11 replies to this topic

[Cal18]

So I've got debilitating tinnitus which is what lead me to this research. I also have a history or minor depression and OCD.

 

I believe the compound EGIS-12,233 may be of some help, however I would have no idea how to but it or take which is what I would need some help with. Can a base substance like this even be ingested? Below is my supporting theory. I can not take any medications which act on many different receptors since my tinnitus was caused by a very low dose Celexa (and I also got akathisia from it). Looking for something extremely targeted.

_______________________

 

OCD activity, in part, can be generated in the caudate nucleus. It has also been noted in treatments of Deep Brain Stimulation that stimulating the caudate nucleus has shown a reduction in tinnitus severity or complete suppression and has been hypothesized to reduce OCD as well. OCD and tinnitus are similar in that they can be "self perpetuating" so it makes sense that they share a common pathway. 5-HT₇ has been shown to be directly linked to OCD and also has abundant receptor sites in the caudate nucleus. 5-HT6 receptors have also been found. My theory is that targeting the receptors implicated in OCD, will reduce the severity or self-perpetuation of tinnitus. 

 

I then found several serotogenic medications which have shown in some instances to reduce the severity of tinnitus and many of them coincidentally shared the 5-HT₇ antagonist property. 

 

Then to my surprise, I later found this info on how these two (5-HT₇ and 5-HT6) receptors also increase dopamine release in the cochlear tissue which could enhance hearing. And also someone else who had a similar theory. 

 

So once again, looking for any holes in this theory and trying to find out if there is a way obtain the compound and any ideas on dosing.  

[DarkRiver]

Here's a guy who claims that Venlafaxine resolved his tinnitus. http://www.medicalda...-ringing-262690

 

It has also been noted in treatments of Deep Brain Stimulation that stimulating the caudate nucleus has shown a reduction in tinnitus severity or complete suppression and has been hypothesized to reduce OCD as well.

 

 

I'm currently researching Deep TMS and have undergone unsuccessful rTMS treatment. In both cases, the medical staff only want to stimulate the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (I believe the treatment only has FDA approval for that part of the brain). As for Deep Brain Stimulation...that sounds pretty scary.

 

As for my tinnitus, I have had it for most of my life but I think that bupropion made it worse.

[Cal18]

Here's a guy who claims that Venlafaxine resolved his tinnitus. http://www.medicalda...-ringing-262690

 

It has also been noted in treatments of Deep Brain Stimulation that stimulating the caudate nucleus has shown a reduction in tinnitus severity or complete suppression and has been hypothesized to reduce OCD as well.

 

 

I'm currently researching Deep TMS and have undergone unsuccessful rTMS treatment. In both cases, the medical staff only want to stimulate the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (I believe the treatment only has FDA approval for that part of the brain). As for Deep Brain Stimulation...that sounds pretty scary.

 

As for my tinnitus, I have had it for most of my life but I think that bupropion made it worse.

 

Sorry you're suffering with this as well. Venlafaxine to me sounds scary as it's too close to an SSRI which I cannot take. Thanks for the info about TMS. I'm worried about TMS because my T has a very electrical quality to it and that type of stimulation might make it worse. 

 

I still think my theory on the 5HT7 receptor might work. Please me know if you find out anything else in regards to your research on Deep TMS. 

[jack black]

Here's a guy who claims that Venlafaxine resolved his tinnitus. http://www.medicalda...-ringing-262690

Why would that work?

BTW, OP: thanks for opening this interesting discussion. Here is a thought. LSD or DMT are known to downregulate 5ht receptors for a day or 2. Would be interesting to see if any impact on tinnitus.

[DarkRiver]

 

Here's a guy who claims that Venlafaxine resolved his tinnitus. http://www.medicalda...-ringing-262690

 

It has also been noted in treatments of Deep Brain Stimulation that stimulating the caudate nucleus has shown a reduction in tinnitus severity or complete suppression and has been hypothesized to reduce OCD as well.

 

 

I'm currently researching Deep TMS and have undergone unsuccessful rTMS treatment. In both cases, the medical staff only want to stimulate the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (I believe the treatment only has FDA approval for that part of the brain). As for Deep Brain Stimulation...that sounds pretty scary.

 

As for my tinnitus, I have had it for most of my life but I think that bupropion made it worse.

 

I still think my theory on the 5HT7 receptor might work. Please me know if you find out anything else in regards to your research on Deep TMS. 

 

 

If you search in Pub Med, there are a number of studies showing that TMS can be a beneficial treatment for sufferers of tinnitus. If I recall correctly, these studies all involved stimulating the temporal lobes (?), and like I said in my earlier post the standard providers of TMS only want to stimulate the left dorsolateral prefrontal cortex.
 

Have you ever gone on the Tinnitus Talk forum? That seems to be the Web's main hub of activity regarding possible treatments for tinnitus.

 

My tinnitus sounds like a constant high-pitched ringing. It's a "beeeeeep..." that I hear bilaterally in quiet situations. Is that what yours is like?

[Cal18]

 

Here's a guy who claims that Venlafaxine resolved his tinnitus. http://www.medicalda...-ringing-262690

Why would that work?

BTW, OP: thanks for opening this interesting discussion. Here is a thought. LSD or DMT are known to downregulate 5ht receptors for a day or 2. Would be interesting to see if any impact on tinnitus.

 

 

I don't know if downregulating 5HT receptors would work - wouldn't that decrease serotonin? I feel that mine is possibly linked to a deficiency and maybe even downregulated receptors from antidepressant withdrawal/reactions. 

[Cal18]

 

 

Here's a guy who claims that Venlafaxine resolved his tinnitus. http://www.medicalda...-ringing-262690

 

It has also been noted in treatments of Deep Brain Stimulation that stimulating the caudate nucleus has shown a reduction in tinnitus severity or complete suppression and has been hypothesized to reduce OCD as well.

 

 

I'm currently researching Deep TMS and have undergone unsuccessful rTMS treatment. In both cases, the medical staff only want to stimulate the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (I believe the treatment only has FDA approval for that part of the brain). As for Deep Brain Stimulation...that sounds pretty scary.

 

As for my tinnitus, I have had it for most of my life but I think that bupropion made it worse.

 

I still think my theory on the 5HT7 receptor might work. Please me know if you find out anything else in regards to your research on Deep TMS. 

 

 

If you search in Pub Med, there are a number of studies showing that TMS can be a beneficial treatment for sufferers of tinnitus. If I recall correctly, these studies all involved stimulating the temporal lobes (?), and like I said in my earlier post the standard providers of TMS only want to stimulate the left dorsolateral prefrontal cortex.
 

Have you ever gone on the Tinnitus Talk forum? That seems to be the Web's main hub of activity regarding possible treatments for tinnitus.

 

My tinnitus sounds like a constant high-pitched ringing. It's a "beeeeeep..." that I hear bilaterally in quiet situations. Is that what yours is like?

 

Yes, I'm all over the TT forum  . I'm posting here because I know people on this forum can be a bit more "adventurous" with trying different things or theories. 

I've also read people have had a worsening of T with TMS so I'm a bit scared of it. Yours sounds like it could be hearing loss related (due to the pure tone aspect of it) but the fact that it's bilateral makes that theory questionable. I have a few different tones. 

 

- A static kind of seashell sound (bilateral) very similar to the day after a loud concert, this is constant but fluctuates in volume  EARS 

- A VERY loud electrical hiss in the middle of my head that is heard over everything including the shower (this shows up every other day or every two days)  BRAIN

- Pure tones in both ears that go up and down in volume or disappear completely throughout the day  EARS

 

I'm trying to fix the "brain" tinnitus which I feel is neurotransmitter related. The fact that the pattern is extremely predictable leads me to because it's some kind of chemical turnover or hormone. If I'm set for a "loud" day, there's nothing I can do to stop it. For some reason my brain knows to stick with this pattern. 

[jack black]

I don't know if downregulating 5HT receptors would work - wouldn't that decrease serotonin? I feel that mine is possibly linked to a deficiency and maybe even downregulated receptors from antidepressant withdrawal/reactions.

Having some psychodelic reagents and a reaserch animal on hand I did a quick and dirty experiment. I gave a microdose and the animal reported increase in tinnitus immediately after, but slightly decreased throughout the day. Next day it came back to normal (mild hissing). There might be some influence of 5HT, but one needs more selective reagents.

BTW, is there a history of load noise exposure?
Have you tried NAC? Military uses that for hearing loss prevention.

Edited by jack black, 30 May 2017 - 12:59 PM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

I don't know if downregulating 5HT receptors would work - wouldn't that decrease serotonin? I feel that mine is possibly linked to a deficiency and maybe even downregulated receptors from antidepressant withdrawal/reactions.

Having some psychodelic reagents and a reaserch animal on hand I did a quick and dirty experiment. I gave a microdose and the animal reported increase in tinnitus immediately after, but slightly decreased throughout the day. Next day it came back to normal (mild hissing). There might be some influence of 5HT, but one needs more selective reagents.

BTW, is there a history of load noise exposure?
Have you tried NAC? Military uses that for hearing loss prevention.

 

 

Hmm... interesting, NAC modulates glutamate activity... a bit like Lamotrigine Lite if you like, it would appear.

 

I posted a few months back that there was evidence of the NMDA-receptors being involved in some forms of Tinnitus - and apparently NMDA-antagonists show some promise for treatment.

 

Since the OP also has OCD, then perhaps a trial of Memantine might be in its order?

 

Kind of CRAZY how many things Memantine seems to have at least SOME effect on btw! : O The NMDA-receptor-networks seem to reach out and touch damn near every part of the brain!

 

 

References:

---------------------

A selective review of glutamate pharmacological therapy in obsessive–compulsive and related disorders

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4425334/
 

Local NMDA Receptor Blockade Attenuates Chronic Tinnitus and Associated Brain Activity in an Animal Model

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0077674

 

 

Blockade of cochlear NMDA receptors prevents long-term tinnitus during a brief consolidation window after acoustic trauma.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/18301716

 

Cochlear NMDA receptors as a therapeutic target of noise-induced tinnitus.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25871611

 

Another NMDA receptor antagonist for tinnitus is in clinical trials

http://www.audionotc...linical-trials/

 

(AM-101? That's our good ol' friend Kynurenic Acid, right? The brain's own endogenous NMDA-antagonist - or it's pro-drug, at least. Apparently there's another NMDA-antagonist getting a pro-drug as well, OTO-311 ak a Gacyclidine pro-drug.)

[Cal18]

 

 

I don't know if downregulating 5HT receptors would work - wouldn't that decrease serotonin? I feel that mine is possibly linked to a deficiency and maybe even downregulated receptors from antidepressant withdrawal/reactions.

Having some psychodelic reagents and a reaserch animal on hand I did a quick and dirty experiment. I gave a microdose and the animal reported increase in tinnitus immediately after, but slightly decreased throughout the day. Next day it came back to normal (mild hissing). There might be some influence of 5HT, but one needs more selective reagents.

BTW, is there a history of load noise exposure?
Have you tried NAC? Military uses that for hearing loss prevention.

 

 

Hmm... interesting, NAC modulates glutamate activity... a bit like Lamotrigine Lite if you like, it would appear.

 

I posted a few months back that there was evidence of the NMDA-receptors being involved in some forms of Tinnitus - and apparently NMDA-antagonists show some promise for treatment.

 

Since the OP also has OCD, then perhaps a trial of Memantine might be in its order?

 

Kind of CRAZY how many things Memantine seems to have at least SOME effect on btw! : O The NMDA-receptor-networks seem to reach out and touch damn near every part of the brain!

 

 

References:

---------------------

A selective review of glutamate pharmacological therapy in obsessive–compulsive and related disorders

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4425334/
 

Local NMDA Receptor Blockade Attenuates Chronic Tinnitus and Associated Brain Activity in an Animal Model

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0077674

 

 

Blockade of cochlear NMDA receptors prevents long-term tinnitus during a brief consolidation window after acoustic trauma.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/18301716

 

Cochlear NMDA receptors as a therapeutic target of noise-induced tinnitus.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25871611

 

Another NMDA receptor antagonist for tinnitus is in clinical trials

http://www.audionotc...linical-trials/

 

(AM-101? That's our good ol' friend Kynurenic Acid, right? The brain's own endogenous NMDA-antagonist - or it's pro-drug, at least. Apparently there's another NMDA-antagonist getting a pro-drug as well, OTO-311 ak a Gacyclidine pro-drug.)

 

 

Thanks for all the links. I actually have memantine which I purchased for this very reason but I'm worried about trying it. I saw there was a guy on reddit that got akathisia from it. My T was caused by akathisia from a low dose of Celexa (I took it for 3 years, no problem, tapered off with little to no withdrawal, tried to go back on a tiny dose after 9 months of being off and WHAM! Akathisia after the 3rd dose). So I'm kind of akathisia prone, I guess, and I do see that listed as a side effect - the guy was also dosing tianeptine at the time so I'm wondering if that might have played a part. 

 

I also worry about that extra acetylcholine (I think I have an excess of it which can further mediate akathisia). I'm thinking I can maybe try a really small dose and see what happens?  

 

 

[jack black]

I have memantine and took a few doses this week and no impact on tinnitus, actually a bit worse (this is all subjective of course).

[adamh]

I did a little searching in venlaflaxine and read reports that it causes tinnitus rather than cures it though it may work that way for a few people. I would be very cautious about using it for that purpose because it may make it worse.

 

However, I did find this study which while its not definitive seems to indicate it worked for many of the patients after 4 months.

 

http://www.sciencedi...194599804001238

 

Misoprostol provided therapeutic relief for some patients with tinnitus we studied, but further investigation of larger groups is needed.