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Does everything physical gets destryed?

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#61 shadowhawk

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 08:56 PM

Evidence of a multiverse?  Evidence of a non caused vacuum creating mind and all the other non material things I mentioned?  I see fiction but it all is of little hope to you existing for long in any other form than Egyptian mummy's. So far the evidence is on the side of the second law and there is no use arguing with lala.  As for our topic question no one thinks the physical is completely destroyed.  That the cosmos is expanding at almost the speed of light seems to have evidence and there will be a time when we no longer see stars in the sky.  They will either be burnt out or to far away to see.  Death.



#62 Castiel

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 10:45 AM

Evidence of a multiverse?  Evidence of a non caused vacuum creating mind and all the other non material things I mentioned?  I see fiction but it all is of little hope to you existing for long in any other form than Egyptian mummy's. So far the evidence is on the side of the second law and there is no use arguing with lala.  As for our topic question no one thinks the physical is completely destroyed.  That the cosmos is expanding at almost the speed of light seems to have evidence and there will be a time when we no longer see stars in the sky.  They will either be burnt out or to far away to see.  Death.

 

Whether you like it or not, things pop out of the vacuum all the time.   Physicists have claimed that given enough time golden apples and even brains popping out of the vacuum is an inevitability of quantum law.   IF YOU CONSIDER QUANTUM LAW FICTION THEN... you better start believing in such... cause you're in one such story.
 



#63 shadowhawk

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 12:24 AM

 

Evidence of a multiverse?  Evidence of a non caused vacuum creating mind and all the other non material things I mentioned?  I see fiction but it all is of little hope to you existing for long in any other form than Egyptian mummy's. So far the evidence is on the side of the second law and there is no use arguing with lala.  As for our topic question no one thinks the physical is completely destroyed.  That the cosmos is expanding at almost the speed of light seems to have evidence and there will be a time when we no longer see stars in the sky.  They will either be burnt out or to far away to see.  Death.

 

Whether you like it or not, things pop out of the vacuum all the time.   Physicists have claimed that given enough time golden apples and even brains popping out of the vacuum is an inevitability of quantum law.   IF YOU CONSIDER QUANTUM LAW FICTION THEN... you better start believing in such... cause you're in one such story.
 

 

Cool that is better than any magic show I have ever seen.  And where did you see this or who did you say saw it?  I LIKE IT.  All the time!!!!!! where have I been.  And Quantum law dictates it!  Woe...  Show me and then I will overturn the Second Law of Thermodynamics with EQUILIBRIUM or another word DEATH being the future of physical things.  Scientists believe that too and many are Physicists.  As I said all things that are only physical are heading for EQUILIBRIUM or death.  That is established scientific conclusion.  At any  case  what practical hope does your assertion give you?  Are you going to pop out of the vacuum along with Jack? 



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#64 Castiel

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 10:18 AM

Didn't I post here, that in short spatiotemporal scale the second law has been shown to break momentarily?

 

We got to this present moment somehow, to think that this is the first and only time, that's a nice assertion but I wouldn't be so sure of it.  An immortal self either regenerating the world in a simulation or reliving it in memory, might do so an infinity of times.   Given the ability to restrict memory, it is not inconceivable that rather than mortal we're only under the illusion of being mortal.   Should technology allow us to transcend mortality, given the finitude of the possible we would likely relive anything, any moment in history, an infinity of times, making it more likely that the world is a recollection or simulation than an actual first ocurrence of the event.

 

In physics, a virtual particle is a transient fluctuation that exhibits many of the characteristics of an ordinary particle, but that exists for a limited time. The concept of virtual particles arises in perturbation theory of quantum field theory where interactions between ordinary particles are described in terms of exchanges of virtual particles. Any process involving virtual particles admits a schematic representation known as a Feynman diagram, in which virtual particles are represented by internal lines. [1][2]-wiki

 

There's a way the universe got into the present state, and the idea of yet more universes popping into existence is not out the question

 

"The Big Bang could've occurred as a result of just the laws of physics being there," said astrophysicist Alex Filippenko of the University of California, Berkeley. "With the laws of physics, you can get universes."-source

 

 

The laws of physics are a manifestation of eternal truth, being eternal and atemporal, they just are.  Though that doesn't bar something from the possibility of having set the current configuration.


Edited by Castiel, 30 September 2016 - 10:21 AM.


#65 shadowhawk

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 07:57 PM

On a small level and for a very short time energy can and does incense but the second law prevalent throughout the universe p rivals.  Where did you mention  a short spatiotemporal scale?  Had you have done so I would have pointed out how "SHORT," and momentary  time frame we are talking about and this does not negate the Second Law.  I would have also pointed out that this is of little import to your schemes.  In other words what are you practically going to do with it?  MORE LALA DOES NOT CHANGE THINGS.  The question raised by this topic has been answered, and my statement all things that are only physical are heading for EQUILIBRIUM or death, has not been shown to be false.  It gives you no HOPE to escape the worm.  I am not happy about that but how about something desperate like cryonics.  But then we are far off topic.  We need a new one.



#66 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 08:09 PM

It has not been answered yet, because there is a way to survive from absolutely all resons for death.

 

Those ways, that are only fictional or that we don't know yet, will become true in the future.



#67 shadowhawk

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 08:35 PM

Those ways we do know physically are not looking very good.  Is death in our physical future.  Assuming room temperature seems based on existing evidence highly probable.  Annihilation of all our atoms no but death where we are dinner for the worm, yes.  Our physical future is worm dodo.



#68 Castiel

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 10:43 PM

It is said that matter could be created from energy, and that there may exist exotic particles.   The possibility of time crystals hasn't been ruled out, the idea of the finitude of the possible suggests all positive eventualities might be encodable in a finite set of information.    You have to believe that any possible synthesizable particle will be subject to decay, that the medium of the universe will not cede to extreme physical interaction.

 

Again even right now, we've got potential eternal constructs of change, time crystals, eternal black hole, controlled universal collapse.

 

For example, it seems you believe you know physics better than Tipler. Because IIRC, some of Tipler's conclusion_s derive|s from his understanding of physics as inevitable.

 

Of course my belief is that religious message-s and history, if it-they has^have anything to do with reality, is~are nonsensical.   Doesn't mean it can't be purposeful nonsense, and filled with evident contradiction just to make this obvious to higher intellects.


Edited by Castiel, 30 September 2016 - 10:48 PM.


#69 shadowhawk

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Posted 01 October 2016 - 04:29 AM

I am a big fan of Tipler but I have exhausted this topic and there is no use discussing could have, would of, should have and while discussing the physical the conversation now turns to the unreliability of religion.!!! Nonsense.   Tipler does not believe matter will be destroyed but does have a Christian approach not unlike my own.  But then this is about the physical only.  I mentioned the book by Dr Paul Davis "THE MATTER MYTH," which along with Tipler has shaped part of my understanding.  However this is off topic and beyond the topic as you created it.  If you want to discuss this from a religious perspective I would be happy to in the religion section where we have already had many related discussions. 



#70 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 01 October 2016 - 06:58 AM

Those ways we do know physically are not looking very good.  Is death in our physical future.  Assuming room temperature seems based on existing evidence highly probable.  Annihilation of all our atoms no but death where we are dinner for the worm, yes.  Our physical future is worm dodo.

 

No. The ways not to die are looking physically good, and the only problem is tehnical, e.g. how exactly to do it.

 

The same is today. Many reasons for human death are already preventable. If you lived in the stone age, you would talk how impossible it is to stop the death from wild animal attacks, and how people always will die at the age of 40 from hunger. It is not us the lalala. You are the one who says lalala.



#71 shadowhawk

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Posted 01 October 2016 - 09:09 PM

Well you have no evidence.  I have tracked supercentarinans for years and unless you are a small woman skinny and under 5' your odds are extremely small.  There are fewer of them than 15 ears ago.  So your chances of living to 110 are not very good.  Certainly if you reach 200 and no one is, in the scheme of things that is nothing as far as time goes.  So no evidence and even the best case is presently theory.  This may look good to you but I think you have drunk the cool aid.  Not that I do not want to extend life.  I have a very restricted diet with a detailed and researched stack.  I am a member of SENSUS and Longecity for a number of years.  I have been studying Life Extension for many years.  I do not think a rational person can claim death is indefinitely preventable.  All things that are only physical are heading for EQUILIBRIUM or death.  It is a good thing to desire life.  It is called preservation.  On the other hand, the worm awaits all who are only physical.



#72 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 07:50 AM

Not available for me does not mean not possible per se



#73 Castiel

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 08:48 AM

They say metformin might allow 120 year lifespans

 

In any case we've got plenty of high quality stuff that's promising and wasn't available decades ago.   The thing is, you've got two positions.  One e-eking out every extra year or decade requires inordinate ever more effort with vast genetic modifications needed.  Or two the longer lived an animal is the closer it is to biological immortality, negligible senescence and the fewer the number of changes needed to transition into an ageless state that might lasts centuries or millenia with minimal aid.

 

I'm of the second view, it might be that even things that tweak gene expression in humans, like a suitable drug combo, might allow for a transition into agelessness given how long we live.



#74 shadowhawk

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 01:08 AM

Not available for me does not mean not possible per se

It is of no importance.  Not practical as far as your life is concerned.  Everything purely physical eventually achieves room temperature and dies. 



#75 shadowhawk

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 01:16 AM

They say metformin might allow 120 year lifespans

 

In any case we've got plenty of high quality stuff that's promising and wasn't available decades ago.   The thing is, you've got two positions.  One e-eking out every extra year or decade requires inordinate ever more effort with vast genetic modifications needed.  Or two the longer lived an animal is the closer it is to biological immortality, negligible senescence and the fewer the number of changes needed to transition into an ageless state that might lasts centuries or millenia with minimal aid.

 

I'm of the second view, it might be that even things that tweak gene expression in humans, like a suitable drug combo, might allow for a transition into agelessness given how long we live.

 

Metformin is a old drug I take twice a day.  I am all for advances in medicine but I do not expect immortality.  Look at yourself in the mirror.  You are rapidly ageing.  Take your c60 and perhaps a few years.
 



#76 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 04:53 AM

 

Not available for me does not mean not possible per se

It is of no importance.  Not practical as far as your life is concerned.  Everything purely physical eventually achieves room temperature and dies. 

 

 

And yet, it is not impossible per se. 



#77 Castiel

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 12:12 PM

 

They say metformin might allow 120 year lifespans

 

In any case we've got plenty of high quality stuff that's promising and wasn't available decades ago.   The thing is, you've got two positions.  One e-eking out every extra year or decade requires inordinate ever more effort with vast genetic modifications needed.  Or two the longer lived an animal is the closer it is to biological immortality, negligible senescence and the fewer the number of changes needed to transition into an ageless state that might lasts centuries or millenia with minimal aid.

 

I'm of the second view, it might be that even things that tweak gene expression in humans, like a suitable drug combo, might allow for a transition into agelessness given how long we live.

 

Metformin is a old drug I take twice a day.  I am all for advances in medicine but I do not expect immortality.  Look at yourself in the mirror.  You are rapidly ageing.  Take your c60 and perhaps a few years.
 

 

 

Yes I do look myself in the mirror, just a few months ago I was asked for I.D..   Several of my white hairs, the bottom half has turned black, as they've gone from white to black.  The few small wrinkles I've had, have become far less noticeable.    My supplement and eating regimen is improved over time to incorporate everything of note.

 

Barring the collapse or vast regression of the species state of technology, we're to very likely cure aging within this very century.   In the coming decades means to drastically alter aging rate are likely to come online.

 

As for whether what Tipler claims is religious or not, again he claims it emerges inetivably from the laws of physics, if I did not mishear.   That is a testable scientific claim about reality, either it is true or it is not.   It's based on faith as much as our faith in the axioms of mathematics and the laws of physics are based on faith.


 



#78 shadowhawk

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 11:36 PM

As I said I like Tipler very much but he is controversial as I am sure you know. Just washing your hands can increase lifespan, technology does not always do so.  In fact it can increase the rate  of death.  We kill much more and easier.  Population expansion is putting humanity under great pressure. and what will be the motive to stop death?  Super Centenarians die off regularly.   Though our population has increased dramatically There have been less than 80 for a long time.  Everything only physical dies and so far you have shown no reason this is not so except some vague hope in technology.  We may solve many diseases in the coming years and also create few but there is nothing I see that overcomes this basic fact.  :unsure:



#79 Castiel

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 01:37 PM

As I said I like Tipler very much but he is controversial as I am sure you know. Just washing your hands can increase lifespan, technology does not always do so.  In fact it can increase the rate  of death.  We kill much more and easier.  Population expansion is putting humanity under great pressure. and what will be the motive to stop death?  Super Centenarians die off regularly.   Though our population has increased dramatically There have been less than 80 for a long time.  Everything only physical dies and so far you have shown no reason this is not so except some vague hope in technology.  We may solve many diseases in the coming years and also create few but there is nothing I see that overcomes this basic fact.  :unsure:

 

Biological immortality exists in nature, some say maybe even within the human body at the cellular level(neurons, iirc), if I didn't mishear, we're at the stage of vast technological change, one area is in biological technologies.

 

From advanced tissue engineering, to advanced genetic engineering, to advanced cell therapies, to brand new young organs generated through chimera research.   We're at an age, when any organ will be soon replaced by brand new organs, and the technological fields interact, such that such new organs will receive genetic tweaking and be generation 2.0, then 3.0, etc.   Theoretically, a cell therapy could be used to replace the stem cells of the body and over time the descendant cells would slowly be of a version 2.0, 3.0, etc upgrade.

 

You'd have to be blind to deny the reality of technological potential.   Already some level of hearing, movement, and sight has been given to those that lacked such.   Even the ability to remotely control devices and communicate thanks to advanced computer interfaces allow those not even able to move except for small facial or eye movements to speak and communicate.

 

You call it vague technology, but it is my knowledge of the fields and their progress.    Biologists have constantly had to reassess their views on the limits of life, with extremophiles, with the synthesis of compounds like rocket fuel components which were believed impossible within a cell, etc   The power of biological machinery has even been underestimated by many transhumanists.   The world will likely not go post biological, at least that's my opinion for now, but post evolved biology, such that synthetic biology brings the unevolvable into being.

 

As I said a mouse neuron can live twice as long as a mouse, a human neuron can last at the least 50% longer than the average human lifespan, and I'd say it's likely it will last over twice as long as a human.   At the level of single cells, even one's with extraordinary metabolic activity(which generates the byproducts that damage the cell and cause deterioration), even non-dividing cells which can't dilute garbage, we see over  120 years per cell lifespan.    The genetic instructions to repair and maintain at that level is present in every cell of the body.   Yet the body dies, in mice at half the potential lifespan of some of its very cells.

 

As I said, many biologists said that one or a few mutations would never be able to significantly lengthen lifespan, yet it was so in simpler organisms a few mutations led to drastic life extension.  The same was said about simple compounds, iirc, yet resveratrol nearly doubled the lifespan of some single celled organisms and even increased lifespan by over 50% in some short lived vertebrates, iirc. Right now I believe, as I stated non-vaguely, that the longer lived an animal the closer it is to a state of negligible senescence, some believe radical change is needed to eek out every extra year or decade, I find this unlikely.   The neuron of the mouse did not need any genetic modification to last twice as long as the mouse does, and it could likely have lived longer in a longer lived host.    I also stated non-vaguely that it may be the case that a suitable drug cocktail might be able to alter gene expression and make the final leap into the ageless state known as negligible senescence, depends how close we are to that state, evolution takes you part of the way as it increases lifespan again and again.

 

The CR experiments in monkeys, i think, were non-conclusive and gave opposite results, iirc.  So the primate data, is not clear enough.  But even in long lived dogs, iirc, we've got about 16% increase for 25% calorie reduction, haven't looked at the data closely but given that in longer lived animals it seems protein intake needs to be regulated for some of the CR parameter changes ,and given we don't know if the degree of CR was calculated appropriately, we still see a large lifespan increase, a proportional lifespan increase even in these long lived animals.   If I'm not mistaken some would have expected single digit increases even from max 65% CR in such animals. 

 

And again, some of the things I've heard about CR, calorie restriction, do not jive with it being solely a famine survival mechanic, at least from what I heard it seems.   I've heard it needs to be brought in gradually  in adult organisms or there is no life extension, iirc, yet I don't think famines, at least not all famines would be gradual affairs.   Also it scales up to 65% but needs all micronutrients to work, as I've heard insufficient micronutrient quality will abolish the effect, so it seems rare to believe an animal could scavenge an extraordinarily high nutrient quality meal of 35%and function in real world famine.  One would imagine food scarce, and needing vast scavenging, thus energy expenditure, and food quality should likely suffer as something's affecting food production.   So the idea of an animal accomplishing such in nature at least to the extremes permissible seem questionable.

 

Death is rest, but given that one is composed of immortal indestructible information, it  seems unlikely to be a permanent state.   The core, the essence of the mind is but a pattern in the physical world.  Patterns never cease to exist, they transcend the physical, they can move from substrate to substrate as happens even in the real world as the matter composing the connections in the brain is replaced over time with new matter, new physical stuff.    When you see a particular pattern, it may dissipate, but nothing stops its reformation.  Unless it were impossible, so long as there's a small possibility, given enough time the pattern will come back into being.   As a potential configuration it exists eternally, atemporally.



#80 A941

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 11:17 PM

The Idea of the universe ending and leaving nothing behind is appaling.

Hopefuly there is a way to preserve Life and information, otherwise everything was a waste of time, just like time itself.


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#81 Diocletian

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 11:51 PM

The Idea of the universe ending and leaving nothing behind is appaling.

Hopefuly there is a way to preserve Life and information, otherwise everything was a waste of time, just like time itself.

 

To me also, fortunately there is few billion or trillion years to figure something out.



#82 shadowhawk

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 11:59 PM

 

As I said I like Tipler very much but he is controversial as I am sure you know. Just washing your hands can increase lifespan, technology does not always do so.  In fact it can increase the rate  of death.  We kill much more and easier.  Population expansion is putting humanity under great pressure. and what will be the motive to stop death?  Super Centenarians die off regularly.   Though our population has increased dramatically There have been less than 80 for a long time.  Everything only physical dies and so far you have shown no reason this is not so except some vague hope in technology.  We may solve many diseases in the coming years and also create few but there is nothing I see that overcomes this basic fact.  :unsure:

 

Biological immortality exists in nature, some say maybe even within the human body at the cellular level(neurons, iirc), if I didn't mishear, we're at the stage of vast technological change, one area is in biological technologies.

 

From advanced tissue engineering, to advanced genetic engineering, to advanced cell therapies, to brand new young organs generated through chimera research.   We're at an age, when any organ will be soon replaced by brand new organs, and the technological fields interact, such that such new organs will receive genetic tweaking and be generation 2.0, then 3.0, etc.   Theoretically, a cell therapy could be used to replace the stem cells of the body and over time the descendant cells would slowly be of a version 2.0, 3.0, etc upgrade.

 

You'd have to be blind to deny the reality of technological potential.   Already some level of hearing, movement, and sight has been given to those that lacked such.   Even the ability to remotely control devices and communicate thanks to advanced computer interfaces allow those not even able to move except for small facial or eye movements to speak and communicate.

 

You call it vague technology, but it is my knowledge of the fields and their progress.    Biologists have constantly had to reassess their views on the limits of life, with extremophiles, with the synthesis of compounds like rocket fuel components which were believed impossible within a cell, etc   The power of biological machinery has even been underestimated by many transhumanists.   The world will likely not go post biological, at least that's my opinion for now, but post evolved biology, such that synthetic biology brings the unevolvable into being.

 

As I said a mouse neuron can live twice as long as a mouse, a human neuron can last at the least 50% longer than the average human lifespan, and I'd say it's likely it will last over twice as long as a human.   At the level of single cells, even one's with extraordinary metabolic activity(which generates the byproducts that damage the cell and cause deterioration), even non-dividing cells which can't dilute garbage, we see over  120 years per cell lifespan.    The genetic instructions to repair and maintain at that level is present in every cell of the body.   Yet the body dies, in mice at half the potential lifespan of some of its very cells.

 

As I said, many biologists said that one or a few mutations would never be able to significantly lengthen lifespan, yet it was so in simpler organisms a few mutations led to drastic life extension.  The same was said about simple compounds, iirc, yet resveratrol nearly doubled the lifespan of some single celled organisms and even increased lifespan by over 50% in some short lived vertebrates, iirc. Right now I believe, as I stated non-vaguely, that the longer lived an animal the closer it is to a state of negligible senescence, some believe radical change is needed to eek out every extra year or decade, I find this unlikely.   The neuron of the mouse did not need any genetic modification to last twice as long as the mouse does, and it could likely have lived longer in a longer lived host.    I also stated non-vaguely that it may be the case that a suitable drug cocktail might be able to alter gene expression and make the final leap into the ageless state known as negligible senescence, depends how close we are to that state, evolution takes you part of the way as it increases lifespan again and again.

 

The CR experiments in monkeys, i think, were non-conclusive and gave opposite results, iirc.  So the primate data, is not clear enough.  But even in long lived dogs, iirc, we've got about 16% increase for 25% calorie reduction, haven't looked at the data closely but given that in longer lived animals it seems protein intake needs to be regulated for some of the CR parameter changes ,and given we don't know if the degree of CR was calculated appropriately, we still see a large lifespan increase, a proportional lifespan increase even in these long lived animals.   If I'm not mistaken some would have expected single digit increases even from max 65% CR in such animals. 

 

And again, some of the things I've heard about CR, calorie restriction, do not jive with it being solely a famine survival mechanic, at least from what I heard it seems.   I've heard it needs to be brought in gradually  in adult organisms or there is no life extension, iirc, yet I don't think famines, at least not all famines would be gradual affairs.   Also it scales up to 65% but needs all micronutrients to work, as I've heard insufficient micronutrient quality will abolish the effect, so it seems rare to believe an animal could scavenge an extraordinarily high nutrient quality meal of 35%and function in real world famine.  One would imagine food scarce, and needing vast scavenging, thus energy expenditure, and food quality should likely suffer as something's affecting food production.   So the idea of an animal accomplishing such in nature at least to the extremes permissible seem questionable.

 

Death is rest, but given that one is composed of immortal indestructible information, it  seems unlikely to be a permanent state.   The core, the essence of the mind is but a pattern in the physical world.  Patterns never cease to exist, they transcend the physical, they can move from substrate to substrate as happens even in the real world as the matter composing the connections in the brain is replaced over time with new matter, new physical stuff.    When you see a particular pattern, it may dissipate, but nothing stops its reformation.  Unless it were impossible, so long as there's a small possibility, given enough time the pattern will come back into being.   As a potential configuration it exists eternally, atemporally.

 

Biological immortality does not exist in nature.  What does the word immortality mean?  We have already established that everything physical ends up at room temperature in the end.  We can solve disease with new methods and cures but that is far from immortality.  Something else kills us. Yes in science fiction we can violate the laws of nature but even there :)  I take c60, resvratrol, Mita Q and many more supposed life extending substances but the prognosis is not even close to immortality.   I can see I am ageing.  Death is decomposition not rest.  No one who has died can be woken up.  Other than in lala show me.  Show me a pattern, any pattern that does not loose form and decay.  It is not that I want this to happen, its happening.  So lets fantasize we live to 200.  That is beyond us at the present but in relation to immorality a drop in the bucket.  Dream on.  Death is a great teacher,  It makes things important and causes us to ask many questions. Perhaps you need to be frozen and hope some future generation will have motive enough to unfreeze you.  Even then will you age?

 



#83 shadowhawk

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 12:23 AM

 

The Idea of the universe ending and leaving nothing behind is appaling.

Hopefuly there is a way to preserve Life and information, otherwise everything was a waste of time, just like time itself.

 

To me also, fortunately there is few billion or trillion years to figure something out.

 

 

Upon what basis do you think you  have a trillion years?  Even a few hundred years would be a complete stretch.  We can think reality is either what we think we are or it is what is.  This good fortune is only to you.
 



#84 shadowhawk

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 12:53 AM

To change the focus a bit from the materialist perspective that many of my detractors have, let me introduce the idea that perhaps the material world is something radically different than what we thought was only physical.  Old line Atheists and materialists have had the old views of materialism vaporize right out from under them.  Check this out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#85 shadowhawk

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 12:57 AM

So in this reality how does mind and consciousness affect existence?



#86 Diocletian

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 09:42 AM

I don't reject possibility that we have ethernal soul and that we are already immortal, but it doesn't mean we should stop searching for physical immortality.


Edited by Diocletian, 12 October 2016 - 09:44 AM.


#87 shadowhawk

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 10:19 PM

I don't reject possibility that we have ethernal soul and that we are already immortal, but it doesn't mean we should stop searching for physical immortality.

 

The topic relates to materialism.  The video asks what is material.  Atheists claim we have no soul or spirit a position held by many here.  I broadened the question by asking what is material.  I made a statement several times, what ever is only material dies.  Is reality not just material but immaterial as well?  Does the consciousness of a seer play a part in our search for immortality? 
 



#88 Diocletian

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 10:43 PM

The topic relates to materialism.  The video asks what is material.  Atheists claim we have no soul or spirit a position held by many here.  I broadened the question by asking what is material.  I made a statement several times, what ever is only material dies.  Is reality not just material but immaterial as well?  Does the consciousness of a seer play a part in our search for immortality? 

 

I think today Quantum Physics leaves possibility that our consciousness can survive after death or that we have some kind of eternal soul, It was old Newtonian Physics that was very materialistic.


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#89 shadowhawk

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 10:52 PM

You have made an interesting point.  There is no reason if this is true, that immortality is not connected to this.



#90 shadowhawk

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 10:55 PM

Who is the "you," that survives.  We know what happens to the body.







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