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NR is trash

nr snake oil garbage

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#91 mikeinnaples

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 04:42 PM

This topic is a perfect example of why myself and others have stopped frequenting these boards as much. Blatant misinformation / ignorance being allowed to persist and the poster(s) constantly involved with propagating it are allowed to continue posting here and doing damage to the credibility of the community. Add in the general lack of moderation in regards to blatant trolling and/or attention whoring, the vehemence being allowed to spew back and forth between people, and the infiltration of commercial interests and we have turned into a pool of excrement more fitting for reddit than longecity.

 

It honestly is sad.


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#92 MikeDC

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:48 PM

ChromaDex cleared HPN Niagen.

Attached Files


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#93 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 09:14 PM

Good to know about HPN being given the thumbs up by ChromaDex.



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#94 Forever21

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 08:52 PM

So for the rest of us consumers who just want to buy this substance, what I gather is this...

 

 

1. Tru Niagen by ChromaDex - preferable if you are on the NR side OR NMN by Alive if you're not.

2. HPN is the second choice or Elysium or ProHealth.

 

Did I get that right?


Edited by Forever21, 07 October 2017 - 08:55 PM.


#95 Advocatus Diaboli

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 09:26 PM

Daniel Cooper (post #93), thumbs up is good as long as HPN isn't stepping on the NR they get from ChromaDex (or whoever) before they encapsulate it. It was noted in another thread that there was color variation for the same lot # with some HPN. How does that happen, I wonder?


Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 07 October 2017 - 09:33 PM.


#96 MikeDC

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 09:35 PM

So for the rest of us consumers who just want to buy this substance, what I gather is this...


1. Tru Niagen by ChromaDex - preferable if you are on the NR side OR NMN by Alive if you're not.
2. HPN is the second choice or Elysium or ProHealth.

Did I get that right?

Prohealth was acquired by ChromaDex and its product was Tru Niagen. HPN and other companies who sell Niagen buy powder from ChromaDex. Tru Niagen is most trust worthy. It may be a little more expensive. Elysium used to have Niagen in their Basis. Now they are most likely using a Chinese nockoff. I would not touch Basis since there is no clinical trial or animal study data with the new Basis.
NMN from alivebynature and other vendors have not been tested in studies or clinical trials. There has never been a human study on the pharmacodynamics of oral NMN. So we don't know how it is absorbed or how our body is using it.

Edited by MikeDC, 07 October 2017 - 09:47 PM.

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#97 Forever21

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 05:36 PM

 

So for the rest of us consumers who just want to buy this substance, what I gather is this...


1. Tru Niagen by ChromaDex - preferable if you are on the NR side OR NMN by Alive if you're not.
2. HPN is the second choice or Elysium or ProHealth.

Did I get that right?

Prohealth was acquired by ChromaDex and its product was Tru Niagen. HPN and other companies who sell Niagen buy powder from ChromaDex. Tru Niagen is most trust worthy. It may be a little more expensive. Elysium used to have Niagen in their Basis. Now they are most likely using a Chinese nockoff. I would not touch Basis since there is no clinical trial or animal study data with the new Basis.
NMN from alivebynature and other vendors have not been tested in studies or clinical trials. There has never been a human study on the pharmacodynamics of oral NMN. So we don't know how it is absorbed or how our body is using it.

 

 

 

I'm sold. However, just found out today Tru Niagen doesn't ship outside the US. (I'm in Canada) So it looks like Alive will have my business for now.



#98 MikeDC

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 08:26 PM

However, just found out today Tru Niagen doesn't ship outside the US. (I'm in Canada) So it looks like Alive will have my business for now.


HPN ships overseas. Check out their website.


Edited by Michael, 13 November 2017 - 12:12 AM.

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#99 LawrenceW

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 11:30 PM

 There has never been a human study on the pharmacodynamics of oral NMN. So we don't know how it is absorbed or how our body is using it.

 

Actually there has been.  https://www.egaceuti...pleted-studies/


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#100 2Sunny

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 01:37 PM

 There has never been a human study on the pharmacodynamics of oral NMN. So we don't know how it is absorbed or how our body is using it.

 

Actually there has been.  https://www.egaceuti...pleted-studies/

 

 

That is not a peer reviewed scientific study.  That is a marketing report done by a company selling a supplement with no clinical research in humans to back their claims.  In addition the company uses the age old technique of burying doubt in a pile of unrelated claims too large for anyone to refute.  

 

Back on topic for this thread . . .

 

I would like to add unscientific anecdotal evidence to this thread because I find the opening remarks offensive and ill informed.  

 

I first posted on this website in February:  first post

 

As a recap, I and my family suffer from a late onset incurable and fatal neurodegenerative disorder called Spinocerebellar Ataxia type 1 (SCA1).  This type of illness falls into a category know as polyglutamine disorders which includes diseases like Huntingtons, OPMD, and multiple forms of SCA.  In these disorders the build up of mutant proteins in the brain causes cellular death which results in the neurodegeneration.  Since learning of my affliction I have been researching every mode of possible cure.  About a year ago my research led me to 3 supplements of interest: trehalose, niagen, and pterostilbene.  Initially I started my father, my aunt and myself on just trehalose, but then I quickly added niagen, and later pterostilbene.  My father and my aunt are limited by their age and the damage that has already been done in their bodies so their results were restricted to a cessation of progression and being able to take a few steps with a walker after having only used a wheelchair for more than a year.  I initially reported improvements in balance and endurance, but have since recognized other changes that were in fact symptoms of ataxia that are now gone entirely.  Those symptoms that are now gone included; balance issues, diminishing hand writing skill, difficulty with alliteration, fatigue, loss of strength in my legs, and sleeplessness.  I have also increased my overall regimen to include: diet low in calories and meat, and high in cruciferous vegetables, exercise daily to include 30 mins alternating between weight training, running, and yoga, plus supplements of 40g trehalose in 2 cups of coffee plus sniffing about .3g, niagen 500 mg and pterostilbene 250 mg before bed, plus 2 cups of green tea daily.  In addition to my experience, I have been sharing my regimen with other sufferers of Parkinson, HD, and ataxia and am now in email contact with about 1 dozen people who report similar results to my own.  Lastly, I am in direct contact with Dr. Brenner of Chromadex and Dr. Jeremy Schmahmann of Harvard Med in establishing an n=1 study of biomarkers in my brain to determine if there is evidence of cellular changes in toxicity levels from the mutant ATXN-1 protein caused by my disorder.

 

This is anecdotal information and the information is clearly confounded by the multiple aspects of my regimen, but I vehemently disagree with the OPs opening remarks and will simply add:  NR is NOT trash.

 

However, I will also add that for a normal healthy individual NR will likely have little if any noticeable benefit although it may well confer longterm benefits not yet fully understood, but that remains to be shown.

 

 

For more detailed information on my regimen and my research you can go to Healthunlocked.com/ataxia and search "sunvox"


Edited by 2Sunny, 14 November 2017 - 01:41 PM.

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#101 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:34 PM

Not meaning to divert us off topic, but since you mentioned trehalose being part of your regime, do you have any data one what percentage of orally ingested trehalose ends up in the bloodstream?

 

 

 


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#102 able

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 04:55 PM

Chromadex stock booming the last 2 days - $4.50 to $6.50 - must be some good results from Colorado or other study about to pop.

 

Any idea what that is?  

 

Anxious to see some good news.


Edited by able, 16 November 2017 - 04:57 PM.

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#103 stefan_001

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 07:39 PM

 

 There has never been a human study on the pharmacodynamics of oral NMN. So we don't know how it is absorbed or how our body is using it.

 

Actually there has been.  https://www.egaceuti...pleted-studies/

 

 

That is not a peer reviewed scientific study.  That is a marketing report done by a company selling a supplement with no clinical research in humans to back their claims.  In addition the company uses the age old technique of burying doubt in a pile of unrelated claims too large for anyone to refute.  

 

Back on topic for this thread . . .

 

I would like to add unscientific anecdotal evidence to this thread because I find the opening remarks offensive and ill informed.  

 

I first posted on this website in February:  first post

 

As a recap, I and my family suffer from a late onset incurable and fatal neurodegenerative disorder called Spinocerebellar Ataxia type 1 (SCA1).  This type of illness falls into a category know as polyglutamine disorders which includes diseases like Huntingtons, OPMD, and multiple forms of SCA.  In these disorders the build up of mutant proteins in the brain causes cellular death which results in the neurodegeneration.  Since learning of my affliction I have been researching every mode of possible cure.  About a year ago my research led me to 3 supplements of interest: trehalose, niagen, and pterostilbene.  Initially I started my father, my aunt and myself on just trehalose, but then I quickly added niagen, and later pterostilbene.  My father and my aunt are limited by their age and the damage that has already been done in their bodies so their results were restricted to a cessation of progression and being able to take a few steps with a walker after having only used a wheelchair for more than a year.  I initially reported improvements in balance and endurance, but have since recognized other changes that were in fact symptoms of ataxia that are now gone entirely.  Those symptoms that are now gone included; balance issues, diminishing hand writing skill, difficulty with alliteration, fatigue, loss of strength in my legs, and sleeplessness.  I have also increased my overall regimen to include: diet low in calories and meat, and high in cruciferous vegetables, exercise daily to include 30 mins alternating between weight training, running, and yoga, plus supplements of 40g trehalose in 2 cups of coffee plus sniffing about .3g, niagen 500 mg and pterostilbene 250 mg before bed, plus 2 cups of green tea daily.  In addition to my experience, I have been sharing my regimen with other sufferers of Parkinson, HD, and ataxia and am now in email contact with about 1 dozen people who report similar results to my own.  Lastly, I am in direct contact with Dr. Brenner of Chromadex and Dr. Jeremy Schmahmann of Harvard Med in establishing an n=1 study of biomarkers in my brain to determine if there is evidence of cellular changes in toxicity levels from the mutant ATXN-1 protein caused by my disorder.

 

This is anecdotal information and the information is clearly confounded by the multiple aspects of my regimen, but I vehemently disagree with the OPs opening remarks and will simply add:  NR is NOT trash.

 

However, I will also add that for a normal healthy individual NR will likely have little if any noticeable benefit although it may well confer longterm benefits not yet fully understood, but that remains to be shown.

 

 

For more detailed information on my regimen and my research you can go to Healthunlocked.com/ataxia and search "sunvox"

 

 

Hi 2Sunny, thats great that Dr. Brenner has interest. You could also try this person: Dr. Vilhelm Bohr. Or then ask Brenner, I am sure he knows him.

 


Edited by stefan_001, 18 November 2017 - 07:42 PM.


#104 stefan_001

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 10:04 PM

@2sunny

Finally, while it remains to be seen how well NAD+ supple-mentation translates to the clinical treatment of A-T patients, our findings suggest NR and other NAD+ supplementation strategies hold the potential to at least partially offset some of the damaging effects of ATM loss and may improve the quality of life for these individuals.

http://www.tandfonli...01.2017.1285631



#105 Oakman

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:35 PM

While I appreciate the OP's frustration and sense of humor, I find it far more telling that on TruNiagen's website (Chromadex), under the "Science" heading, and "Humand Studies of NR", they simply refer you with a link to www.clinicaltrials.gov. So, OK, I went there and searched as directed. 

 

Fourteen studies, past and current were revealed. Six have been completed between 2014 - 2016. NONE have reported results.

 

What is to be drawn from that? Well, nothing, because there are NO studies with results on NR on www.clinicaltrials.gov


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#106 bluemoon

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:25 PM

 

Fourteen studies, past and current were revealed. Six have been completed between 2014 - 2016. NONE have reported results.

 

What is to be drawn from that? Well, nothing, because there are NO studies with results on NR on www.clinicaltrials.gov

 

Elysium has reported that its eight week trial showed that 250 mg of NR with 50 mg of pterostlbine raised NAD+ levels 40% and that a double dose raised NAD+ by almost 90%. 

 

In July Guarente (Elysium) said that more NR trials are underway with more specific health targets. One thing I didn't like about his short upadate (on Youtube as "Guarante 3") is that he didn't say the 8 week study already had several markers that they were analying like glucose levels, cholesterol, etc. 


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#107 able

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:44 PM

 

 

Fourteen studies, past and current were revealed. Six have been completed between 2014 - 2016. NONE have reported results.

 

What is to be drawn from that? Well, nothing, because there are NO studies with results on NR on www.clinicaltrials.gov

 

Elysium has reported that its eight week trial showed that 250 mg of NR with 50 mg of pterostlbine raised NAD+ levels 40% and that a double dose raised NAD+ by almost 90%. 

 

In July Guarente (Elysium) said that more NR trials are underway with more specific health targets. One thing I didn't like about his short upadate (on Youtube as "Guarante 3") is that he didn't say the 8 week study already had several markers that they were analying like glucose levels, cholesterol, etc. 

 

 

All we know for sure is it raises NAD+  (mostly in Liver).

 

However, I am hopeful results in humans will be similar to that in Mice.

 

 The continued silence is perplexing, but seeing the Chromadex stock up to $6.70 now makes me think news on some results are leaking out.

 

 


Edited by able, 26 November 2017 - 03:45 PM.


#108 bluemoon

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 05:37 PM

 

 

All we know for sure is it raises NAD+  (mostly in Liver).

 

However, I am hopeful results in humans will be similar to that in Mice.

 

 The continued silence is perplexing, but seeing the Chromadex stock up to $6.70 now makes me think news on some results are leaking out.

 

 

Why is NAD+ raised "mostly in the liver"?

 

I think Elysium and Chromadex haven't released the detailed results because of timing in that they aren't sure of their own position in the market now and don't want to give the other seller publicity.

 

But I also have thought for a while that the silence may have to do with unfavorable doses. Will many people buy TruNiagen or Basis if an effective dose is 500 mg and you have to pay $2.00 a day, or $800 a year for modest gains? 

 

Also, Dr. Brenner made an interesting statement when he said he doubted that one single study will inspire many to take NR but instead that it will take growing evidence from many studies. The fact that Elysium says it has several more NR human trials coming up make me think the results from last year might need dose refinement to sell well.

 

I still don't thin Elysium is going anywhere and NMN will soon be a player so that Chromadex will continue to have serious compeition and no corner on the health supplement market as it has hoped, which is good news.    


Edited by bluemoon, 26 November 2017 - 05:39 PM.

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#109 stefan_001

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 05:55 PM

I think we are really waiting for peer reviews to complete. Delays at this point are not in Chromadex benefit. They increased their cash position with 50M USD, have the direct to consumer model in place, have all approvals for Niagen to be credible, signed a global deal with AS Watson. So any positive publicity will work in their benefit as other parties havent sorted out their challenges.

#110 bluemoon

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 06:56 PM

I think we are really waiting for peer reviews to complete. Delays at this point are not in Chromadex benefit. 

 

Maybe so but then why not put the results on their website prior to publication as they did with their previous one day trial comparing dosing with 100 mg, 300 mg and 1,000 mg?


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#111 stefan_001

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:03 PM

I think we are really waiting for peer reviews to complete. Delays at this point are not in Chromadex benefit.


Maybe so but then why not put the results on their website prior to publication as they did with their previous one day trial comparing dosing with 100 mg, 300 mg and 1,000 mg?

Peer-reviewed articles provide a trusted form of scientific communication:
https://undsci.berke...scienceworks_16
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#112 bluemoon

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:17 PM


Peer-reviewed articles provide a trusted form of scientific communication:
https://undsci.berke...scienceworks_16

 

 

I was going to mention that, but it didn't stop Chromadex from showing the results of the one day trial a year before the publication came out.


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#113 Ark

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:26 PM

This topic is a perfect example of why myself and others have stopped frequenting these boards as much. Blatant misinformation / ignorance being allowed to persist and the poster(s) constantly involved with propagating it are allowed to continue posting here and doing damage to the credibility of the community. Add in the general lack of moderation in regards to blatant trolling and/or attention whoring, the vehemence being allowed to spew back and forth between people, and the infiltration of commercial interests and we have turned into a pool of excrement more fitting for reddit than longecity.

It honestly is sad.

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#114 stefan_001

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 10:21 PM

Peer-reviewed articles provide a trusted form of scientific communication:
https://undsci.berke...scienceworks_16
I was going to mention that, but it didn't stop Chromadex from showing the results of the one day trial a year before the publication came out.
They probably did that because they needed positive publicity at that point to boost the company profile. Also just the fact that NR raises NAD+ is probably not good enough for publication in a top scientific publication.

Edited by stefan_001, 26 November 2017 - 10:26 PM.

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#115 whileitravel

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 02:12 AM


 


 

 

 

 

I'm sold. However, just found out today Tru Niagen doesn't ship outside the US. (I'm in Canada) So it looks like Alive will have my business for now.

 

I live in Canada and I can tell you you can find Tru Niagen on Amazon.ca.

 



#116 DareDevil

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 05:39 PM

After taking 'true Niagen' NR at doses between 125mg and 375mg daily orally, I gave up on it. That was because I didn't note any significant effects, and I am looking at a full bottle of it that I don't think I will use again. Hearing claims of the great benefits of NAD+ IV Drip treatments especially in cases of addiction, I tried injecting NAD+ filtered for bacteria in doses between 50mg and 150mg. I plan to go higher gradually but I haven't noticed much aside from a bit of nausea. I can't say NR and/or NAD+ is trash, but I can't say it isn't. You will note that I am making efforts to give it every chance and I do hope to have positive results to report. Until then I suspend judgment. FWIW ` DD


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#117 able

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 06:15 PM

After taking 'true Niagen' NR at doses between 125mg and 375mg daily orally, I gave up on it. That was because I didn't note any significant effects, and I am looking at a full bottle of it that I don't think I will use again. Hearing claims of the great benefits of NAD+ IV Drip treatments especially in cases of addiction, I tried injecting NAD+ filtered for bacteria in doses between 50mg and 150mg. I plan to go higher gradually but I haven't noticed much aside from a bit of nausea. I can't say NR and/or NAD+ is trash, but I can't say it isn't. You will note that I am making efforts to give it every chance and I do hope to have positive results to report. Until then I suspend judgment. FWIW ` DD

 

It's good you are keeping an open mind about NR.  

 

But it sounds like you are maybe expecting too much from it.

 

Yes, some users report some very noticeable benefits such as energy, sleep, hair, skin, etc.   

 

But it's likely that most users don't experience any noticeable change - that doesn't mean it is ineffective.

 

The Basis study that was just published was a bit underwhelming, but did show an increased mobility.

 

I believe and hope to see proof it does a lot more.  But improved muscle strength/mobiilty is a clear benefit, even if its not noticeable daily.



#118 Oakman

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 07:42 PM

After taking 'true Niagen' NR at doses between 125mg and 375mg daily orally, I gave up on it. That was because I didn't note any significant effects, and I am looking at a full bottle of it that I don't think I will use again. Hearing claims of the great benefits of NAD+ IV Drip treatments especially in cases of addiction, I tried injecting NAD+ filtered for bacteria in doses between 50mg and 150mg. I plan to go higher gradually but I haven't noticed much aside from a bit of nausea. I can't say NR and/or NAD+ is trash, but I can't say it isn't. You will note that I am making efforts to give it every chance and I do hope to have positive results to report. Until then I suspend judgment. FWIW ` DD

 

My question to you would be just what "effects" or "positive results" were you expecting? You sort of infer you need help with addiction, but I've not heard or read that it is effective for this, maybe I've missed those reports. NR does raise NAD+ levels, with some benefit to strength and some blood metrics, at least in older people, but for healthy younger people (or animals) with no metabolic deficits, there's precious little of note I remember being reported in studies... yet.

 

Certainly there are many anecdotal reports of benefits w/NR supplementation, but they need to be taken as individual subjective opinions, not scientific fact. In fact, there are so many different results people believe they get, it's difficult to take the leap of faith that NR does all the things attributed to it. Newly introduced 'wonder drugs' have a habit of having this effect on people...there's a long list of them.

 

BTW, are you making your own injectables from commercial NR formulations or getting them from a doctor?


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#119 stefan_001

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 09:12 PM

I think once you pass 40 taking NR starts to be meaningful. Somewhere between 40 and 45 the visible decay sets in with most people, probably internally it has been progressing at a higher speed already several years before.


Edited by stefan_001, 29 November 2017 - 09:12 PM.

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