189 replies to this topic

[jackinbox]

We can find extremist in every religion. They all want to impose their believe. Look at the creationists...

[simple]

Again, I still believe that all the problems are caused by greed, we unfortunately ended up inheriting the politics of expansionism from the British, Deutch..., from beggining of the century, ours is no longer for expansion of the empire, at least not a physicall empire, but to forge economicall ties and indebtness that will benefit us.

Just look at the World Bank, most South American countries, are soo in debt, they cant even affords to pay the interest on the loans, do remember that in order to receive loans for your country you have to allow for some manipulation of the internal politics, that, the International bank will indicate, is like borrowing money and the Lendor showing up to your house and telling you what you can or can not do in your home!!!!!!!

For you that are interested in this issue, please notice that in most recent elections across South America, the puppet military governments are no longer been heeded, all the new comers in the Presidency are socialist !!

And dont forget the intended coup d'tat in Venezuela, we were behind it, what is worse, the Venezuelans new it !!

[JonesGuy]

First off, I think that Infernity has more reason to be afraid than the rest of us, because she lives in a place that's been marked for destruction.

This whole incident with the cartoons was worrying, mainly because how a) the media gave more exposure to the violence than the calls for peace and b) how clearly there's a miscommunication in the ME about how the government and freedom of the press works in the West.

Islam does seem to have elements that allow it to be more radical than other religions, but I'm quite convinced that integration is the key. There's no way that people can remain loyal to this type of dogma after they've been exposed to freedom - sure the adults might be dogmatic, but the offspring will likely have motivation to reinterpret the writings to be less scary.

The biggest issue is communication. It's really hard to communicate with 'common people' from Iran, and we (like them) tend to think that actions by individuals have the support of the governments.

[simple]

QJONES: sorry I was out of track, ideally you would like to have the Muslim people adopt a more civilezed view of the world and their neighbors, as you mention:

"There's no way that people can remain loyal to this type of dogma after they've been exposed to freedom - sure the adults might be dogmatic, but the offspring will likely have motivation to reinterpret the writings to be less scary."

People DO remain loyal to dogmas, it is even scarier that many afroamericans follow the same (a process of cultural identification??), in the middle of our country we have the Nation of Islam, and I have spoken with many members, and this guys in the middle of the 21st century, they do believe that white people were invented at a lab by a mad scientist!!!

Explain that one to me

Yes i would much prefer a moderaste Islam like Turkey or stronger control, such as in Egypt.

[rodentman]

Wow, this topic could've been SOOO good, but its gotten OFF-topic.

I don't believe all religions are equal and are all an equal threat.

Millitant Islam (which has become more prominent in recent years in muslim countries) has a distinct advantage of institutional brainwashing at every level. Just like the third reich, everything is programed from the preschool on up.

In the west, we may get bombarded by religion unwantingly, but were not going to get killed if we don't convert, and we can even pass on our secular beliefs to our kids.

Militant Islam is growing quickly (as it has in the past), their institutions are popping up all over Europe. The things that are being taught and re-inforced in their schools are unbelievably parallel to nazism. Its no wonder Mein Kampf is a best-seller in Turkey.

I don't think the threat will be that they will nuke us. It will be that they will eventually outnumber us, and that their policy will become our policy, and that our grandkids will learn the way they did.

I think its a SMALL threat, since western principles of capitalism can usually pierce through nearly any culture. But its still a threat that should be acknowledged.

RodentMan

[DJS]

Putin has no problems. He can rule for another 20 years. Heh.. He is a hardcore KGB field agent visiting an old money ex-drunk, duty-evading, born again Christian with an IQ that makes Dan Quayle look like a regular genius. You couldn't come up with a better set of characters in a Ludlum book.

*Don laughs milk out his nose* [lol]

[boundlesslife]

It all sounds very good, if you have a job that gets to pay for your Harley, I live in San Diego, the MEDIAN cost of a Home is 600 k, last year I made 70K, funny I cant make ends meet, I would have to take in at least 140K with a 20% down in order to afford a condominium,, wich I do not have

I drive an 87 Bronco II, pay rent and take my kids to school (not private) I worked for Qualcomm, they sold their share to Kyocera, it was not profitable, after two years Kyocera moved their plant to Tijuana Mexico they needed to cut costs, after they moved the company to Mexico, they couldnt compete, they went belly up, I worked for Sony, they moved out to Brazil, same reasons as above, I worked for Sanyo, they were 10 dollars above chinese made product, even that chinese were paying for Shippiong overseas, 3 years later they close their doors, Where do you live ???

Currently I outsource products from my company, I lived in China 3 years, Hong Kong and mainland, WE CAN NOT COMPETE with their prices, the only thing that is currently holding them down, is that they do not have sufficient technology, so their products are basic, but is only a matter of time, wake up and smell the coffe, we are going down, it is no longer attractive for high end scientists to work in USA, we are loosing our ground steadily, and I am very sorry to see it everyday

Keep riding your harley, all this will not happen in your time, but we have become fat and leazy, and you better have some money stached away, otherwise you will not be able to retire, my friend.

The reason I've quoted this entire posting by simple is that it is blunt and direct evidence of what a number of writers are pointing to as a virtually inevitable nightmare of economic devastation that is coming at us (especially the 'U.S.') like a tsunami.

Some of the more detailed books on this are (links to Amazon.Com):

The World is Flat
China, Inc.
Three Billion New Capitalists

The comments by simple bring this into focus very, very clearly, in the most immediate sense!

I've wondered, "Can it really be as bad as these books all forecast?"

They're projecting what's coming from different backgrounds, and areas of detailed review, but there is no basic disagreement in the conclusions.

Simple has put it all into a single, clear-cut, concrete example, with his own life as the spyglass, and it's a perfect match with the content of those three books.

This really is something to worry about (and prepare for), if you plan on living a long, long time!

boundlesslife

[simple]

Thanks Man!!

[olaf.larsson]

rodentman wrote: "In the west, we may get bombarded by religion unwantingly, but were not going to get killed if we don't convert." How can you be so sure? Beeing harassed, beaten and raped by a intolerant muslim majority is bad enough by the way. This is already everyday life for many eurpean people unfortunate enough to live in cities with high procentage of muslims.

[biknut]

prometheus,

FUCKIN A

I like it! Except the part about the Democrats.

[dorian gray]

We can find extremist in every religion. They all want to impose their believe. Look at the creationists...

This is true. However, while Christian creationists may want to return society to the mores and values of the 1950's, Islam seeks to bring the world back to the dark-ages, circa 1150.

Radical Islam and the Survival of the West
By Ron Banerjee, February 19, 2006:
The global reaction to the recent cartoons of Muhammad in Denmark is part of a familiar pattern. In 2004, a Dutch filmmaker named van Gogh was shot dead by Islamic fanatics because he made a film which dared to question the treatment of women in Islam. Similarly, global violence and death threats accompanied the publication of Salman Rushdie’s book, the Satanic Verses. His Norwegian publisher, William Nygaard, was shot by Islamic fanatics in his own country. Every supposed ‘insult’ to Islam leads to violence, murder, and threats.
Read More: http://www.faithfree...nerjee60219.htm

[Karomesis]

I find the notion that "extreme" versions of religion are to be avoided, a childish veiw which does not take into account the fact that ALL religion is "extreme".

let me say this again for those of you(and you know who you are) who belive in invisible pink unicorns that fly around the moon.

ALL RELIGION IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT.


There may be aspects of an individuals belief in these fairy tales which does, in its application cause some health benefits, That is all I will concede in light of the scientific evidence which has been presented, however, that is certainly not nearly enough compensation for the MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of people who have been, murdered, mutilated, raped, pillaged, cleansed, or otherwise suffered an unfortunate side effect of these ridiculous beliefs.

This applies to every belief which has no basis in reality, including the following, buddhism, christianity, zoroanastrianism, muslims,judaism, paganism, and any other fairy tale I failed to mention.

prometheus, the religions change, in accordance with societal values as doth the seasons, what does it matter?
could you perhaps enlighten me as to what is, and has been since time immemoria,l a correct application of religious values and other nonsense? nitpicking this or that change of religiously imposed bullshit has little value in light of the fact that all of it is absurd to begin with.

[rodentman]

WOLFRAM, I have many friends in Denmark (most of them danish-vietnamese), and they share your concerns.

PROMETHIUS, you always crack me up. How did I know you were gonna bring up the past. Hey, did you know 300 years ago, Indian women were required to throw themselves on their husband's funeral pyre?? WHO CARES?!?!?! This topic isn't 'THREATS TO LIFE 300 years ago.'!!!!

If you cannot realise that living (TODAY) in a millitant muslim country deprives you of many of the basic human liberties that we take advantage of here in the west, then your beyond help.

Yes, the west can be anoying, our music sucks, judeo-christians can be overly-rightous, many of us are zionists, and YES, we are overweight slobs,

BUT, I'll take that anytime. I love having the freedom to raise my kids the way I want, and read what I want, and blabber on about meaningless posts that are completely purposeless, and that nobody will ever read!!!

RODENTMAN

[Infernity]

JESUS BLEEDING CROSS.

[lol] Haven't looked at this thread for what is it? two days? Gawd I have some to read. Will make time and ... comment. Later

-Infernity

[boundlesslife]

Our retirement is in shambles, so is our education (you seem to be good proof of it ), jobs are scarce and we are paying up the nose for gas, even after the so called "liberation ", and only certain "Administration friendly companies" are lining their pockets with gold in all this mess

Am I wrong on what I see??

No!

I think what you see is very much like what is portrayed in the very beginning of "Gone with the Wind", where the 'Old South' is, certain and arrogant about the righteousness of its practice of slavery, just about to 'lose virtually everything that made that epoch what it was', in terms of many things taken for granted at that time, such as large, elegant plantations owned by wealthy land-barons, a vigorous slave-trading industry, and vast perceptions of differences in human-worth of different races, that in fact had no basis at all.

boundlesslife

The books indicated in an earlier Posting are a clear description of what is coming, for those (and there are many U.S. readers of them) who are looking clearly at these issues.

[rodentman]

SIMPLE AND BOUNDLESS LIFE!!!

YES, the U.S. and the WEST will become less relevant in the global economy of the future. WHY IS THIS SO BAD!!! WHY IS THIS A THREAT TO OUR LIVES. We represent only a sliver of the total population. What would you rather have the 4 billion Asians do? live in a closed-off agrarian economy like North Korea or .... contribute and compete with the west; with breakthroughs in technology and health.

I'm surpised to hear this sentiment in an immortality-based topic. The key to immortality is medical breakthroughs... The more nations that contribute to this, the larger the pool of research, and the higher the possibility of real breakthroughs in the foreesable future. I personally think the west's past monopoly on research has been harmful in the big scheme of things.



(YES I AM AN EVIL GLOBALIST)
moohhhoooohahhhhaahah (EVIL LAUGH)
Rodentman

[biknut]

I really don't see the problem either. Yea, maybe we'll make less money, but everything will cost less too so it won't really matter. There will always be jobs that need to be done, they're just going to be different jobs.

Buggy whip employee's got jobs in automobile factory's.

When the airlines deregulated back in the 80s, cargo men like me became air conditioning contractors.

[simple]

Dude!!!, you guys still dont see it, if our money gets reduced, everything suffers, city's cant repair sewage or water, because money is not there, corruption at government, cause money is not enough to keep 'rolling, .

If our power gets reduced everything decays, like we will become a 3rd world nation as chety as Mexico or France, as disgruntled and tax ridden as Italy or Argentina, already America is for sale, and Americans can not afford to buy, wait for the sleeping giants to wake up.

And money is power.

Rodentman, yes we are but a sliver of todays population, but we also represent one of the most civilized cultures of the world, when people think of Democracy, is USA, when people try to migrate legally or ilegally, because of freedom, money or just hope, is not to europe or middleeast, is to USA. Where else can we express ourselves as we do ?

It is true, nothing is for free, nothing is given away to the new comers in to this nation, it does not promise instant riches, but is the only country that gives you HOPE, to attain your dreams and to be whatever you want to be, no other culture in the world gives you that, there has been no culture like ours in the past and once we are gonne there is not going to be no nation like us again.

[biknut]

Stop worrying. America will never go into decline unless everyone else is a lot worse off.

When I was younger I use to love to Read Robert A. Heinlein books. One of my favorites was Methuselah's Children. It should be required reading on this board. I can't remember for sure but I think in that story it talked about how at some point the economy had to get bucked up in order to make space exploration possible.

Space Exploration is exactly what that "old money ex-drunk, duty-evading, born again Christian with an IQ that makes Dan Quayle look like a regular genius" Bush, is pushing for right now with moon and mars bases. This is just the very very beginning. America will be the leader in space exploration and will be the first to benefit from mining and space manufacturing and other discovery's. China can make the TV set's.

Anyone on our side has nothing to fear.

[biknut]

We will drag the entire world, kicking and screaming into a new economy by out sourcing jobs for space exploration equipment. A lot of new jobs will be off world too.

America's world, love it or leave it. hahaha

[rodentman]

SIMPLE

listen, the only way our power will be maintained (relative to other countries), is if we can magically supress the other 95% of the world. THere was a time when the U.S. was wealthier than all the rest of the world combined. But that was back in the late 50's when much of the East was under communist control, and Europe was falling into the grips of quasi-socialism.

What did we get out of that???? Bragging rights??? Thats about it. What if the rest of the world had a first-world capitalist economy such as ours over the last 50 years? My god, we'd be decades ahead of where we are now technologically. (Yes, I know we'd be more poluted too)

I agree with you that it sucks that we are losing are specialness, but don't lose site of the big picture; In 50 or so years, if there aren't any major aging breakthroughs, then you and I are gonna be PUSHING UP DAISIES!! Our planet needs to be working on as many cylinders as possible.

Anyway, this brings me back full circle here on this discussion. This is why I think the way I do. This is why I see what happends in Argentina and France (well maybe not France), and say geesh, what a waste. This is why I hate communism with such a passion.


BIKNUT

Don't try to convince Promethius that Bush is not a brain-dead zionist drunk, whatever he said.... You'll have an easier time convincing an Orthodox Jew to convert to Islam. HAHAHAHA

[mitkat]

Rodentman, yes we are but a sliver of todays population, but we also represent one of the most civilized cultures of the world, when people think of Democracy, is USA, when people try to migrate legally or ilegally, because of freedom, money or just hope, is not to europe or middleeast, is to USA. Where else can we express ourselves as we do ?

It is true, nothing is for free, nothing is given away to the new comers in to this nation, it does not promise instant riches, but is the only country that gives you HOPE, to attain your dreams and to be whatever you want to be, no other culture in the world gives you that, there has been no culture like ours in the past and once we are gonne there is not going to be no nation like us again.

Care to explain these statements a little more indepth?

When I think of the pinnacle of democracy, of the most "civilized cultures of the world" (and what context is that?), I absolutely do not think of the states. "It is the only country that gives you hope"... I'm not sure if this is pure patriotism or just plain ignorance. Nothing is given away to new comers in your nation, that's very true. And yes, what a coloured and original past the United States has indeed, just don't try to glorfiy it, okay? I really don't want to start an argument, but these kinds of statements are not well thought. Can I borrow your rose-coloured glasses? Americana is one-sided, tired, and pretty fucking corny.

[rodentman]

You are right Mitkat. In fact, I just saw a movie about Americans in Turkey. Apperently we eat muslim body parts for lunch, and were all a bunch of homosexuals. In fact, you look pretty handsome; lets go watch Brokeback Mountain together and eat some Kentuckey Fried Soylent Green!

BikNut.

America won't rule space! I will!!!!!!

RodentMan

[mitkat]

Yeah, I was the producer/director in Istanbul. And you messed up your words a little, I think you meant to say "we beat muslims and homosexuals".

p.s - Thank you, but I'm taken. [sad]

[rodentman]

Ooooohhh, I like that nasty talk you bad boy. I'd love to give you a nice beating right now.

[th3hegem0n]

The key to immortality is medical breakthroughs

Hah.

False. (no, really!)

Google: Technological Singularity

[simple]

Guys, you still dreaming of liberty and equality for all nations, theres always going to be some greedy bastartd that is going to take over the weakest neighbor, that we have become the police of the world , just becasuse everyone turns their eyes (and their hands) to us when help is needed, I dont see things rosy, we have been able to impose our democracy through MONEY and SUPERIOR FIREPOWER.

Is this bad for you?, well that depends if you are in the giving or receiving end, ultimately wars are good for the economy and technology

We are not the pinnacle of democracy, but we have set the precedents for most everything that surrounds you, (funny to see Talibans, wearing Jeans, we invented them!!, we knock Germany, France and England in the weapons manufacturing, we hold the richest entrepreneurs of the world, thanks to liberty of action and expression, wich is a quality of total democracy, our stores overflow from goods from all the nations, our music and culture flows your ears and eyes, the clothing center of the world is not France or Italy, is downtown LA!!, there is no language that doesn't have an american word (how do you say laptop in German?)

Our presence has marked the world. for good and bad.