinesterase in my understanding would increase norepinephrine levels and thus increase behavioral problems. However, with Lemon Balm inhibiting the enzymes that degrades GABA, I don’t think it would be a problem. 

 

 

[gamesguru]

its not clear how AChE inhibitors increase norepinephrine? and butyrylcholinesterase is mostly plasmal (doesnt readily cross blood-brain-barrier)

anyway, AChE inhibitors would increase acetylcholine, which might be expected to increase anxiety [1], [2]

 

as well, long-term increasing GABA isnt usually good for long-term anxiety, due to receptor downregulation

[sativa]

I have lemon balm (300mg) + Theanine (200mg) capsules and take them fairly regularly before bed as well as in combination with other NMDA antagonists and anti addictive aids such ad lobelia and blue lotus.

The most I have taken was around 24.

[birthdaysuit]

So even if Melissa Officinalis is not a GABA agonist but rather inhibits the enzymes that degrades GABA hence an increase in GABA, there still will be a down regulation jus as if one were to use GABA Agonists for long term. All of the studies on lemon balm that I've seen say that long term lemon balm ingestion increases GABA. I haven't seen anything in regards to down regulation like valerian or a benzo would do.

[birthdaysuit]

its not clear how AChE inhibitors increase norepinephrine? and butyrylcholinesterase is mostly plasmal (doesnt readily cross blood-brain-barrier)

anyway, AChE inhibitors would increase acetylcholine, which might be expected to increase anxiety [1], [2]

 

as well, long-term increasing GABA isnt usually good for long-term anxiety, due to receptor downregulation

Since I have neurological Lyme disease it be safe to say that I'm low in Acetylcholine? I'm often scatterbrained , have trouble doing simple tasks, short term memory problems, losing train of thought during conversations, unable to follow plots in books or movies; completely forget what I read or watched, reaction time is slow, extreme focus and concentration problems, which has exasperated my anxiety. All of these symptoms manifested a month after my tick bite in 2014. Exercise, Mountain biking, eating low-fat has done nothing to help these symptoms. I should note that a low fat diet, can often be absent of choline. My problem is because I have anxiety most likely because of a physical problem I do not want to increase acetylcholine. Also, I don't want to blame these symptoms on one neurotransmitter. It could be a host of other mechanisms which are causing these symptoms like excess quinolinic acid or low dopamine due to other bodily malfunctions. 

 

As a Lyme suffer I'm looking for something that helps with memory recall, wit and to bring my personality back. The problem is while I'm often dull and apathetic, everything still seems to be overstimulating, for example sounds and light. I don't want to add a excitatory element to all this becuase that could increase my anxiety ten-fold. lemon Balm seemed like a good start to combat my anxiety and maybe supplement with Choline?

[gamesguru]

maybe the literature hasnt reported it YET

 

or maybe its balanced out by compounds that down GABA and UP receptors??

cause i know it contains such compounds, e.g.

Magnolol of Lemon Balm enhances pentobarbital-induced sleeping behaviors and increases GABA(A) alpha receptor subunit density
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19165750

Anxiolytic-like effects of 4-O-methylhonokiol of Lemon Balm via enhancement of GABAergic transmission and chloride influx
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21501091

 

 

EDIT (lyme disease):

try bacopa and either eggs or citicoline.

then look to an immune boosting stack, diet/lifestyle

 

Edited by gamesguru, 22 March 2016 - 02:24 AM.

[sativa]

EDIT (lyme disease):
try bacopa and either eggs or citicoline.
then look to an immune boosting stack, diet/lifestyle

For optimal immune system function, look into avoidance (as much as feasibly possible) of lectins (notably found in nightshade vegetables, grains and egg white), gluten and similar protein's (notably oats, wheat, rye, barley), and making sure your adrenal glands are healthy and functioning correctly as they are strongly linked to inflammation and immune function.

[normalizing]

how does one know if their adrenal glands work properly? is there a specific test for this?

[sativa]

how does one know if their adrenal glands work properly? is there a specific test for this?

Adrenal issues are labelled as adrenal fatigue, adrenal dysfunction, adrenal burnout etc. (The term "burnout" is a bit of a misnomer but anyway)

Periodical cortisol testing is one potential way of identifying adrenal issues.

"Leaky gut" (aka increased permeability of the intestinal lining) is another condition linked to unsatisfactory adrenal gland function.

Edited by sativa, 23 March 2016 - 09:23 AM.