99 replies to this topic

[mitkat]

Lucid dreaming is something I really got into as a teenager, without the use of any drugs/substances...I found it very helpful to keep a pad beside my bed to write down my dreams immediately as I woke up, as remembering dreams...well, you know how that can be.

Please don't let this thread die, there are many good ideas here. I had a psychoeducational analysis done about 5 years ago, well before my encounters with nootropics of any kind. I'm going to go dig out that info, because the psychologist had heaps of info regarding exercise to make your brain larger, and shinier.

[wassname]

I wonder if taking antiphsycotics during devolopment would increase your dopamine systems base level? Since antipsychotics usually block dopamine receptors.

[tracer]

Well... here's an update:

Because of work pressure, I haven't been able to get into this full-on. At the moment, all I'm taking are the nootropics. Here's my new stack:

Piracetam 4800
Aniracetam 1000
Oxiracetam 1000
Idebenone 200
Taurine 4000
Creatine 4000
Alpha GPC (50%) 600

I am currently only doing the anti-ADD brain entrainment, but that's for 4/5 hours a day (whenever I'm at my PC). The effects are stunning. I get more done than ever. It's phenomenal.

But that's all I have time for.... this time.

[beej]

Hey, care to provide an update on how its going?

[tracer]

I am a machine. Cognitively, I am no longer human... I can't explain how it feels to be able to deliver at 200% all day at work, and completely destroy complex problems before the rest of the team even understands them...

The only problem is that I seem to have some cholinergic effects (the subject of another thread), and I'm really tired sometimes, but I think that's just because I zoom around at the speed of light!

[the big b]

Almost another 2 weeks have passed, anything new to report Tracer? I'm followed your log thus far, very interesting.

[tracer]

Well... I've backed off the doses quite significantly. I still use the higher doses intermittently, but I believe that continued use (i.e. continued operation at 200%) disturbs sleep patterns, and depletes one's "resources" such that after about 2-3 weeks you will crash. Currently, I am cycling out all stimulants and just doing the noots. In spite of this, I am running at 150% and it seems quite sustainable. I have added extra zinc/magnesium and B-vits to my diet and this has helped a lot with the sleep and fatigue.

I have also drastically changed my brain entrainment regime... I no longer have the opportunity to sit at my PC and work so I don't do that much anymore. This is a source of considerable annoyance for me.

[tracer]

Okay... so its been another few weeks... work has been hectic, and some of my team mates jetted off to the other side of the planet for a series of workshops, but I was back home "running support" for them. After that, I picked up a combination of bronchitis and conjunctivitis. I was not a happy camper, but I am starting to feel a lot better now.

I will be getting back into my "training" as of next week. The protocol is a little different. I'm going to be using three distinct nootropic stacks:

The first is Ani, Alpha-GPC, Idebenone and Lecithin. I call this RED-PILL (enter the matrix)

The second is Oxi, Alpha-GPC, Idebenone. This is ORANGE-PILL.

The last is Piracetam, Alpha-GPC, Idebenone. This is BLUE-PILL (for sleeping)

I will use RED first first thing in the morning as a wake-up kick. I train on an empty stomach, or with a light protein shake in me (for fat loss) and a big whack of Piracetam or Oxiracetam will have me atop the great porcelain throne.

The ORANGE is for use during the day, to keep me powering through. I would take this at lunch or whenever I eat.

The BLUE is suppertime/post-workout. It's a relatively low dose, and it's more for nervous recovery and continued regeneration while I sleep.

So what do y'all think?

[xhaoss]

No, Tracer. You have to remember that Piracetam disturbs sleep patterns. And that there is an acetylcholine drop during slow wave sleep and REM for LTP.

Personally I use:

Oxygen

4.5 mg Hydergine (not sure on half life... or whether the half life even matters) once in the morning
30 mg Vinpocetine (w/food) split into two dosages morning and evening
120 mg Ginko once in the morning
and am not sure on Picimilon and Xanthinol Nicotinate

Protection

~1000 mg Carnosine (w/food) in the morning
200~300 mg Idebenone (w/food) (not sure the dosages I should be aiming for, or the half-life) once in the morning
~500 mg GliSODin split into two dosages morning and evening
1440 mg EPA/DHA (w/food) (not sure on dosage amt) split in two dosages morning and evening
~400 mg Pyritinol once in the morning
750 mg 2.5% Ashwagandha once in the morning
300 mg 50% Bacopa once in the morning

Optimization

4.8 g Piracetam (not sure on dosages, or whether it matters if taken on an empty stomach or not) split in two dosages morning and afternoon
GNC Ultra Mega (nice multi, w/ time release. I hate GNC as much as the next guy; dont judge)
Bone Health (by NOW. Calcium/Magnesium ratio is as important for NMDA receptors as bones)
600 mg Elemental Alpha-GPC once in the morning
4 mg Galantamine (w/food) once in the morning
50 mcg Huperzine once in the morning
~2 g ALCAR-Arginine once in the morning
~500 mg Centrophenoxine (w/food) once in the morning
~ 5 g Creatine once at night

As well as brain entrainment. I personally use a 50 min Theta session before I go to sleep (so as to cut down on time) and the IQ boosters, whenever.

I am also debating pregnenolone and royal jelly. The pregnenolone I am debating because I am only 16 and the royal jelly because I am not sure if the increase in NGF is caused by the large amt of vitamins or for some other mystical reason that the new-age holistics have been telling me (I am reminded of Cosmik Debris by Zappa for some reason...)

[bacchus26]

Lastly I have already forked out $200 for brain entrainment software.

I ordered the Ultra Meditation discs from Mind Tek (http://www.mind-tek.com/) and found them to be highly effective but pricey ($200) for the whole set. In fact, I'd say that the effects you get from using this kind of technology is more potent than many of the noops out there.

Be careful though... I thought I'd be all cool and daring by megadosing on piracetam while using these discs. I started feeling like I was having an out of body experience and then a whole flood of repressed freudian crap started coming up from when i was about 2-5 years old. Two days later my depression came back with a vengeance and I had a severe episode. Goes to show that if you drive too fast you're going to crash.

The old sage wisdom applies to this as well - start out real slow and have patience. Results will come with time.

[xhaoss]

You do understand that repressed memories and everything else Freud posited hasn't been backed up by science, and is considered bull by any psychologist who even remotely understands their topic? (Its history though. Its like reading L Ron Hubbard if you're hoping to become a writer (or start a religion))

But, have you had a chance to try Neuro Programmer 2 and compare it to the Mind Trek CDs? What do you think? I couldn't really get anything out of the meditation sections however, I mostly use brain wave entrainment to skip a few hours of sleep (concentrated sleep) and for gh release and such.

[bacchus26]

You do understand that repressed memories and everything else Freud posited hasn't been backed up by science, and is considered bull by any psychologist who even remotely understands their topic? (Its history though. Its like reading L Ron Hubbard if you're hoping to become a writer (or start a religion))

But, have you had a chance to try Neuro Programmer 2 and compare it to the Mind Trek CDs? What do you think? I couldn't really get anything out of the meditation sections however, I mostly use brain wave entrainment to skip a few hours of sleep (concentrated sleep) and for gh release and such.

All of psychology is a pseudo-science at best, so what's your point? Does that mean that the field of psychology is useless? I don't think so. Your comment about "any psychologist who even remotely understands their topic" doesn't make sense since understanding the unconscious mind is really the foundation of the whole field of psychology.

Neuro Programmer 2, huh? I'm going to have to look into that one.

[tracer]

xhao55: yes... your're right, I shouldn't have said "for sleeping" w.r.t the Piracetam... I should have said "so I will be able to sleep" Really, I'd be done in the gym at about 7PM or so, at which time I'd pop the BLUE. I'd only hit the sack between 11PM and Midnight anyway... The reason I say "for sleeping" is that Ani and Oxy have a good stimulant effect for me. If I take them in the evenings, I generally have some "wicked dreams" Speaking of Zappa, it's probably the closest a chemical-evolutionist can get to an acid trip. Not exactly restful. Hence Piracetam is my last meal. But perhaps it's better to take Ani 2hrs before my workout, with its shorter half-life, then knock the brain entrainment within the 4-hour effective window and sleep soundly with all the noot levels at baseline. Hmmm.... I'll have to meditate on that (pun intended).

[tracer]

bacchus26: hmm... my mental state also vascillates between the giddy highs of joy and crushing abyss of depression. I think that's part of the human condition.

The only advice I can offer is to make sure your'e getting your fish-oil and not over-dosing any antihistamines (Ketotifen, Periactin, etc).

Also, I'm quite surprised that Piracetam alone can have that strong an effect. It hasn't done that for me with Neuro-Programmer... perhaps an experiment is in order. Check your PMs.

[orangish]

hey tracer, After a couple weeks, do you have anything to add about improvements, or other curious results? Subtle or blatant?

[tracer]

Hmmm...

Well...

It's a funny thing. I had my first experience with weed yesterday (good old cannabis). Went to a friend's barbecue and got handed a large piece of cake. Now I'd been starving all day, so I didn't ask any questions. I wolfed it down... then got handed another. And I gobbled that too...

Next thing I knew the world was spinning, I couldn't feel my face and my "friends" thought it was bloody hysterical. I think I must have gotten paranoid or something because I came-to locked in the a toilet, sitting in a corner...

For those who haven't figured it out, the lovely chocolate cake was actually a contrivance termed "space-cake" - cannabis baked in it. Apparently it's effects are stronger and more long-lasting than smoking cannabis, but take longer to kick in. For me 20 min is not a long time.

Unquestionably this was the worst drug-related experience of my life. I can only assume that there is a very significant interaction between Cannabis and the "Red-Pill" though what the mechanism is, I can't even guess at.

Today I feel listless, tired, and unable to concentrate. I have heard the expression "high for a night, slow for a week". I certainly feel slow. Anybody got any advice to increase the clearance of the active substances... I hear that the blockage of neuro-transmission endures for a rather long time and that there is death of neurons as well.

Anyway, whether it was anger or something drug induced, I left a few bloody noses behind and lost a few friends because of this. Strangely enough, once your'e over the high it doesn't seem to slow your reflexes much... or maybe everyone else was just slower than me. Either way, my dead brain cells have been avenged.

Blech...

[treonsverdery]

One silver lining that comes to mind here is that, if you like, you might measure your mental performance on standardized paper items. If you already have baseline data that's a nifty way to measure the after effects of your THC event. If you've not been doing standardized measurments START NOW the possibility of gratifying grade inflation is there as you chart your way upward from the THC thing.

Also if you start or discuss keeping baseline measurements you will be a utility n efficacy leader at imminst.

Keep telling us of your progress.

Edited by treonsverdery, 02 November 2006 - 05:31 AM.

[tracer]

Hmmm... sounds interesting but I can't tell if your'e being sarcastic or not.

If you are - I'm not a stoner I swear, it was an accident! There's no need for that tone of voice (or text) ;-)

If you are serious - how would I go about measuring "mental performance on standardized paper items". I would use some sort of IQ test, but that's not reliable repeatable, etc... plus it's time-consuming. If your method is relatively quick, I could take a moving average and look at the trend. Let me know.

[tpower]

Tracer, can you tell us how's your regimen going? i'm interested to try out your stack.

[tracer]

Well... it's very very interesting that you should ask...

I've siginficantly altered my stack composition for the last few months - basically what I have done is created a single super-pill that I attack-dose on rising and then titrate throughout the day. Unfortunately, due to a PC crash I can't give you the exact formula, but it is chiefly Aniracetam + Alpha GPC + Idebenone, but with an added multivitamin, Gingko Biloba, Ginseng, DHEA, 7-keto-DHEA, Guarana, Green Tea Extract, Creatine Ethyl Ester and Brewer's yeast powder for powder stability.

I find that things are going quite well... its a few months on and I have not noted any decline in efficacy or any long-term side effects. I'm about to start with a couple of new addition as soon as I get my new orders. I will be incorporating a little bit of Wellbutrin, Modafinil, Vinpocetine, Arginine Ethly Ester, Lithium Orotate and potentially Hydergine and Huperzine-A as well. The Wellbutrin and Modafinil will proabaly be part of a "good morning" pill, and I will probably create something for better sleep as well, with a bit of Tryptophan and Melatonin.

And as soon as work permits, I will be starting with Image streaming and as soon as summer is officially here, dive-reflex training as well. I'm actually toying with a way to do D.R.T. without full immersion by using a little perspex mask that I made connected to a little peltier cooler... I'm just thinking about a way to provoke the baroreflex...

Funny story - I have been asked to stop using big words by my colleagues at work... evidently my drug-enhanced eloquence is not appreciated...

And other than that, I'm evolving quite nicely. Life's just peachy!

[tpower]

hmmm...i've bought some piracetam, oxiracetam, aniracetam, and idebenone recently. I don't think i have any more money left to buy other nootropics, unless i forgo buying a video game console during christmas! Do you think the stack will do for me? You said this stack helped you to feel 200% at work, but there must be a good reason why you added gingko and all that other stuff. Why did you make the switch? Did the efficacy of the stack diminish over time?

[cmorera]

Okay... so its been another few weeks...  work has been hectic, and some of my team mates jetted off to the other side of the planet for a series of workshops, but I was back home "running support" for them.  After that, I picked up a combination of bronchitis and conjunctivitis.  I was not a happy camper, but I am starting to feel a lot better now.

I will be getting back into my "training" as of next week.  The protocol is a little different.  I'm going to be using three distinct nootropic stacks:

The first is Ani, Alpha-GPC, Idebenone and Lecithin.  I call this RED-PILL (enter the matrix)

The second is Oxi, Alpha-GPC, Idebenone. This is ORANGE-PILL.

The last is Piracetam, Alpha-GPC, Idebenone.  This is BLUE-PILL (for sleeping)

I will use RED first first thing in the morning as a wake-up kick.  I train on an empty stomach, or with a light protein shake in me (for fat loss) and a big whack of Piracetam or Oxiracetam will have me atop the great porcelain throne.

The ORANGE is for use during the day, to keep me powering through.  I would take this at lunch or whenever I eat.

The BLUE is suppertime/post-workout.  It's a relatively low dose, and it's more for nervous recovery and continued regeneration while I sleep. 

So what do y'all think?

I think it would make a really good marketing idea to actually package these pills to a popular nootropic/enhancement line. Im not sure if the ingrediants would be the same as listed above, but having a simplified blue/red/orange or w/e then selling to mass market would be cool. Since it seems the preforumulated 'stacks' right now are basically vitamins then a trace of huperzine or something lame...

anyways i appreciated reading your stacks, got some good ider's where.

[tracer]

I think it would make a really good marketing idea to actually package these pills to a popular nootropic/enhancement line.  Im not sure if the ingrediants would be the same as listed above, but having a simplified blue/red/orange or w/e then selling to mass market would be cool.  Since it seems the preforumulated 'stacks' right now are basically vitamins then a trace of huperzine or something lame...

anyways i appreciated reading your stacks, got some good ider's where.

Your'e most welcome. I do find that most commercial supplements are under-dosed. I used to have a small supplement company and I used to compound specifically for clients who were elite athletes (usually). The problem is that when you go public, the cost of marketing usually means that you have to compromise on quality, and this is a bit of an ideological conflict for me.

[tracer]

hmmm...i've bought some piracetam, oxiracetam, aniracetam, and idebenone recently. I don't think i have any more money left to buy other nootropics, unless i forgo buying a video game console during christmas! Do you think the stack will do for me? You said this stack helped you to feel 200% at work, but there must be a good reason why you added gingko and all that other stuff. Why did you make the switch? Did the efficacy of the stack diminish over time?

Well... personally I did exactly that. I didn't buy a PS2 when I bought my last stack, and I just deferred buying an XBox360 in favour of the Wellbutrin and Modafinil that I ordered. Hopefully those semi-literate simian freaks in customs will let it through! But then I'm very lucky when it comes to hardware because my company keeps me kitted out with monstrously powerful notebooks so If I do fancy a bit of deathmatch it runs fine on my work PC... it's your choice in the end.

There were several reasons why I did what I did...

1. Keep some Ani and aGPC around for about three months... it'll basically clump into a brick. The Brewer's Yeast was really to make it manageable... Just popped the bricks into a spice grinder and got a nice powder out.
2. I kept getting flu... that was largely because I was working long hours, training hard and not getting enough sleep. I don't believe it had anything to do with the nootropics. Hence, I decided to add in extra Vitamin C and an iron-free multivitamin pill that I ground up. I believe that taking it at various times during the day is more effective, and I wasn't going to keep yet another bottle on my desk so I just combined the powders and encapsulated it all in one go.
3. I had Gingko and Ginseng pills lying around and I didn't want another bottle on my desk, so into the spice grinder they went. I personally don't think they've had a massive effect.
4. Creatine is a *very* good idea, but I'm still waiting for a comparative study on Creatine Ethyl Ester vs Creatine Monohydrate... I just used the EE because I had bought some to try and it's easier on the digestive system than monohydrate.

I definitely did not experience any decrease in effect, or increase in effect with the new stuff, but then it wasn't supposed to feel any different. I'm on the same stack for about 5 months now and I still get that "reach out and crush stuff with my mind" feeling.

Personally, what I would do in your position is get some choline in your stack (I noticed you didn't mention any). Then I would look at substances that offer better value-for-money. Wellbutrin and Modafinil are EXPENSIVE and I must say that I am not entirely sure what theyre contribution to my stack is going to be. Vinpocetine, Centrophenoxine and the more common noots will probably add a little more kick and will probably be less expensive.

[juanjo_asdf]

Bump

[treonsverdery]

is there a verification of Permanent Increases in Intelligence

[spacey]

Was there any update on this?

[tracer]

Well... update wise... I posted a few other threas recently about the new stack that I'm working on, but theyseem to have been deleted.

About a verification - well... I'm off all nootropics at the moment (for about 2 weeks now) just as a tester, and I still feel and perform great! Not quite the 200%, but more like 150%. I know, it's a highly subjective ting, and I really need to work something quantitative in here, but for now it's all I've got. I do find that I need a goodcup of coffee in the morning to get the old gray-matter firing on all cyliners, which was never a problem... that was probably due to the chocamine in the old stack.

[awarren]

Bump. Anyone else have any new suggestions or new information about this topic, anything in general to contribute?

[somerandomnotuscitizen]

bump

@tracer - Could you please update us?
@anyone who did this accordingly to tracer, same question goes for you.

Edited by somerandomnotuscitizen, 22 April 2012 - 09:33 AM.