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Reverse Osteoporosis

osteoporosis nexium

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#1 shifter

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 03:04 AM


Is it possible to reverse osteoporosis? My mum is in the beginning stages after years of taking nexium

 

Lowered stomach acid has resulted in lower calcium/magnesium etc absorption . In her case, she is told if she does not take nexium, that she will likely get cancer of the oesophagus from constant reflux etc

 

I was thinking she could take the Jarrows Ultra Bone Up, but is that going to throw money away if the problem is constantly lowered stomach acid and it wont get absorbed properly in the first place?

 

Is it just a matter of doubling the dose in the hope that 'some' will get through and is obviously better than none.

 

I've heard Calcium citrate could be useful as it doesn't need a high acid environment. I'd prefer an all in one calcium supplement that does it all. (Cofactor minerals and vitamins like Magnesium, D3 and K2). Is the calcium source in the Ultra Bone Up (Microcrystalline Hydroxyapatite) an easily digestible one? Or a all in one calcium supplement using calcium citrate?

 

She has a very active lifestyle so its not like lethargy is a cause.

 

 

What are the chances of someone (she is 60) actually improving bone density at this point? She's told currently it's osteopenia.... but likely to get to osteoporosis. But is the best anyone can hope for simply preventing further degradation than what is already there? Or is there a chance to improve....

 



#2 aconita

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 05:08 AM

First would be to stop nexium implementing a real solution to what seems to be described as GERD.

 

Calcium supplementation is not recommendable nor necessary.

 

Magnesium, D3 and K2 are much better options.

 

Osteoporosis or osteopenia are reversible, main cause is hormonal unbalance due to ageing and not enough load bearing activities.

 

I might suggest USP bio identical topical progesterone about 100-200mg/day and resistance training.

 

Healthy nutrition is mandatory, of course.


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#3 Heisok

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 05:22 PM

shifter, I am sorry about your mom. I am not suggesting that she go off of medication, but since aconita brought up the subject I would suggest that you look a D-Limonene capsules for consideration if only as an adjunct and if it is not contraindicated for some reason. Life Extension covered it back in 2006, but a year or so ago discontinued the product EsophaGuard 1000 mg due to the manufacturer they used stopping. Swansons has D-Limonene  capsules which are 250 mg in MCT oil (Usually on their buy 1 get 1 free). Jarrow has d-Limonene 1000 mg.

 

If she has any breakthrough symptoms in spite of the Nexium, maybe at the least those might be stopped. (At best, later approach the Dr. about Nexium discontinuation) I would suggest the Swansons first at 4 per day as it is less concentrated. The Jarrow is very strong when I opened a capsule. My wife was able to stop medication for GERD years ago after using the EsophaGuard. She takes the Swansons periodically when she feels that she needs it. It seems like just a short course of it every few months. A friend of my brothers lost his insurance for his GERD medication, and was suffering greatly from the effects of GERD. Strong symptoms. He used the Swansons, and has gotten rid of the symptoms long term. I think he takes it every day as a long term supplement.

 

Good luck, and sorry if going off your main topic is a problem.

 

Please read this:

 

http://www.lifeexten...haguard/Page-01

 

"Based on both anecdotal and as yet unpublished clinical research studies, the intake of just one 1000-mg capsule of this purified d-limonene every other day for 20 days has been shown to reduce or eliminate GERD symptoms in most people for six months or longer.5

There is no clearly established mechanism by which d-limonene is so effective. Researchers, however, have speculated that d-limonene works in several ways to eliminate GERD-related pain. Since d-limonene is lighter than water, it floats to the surface of gastric juices in the stomach.

Joe S. Wilkins, the Houston-area scientist who developed this natural approach to heartburn relief, believes that the minor burping that occurs with d-limonene causes this orange peel extract to be directly carried into the esophagus.13 By coating the esophagus, d-limonene may protect the esophagus against caustic contents that would have otherwise been regurgitated from the stomach. D-limonene may promote quicker movement of food and gastric juices out of the stomach so that these esophageal irritants do not promote as much reflux.

D-limonene may also provide a barrier in the stomach and esophagus against bacterial infection.13 It is well established that stomach cancer risk is increased in those infected with the H. pylori bacteria.14 Finally, d-limonene may reduce the amount of gastric juices that reflux (regurgitates) back into the esophagus.13

 

 


Edited by Heisok, 08 December 2016 - 05:22 PM.

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#4 niner

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 07:45 PM

Shifter, I've been dealing with osteopenia for years, and have tried just about every supplemental (plus diet and exercise) approach available.  For me, there was no substitute for pharmaceuticals.  That was the only thing that got my bone mineral density back to a healthy level.  I had good results with Actonel, an oral  bisphosphonate that I took weekly.  I stopped using it for a few years and my BMD plummeted back to near osteoporosis levels.  I'm now using Prolia, an anti-resorptive agent that you take as an injection every six months.  It costs about two grand a year, compared to maybe a couple hundred for a bisphosphonate.  The ultimate pharmaceutical option is Forteo.  Ultimate hassle (daily injections), ultimate cost (20-30 grand a year), but it provides the best bone architecture and strength.  Good luck with both the osteopenia and GERD problems.  It would be great if your mom can solve the GERD, because proton pump inhibitors and extreme acid-lowering have their own set of problems.  ps: I used Jarrow's BoneUp for a while, but stopped because I don't like the high copper content.


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#5 JustGetMeIntoSpace

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 07:38 AM

All three of these men have studies reversing plaque and have good track records and have books out.  I have read all of their books and each of them takes a different slant, but you will see great info that will help you in each one:

 

1.  Dr. K Lance Gould, Heal Your Heart

 

2.  Dr. Dean Ornish, several books out

 

3.  Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease

 

All of them have also achieved tremendous reductions in CVD events such as angina, procedure and, of course, actual heart attacks.  

 

A few items of interest:

 

--All are low fat.

 

--Dr Gould's diet is flexitarian; Dr. Ornish is vegetarian; Dr. Esselstyn's is vegan.

 

--Dr. Gould uses stains with a low fat diet; Dr. Esselstyn uses a statin in a small percentage of his patients.

 

Exercise is important to lower triglycerides on a low fat diet.  If you exercise, you have low LDL-C and low triglycerides - a powerful combination.


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#6 shifter

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 07:55 AM

From what she told me, it is not just GERD and now barrett's oesophagus. If that makes a prognosis any different. She is happy to try the d-limonene though.

I'll let her know about the other things to try Actonel or others but cost is certainly a factor

#7 AlephNull

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 10:39 AM

In addition to any medications or supplements, you might have her enroll in a program that iincorporates resistance training.

Evidently there's good evidence for resistance training helping to increase bone mass.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/9927006/

#8 RWhigham

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 11:52 PM

K-citrate (K=potassium) for bone loss:

  • Studies with 90 mmol per day of K-citrate supplementation show that it could reverse osteoporosis.
  • Studies using 60 mmol per day have diverse effects, some look good for osteoporosis, some not.
  • Studies using less than 60 mmol per day of K-citrate supplementation usually show no benefit on bones.

Units:      

Molar mass of K-citrate = 306.4 g/mol. So 90 mmol is 0.090x306.4 = 27.6 g K-citrate

Bulk K-citrate powder weighs about 5.9 g/tsp. It is slightly hydroscopic, so the K-citrate part is about 5.5 g/tsp.

90 mmol/d of K-citrate = 27.6g/5.5g = 5.0 tsp/d of pure K-citrate powder.

1 molecule of K-citrate has 3 atoms of K. So 90 mmol of K-citrate has 270 mmol of K atoms.

Atomic mass of K = 39.1 g/mol. So 90 mmol of K-citrate has 270/39.1 =  6.9 g K atoms

For comparison, typical US intake of K atoms is about 2.7 g/d. Adding dietary K gives 6.9+2.7 = 9.6 g/d of K atoms. RDA is 4.7 g/d

 

Theory:

The theory is that the calcium that is needed to buffer blood pH is taken from the bones and lost in the urine when urine is acidic, and that is prevented by alkaline urine. 

 

From personal experience, 60 mmol per day is marginal to alkalinize urine, where 90 mmol per day alkalinizes it quite well. [Tested by watching the color when a drop of General Hydroponics pH indicator hits the toilet. green=alkaline red=acidic]

 

At least 1 epidemiological study based on diet questionnaires found that a less acidic diet corresponded to less osteoporosis. Another placebo controlled study that lasted 2 yr did not detect a difference based on diet alone. My take: with dietary means alone, urine can be a little less acidic, but is not likely to shift all the way to alkaline.

 

Mg-acetate for alkaline urine:  

90 mmol per day (5 tsp/d) of K-citrate powder will quickly kill you if your kidneys aren't working right.

Even with good kidneys, I did not feel comfortable taking 5 tsp/d of K-citrate. I found an alternate that works even better. I add 15 tbsp of clear Mg-acetate solution containing 1.8 g of Mg & 15.7 g of acetate to my 1.5L water pitcher. Then I throw in 1 tsp of K-citrate powder (2.5 g of K), and 1 tsp of MSM powder (for joints).  This is very alkalinizing. The pH drops in the toilet turn bright green all day. Mg-acetate solution is made by mixing 1 tbsp MOM (milk of magnesia) and 12 tbsp of white vinegar. After a mild exothermic reaction, the cloudy mixture turns clear.

 

I will have a new bone scan a year from now, and compare to the scan from a year ago. Meanwhile, my bisphosphonate prescription is sitting on the shelf while I see if this works. 

 

(1) Increased BMD shown with 90 mmol/d of K-citrate - study lasted 2 yrs. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3578058/ "Potassium citrate supplementation results in sustained improvement in calcium balance in older men and women" Journal of Bone and Mineral Research, Mar 2013  (52 men & women studied, half given placebo)

 
(2) Positive calcium balance shown with 90 mmol/d of K-citrate - 1 mo lab study

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/11994333 "Potassium citrate prevents increased urine calcium excretion and bone resorption induced by a high sodium chloride diet" The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, May 2002. (After 1 mo of increased salt intake, the K-citrate group's calcium balance shifted to positive. The control group's calcium balance shifted further negative.)

 

(3) Positive results with 60 mEq of K-citrate - 2 yr study  (Note: 60 mEq is 60 mmol for K-citrate)

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23162100 "Effect of potassium citrate on bone density, microarchitecture, and fracture risk in healthy older adults without osteoporosis: a randomized controlled trial" The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Jan 2013.  201 older adults (age > 60) were studied for 24 mo  "Our results suggest that treatment with an alkaline salt, such as potassium citrate, can reduce bone resorption"
 
(4) Positive resuts for about 1 tsp of "K-citrate" (18 mmol) - possibly a typo on the dosage
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15255069 "Effects of potassium citrate supplementation on bone metabolism." Calcified Tissue International, Apr 2004. "Our results suggest that treatment with an alkaline salt, such as potassium citrate, can reduce bone resorption .." According to the article they only gave 0.1 g/kg of "K-citrate" - about 1 tsp/d of K-citrate for a 120 lb woman. The results are more consistent with 0.1 g/kg of "K"  - about 5 tsp of K-citrate for a 120 lb woman (about 90 mmol/d).

Edited by RWhigham, 11 December 2016 - 12:10 AM.

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#9 RWhigham

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 04:47 AM

 

 

1 molecule of K-citrate has 3 atoms of K. So 90 mmol of K-citrate has 270 mmol of K atoms.

Atomic mass of K = 39.1 g/mol. So 90 mmol of K-citrate has 270/39.1 =  6.9 g K atoms

For comparison, typical US intake of K atoms is about 2.7 g/d. Adding dietary K gives 6.9+2.7 = 9.6 g/d of K atoms.

 

Math error correction:

1 molecule of K-citrate has 3 atoms of K. So 90 mmol of K-citrate has 270 mmol of K atoms.

Atomic mass of K = 39.1 g/mol. So 90 mmol of K-citrate has 0.270 mol x 39.1 g/mol = 10.5 g K atoms

Typical US dietary intake of K atoms is about 2.7 g/d. Adding dietary K  2.7 g/d + 10.5 g/d = 13.2 g/d.

 


Edited by RWhigham, 11 December 2016 - 05:03 AM.


#10 bocor

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 03:06 PM

Why is no one mentioning vitamin k? Specifically the 45 mg per day studies?

#11 david ellis

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 06:13 PM

Why is no one mentioning vitamin k? Specifically the 45 mg per day studies?

Just what I was thinking.  Here is one way to improve arterial elasticity and strong bones - use Koncentrated K, one capsule is 35mg MK-4, 5mg K1, 0.5mg MK7.     



#12 pamojja

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 06:31 PM

 

Why is no one mentioning vitamin k? Specifically the 45 mg per day studies?

 

Just what I was thinking.  Here is one way to improve arterial elasticity and strong bones - use Koncentrated K, one capsule is 35mg MK-4, 5mg K1, 0.5mg MK7.     

 

 

Actually only 25mg Mk-4, and also including 2mg of Astaxanthin.

 

As a side-note. Actually feel a bid guilty about these doses. Originally when the manufacturer asked for feedback for his plan on the old TrackYourPlaque forum - where he originally intended much higher doses, like 50mg Mk-4 in one capsule - I suggested not higher then already used in studies but in divided caps. So that the final product would find a wider range of customers, and keeping production costs down.
 



#13 david ellis

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 11:52 PM


 


 

Actually only 25mg Mk-4, and also including 2mg of Astaxanthin.

 

As a side-note. Actually feel a bid guilty about these doses. Originally when the manufacturer asked for feedback for his plan on the old TrackYourPlaque forum - where he originally intended much higher doses, like 50mg Mk-4 in one capsule - I suggested not higher then already used in studies but in divided caps. So that the final product would find a wider range of customers, and keeping production costs down.
 

 



#14 zorba990

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 05:50 AM

I like and have been taking Koncentrated K. I see there are starting to be other sources of high dose k2. Maybe we can set up a price watch thread?
Example: http://www.healthnat...ueK2-s/1874.htm

#15 aconita

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 06:23 AM

BPC 157  gastric pentadecapeptide might be relevant for your mother condition.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23220707

 

 



#16 RWhigham

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Posted 28 December 2016 - 08:30 PM

 I found an alternate that works even better. I add 15 tbsp of clear Mg-acetate solution containing 1.8 g of Mg & 15.7 g of acetate to my 1.5L water pitcher.

Correction

15 tbsp of Mg-acetate solution in 1.5L of water is a bit too strong for me. I add it to 3L of water. The Mg-acetate thread, https://groups.googl...arb/_uq0_cS24SM  "The Magnesium Acetate discovery by Ghg", says 1.5L is the minimum dilution to make sure there are no bowel issues, but I find 3L works just fine for my alkalinizing effects.


Edited by RWhigham, 28 December 2016 - 08:31 PM.


#17 Heisok

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 04:19 PM

Hi Shifter,

 

I wanted to point out that the latest February 2017 issue of Life Extension magazine covers GERD, and Proton Pump Inhibitor treatment issues related to Kidney, and cognition issues. They do not post the full issue on line until a while after the hard copy. I was able to find the individual articles on their site by looking at the references for one of the products. The EsophaCool product looks interesting.

 

"Hidden Dangers of Heartburn Drugs"
February 2017

"In this article we will examine how proton pump inhibitors pose a hidden long-term threat to our brains. We’ll discuss natural options that can help alleviate heartburn symptoms without increasing dementia and other health risks such as bone fractures, kidney failure, and stroke."

http://www.lifeexten...Dangers/Page-01


"Hidden Factor Behind Kidney Disease Epidemic"
February 2017

http://www.lifeexten...-See-It/Page-01


"Stop Heartburn Fast! Neutralize Esophageal Acidity"
February 2017

"Heartburn afflicts more than 40% of adult Americans.
When someone suffers frequent or painful heartburn bouts, they are often diagnosed with gastroesophageal reflux disease or GERD.
There remain widespread misconceptions about the underlying cause of heartburn.
Mass-advertising of drugs such as Nexium®, Prilosec®, and Prevacid® has convinced GERD sufferers that to relieve symptoms, they need to block production of acid in the stomach.
But the human stomach must operate in acidic conditions to digest food properly. And long-term use of GERD drugs (proton pump inhibitors) involves serious health risks—ranging from kidney and cardiovascular disease to increased mortality."

http://www.lifeexten...artburn/Page-01

 

 

From what she told me, it is not just GERD and now barrett's oesophagus. If that makes a prognosis any different. She is happy to try the d-limonene though.

I'll let her know about the other things to try Actonel or others but cost is certainly a factor

 


Edited by Heisok, 07 January 2017 - 04:20 PM.


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#18 kurdishfella

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Posted 22 November 2022 - 09:08 PM

ofc. you lose about 1000mg calcium daily depending on activity and age

Edited by kurdishfella, 22 November 2022 - 09:08 PM.






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