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Sulforaphane?

sulforaphane

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#31 ChristineH

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:42 AM

Would radish seeds/sprouts be better? Radish yields sulforaphene rather than sulforaphane but you get more of it because it lacks ESP.

 

 

https://www.research...akdown_products

 

You could use radish sprouts if you prefer.  However, the deterrents are these:

  • The fresh sprouts are very 'peppery' in flavour and some people cant tolerate this - if you can, there is no reason not to grow and eat them.
  • The major reason in my mind is the fact that there is comparatively little available data on sulforaphene from radish.
  • Historically, the research started with broccoli and sulforaphane and it has continued since
  • That means we have a number of clinical trials we can use to estimate appropriate dosage.  That data doesnt exist for radish sprouts.

So, in summary, radish sprouts have merit - we just don't know how much!  If you are using them for prevention, there is no issue.  However, if you are using them for therapy wherein a particular sulforaphane dose has been found to be of benefit for a named condition, I'd stay with sulforaphane.


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#32 Heisok

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 10:41 PM

Currently Swansons has the BroccoMax 120 count for $22.73. That is by far the cheapest I have ever found.

 

Not sure if you need a link: http://click.e-mail....99668c324326145


Edited by Heisok, 25 May 2018 - 11:38 PM.

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#33 Biologist

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 09:29 PM

Important to remember here, the broccoli seeds you buy on Amazon are typically NOT the kind referenced in the 2004 West paper, but open-pollinated OP mix breeds where 2 out of 8 had less than 10umol/g glucoraphanin and the average was 33 umol/g (2005 Farnham, Stephenson, Fahey 'Glucoraphanin level in broccoli seed is largely determined by genotype'). 

WHAT SEEDS TO GET?
 

Waltham 29 OP $23/lb 32 umol/g GR in the 2004 paper https://www.neseed.c...oli/waltham-29/

Decicco OP $15/lb  35 umol/g in the 2004 paper, in the 2005 paper 50 umol/g https://www.everwild...coli-Seeds.html

All the F-hybrids in the 2004 paper with >30 umol/g GR content cost 10-20x more.

 

I'm interested in the merit of consuming seeds as sprouting is too laborious and prone to mold growth. My current method of consumption is simply chewing a tsp or 5 grams of seeds with some radish root. Might get a grinder and make tea out of it! 

 


Edited by Technoviking, 06 January 2019 - 09:48 PM.

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#34 ChristineH

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 10:41 PM

Important to remember here, the broccoli seeds you buy on Amazon are typically NOT the kind referenced in the 2004 West paper, but open-pollinated OP mix breeds where 2 out of 8 had less than 10umol/g glucoraphanin and the average was 33 umol/g (2005 Farnham, Stephenson, Fahey 'Glucoraphanin level in broccoli seed is largely determined by genotype'). 

WHAT SEEDS TO GET?
 

Waltham 29 OP $23/lb 32 umol/g GR in the 2004 paper https://www.neseed.c...oli/waltham-29/

Decicco OP $15/lb  35 umol/g in the 2004 paper, in the 2005 paper 50 umol/g https://www.everwild...coli-Seeds.html

All the F-hybrids in the 2004 paper with >30 umol/g GR content cost 10-20x more.

 

I'm interested in the merit of consuming seeds as sprouting is too laborious and prone to mold growth. My current method of consumption is simply chewing a tsp or 5 grams of seeds with some radish root. Might get a grinder and make tea out of it! 

 

The seeds contain a toxin, erucic acid - so not advisable to consume unsprouted seeds.  I doubt that you will buy in the retail market the grade of seeds we use for commercial sprouting and production of sulforaphane-yielding supplements. In declaring a potential conflict of interest, my company, Cell-Logic produces the highest sulforaphane-yielding broccoli sprout supplement anywhere in the world.  EnduraCell yields  at least 20 mg sulforaphane per gram of powder and at least 14 mg per 700 mg capsule of Enduracell BioActive.  By all means, grow the sprouts for their nutritional value as a fresh green vegetable but if you need a therapeutic dose of sulforaphane, it may be best to use a supplement with disclosed doses.


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#35 ChristineH

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 10:44 PM

I'm personally supplementing BroccoMax, the 120 capsule version doesn't seem so expensive and I think that its composition is the optimal for supplementing Sulforaphane:

 

 

I'm not affiliated with this brand in any way. If I'm wrong, please, correct me. I'm the first one interested in not throwing away my money. 

Declaring potential conflict of interest:  Cell-Logic's EnduraCell powder yields 20 mg sullforaphane per gram and EnduraCell BioActive 700 mg capsules yield at least 14 mg per capsule.


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#36 Keizo

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 10:51 PM

The problem with not sprouting the seeds is you probably get a decent amount of erucic acid, which probably isn't a great idea. The sprouting process removes most of it. It was discussed in some other thread, and I remember doing some very basic calculations on it. Although how big of an issue erucic acid really is I'm not sure.

I don't mind putting a small spoon of the raw seeds down into a blender now and then (a couple of times a month), but I try to sprout them or just go for kale. Just to be safe.


Edited by Keizo, 06 January 2019 - 10:54 PM.


#37 ChristineH

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 11:01 PM

I'm personally supplementing BroccoMax, the 120 capsule version doesn't seem so expensive and I think that its composition is the optimal for supplementing Sulforaphane:

 

 

I'm not affiliated with this brand in any way. If I'm wrong, please, correct me. I'm the first one interested in not throwing away my money. 

QUOTE for your message:  BroccoMax®  broccoli seed extract is manufactured using a patented process that preserves  myrosinase, the enzyme in broccoli that metabolizes SGS (Sulforaphane Glucosinolate, a.k.a. glucoraphanin) in the small intestine into sulforaphane.

 

Declaring a potential conflict of interest.  My company Cell-Logic manufactures a 100% whole broccoli sprout supplement EnduraCell (powder and capsule) yielding 20 mg sulforaphane per gram.  Now to respond to your comments.  You refer to broccoli seed 'extract'.  By the very nature of its patented process, the seed extracts remove the myrosinase enzyme as a first step.  This stope the glucoraphanin from rapidly degrading to sulforaphane during extraction.    The extract is named SGS which misleads a reader into thinking this is a sulforaphane-yielding supplement; it is NOT!  If you ask the manufacturer, he will tell you the gut microflora convert the glucoraphanin to myrosinase in the gut.  Whilst this can be true, it is no more than 10% of the conversion which comes from the naturally present myrosinase.  If an individual has recently had antibiotics or otherwise has a compromised microbiome, the conversion may not occur at all.

 

A 100% whole broccoli sprout supplement such as our EnduraCell retains almost all of the myrosinase and therefore converts to sulforaphane regardless of the status of the gut microbiota.


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#38 Biologist

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 11:19 AM

I'm aware of the erucic acid content, but there are a few reasons why I'm not concerned. From "ERUCIC ACID IN FOOD: A Toxicological Review and Risk Assessment TECHNICAL REPORT SERIES NO. 21 FOOD STANDARDS AUSTRALIA NEW ZEALAND June 2003".
 

Increased myocardial lipidosis is associated with doses of erucic acid at 1500 mg/kg bw/day in rats, although in nursling pigs this occurs at 900 mg/kg bw/day.  Nursling pigs appear to tolerate less erucic acid than adult pigs before myocardial lipidosis is evident, suggesting that the immature myocardium and/or liver may be less able to oxidise long–chain fatty acids.  In pigs and monkeys, there appears to be no other adverse findings that can be associated with erucic acid consumption, other than myocardial lipidosis.  In rats, however, the animals typically also develop myocardial necrosis followed by fibrosis, at erucic acid doses of 6600 mg/kg bw/day.
 

Even with slight myocardial lipidosis, there is no evidence of pathology or cell necrosis in pigs or monkeys.
 

After long–term feeding of HEAR oil to rats, the amount of erucic acid in the myocardial lipids decreased gradually and at 12 months was reduced to 4.2%.  Much less erucic acid (about 2%) was found in the hepatic lipids, suggesting that erucic acid may be more readily metabolised in liver cells...Eventually, the lipidosis disappears even with continued exposure to erucic acid.

Lipisodis decreases over time in rats as they adapt to metabolizing erucic acid, reducing concern of long-term toxicity.
 

Kramer et al. (1988) have shown that...Myocardial lesions have been observed in the hearts of rats fed rat chow, control oils such as corn, peanut, olive, soybean or various marine oils. Therefore, myocardial necrosis is considered to be a spontaneous idiopathic lesion in the male rat. 
 

Rats fed other oils without erucic acid also develop myocardial lipidosis, so it might primarily be a factor of the extreme amount of lipids in test diets (20-30% of calories).

 

Udipiet al. (2006) estimated the fatty acid intakes of healthy adult males (n = 25/region) from three regions in India using dietary records, food frequency questionnaires and chemical analysis of the diet. The mean erucic acid intake was reported only for the region West Bengal and was 17.3 8.3% of the total fat intake. The authors reported that this high erucic acid intake was due to the high mustard oil consumption. By using the total fat intake of 70.9 21.3 g/day reported for this region, the CONTAM Panel calculated an erucic acid exposure of 12.3 g/day or 180 mg/kg bw per day for a 70 kg adult.

 

Indians eat a ton of erucic acid and I haven't seen any reports of problems with myocardial lipidosis. 180 mg/kg per day is still under the minimum level required to see in it nursing piglets.

 

If you consume 5 grams broccoli seed pr day, that's around 500 mg extra erucic acid (the average person eats 124 mg,so on the same order of magnitude), you would have to eat 500 grams of seeds daily to reach the minimum levels where myocardial lipisodis were found in nursing piglets. Taking a standardized supplement would be nicer, but is expensive! Easily an extra $30/month.

 

 


Edited by Technoviking, 07 January 2019 - 11:25 AM.

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#39 ChristineH

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 12:23 AM

I'm aware of the erucic acid content, but there are a few reasons why I'm not concerned. From "ERUCIC ACID IN FOOD: A Toxicological Review and Risk Assessment TECHNICAL REPORT SERIES NO. 21 FOOD STANDARDS AUSTRALIA NEW ZEALAND June 2003".
 

Increased myocardial lipidosis is associated with doses of erucic acid at 1500 mg/kg bw/day in rats, although in nursling pigs this occurs at 900 mg/kg bw/day.  Nursling pigs appear to tolerate less erucic acid than adult pigs before myocardial lipidosis is evident, suggesting that the immature myocardium and/or liver may be less able to oxidise long–chain fatty acids.  In pigs and monkeys, there appears to be no other adverse findings that can be associated with erucic acid consumption, other than myocardial lipidosis.  In rats, however, the animals typically also develop myocardial necrosis followed by fibrosis, at erucic acid doses of 6600 mg/kg bw/day.
 

Even with slight myocardial lipidosis, there is no evidence of pathology or cell necrosis in pigs or monkeys.
 

After long–term feeding of HEAR oil to rats, the amount of erucic acid in the myocardial lipids decreased gradually and at 12 months was reduced to 4.2%.  Much less erucic acid (about 2%) was found in the hepatic lipids, suggesting that erucic acid may be more readily metabolised in liver cells...Eventually, the lipidosis disappears even with continued exposure to erucic acid.

Lipisodis decreases over time in rats as they adapt to metabolizing erucic acid, reducing concern of long-term toxicity.
 

Kramer et al. (1988) have shown that...Myocardial lesions have been observed in the hearts of rats fed rat chow, control oils such as corn, peanut, olive, soybean or various marine oils. Therefore, myocardial necrosis is considered to be a spontaneous idiopathic lesion in the male rat. 
 

Rats fed other oils without erucic acid also develop myocardial lipidosis, so it might primarily be a factor of the extreme amount of lipids in test diets (20-30% of calories).

 

Udipiet al. (2006) estimated the fatty acid intakes of healthy adult males (n = 25/region) from three regions in India using dietary records, food frequency questionnaires and chemical analysis of the diet. The mean erucic acid intake was reported only for the region West Bengal and was 17.3 8.3% of the total fat intake. The authors reported that this high erucic acid intake was due to the high mustard oil consumption. By using the total fat intake of 70.9 21.3 g/day reported for this region, the CONTAM Panel calculated an erucic acid exposure of 12.3 g/day or 180 mg/kg bw per day for a 70 kg adult.

 

Indians eat a ton of erucic acid and I haven't seen any reports of problems with myocardial lipidosis. 180 mg/kg per day is still under the minimum level required to see in it nursing piglets.

 

If you consume 5 grams broccoli seed pr day, that's around 500 mg extra erucic acid (the average person eats 124 mg,so on the same order of magnitude), you would have to eat 500 grams of seeds daily to reach the minimum levels where myocardial lipisodis were found in nursing piglets. Taking a standardized supplement would be nicer, but is expensive! Easily an extra $30/month.

 

Your choice!  I wouldn't....


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#40 Mr. Olive Oil

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 05:34 AM

Your choice!  I wouldn't....

 

Hi Christine,

I have empty enteric coated capsules that I use for various supplements that would otherwise cause me gastric distress (bacopa for example).

I have tested the integrity of these capsules at various pH in the lab I work at so I know they are effective.

My question to you is if you see any benefits in putting EnduraCell into these enteric capsules for delivery to the small intestine.

I know Jarrows uses enteric coating on their broccoli sprout capsules, and I'm curious if there is any degradation of the sulforaphane in low pH environments?

Since I already have these enteric capsules, I wonder if using them will increase absorption or systemic concentration of sulforaphane?

Thanks in advance


Edited by Mr. Olive Oil, 22 January 2019 - 05:37 AM.


#41 ChristineH

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 05:25 AM

Hi Christine,

I have empty enteric coated capsules that I use for various supplements that would otherwise cause me gastric distress (bacopa for example).

I have tested the integrity of these capsules at various pH in the lab I work at so I know they are effective.

My question to you is if you see any benefits in putting EnduraCell into these enteric capsules for delivery to the small intestine.

I know Jarrows uses enteric coating on their broccoli sprout capsules, and I'm curious if there is any degradation of the sulforaphane in low pH environments?

Since I already have these enteric capsules, I wonder if using them will increase absorption or systemic concentration of sulforaphane?

Thanks in advance

 


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#42 ChristineH

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 05:30 AM

There is no known advantage in enterically encapsulating EnduraCell. Sulforaphane is active and absorbable along the gut lining.  Its effects in the stomach explain its clinical benefit in eradicating Helicobacter pylori.  If you enterically encapsulate, you will miss potential benefits in the upper gut from mouth onwards.

 

You would have to ask Jarrow why they do this - is their a scientifically-valid mechanism - or is it for marketing purposes?  They have a combination of ingredients in their product - maybe this is the reason.  Enduracell is a 100% whole broccoli sprout supplement with nothing added - and nothing ut water removed.

 

 



#43 KBAnthis

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Posted 27 January 2019 - 12:11 PM

I tried sprouts and they were ok. I just use moringa leaf  powder myself. Sprouting is too much extra work for me when I have been taking moringa ready for years with great success. I will consider if groundbreaking information comes out thought of course, but as of now it is to much work with the RO water that I have to remineralize with mineral salts. . The moringa seems to increase my intercellular glutathione greatly already. I really never get sick unless it is vaccines or something. I read in Billy Meier contact reports it can even prevent people from contracting HIV, I am not willing to volunteer but they do call it the miracle tree.


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#44 granmasutensil

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 01:40 PM

Is anyone concerned about the DIM content in consuming broccoli sprouts? I was under the impression DIM is to be avoided like the plague since it's an androgen receptor blocker and really messes with estrogen on top of that.



#45 ChristineH

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 12:30 AM

Is anyone concerned about the DIM content in consuming broccoli sprouts? I was under the impression DIM is to be avoided like the plague since it's an androgen receptor blocker and really messes with estrogen on top of that.

There is no DIM derived from broccoli sprouts.  The sprouts yield sulforaphane on activation of the precursor by myrosinase enzyme.  The mature broccoli vegetable yields very little sulforaphane but does yield indole-3-carbinol (I3C).  When ingested, 2 molecules of I3C dimerize to form DIM under the acid conditions of the stomach.

 

So, if you are consuming fresh broccoli sprouts, you will not be ingesting I3C/ DIM.  It's also worth noting that the quantity of I3C in broccoli vegetable is so small that it is unlikely to exhibit the effects you so graphically describe.  We are talking about  < 1.5 mg I3C per standard serve of broccoli vegetable.  I3C and DIM supplements, on the other hand are typically 100-200 mg per capsule.  So, although it's possible to obtain an adverse reaction to the supplement, it's practically impossible for that to happen after eating the vegetable.


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#46 granmasutensil

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 02:38 PM

There is no DIM derived from broccoli sprouts.  The sprouts yield sulforaphane on activation of the precursor by myrosinase enzyme.  The mature broccoli vegetable yields very little sulforaphane but does yield indole-3-carbinol (I3C).  When ingested, 2 molecules of I3C dimerize to form DIM under the acid conditions of the stomach.

 

So, if you are consuming fresh broccoli sprouts, you will not be ingesting I3C/ DIM.  It's also worth noting that the quantity of I3C in broccoli vegetable is so small that it is unlikely to exhibit the effects you so graphically describe.  We are talking about  < 1.5 mg I3C per standard serve of broccoli vegetable.  I3C and DIM supplements, on the other hand are typically 100-200 mg per capsule.  So, although it's possible to obtain an adverse reaction to the supplement, it's practically impossible for that to happen after eating the vegetable.

 

I was just a little worried because this paper says there is 27mg per 44g chopped broccoli(half a cup) which is way more than 1.5mg. If it's anything like the exponential increase in sulforaphane we get from sprouts vs mature broccoli there is major reason for concern. But you are saying it's the reverse and there is almost none in the sprouts but there is in the mature broccoli? Because even if it's the same as mature broccoli 27mg is quite a bit since around half a cup or more is a common amount of sprouts taken.

 

Then there is the fact of the external processes used to massively increase the yield of sulforaphane in the sprouts a person would eat with calcium chloride rinse water, freezing the sprouts after harvesting, and blending them with mustard seed powder and allowing them to rest before consuming. I'm a layman on broccoli for all I know those processes also may increase the DIM content in the sprouts a lot which is why I'm worried. On hairlosstalk there are multiple reports of people testing DIM for hairloss given it is a androgen receptor blocker but get noticeable  hairloss/shedding instead, likely due to it's additional effects on estrogen is the common thought. So consuming unwanted decent sized amounts of DIM with my broccoli sprouts has me worried.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/13129476


Edited by granmasutensil, 09 February 2019 - 02:40 PM.

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#47 ChristineH

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:09 AM

I was just a little worried because this paper says there is 27mg per 44g chopped broccoli(half a cup) which is way more than 1.5mg. If it's anything like the exponential increase in sulforaphane we get from sprouts vs mature broccoli there is major reason for concern. But you are saying it's the reverse and there is almost none in the sprouts but there is in the mature broccoli? Because even if it's the same as mature broccoli 27mg is quite a bit since around half a cup or more is a common amount of sprouts taken.

 

Then there is the fact of the external processes used to massively increase the yield of sulforaphane in the sprouts a person would eat with calcium chloride rinse water, freezing the sprouts after harvesting, and blending them with mustard seed powder and allowing them to rest before consuming. I'm a layman on broccoli for all I know those processes also may increase the DIM content in the sprouts a lot which is why I'm worried. On hairlosstalk there are multiple reports of people testing DIM for hairloss given it is a androgen receptor blocker but get noticeable  hairloss/shedding instead, likely due to it's additional effects on estrogen is the common thought. So consuming unwanted decent sized amounts of DIM with my broccoli sprouts has me worried.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/13129476

 



#48 ChristineH

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:33 AM

I dont know how you arrived at 27 mg per 44 grams.  I think you are looking at glucosinolates - which the family of chemicals to which glucoraphanin belongs.  Your comment "Then there is the fact of the external processes used to massively increase the yield of sulforaphane in the sprouts a person would eat with calcium chloride rinse water, freezing the sprouts after harvesting, and blending them with mustard seed powder and allowing them to rest before consuming".   

 

None of these steps 'massively' increase sulforaphane.  The sulforaphane yield from the sprouts is naturally higher than it is from the vegetable.  There is NO way that any of these steps will result in production of I-3-C or DIM.  It just doesnt work like this.  You will get NO DIM with your home-grown sprouts.

 

DIM supplements are synthetic and no broccoli vegetable contains anything like the content found in supplements.  You have no need to worry.  Alternatively buy a quality broccoli sprout supplement that is standardised for the sulforaphane yield you need - and guranteed no DIM.


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#49 WillNitschke

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 02:28 AM

Going back to the original question, I really don't want to mess about with sprouting broccoli seeds, plus I am concerned about the bio-availability when taking a supplement by itself.

Since it appears that 44g of brussel sprouts yield 104mg of glucosiolate and using a conservative .2 for conversion into sulforaphane, this works out as approx. 12 brussel sprouts daily. Which doesn't seem to me to be a big deal.

So to increase bio-availability I will stream these for 3 minutes. And then to cover my arse, I take a 1000mg tablet of broccoli sprout extract, which by itself should yield around 10mg of sulforaphane. I've seen a study that suggests vastly increased bio-availability if you take a supplement with a food source rich in sulforaphane as there are associated nutrients that help with absorption, apparently.

In total I should be in the 50-80mg range of sulforaphane. I'm aiming for 60mg as the clinical trials I've seen seem to be testing in the 40-60 range.

Obviously, it's more problematical for me to consume this food on weekends if I eat out, or when I'm doing intermittent fasting for various reasons. But this still beats what I'm doing now, which is consuming minuscule amounts.

I'm also going to create a chimichurri sauce made up of kale and watercress (both high in sulforaphane) and I'll add some mustard seed to that and black pepper for taste. And that will be my  back-up when I can't bear to look at any more brussel sprouts.

Thoughts welcome.


Edited by WillNitschke, 16 May 2019 - 02:34 AM.


#50 GABAergic

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 03:32 AM

perhaps maybe people should hold on with this for a while. this article might seem very against sulforaphane, but if you pay close attention and even read the comments, a lot of things would make sense https://www.kevinsto...ous-vegetables/


Edited by GABAergic, 16 May 2019 - 03:33 AM.

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#51 Chupo

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 05:35 AM

perhaps maybe people should hold on with this for a while. this article might seem very against sulforaphane, but if you pay close attention and even read the comments, a lot of things would make sense https://www.kevinsto...ous-vegetables/

 

This blog post is ridiculous. Anecdotes and speculation take a back seat to science. Any substance can be bad for you if you take too much of it. It's hormesis you're after, not a poisonous dose.  Kevin Stock is a carnivore and is very biased against anything in the plant kingdom. Listen to the real scientists like Rhonda Patcrick or Jed Fahey, not this clown. 


Edited by Chupo, 16 May 2019 - 05:48 AM.

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#52 Harkijn

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 05:41 AM

An interesting test is mentioned here:

https://www.scienced...90508093733.htm

 

Though the main object of research was countering schizophrenia, the researchers also tested nine healthy humans by giving them 100micromoles of SFN per day. After only seven days the average amount of ergothionine in their brains was considerably higher. Very encouraging!


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#53 GABAergic

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 07:16 PM

This blog post is ridiculous. Anecdotes and speculation take a back seat to science. Any substance can be bad for you if you take too much of it. It's hormesis you're after, not a poisonous dose.  Kevin Stock is a carnivore and is very biased against anything in the plant kingdom. Listen to the real scientists like Rhonda Patcrick or Jed Fahey, not this clown. 

 

he mentiones hormesis. did you even read the whole article or you stopped halfway because it didnt support what you believe in already? he is talking about all the positive things, and the way hormesis work and how consuming broccoli even in normal amounts might not be good. you are also quick to judge because he is carnivore that he is right away on picking on vegetables without concrete science or logic. i think you should re-read it and see, maybe try to be neutral on this issue. you might be the opposite extreme in the case, against meat.


Edited by GABAergic, 16 May 2019 - 07:17 PM.

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#54 WillNitschke

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:44 AM

Well I read the whole article and comes across as useless and stupid, sorry. The guy provides nothing more than his opinions. Not interested in opinions, sorry.

My understanding of a reading of the science so far, is that many of these types of molecules are useful because they stress your body and this activates repair mechanisms such as the sirtuins pathway(s) for example. If stress was purely bad for your body then exercise, sauna, etc. would be bad for you also. Which they are generally not. So the claims made in this blog strike me as childishly simplistic. The other major problem with the blog is that it make a whole series of claims without bothering to try to justify them scientifically. This strikes me as a perfect example of where a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.


Edited by WillNitschke, 17 May 2019 - 01:51 AM.

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#55 GABAergic

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:09 PM

what do you mean his opinions? he puts sources to all he says you know. maybe try again reading it carefully. he also mentions hormesis as i said to the other guy who cant read. im surprised none of you people can read the article properly. no wonder you fall for so many supplements when you read studies on cells or rats.


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#56 WillNitschke

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 12:18 AM

What I suspect is going on here is you don't like vegetables, so you've scoured the internet and found a wingnut who doesn't like vegetables either, and now you're upset that the belief is being dismissed as silly... The citations and sources he uses don't support his claims. I can make the claim that nobody should ever eat peanuts under any circumstances, and then I can link to an article that points out that peanuts contain toxins, so what? Protein can be toxic, fats can be bad for you. Carbs can be bad for you to varying degrees... i.e., high glycemic food if you're diabetic. Everything you eat has downsides. That doesn't mean not eating food is the way to address toxicity. Nor does it mean you get to focus on the foods you don't like and talk up the downsides of those, and ignore the downsides of the stuff you like to eat. ;)

Anyway, that's my last word on this. I'm sure more butt hurt will follow, regardless.


Edited by WillNitschke, 18 May 2019 - 12:20 AM.

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#57 GABAergic

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 03:56 AM

nah actually i take broccomax supplement and thats why this article affected me and im being a nice guy by SHARING THIS with you. anyway, why bother in the future. i dont hate anything specifically. its more like you feel offended and not me. but as i said im not going to post anything like this in the future. my curcumin causing liver disease thread is also not popular. but 10 years ago when i mentioned its actually good for you, people were interested. the moment i post something negative, people are like NAH YOU ARE A DOWNER AND A HATER. ok fine, ill only concentrate on positive things from now on. like, mods, can i retract my thread about curcumin being bad for the liver please? i wish i have the option to delete my threads


Edited by GABAergic, 18 May 2019 - 03:59 AM.

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#58 ironfistx

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 04:26 AM

REPLY TO MIND: The way the board is organized the vendor vetting area is where IMHO no one will ever notice or likely read those threads (I'm sure placement of that forum was not an accident). You could have placed it under the supplement area for example.

In fact (for what my opinion is worth) the organization of this whole area of the forum is not optimal. I realize that figuring out how to organize the section can't be easy, but as it is where to look for things is not obvious or consistent. I can't help thinking there must be a better way.


Totally. Possibly a header previous to each thread that deals with products? Normally I never see threads in there.

#59 ironfistx

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 04:29 AM

Why not just add broccoli seeds to a smoothie? I do. Far cheaper than a supplement. None of the trouble of sprouting or vetting sources (well, a little vetting for the seeds). They're bitter but palatable in a shake.

I found they added a nice crunch and the bitterness was pleasant in certain types of salads, in the same way the bitterness of chicory can be pleasant with sweet tomatoes and oil and vinegar.

Just wanted to add that the seeds have a higher sulforaphane content than sprouts.


Will you tell us where is best to get seeds?

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#60 ironfistx

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 09:21 PM

Re erucic acid, millions of Indians cook with mustard oil, with a 42% erucic acid content. Not only has this not lead to an epidemic of myocardial lipidosis, but cooking with mustard oil is associated with a halving of heart disease risk.

 

Rastogi et al, 2004. Diet and risk of ischemic heart disease in IndiaThe American journal of clinical nutrition79(4), pp.582-592.

 

I find that most discussion on the internet about perils of erucic acid are by non-experts looking for a rationale to avoid canola oil (low-erucic rapeseed oil), despite that oil's demonstrated health benefits.

 

Then if these can reduce the risk of heart disease by half why aren't we taking it?


But I take from all these things Brocomax.  Sporadically I'll open a capsule and get it in water and drink it that way.  The flavor is pretty good.







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