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Biological Age

anti-aging

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#1 soulprogrammer

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 06:13 AM


Is there a way to test one's biological age using blood test or via other methods?

 

"Before he started taking a 500mg NMN pill every morning, 47-year-old Professor Sinclair had his blood tested and was told his body had a biological age of 58.

After consuming NMN for three months, he was tested again and his biological age was 32."

Source: http://www.dailymail...ixir-youth.html

 

How Prof Sinclair determined his biological age using blood test? What markers tell his age?

 

Or is this biological age discussed somewhere? Please point me to the proper thread then. Thanks


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#2 Dorian Grey

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 03:57 AM

I saw a program on TV about measuring biological age and saw "DNA Methylation" on the print-out the guy was holding. 

 

Never heard of this & gave it a google.  Didn't find much of anything specific regarding DNA Methylation and biological age though.  

 

"DNA Methylation Errors" is the closest I could find that seems to be pertinent to the topic.  Epigenetics?  Mitochondrial DNA degradation?  

 


Edited by synesthesia, 25 April 2017 - 04:15 AM.


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#3 soulprogrammer

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 06:25 AM

Could creatinine level, IGF-1, insulin, cholesterol, ... combination of all a measure of biological age?

 

BTW, I dont understand why someone is marking my post as Timewasting?  The person who mark my post as Timewasting please clarify why you do so? 

 

Well, I dont understand how Prof Sinclair measure his biological age, and I am asking a question here, so how is my post Timewasting???


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#4 Oakman

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 04:11 PM

Your post is not pointless and timewasting...unless someone doesn't care about what you are asking, and so what's the point of the rating from them? Who knows?

 

Anyway, this is a difficult problem, but many have tried to determine actual vs. chronological age through various means. As far as Sinclair, I don't know, but is his method any more valid than others? No one knows. He may have chosen a metric that shows improvement with NMN or perhaps he has access to something most would not due to his research.

 

Regardless, I have been looking and trying various non-invasive method for some time, typically either questionnaires or physical tests. Generally they come up with similar, though not exactly the same answers. So thinking as a mathematician, I would say that doing a number of different tests that have been developed and then averaging the results would lead to the most accurate number. Since there are several questions based tests, this can become quite an easy armchair adventure. Then add in some of the physical testing results, and you'll be getting closer to what is (at least at the current state of this endeavor) your biological age.

 

Personally, I love these tests as they invariably put me 10-30 years pre my chronological age!  Hopefully that's not simply by their design :) but rather due to my lifestyle, diet, and genes. BTW I just did a brief google to get these links, and I took most of them, with good results! Enjoy.

 

Some examples:

 

http://hcamidwest.co...al-age-test.dot           RealAge Test

http://www.biological-age.com/                                             Biological Age Test

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zg3hk7h                                   What's My Real Age

http://growyouthful....gettestinfo.php                                Biological Age Test (#2)

 

 

A New Way To Test Your ‘Biological’ Age
Measuring Biological Age via Metabonomics: The Metabolic Age Score

Health Assessment Tools

 


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#5 soulprogrammer

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 02:18 AM

Anyway, this is a difficult problem, but many have tried to determine actual vs. chronological age through various means. ...

 

Regardless, I have been looking and trying various non-invasive method for some time, typically either questionnaires or physical tests.  ... I just did a brief google to get these links, and I took most of them, with good results! Enjoy.

 

Some examples:

 

http://hcamidwest.co...al-age-test.dot           RealAge Test

http://www.biological-age.com/                                             Biological Age Test

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zg3hk7h                                   What's My Real Age

http://growyouthful....gettestinfo.php                                Biological Age Test (#2)

 

 

A New Way To Test Your ‘Biological’ Age
Measuring Biological Age via Metabonomics: The Metabolic Age Score

Health Assessment Tools

 

 

Tried the biological-age.com questionaire, cool, it said I'm 9 years younger than my actual age!


Edited by Michael, 02 May 2017 - 10:46 PM.
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#6 soulprogrammer

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 02:22 AM

Found this one from Google: https://www.glycanage.com/

 

But how do they confirm or verify that their test is accurately measuring the biological age? 

 

GlycanAge is a simple, ground-breaking test that analyses your glycobiology. Taking a GlycanAge® test is a vital step to improving your health. Your test results enable you to become aware of and monitor your biological age. This not only offers you an accurate insight into the current state of your health but can give you the powerful tool to make an informative decisions about lifestyle choices and changes.

 

Found some info about Glycanage

 

http://www.dailymail...lly-ageing.html

 

http://www.telegraph...g-new-age-test/

 

 


Edited by soulprogrammer, 26 April 2017 - 02:27 AM.

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#7 VP.

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 11:33 PM

I think this is what you are looking for:

http://www.aging.ai/  " This is a deep-learned predictor of your age made with a deep neural network trained on hundreds of thousands anonymized human blood tests. Enter your data below and Aging.ai will guess your age and gender." 

I've used this and it said I was 39 when my real age is 56 though one of the critical blood markers was not in my panel. 

 

 

 

This is the one I think Sinclair is using. I sent in my sample yesterday. 

 

  https://www.osirisgr...roduct.php?id=1

 
 
 

Edited by VP., 27 April 2017 - 11:38 PM.

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#8 soulprogrammer

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 12:31 AM

 

I think this is what you are looking for:

http://www.aging.ai/  " This is a deep-learned predictor of your age made with a deep neural network trained on hundreds of thousands anonymized human blood tests. Enter your data below and Aging.ai will guess your age and gender." 

I've used this and it said I was 39 when my real age is 56 though one of the critical blood markers was not in my panel. 

 

 

 

This is the one I think Sinclair is using. I sent in my sample yesterday. 

 

  https://www.osirisgr...roduct.php?id=1

 
 

 

 

 

Very informative! Indeed this is what I'm looking for "http://www.aging.ai/  ".

 

One question though, if I lack a few markers, for example, Iron, can I still proceed to test?

 

 

"https://www.osirisgr...roduct.php?id=1"  This one really interesting. 

 

Please update us your test results once you receive your biological test.


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#9 VP.

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 12:44 AM

What I did for the one test that was not done on my blood was I took a mid range data point for that marker and put it in the test and I think I gained one year. Just play with the numbers to see effects.  I will post my Osiris "age" test in the Rapamycin thread when I get results. 



#10 soulprogrammer

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 05:13 AM

How old by a basic blood test!
 
Your predicted age is: 41.0 years Your predicted gender is: Male

Please enter your real age and gender to see your blood profiles and to help us develop the system

 


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#11 VP.

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 02:28 PM

 

How old by a basic blood test!
 
Your predicted age is: 41.0 years Your predicted gender is: Male

Please enter your real age and gender to see your blood profiles and to help us develop the system

 

What is your chronological age?


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#12 pamojja

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 04:25 PM

Very informative! Indeed this is what I'm looking for "http://www.aging.ai/  ".

 

Strange, my age-range must be truly in bad shape. :unsure:

 

Had a PAD diagnosed due to a 80% stenosis at my abdominal aorta bifurcation and was predicted a 30% change of dying within 5 years. That was 8 years ago, since which I did regular blood-tests and 2 years ago also reverted a government-certified 60% walking disability, mainly with consistent Linus Pauling's therapy and diet. Other conditions: prediabetes (controlled with diet), non-symptomatic COPD and countless infections: spondylodiscitis, schistosomiasis, amoebic hepatitis, 7 times malaria, psoriasis, rhinitis..

 

Entered the average values because of quite some fluctuations within 8 years, even though actually much improved during this time, still came out 1 year younger than I was 4 years ago. And they got my gender right too.
 


Edited by pamojja, 28 April 2017 - 04:28 PM.

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#13 soulprogrammer

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 02:22 AM

 

 

How old by a basic blood test!
 
Your predicted age is: 41.0 years Your predicted gender is: Male

Please enter your real age and gender to see your blood profiles and to help us develop the system

 

What is your chronological age?

 

 

Chronological Age: 47. (Shouldn't we call real age?)

 

The blood test was done about 1 month ago, the day before I started taking NR. Will do a blood test soon and see if NR indeed reverse my biological age as claim.

 

BTW, a blood marker Iron I don't have, so I  just leave it empty. It still able to estimate my biological age. So for those who want to try, if you don't have a particular marker, just leave it empty.


Edited by soulprogrammer, 29 April 2017 - 02:24 AM.


#14 Nate-2004

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 06:41 PM

I've recently become aware of this online application that tries to guess your "biological age". I've got recent blood test results but when they take your blood at the doctor's office for various general tests like lipid panels, they don't generally test for anything beyond the scope. So my question is, what do I need tested in order to get all the details needed for this AI to work accurately?  I assume I need all the 33 markers listed?

 

http://www.aging.ai/

 

Anyway, this is the official thread for discussing this site.

 

 


Edited by Nate-2004, 02 May 2017 - 06:50 PM.

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#15 Nate-2004

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:25 PM

I'm 43 now, I entered all my CMP details from last year, but I could not find "Globulins", Iron or Lactate dehydroginase so I had to fudge these. Not sure what they are or why they weren't included. I'll have to go back and get another CMP soon just to make sure. The lipid panel I got was more recent, just a couple weeks ago.

 

It says that I'm 37. I suppose that's better than saying I'm 43. 

 

I'd like to make it 30 next time, but that's a long term goal haha.

 

 


Edited by Nate-2004, 02 May 2017 - 07:25 PM.

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#16 Florian E.

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 08:03 PM

I'm also interested what "type" of blood test is needed to fill this form. 

A colleague of mine has recently participated in a medical study and gave me his current one page full of blood test markers.

But still there were many markers missing to fill out the form on aging.ai

So, generally, is a  "large haemogram" enough for all needed markers ?

Maybe we should just mail these questions directly to the aging.ai guys...


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#17 Michael

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 08:14 PM

Several things, here.
 
First, despite what people keep saying, this is not a biological age score. They used machine learning to try to get a panel of tests that would predict chronological age — that's all — and didn't do a terribly impressive job at that: the mean absolute error for getting someone's age within a 10-year frame is about six years.
 
Even if it got this spot-on, that's not remotely what people are looking for. A good biological aging score would accurately predict mortality (and preferably morbidity) in basically healthy community-dwelling people, and would do so better than their chronological age. Ideally, it would track the accelerating increase in mortality rate across the lifespan from middle-age onward. They haven't yet even attempted to do any of this yet: again, they've just tried to construct a score that correlates well with chronological age.
 
Second, as regards the extensive discussion that triggered this thread:  
 
It's very unlikely, just based on timeframe alone, that this was the test mentioned by Sinclair.
 
Even if one had a very robust biological aging score, there's no sense taking a single test as implying anything about the effects of some intervention on biological age. To do that, even on an n=1 basis, you at minimum need a pre- and post-intervention result — and better still, a pre-, a post-, and a discontinuation, to see if you had durably bent the curve. And of course, you wouldn't want to have made any other changes in the meantime.
 
I'm quite surprised to hear all the people saying that their blood tests don't include most of the components of the aging.AI. What are people getting tested? A basic cholesterol panel, complete blood count, and comprehensive metabolic panel will cover all of it: those are the absolute minimum, most important tests for anyone with any interest at all in knowing if they're going to drop dead in the next five years, let alone someone engaged in any effort to experimentally manipulate their future life expectancy. If you're doing a lot of experimental things in hopes of living longer and not monitoring these, you're a Damned Fool, and if you're ordering a bunch of fancy tests and not getting these, you are the same species of Damned Fool as a person who is slowly racking up credit card debt but makes sure s/he keeps up with hir 401(k) every month.

 

FWIW, the only decent biological aging score of which I'm aware are the composite Frailty Indexes built up in different publications by Rockwood and Mitnitski (see here, here, here, here, and here). However, it's mostly been validated in elderly people, and may not be sensitive enough for significant effects of metabolically-based interventions; it's also a much more complicated construct than a simple blood test.


I've just seen pamojja's comment that there is already a thread on this. Nate, with your permission, may I merge this thread into that?


Edited by Michael, 02 May 2017 - 08:22 PM.

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#18 VP.

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 09:05 PM

What about DNA Methylation?  

https://genomebiolog...3059-017-1203-5

 

I think it is unfair to call AI 2.0 worthless. It is what it is and I believe it is a useful tool. Just take it with a big grain of salt.

 

"Aging.AI provides a proof of concept for a simple and inexpensive blood-based predictor of chronological age, which may be used for speculate on the biological age of the patient. However, it has many limitations. When it comes to developing predictors using deep neural networks, one of the major difficulties is building large data sets. In this study we were constrained by the limited number of features available to us in large numbers of blood test results. Some of the features, for example globulin fractures, are no longer frequently used in diagnostic medicine and are excluded from the newer standard tests. However, these features were present in historical tests available in large numbers and were used for training".


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#19 Michael

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 11:04 PM

 

This is the one I think Sinclair is using. I sent in my sample yesterday. 

 

  https://www.osirisgr...roduct.php?id=1

 

Again, the timeline won't permit that. Whatever system he used has to predate his UNSW Medicine's Dean's lecture in 2014.

 

I'm 43 now, I entered all my CMP details from last year, but I could not find "Globulins", Iron or Lactate dehydroginase so I had to fudge these. Not sure what they are or why they weren't included. I'll have to go back and get another CMP soon just to make sure. The lipid panel I got was more recent, just a couple weeks ago.

 

It says that I'm 37. I suppose that's better than saying I'm 43. 

 

I'd like to make it 30 next time, but that's a long term goal haha.

 

You must surely have lactate dehydroginase. It might be there as LDH or LD.

 

Globulins should be on your CBC. Did you not get a CBC with your CMP ;) ?

 

Iron: OK, one thing not on lipids + CMP + CBC. But, again, the score is only rough for chronological risk and is not validated for biological age — so don't use it for that until it is.

 

I think it is unfair to call AI 2.0 worthless. It is what it is and I believe it is a useful tool. Just take it with a big grain of salt.

 

"Aging.AI provides a proof of concept for a simple and inexpensive blood-based predictor of chronological age, which may be used for speculate on the biological age of the patient. ".

 

Yes, let's all speculate, shall we ... ;) ?

 

I'm actually not saying that aging.AI is useless — just that it's as of yet useless as a measure of biological age, for which it's not yet validated.


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#20 VP.

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 11:34 PM

"I'm actually not saying that aging.AI is useless — just that it's as of yet useless as a measure of biological age, for which it's not yet validated". 

 

And never will be validated in our lifetimes. It's a rough tool but used along with a Methylation test will at least give some data points to speculate with. I can't wait for the perfect test. I'm dying and so are you. 

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#21 Nate-2004

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 11:48 PM

 

 

You must surely have lactate dehydroginase. It might be there as LDH or LD.

Globulins should be on your CBC. Did you not get a CBC with your CMP ;) ?

 

Iron: OK, one thing not on lipids + CMP + CBC. But, again, the score is only rough for chronological risk and is not validated for biological age — so don't use it for that until it is.

 

 

Ah I didn't see the CBC, yes apparently I got one of those too, I didn't know about these things back then. The doctor just ordered all this when I was concerned about homocysteine which turned out fine.

 

I don't see LDH or LD anywhere either. 

 

I see hemoglobin but I do not see anything specifically called "Globulins" in the CBC. 

 

I'm still reading microbiology for dummies so maybe I'll get a better understanding of all this soon.


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#22 Nate-2004

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 11:57 PM

This may help, I'll just post it, there's no identifying information in it I don't think (let me know if there is). Maybe you guys can help me make sense of it all.

 

 

 

Screen%20Shot%202017-05-02%20at%207.51.5

 

Screen%20Shot%202017-05-02%20at%207.52.5

Screen%20Shot%202017-05-02%20at%207.53.2

 

Screen%20Shot%202017-05-02%20at%207.54.1


Edited by Nate-2004, 02 May 2017 - 11:58 PM.


#23 soulprogrammer

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 12:56 PM

Hi Nate, which parameters you don't have in your blood test?

 

Albumin**3.5 - 5.5 U/LGlucose**65 - 99 mg/dLUrea**(BUN)6 - 24 mg/dLALT**< 41 U/lCholesterol**100 - 199 mg/dLProtein total**6.0 - 8.5 g/dLGlobulins**14 - 49 g/lAlkaline phosphatase**39 - 117 IU/LSodium**134 - 144 mmol/LLactate dehydrogenase**119 - 226 IU/LCreatinine**0.57 - 1.00 mg/dLHemoglobin**11.1 - 15.9 g/dLBilirubin total0.0 - 1.2 mg/dLTriglycerides0 - 149 mg/dLHDL Cholesterol> 39 mg/dLLDL cholesterol (by Friedewald)0 - 99 mg/dLCalcium8.7 - 10.2 mg/dLChloride97 - 108 mmol/LPotassium3.5 - 5.2 mmol/LIron35 - 155 ug/dLHematocrit37 - 50 %MCH26.6 - 33.0 pgMCHC31.5 - 35.7 g/dLMCV79 - 97 fLPlatelets150-379 103 /uLErythrocytes (RBC)3.77 - 5.28 106 /uLLeukocytes (WBC)3.4-10.8 103 /uLAST< 40 U/lBasophils< 1.0 %Eosinophils< 5.0 %Lymphocytes20 - 40 %Monocytes3 - 9 %Neutrophils45 - 70 %

 


#24 Nate-2004

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 01:54 PM

Hi Nate, which parameters you don't have in your blood test?

 

Albumin**3.5 - 5.5 U/LGlucose**65 - 99 mg/dLUrea**(BUN)6 - 24 mg/dLALT**< 41 U/lCholesterol**100 - 199 mg/dLProtein total**6.0 - 8.5 g/dLGlobulins**14 - 49 g/lAlkaline phosphatase**39 - 117 IU/LSodium**134 - 144 mmol/LLactate dehydrogenase**119 - 226 IU/LCreatinine**0.57 - 1.00 mg/dLHemoglobin**11.1 - 15.9 g/dLBilirubin total0.0 - 1.2 mg/dLTriglycerides0 - 149 mg/dLHDL Cholesterol> 39 mg/dLLDL cholesterol (by Friedewald)0 - 99 mg/dLCalcium8.7 - 10.2 mg/dLChloride97 - 108 mmol/LPotassium3.5 - 5.2 mmol/LIron35 - 155 ug/dLHematocrit37 - 50 %MCH26.6 - 33.0 pgMCHC31.5 - 35.7 g/dLMCV79 - 97 fLPlatelets150-379 103 /uLErythrocytes (RBC)3.77 - 5.28 106 /uLLeukocytes (WBC)3.4-10.8 103 /uLAST< 40 U/lBasophils< 1.0 %Eosinophils< 5.0 %Lymphocytes20 - 40 %Monocytes3 - 9 %Neutrophils45 - 70 %

 

Globulins, Iron, Lactate dehydrogenase



#25 soulprogrammer

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 02:00 PM

 

Hi Nate, which parameters you don't have in your blood test?

 

Albumin**3.5 - 5.5 U/LGlucose**65 - 99 mg/dLUrea**(BUN)6 - 24 mg/dLALT**< 41 U/lCholesterol**100 - 199 mg/dLProtein total**6.0 - 8.5 g/dLGlobulins**14 - 49 g/lAlkaline phosphatase**39 - 117 IU/LSodium**134 - 144 mmol/LLactate dehydrogenase**119 - 226 IU/LCreatinine**0.57 - 1.00 mg/dLHemoglobin**11.1 - 15.9 g/dLBilirubin total0.0 - 1.2 mg/dLTriglycerides0 - 149 mg/dLHDL Cholesterol> 39 mg/dLLDL cholesterol (by Friedewald)0 - 99 mg/dLCalcium8.7 - 10.2 mg/dLChloride97 - 108 mmol/LPotassium3.5 - 5.2 mmol/LIron35 - 155 ug/dLHematocrit37 - 50 %MCH26.6 - 33.0 pgMCHC31.5 - 35.7 g/dLMCV79 - 97 fLPlatelets150-379 103 /uLErythrocytes (RBC)3.77 - 5.28 106 /uLLeukocytes (WBC)3.4-10.8 103 /uLAST< 40 U/lBasophils< 1.0 %Eosinophils< 5.0 %Lymphocytes20 - 40 %Monocytes3 - 9 %Neutrophils45 - 70 %

 

Globulins, Iron, Lactate dehydrogenase

 

 

if you leave these 3 markers blank, what do you get?



#26 Nate-2004

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 02:01 PM

if you leave these 3 markers blank, what do you get?

 

Nothing. It won't run till all are filled in. I had to fudge them.



#27 alc

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 06:53 PM

"Is there a way to test one's biological age using blood test or via other methods?"

 

 

Below are few serious groups - don't fall for the schemes that the fightaging guy/girl is trying to sell every day.

 

 

 

1. Cygenia

 

http://www.cygenia.c.../biological-age

 

 

Epigenetic-Aging-Signature for Blood

 

http://www.cygenia.c...signature-blood

 

Epigenetic-Aging-Signature for Buccal Swaps

 

http://www.cygenia.c...re-buccal-swaps

 

 

 

2. Zymo Research

 

http://www.zymoresea...tic-aging-clock

 

 

 

and of course:

 

3. DNA methylation age and the epigenetic clock (Steve Horvath)

 

https://labs.genetic...orvath/dnamage/

 

 


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#28 Nate-2004

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 09:23 PM

Can someone explain the methylation angle?



#29 Dorian Grey

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 03:43 AM

Nate: Yer Globulins should be Albumin (yours 4.4), subtracted from (total) Protein(s), (yours 6.6) equals globs of 2.2.  

 

Albumin & Globulins are both blood proteins.  Don't know why, but they always seem to list albumin and (total) proteins instead of albumin & globs.  


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#30 Nate-2004

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 06:48 PM

By the way, here's what a lipid panel, hemoglobin and STD test costs in the U.S.  I just got slammed with this deductible so now that my deductible is going to be paid off I'm going to make them pay for a ton of stuff.

 

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Edited by Nate-2004, 09 May 2017 - 06:48 PM.






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