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Reoccurring dreams - Is it purely your consciousness and "fake" or does it carry a "message"?

dreams reoccurring

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#1 YoungSchizo

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 07:50 PM


Hey guys,

 

I've been brought up religious though I was never practicing it, I was really skeptical about religion as it is. But what I do believed in was spirituality, I always thought/believed the mind and spirit were two separate things. The first psychosis I went through had a (deep-grounded) spiritual aspect to it. If I would tell my story/psychosis in a spiritual way it all makes sense, however if I look at it scientifically there's no distinction between the mind and spirit and I'm wrong.

When I accepted science that my brain was "sick", I got rid of all my religious/spiritual believes and became an atheist for 5 years. When my second psychosis occurred I made a 180 degrees turn and became agnostic. I had my third, fourth and fifth (spiritual) psychosis but I remained skeptical about both spirituality and science and to this day I remain agnostic.

 

Anyway, slowly working up to my question. When I broke my relationship with my childhood girlfriend and we separated in really bad terms on both sides 13 years ago. I had this reoccurring dream where she didn't talk to me anymore, in real life but also in my dreams, this dream repeated itself for many years. Two years ago I've send her a short message that I'm sorry for (unconsciously) hurting her and that I wanted to talk things through with her. She didn't respond and I thought she didn't want to so I moved on.

Yesterday I had a vivid dream where she stepped up to me and just about when she wanted to talk to me all of a sudden my bedroom window flew right open and I woke up. Yesterday I stood still trying/thinking to figure out if this meant something, meanwhile when I was thinking I vaguely recalled that the content of my dreams I've once had (where she didn't talk to me anymore) had changed after my message to her. I recalled that she (in my dreams) was trying different ways to get in contact with me again but they were never as strong as this last dream where she stepped up to me.

 

I've written this on several sites and got different reply's (the most favoring was that I should contact her again in real-life). I myself am "confused", is my mind/dreams playing tricks on me or do some dreams really carry deep-grounded messages? (In the series Sopranos this issue about dreams and the meaning of dreams and/or the message is discussed several times between main character and his pdoc. I don't know if this is pure for the series or do psychologist/psychiatrists really talk about content of dreams in real-life?)

 

What are your opinions?



#2 jack black

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 10:57 PM

ask different people and you'll get different answers and still not sure which are correct (just like religion). based on my personal experience, there is no such thing as telepathy of prophetic dream (or god). however, i can see how some people may believe or feel there is one.



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#3 Kinesis

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 11:27 PM

At the simplest level, dreams are the sleep equivalent of thinking while you’re awake. When you’re awake, the real stimuli and sensory input from your environment overwhelm your internal visualization processes. When you’re asleep, though, those stimuli and sensory inputs are muted or blocked. Without competition from the outside, the sights and sounds of your imagination take center stage in your consciousness and become almost real.

Of course this doesn’t mean dreams don’t have any higher significance, but probably most don’t. Some probably do, but I know of no sure way to tell one from the other before the passage of time reveals it. The same might be said of our wakening thoughts.

#4 YoungSchizo

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 01:52 AM

ask different people and you'll get different answers and still not sure which are correct (just like religion). based on my personal experience, there is no such thing as telepathy of prophetic dream (or god). however, i can see how some people may believe or feel there is one.

 

I'm open to a being that's called a "god", I'm agnostic. But only when there's a scientific theory proof for it to back it up. If not, I remain agnostic.

 

At the simplest level, dreams are the sleep equivalent of thinking while you’re awake. When you’re awake, the real stimuli and sensory input from your environment overwhelm your internal visualization processes. When you’re asleep, though, those stimuli and sensory inputs are muted or blocked. Without competition from the outside, the sights and sounds of your imagination take center stage in your consciousness and become almost real.

Of course this doesn’t mean dreams don’t have any higher significance, but probably most don’t. Some probably do, but I know of no sure way to tell one from the other before the passage of time reveals it. The same might be said of our wakening thoughts.

 

My dreams on a daily basis are mainly un-significant. I (almost) never have nightmares and have only pleasant dreams. But when it comes to someone you beloved, it, the vivid dream about your beloved one comes significant.. If you want it or not, you might might wander what the dream means. And that's the case with me (because I recollect almost every dream I have). Do I, or should I react to the dreams I have is the real question to me?

 

I'm tempted to react to it (in real life) honestly.



#5 Kinesis

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 03:23 AM

ask different people and you'll get different answers and still not sure which are correct (just like religion). based on my personal experience, there is no such thing as telepathy of prophetic dream (or god). however, i can see how some people may believe or feel there is one.

I'm open to a being that's called a "god", I'm agnostic. But only when there's a scientific theory proof for it to back it up. If not, I remain agnostic.

At the simplest level, dreams are the sleep equivalent of thinking while you’re awake. When you’re awake, the real stimuli and sensory input from your environment overwhelm your internal visualization processes. When you’re asleep, though, those stimuli and sensory inputs are muted or blocked. Without competition from the outside, the sights and sounds of your imagination take center stage in your consciousness and become almost real.

Of course this doesn’t mean dreams don’t have any higher significance, but probably most don’t. Some probably do, but I know of no sure way to tell one from the other before the passage of time reveals it. The same might be said of our wakening thoughts.

My dreams on a daily basis are mainly un-significant. I (almost) never have nightmares and have only pleasant dreams. But when it comes to someone you beloved, it, the vivid dream about your beloved one comes significant.. If you want it or not, you might might wander what the dream means. And that's the case with me (because I recollect almost every dream I have). Do I, or should I react to the dreams I have is the real question to me?

I'm tempted to react to it (in real life) honestly.
Funny you should say that because although like you I think most dreams don’t have a profound meaning, I recently did have one about a beloved someone and do think it did.

Should you react to it? If you feel that urge, maybe so. The question is how. I’m pondering that myself. Ultimately I think the thing is to use our reasoning powers to think through the actions we could take and the likely outcomes of each, and choose the course whose likely outcome would be the most desirable. That may seem general or vague, but after all we are talking about dreams. On the other hand, it’s pretty much how we would best handle any impulse we have, whether it comes to us in our sleep or in our waking hours. Emotion tells us what we want, logic how to achieve it. It’s part of what makes us human.

...

Edited by Kinesis, 09 December 2017 - 03:24 AM.


#6 airplanepeanuts

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 12:51 PM

I don't think you should get in contact with her because she wants you to do that (in a dream or in real life). Do what your waking self wants to do.

 



#7 YoungSchizo

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 07:49 PM

I'm going to put my pdoc to the test. Let's see what she has to say  :-D



#8 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 07:23 PM

You ARE aware that there is quite some research, both traditional mysticism, and modern science, which implies that the things we THINK dreams are about, are often something completely different? Yes? In traditional dream-interpreting, as I understand it, people often represent aspects of yourself, or some kind of phenomenon around you, and not the actual people themselves.

 

I.e, don't go acting on dreams unless you've actually EXTENSIVELY looked into what they could mean.

 

 

Also, I don't want to be the guy that's all non-poetic and crass, raining on your parade, but much of what you describe of your beliefs and how you see things sounds a lot like "magical thinking", i.e mild thought-disorder, a symptom of Schizophrenia - don't go ascribing too big of an importance to things, yeah? Therein might lie trouble as well.


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#9 YoungSchizo

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 10:46 PM

You ARE aware that there is quite some research, both traditional mysticism, and modern science, which implies that the things we THINK dreams are about, are often something completely different? Yes? In traditional dream-interpreting, as I understand it, people often represent aspects of yourself, or some kind of phenomenon around you, and not the actual people themselves.

 

I.e, don't go acting on dreams unless you've actually EXTENSIVELY looked into what they could mean.

 

 

Also, I don't want to be the guy that's all non-poetic and crass, raining on your parade, but much of what you describe of your beliefs and how you see things sounds a lot like "magical thinking", i.e mild thought-disorder, a symptom of Schizophrenia - don't go ascribing too big of an importance to things, yeah? Therein might lie trouble as well.

 

It's not really part of my schizophrenia, if it was, I would act on it and wouldn't go ask around if some dreams MAY have carrying a "message". I'm also active on a board where 80% of the responses (and they were quite a few and it wasn't a schizophrenia board, just a board where regular 'normal' people hang around) did say I have nothing to lose and they encouraged me to contact her (once more) in real-life. I was just wondering how other people think about (on this site the science of dreams) and their "meanings". And let's be reasonable, the majority of religious/spiritual beings (and they outnumber us atheists and agnostics) do attach a meaning to dreams and act upon them.

 

But how about those Sopranos scenes where dreams are discussed between the main character and his psychiatrist? Is it just Hollywood stuff?

 

Anyway, after logically thinking things through and analyzing the past again I've decided not to contact her but for the record I will bring it up this Friday with my pdoc because it's still interesting how the content of my dreams changed and I like to have more insight into it.  



#10 jack black

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 04:30 PM

You ARE aware that there is quite some research, both traditional mysticism, and modern science, which implies that the things we THINK dreams are about, are often something completely different?

 

are you saying there is a scientific research done on what dreams mean? i need to look it up.



#11 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 06:50 PM

 

You ARE aware that there is quite some research, both traditional mysticism, and modern science, which implies that the things we THINK dreams are about, are often something completely different?

 

are you saying there is a scientific research done on what dreams mean? i need to look it up.

 

 

You know what, I was full of bullsh*t, it turns out - the stuff I was thinking about was early modern psychology, the sort of stuff they were talking about around 1910 or so, Freud and Jung. That doesn't necessarily mean anything...

 

You made me look it up though, and science has apparently had two different hypothesises:

 

1) Nothing - they are random image and memories, which the brain is sorting through an entirely subconscious process.

 

2) Threat-preparation - other animals dream, in fact, all sentient beings, it would appear - dreams allows the brain to go through processes and situations that arise, and then "train" you to function accurately when in waking moment as well - many dogs for instance, appear to dream of hunting... doing various movements that are similar to such things.

 

 

New, neurogimaging and advanced EEG-data however seems to support a little bit of both: it has to do with memories! Sorting and analyzing indeed, not just threats though - there's also some info about the actual parts of the brain that dreaming comes out of! The right inferior lingual gyrus, which then feeds back and forth into both the amygdala and hippocampus - two areas of the brain frequently referenced here on the boards.

 

Scientific American has an interesting article about it:

 

https://www.scientif...ehind-dreaming/


Edited by Stinkorninjor, 14 December 2017 - 06:51 PM.

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#12 YoungSchizo

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:29 PM

The article is interesting.

 

 

This finding is interesting because the increased frontal theta activity the researchers observed looks just like the successful encoding and retrieval of autobiographical memories seen while we are awake. That is, it is the same electrical oscillations in the frontal cortex that make the recollection of episodic memories (e.g., things that happened to you) possible. Thus, these findings suggest that the neurophysiological mechanisms that we employ while dreaming (and recalling dreams) are the same as when we construct and retrieve memories while we are awake.

 

So, if I interpret this right, the same parts while we are awake are also active while dreaming? If so, the big question for me is, how did the same content I had for many years in my dreams (where she wouldn't talk to me) changed even though I haven't spoken to the girl in 12 years and almost never think about her anymore (I was thinking about other girls and relationship for years  :happy: ).

 

I had an appointment today with my pdoc, even she didn't really could give me a clear answer to it. The only thing she was clear about was is the same what you always hear, that, in your dreams, you process things about what happened to you on a daily bases and/or think about while you're awake.

 

 

A very rare clinical condition known as “Charcot-Wilbrand Syndrome” has been known to cause (among other neurological symptoms) loss of the ability to dream.  However, it was not until a few years ago that a patient reported to have lost her ability to dream while having virtually no other permanent neurological symptoms. The patient suffered a lesion in a part of the brain known as the right inferior lingual gyrus (located in the visual cortex).

 

Damn, I wish I had that syndrome!  :laugh:  I frequently wake-up due and recall every damn fucking dream. Though, I must admit, since I'm on Gabapentin for 4 weeks my sleep has improved quite a lot. I still wake-up but not that frequent anymore and most of the time I don't recall what I dreamed. On some occasion and especially in the weekend when I drink alcohol I don't wake-up at all! That's "new" to me! Ever since having schizophrenia I woke up at least 1-2 times and this past year 7-8 times!

 

Anyway.. I haven't looked up the lingual gyrus yet but do you guys know any supplements/drugs that decrease the activity of that part of the brain?  



#13 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:16 PM

The article is interesting.

 

 

This finding is interesting because the increased frontal theta activity the researchers observed looks just like the successful encoding and retrieval of autobiographical memories seen while we are awake. That is, it is the same electrical oscillations in the frontal cortex that make the recollection of episodic memories (e.g., things that happened to you) possible. Thus, these findings suggest that the neurophysiological mechanisms that we employ while dreaming (and recalling dreams) are the same as when we construct and retrieve memories while we are awake.

 

So, if I interpret this right, the same parts while we are awake are also active while dreaming? If so, the big question for me is, how did the same content I had for many years in my dreams (where she wouldn't talk to me) changed even though I haven't spoken to the girl in 12 years and almost never think about her anymore (I was thinking about other girls and relationship for years  :happy: ).

 

I had an appointment today with my pdoc, even she didn't really could give me a clear answer to it. The only thing she was clear about was is the same what you always hear, that, in your dreams, you process things about what happened to you on a daily bases and/or think about while you're awake.

 

 

A very rare clinical condition known as “Charcot-Wilbrand Syndrome” has been known to cause (among other neurological symptoms) loss of the ability to dream.  However, it was not until a few years ago that a patient reported to have lost her ability to dream while having virtually no other permanent neurological symptoms. The patient suffered a lesion in a part of the brain known as the right inferior lingual gyrus (located in the visual cortex).

 

Damn, I wish I had that syndrome!  :laugh:  I frequently wake-up due and recall every damn fucking dream. Though, I must admit, since I'm on Gabapentin for 4 weeks my sleep has improved quite a lot. I still wake-up but not that frequent anymore and most of the time I don't recall what I dreamed. On some occasion and especially in the weekend when I drink alcohol I don't wake-up at all! That's "new" to me! Ever since having schizophrenia I woke up at least 1-2 times and this past year 7-8 times!

 

Anyway.. I haven't looked up the lingual gyrus yet but do you guys know any supplements/drugs that decrease the activity of that part of the brain?  

 

I am SO happy to hear that your sleep is finally better! :-D

 

It's too bad that it wouldn't work for negative symptoms, but that was never a given - the sleep-improvement was always the plan! = ) A plan finally coming into fruition... ^^
 

 

Never heard of Lingual Gyrus before this, but it's worth checking out, for sure.



#14 nickthird

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 07:06 AM

I also sometimes have dreams about people who I knew decades ago. I also sometimes have dreams about my mother who passed away and then I wake up and remember each time that she is gone...

I don't think your subconscious is that intelligent. I see dreams as a form of entertainment. They are often movie like and game like for me. Think of it basically composing scenes using objects it has in storage (though I often have unknown people in my dreams). The more you are/were emotionally attached to someone the bigger the odds of them showing up in a dream.
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#15 baccheion

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 04:32 AM

Are you healthy? It could mean something basic (nutrient/neurotransmitter imbalance), or as is commonly said, could be a sign of unresolved emotions/issues. Looping implies higher norepinephrine.

You could try a lucid dreaming stack (L-tryptophan + mugwort or calea z, then alpha-GPC + galantamine 4 hours in) to see if it has any effect.

Megadose niacin (taper up to 1g with 2g vitamin C) is said to clear adrenochrome and other waste.

You could also try brainwave entrainment audio (different frequencies) to see if it affects dream content.

Noopept + aniracetam alleviates many issues caused by schizophrenia, as does sarcosine (or maybe trimethylglycine).

Edited by baccheion, 24 December 2017 - 04:37 AM.


#16 xEva

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 03:03 PM

YoungSchizo, whatever they tell you, ESP between people with heave emotional involvement does exist (it took me many years to accept this. you learn the most through feedback, when available). So you can take the content of your dreams at face value (their main message). First you dreamt that she did not want to talk to you, and that's how it was. Now her attitude changed. You should get in touch with her. And it does not mean that you should get involved again. It's just not right to be on non-speaking terms with an old childhood friend.  

 

 


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#17 YoungSchizo

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 10:53 PM

YoungSchizo, whatever they tell you, ESP between people with heave emotional involvement does exist (it took me many years to accept this. you learn the most through feedback, when available). So you can take the content of your dreams at face value (their main message). First you dreamt that she did not want to talk to you, and that's how it was. Now her attitude changed. You should get in touch with her. And it does not mean that you should get involved again. It's just not right to be on non-speaking terms with an old childhood friend.


I don't know xEva.. What is ESP?

The reason I've gone from being an atheist to a semi-spiritual being is is because some things I experienced science could not explain, some things that happened in the past is by far not all psychotic/delusional experiences but it's very hard to pin down without thinking outside the box, in other words involving spirituality.

If I may ask, can you give me some examples from your own life/experiences why I should trust the "message" in my dreams?

#18 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 11:01 PM

 

YoungSchizo, whatever they tell you, ESP between people with heave emotional involvement does exist (it took me many years to accept this. you learn the most through feedback, when available). So you can take the content of your dreams at face value (their main message). First you dreamt that she did not want to talk to you, and that's how it was. Now her attitude changed. You should get in touch with her. And it does not mean that you should get involved again. It's just not right to be on non-speaking terms with an old childhood friend.


I don't know xEva.. What is ESP?

The reason I've gone from being an atheist to a semi-spiritual being is is because some things I experienced science could not explain, some things that happened in the past is by far not all psychotic/delusional experiences but it's very hard to pin down without thinking outside the box, in other words involving spirituality.

If I may ask, can you give me some examples from your own life/experiences why I should trust the "message" in my dreams?

 

 

ESP = Extra-Sensory Perception.

 

Aka the fictional ability to perceive beyond established scientific boundaries - to see the future, the dead, the unknown past or mystic beings from other dimensions. Basically... a bunch of superhero, science-fiction, fantasy -magic stuff. Good for a cheap laugh now and then, I rather enjoy X-men, Dr. Strange, Lord of the Rings, and X-files - but that's all it is.

 

No one, even though there have been an entire university-section devoted to it, and USAian, Soviet and Nazi(!) arms-research sections devoted to it, has ever been able to present anything even remotely acceptable as evidence.

 

It was a bit of a passion of mine when I was young, starting with a book about the paranormal I found in my grandmothers library, so I have some knowledge about this.
 


Edited by Stinkorninjor, 24 December 2017 - 11:02 PM.


#19 xEva

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 02:30 AM

By ESP I meant telepathy, or being able to sense the thoughts (actually, feelings translated into words) of a person with whom you have a deep connection, such as your friend.

 

For the doubters here, there is an easy way to prove its existence to yourself. The absolute requirement is that your willing partner in this experiment must be a person with whom you share long emotional history, such as a relative, lover or a friend.

 

The protocol is easy though it requires discipline and commitment: when you are away from each other, preferably many, many miles apart (could be on diff. continents) whenever a thought about that person pops up in your mind, you should jot down time and a few words to indicate in what context that thought appeared. You should also write  couple of words about what you were doing at the time.Your partner must do the same, whenever they think of you.

 

Again, this requires commitment and discipline, because it is not always convenient or possible to follow to the protocol to the t. But as long as you stick to it, here is what you will undoubtedly discover in the end, when you compare the notes:

 

1. whenever you think of that person, 90-95% of the time, at that very time, that other person also thinks of you. 

 

2. in whatever context it was, according to your notes, 75-80% will coincide.

 

Seeing is believing.  Until you do this experiment, do not say telepathy does not exist. 

 

After you have done it and, naturally, became intrigued, you can explore it further and hone your ability. The first step is to realize that connection exists and it means something. What? It's up to you to discover. In the good ole days, long before cell phones, when calling another city required a trip to the.. telegraph was it called? Some people used it as means of communication. Successfully.  

 

But of course this is commonplace when something dramatic is going on with that other person. The signal then is very strong and it's hard to miss it even for people who never thought it possible.  Such stories are abound and if you personally have never experienced it, it usually means that you're still  young and it is ahead of you. 


Edited by xEva, 25 December 2017 - 02:47 AM.


#20 YoungSchizo

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 03:17 AM

By ESP I meant telepathy, or being able to sense the thoughts (actually, feelings translated into words) of a person with whom you have a deep connection, such as your friend.

For the doubters here, there is an easy way to prove its existence to yourself. The absolute requirement is that your willing partner in this experiment must be a person with whom you share long emotional history, such as a relative, lover or a friend.

The protocol is easy though it requires discipline and commitment: when you are away from each other, preferably many, many miles apart (could be on diff. continents) whenever a thought about that person pops up in your mind, you should jot down time and a few words to indicate in what context that thought appeared. You should also write couple of words about what you were doing at the time.Your partner must do the same, whenever they think of you.

Again, this requires commitment and discipline, because it is not always convenient or possible to follow to the protocol to the t. But as long as you stick to it, here is what you will undoubtedly discover in the end, when you compare the notes:

1. whenever you think of that person, 90-95% of the time, at that very time, that other person also thinks of you.

2. in whatever context it was, according to your notes, 75-80% will coincide.

Seeing is believing. Until you do this experiment, do not say telepathy does not exist.

After you have done it and, naturally, became intrigued, you can explore it further and hone your ability. The first step is to realize that connection exists and it means something. What? It's up to you to discover. In the good ole days, long before cell phones, when calling another city required a trip to the.. telegraph was it called? Some people used it as means of communication. Successfully.

But of course this is commonplace when something dramatic is going on with that other person. The signal then is very strong and it's hard to miss it even for people who never thought it possible. Such stories are abound and if you personally have never experienced it, it usually means that you're still young and it is ahead of you.


Tbh what you describe doesn't seem that crazy.. When two people are in love.. they probably connect on a deeper level emotionally.. I see this happening all around in me in couples whom have a deep connection emotionally.. Same case does apply with the emotional connection I'm having with my parents or my siblings. Whenever I'm having an heated argument with my parents or siblings I tend to hear their thoughts in my mind.. However, although it seems possible, I don't think we telepathically comunicate though..

The thing I'm struggling with is (although we had a deep emotional attachment to one and another) that I haven't spoken to this girl for 12/13 years.. Do the content of dreams really matter?

#21 xEva

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 04:56 AM

You have dreams about her, because you ignore the signal when awake.

 

You do not communicate telepathically with you relatives, because neither of you realize that you're having a connection. You could though. To hone this ability, you need feedback. Otherwise it just remains an inconsequential fluctuation in your random thought process. 

 

And I have an issue with you calling it "spiritual" (as some people are piqued by "ESP" and I agree, this, too, is a compromised term). Correct me if I'm wrong, but "spiritual" normally refers to a uniquely human ability, but this sort of..."telepathy"? ..is shared by all animals, especially prey. Now, naturally animals don't think in words but they do think. The predator selects the prey, stalks it and, just before charging, sorta aims at it. The prey animal that does not sense this becomes a meal, and the one that does, reacts and thus has a chance to live and procreate. See how this ability has been strongly selected by evolution?

 

It has nothing to do with "higher human ability", because it sits in the amygdala. "Spiritual" practices, such as some forms of meditation, can augment this ability in humans, because they tend to integrate the working of the brain (hemispheres synchronize, etc). This results in a weak signal from the amygdala reaching the cortex and => awareness. 

 

And speaking of animals, they don't "think" oh! I think a lion is stalking me. They jolt for no apparent reason, just like we turn around, absentmindedly, when someone stares at our back. If we see the person staring, we realize why we turned, post factum. If the person is hidden from our view, we think we just turned around. why not, and promptly forget about it. But it was the signal from the amygdala that made us turn. 

 

And yes, I also hear my mom's thought (not all of them, thank god!) But whenever people think about me, I "hear". Sometimes precise words, but usually just the main emotional content. When it started, it was very strong, when I was 8 or 9. I "heard" people's thoughts -- just strangers passing by on the street -- and could not believe the shit they were saying! So I looked at their mouth and saw that it was not moving. And I heard it for real, the voice, intonation, etc! Dismayed, I ran to mom, crying, I hear people's thoughts! She assured me that this was all in my head. And I believed her. It's too bad my father was not around (they were divorced) for he could reassure me (he was the one who conducted the experiment above, with his friend). So I tried very hard to not "hear" any of that. And succeeded in the end. But this caused me lotsa turmoil.

 

The only fun that came of it was when I pointed out a classmate who was about to be called to the board, to recite the lesson (in middle school). I sorta "saw" what teacher saw looking at the class register, when he/she selected a pupil to call and kinda "heard" the thought process.  And I was never wrong. Once it was my turn, so I was already standing when the teacher lifted his head. My classmates giggled. That was a fun period that lasted maybe a semester. I have not a clue how I did it, I just did.

 

 

Looks like your name here reflects a self-diagnosis on your part. You're not crazy, simply more signals from the ancient part of the brain are reaching your awareness than in most people. Don't waste so much time fighting it, as I did. I'm writing all this to you, because I know how much turmoil and suffering this can cause. 

  


Edited by xEva, 25 December 2017 - 05:18 AM.

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#22 Sleepdealer

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 07:57 PM

Dreams can have a deep emotional impact sometimes and can leave you touched as you wake up, speaking from personal experience. But it doesn't mean that the content is telepathically sent messages even if the occasional dream sometimes seems to have a message or are relevant to our interests. It may only reflect your own thoughts. Why would she suddenly change her mind about contacting you two years after you sent her the apology? You tried to opened up to her after 11 years of mutual silence so she knows that you are open to contact. And two years down the road you have recieved nothing from her. It doesn't sound like she's interested. Unless you want to trust a dream. Personally, I wouldn't do it based on that, just from what I can know with some certainty.



#23 pamojja

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 08:19 PM

 

Yesterday I had a vivid dream where she stepped up to me and just about when she wanted to talk to me all of a sudden my bedroom window flew right open and I woke up.

 

Dreams can be symbolizations of something known on a deeper, pre-conscious level. The best method to unlock it's probable meaning I found is 'focusing assistance', where one leaves aside for short moment any rationalizations and tries to sense it's implication more with the totality of one's body. Though I could be wrong, you're sudden awakening cutting of the dream could just for example also mean it's you, who isn't ready.



#24 Sleepdealer

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 08:55 PM

 

xEva: Correct me if I'm wrong, but "spiritual" normally refers to a uniquely human ability, but this sort of..."telepathy"? ..is shared by all animals, especially prey. Now, naturally animals don't think in words but they do think. The predator selects the prey, stalks it and, just before charging, sorta aims at it. The prey animal that does not sense this becomes a meal, and the one that does, reacts and thus has a chance to live and procreate. See how this ability has been strongly selected by evolution?

 

It has nothing to do with "higher human ability", because it sits in the amygdala. "Spiritual" practices, such as some forms of meditation, can augment this ability in humans, because they tend to integrate the working of the brain (hemispheres synchronize, etc). This results in a weak signal from the amygdala reaching the cortex and => awareness. 

 

And speaking of animals, they don't "think" oh! I think a lion is stalking me. They jolt for no apparent reason, just like we turn around, absentmindedly, when someone stares at our back. If we see the person staring, we realize why we turned, post factum. If the person is hidden from our view, we think we just turned around. why not, and promptly forget about it. But it was the signal from the amygdala that made us turn.

[...]

 

What are you getting all this from exactly? Because this is not close to any established knowledge as far as I know, but you seem to come off like it is scientifically established. There are different variations of prey animals, but some prey animals have excellent sight and hearing, like rabbits or steppe animals. They have their eyes located more on the sides of their heads which allows them to see better around them and their ears are big and shaped like parabolas that they can twist and turn so they can hear well from all angles. They are vigilant creatures. Those qualities have been strongly selected by natural evolution. But they also have telepathy? It's not something you hear about on National Geographic or Animal Planet exactly. Yes, the amygdala. It receives signals from the sensory systems. So you then mean that there is some part of the cortex that can sense and decipher telepathic signals and then sends the signal to the amygdala and both animals and humans?
I don't mean to derail the topic from YoungSchizos decision making, but if you are going to encourage him to take certain actions and also suggest that his schizophrenia diagnosis is false and self-diagnosed (!) based on that telepathy is an actual thing, you better had substantiated it a bit more than you have so far.


Edited by Sleepdealer, 26 December 2017 - 09:46 PM.

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#25 xEva

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 10:49 PM

 

 

xEva: Correct me if I'm wrong, but "spiritual" normally refers to a uniquely human ability, but this sort of..."telepathy"? ..is shared by all animals, especially prey. Now, naturally animals don't think in words but they do think. The predator selects the prey, stalks it and, just before charging, sorta aims at it. The prey animal that does not sense this becomes a meal, and the one that does, reacts and thus has a chance to live and procreate. See how this ability has been strongly selected by evolution?

 

It has nothing to do with "higher human ability", because it sits in the amygdala. "Spiritual" practices, such as some forms of meditation, can augment this ability in humans, because they tend to integrate the working of the brain (hemispheres synchronize, etc). This results in a weak signal from the amygdala reaching the cortex and => awareness. 

 

And speaking of animals, they don't "think" oh! I think a lion is stalking me. They jolt for no apparent reason, just like we turn around, absentmindedly, when someone stares at our back. If we see the person staring, we realize why we turned, post factum. If the person is hidden from our view, we think we just turned around. why not, and promptly forget about it. But it was the signal from the amygdala that made us turn.

[...]

 

What are you getting all this from exactly? Because this is not close to any established knowledge as far as I know, but you seem to come off like it is scientifically established. There are different variations of prey animals, but some prey animals have excellent sight and hearing, like rabbits or steppe animals. They have their eyes located more on the sides of their heads which allows them to see better around them and their ears are big and shaped like parabolas that they can twist and turn so they can hear well from all angles. They are vigilant creatures. Those qualities have been strongly selected by natural evolution. But they also have telepathy? It's not something you hear about on National Geographic or Animal Planet exactly. Yes, the amygdala. It receives signals from the sensory systems. So you then mean that there is some part of the cortex that can sense and decipher telepathic signals and then sends the signal to the amygdala?
I don't mean to derail the topic from YoungSchizos decision making, but if you are going to encourage him to take certain actions and also suggest that his schizophrenia diagnosis is false and self-diagnosed (!) based on that telepathy is an actual thing, you better had substantiated it a bit more than you have so far.

 

 

 

 

Of course, none of what I wrote is supported by the current state of science.  I spent decades trying to understand this issue and above is my take on it. 

 

And true, sorry, initially I did not read all the details and skipped the part about him being under "pdoc". I read again later but that did not change my original impression, namely, that he accepted the diagnosis only because science could not explain his experiences. And so being a rational person, he accepted the suggestion that he must be crazy. 

 

There is a lot science cannot explain but this won't make the phenomena in question go away. For people like him and me it's better to come to terms with it than trying to fight it, or explain it, or prove it to the skeptics. There are many pitfalls on the way and I wanted to warn him about the worst: accepting that you're crazy, is not much higher on the list than thinking that it must be a sign of exceptional "spirituality".

 

And yes, I'm certain that animals have this 6th sense. It HAS been selected by evolution -- how could it not be! The remnants of it are revealed in us when we turn around when someone stares. And not just turn! -- we turn and look exactly in the right direction -- out of at least 60 degrees  reasonable span. What makes us do it?


Edited by xEva, 26 December 2017 - 11:26 PM.

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#26 pamojja

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 11:18 PM

And yes, I'm certain that animals have this 6th sense. It HAS been selected by evolution -- how could it not be! The remnants of it are revealed in us when we turn around when someone stares. And not just turn! -- we turn and look exactly in the right direction -- out of at least 60 degrees  reasonable span. What makes us do it?

 

Actually have a striking supporting experience. In my youth smoking pot and thereby getting a bid paranoid about cops, I soon realized whenever the thought about cops came up in my mind, they were just around the corner. Though I quit pot short after, that sixth sense hasn't left me since.

 

 

PS: A bid a evolutionary mismatch, since I don't engage in any criminal activities at all...


Edited by pamojja, 26 December 2017 - 11:20 PM.

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#27 airplanepeanuts

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 03:35 PM

You guys should go to the casino :)



#28 YoungSchizo

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 07:58 PM

You have dreams about her, because you ignore the signal when awake.

 

You do not communicate telepathically with you relatives, because neither of you realize that you're having a connection. You could though. To hone this ability, you need feedback. Otherwise it just remains an inconsequential fluctuation in your random thought process. 

 

And I have an issue with you calling it "spiritual" (as some people are piqued by "ESP" and I agree, this, too, is a compromised term). Correct me if I'm wrong, but "spiritual" normally refers to a uniquely human ability, but this sort of..."telepathy"? ..is shared by all animals, especially prey. Now, naturally animals don't think in words but they do think. The predator selects the prey, stalks it and, just before charging, sorta aims at it. The prey animal that does not sense this becomes a meal, and the one that does, reacts and thus has a chance to live and procreate. See how this ability has been strongly selected by evolution?

 

It has nothing to do with "higher human ability", because it sits in the amygdala. "Spiritual" practices, such as some forms of meditation, can augment this ability in humans, because they tend to integrate the working of the brain (hemispheres synchronize, etc). This results in a weak signal from the amygdala reaching the cortex and => awareness. 

 

And speaking of animals, they don't "think" oh! I think a lion is stalking me. They jolt for no apparent reason, just like we turn around, absentmindedly, when someone stares at our back. If we see the person staring, we realize why we turned, post factum. If the person is hidden from our view, we think we just turned around. why not, and promptly forget about it. But it was the signal from the amygdala that made us turn. 

 

And yes, I also hear my mom's thought (not all of them, thank god!) But whenever people think about me, I "hear". Sometimes precise words, but usually just the main emotional content. When it started, it was very strong, when I was 8 or 9. I "heard" people's thoughts -- just strangers passing by on the street -- and could not believe the shit they were saying! So I looked at their mouth and saw that it was not moving. And I heard it for real, the voice, intonation, etc! Dismayed, I ran to mom, crying, I hear people's thoughts! She assured me that this was all in my head. And I believed her. It's too bad my father was not around (they were divorced) for he could reassure me (he was the one who conducted the experiment above, with his friend). So I tried very hard to not "hear" any of that. And succeeded in the end. But this caused me lotsa turmoil.

 

The only fun that came of it was when I pointed out a classmate who was about to be called to the board, to recite the lesson (in middle school). I sorta "saw" what teacher saw looking at the class register, when he/she selected a pupil to call and kinda "heard" the thought process.  And I was never wrong. Once it was my turn, so I was already standing when the teacher lifted his head. My classmates giggled. That was a fun period that lasted maybe a semester. I have not a clue how I did it, I just did.

 

 

Looks like your name here reflects a self-diagnosis on your part. You're not crazy, simply more signals from the ancient part of the brain are reaching your awareness than in most people. Don't waste so much time fighting it, as I did. I'm writing all this to you, because I know how much turmoil and suffering this can cause. 

 

I would be too scared to conduct this experiment!  :unsure: This maybe also be one of the reasons why employees in psychiatry are not allowed to get emotionally involved.. Over a 12 years span (aside from the girl in the past) I have quite a few examples that I might have a "sixth sense" and am able to sometimes hear what people exactly think (happened within psychiatry and outside). Might also be one of the reasons why I always stay up late, that's when all my symptoms subside and am able to enjoy a few hours of total rest (in my head). 



#29 YoungSchizo

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 02:53 AM

 

 

xEva: Correct me if I'm wrong, but "spiritual" normally refers to a uniquely human ability, but this sort of..."telepathy"? ..is shared by all animals, especially prey. Now, naturally animals don't think in words but they do think. The predator selects the prey, stalks it and, just before charging, sorta aims at it. The prey animal that does not sense this becomes a meal, and the one that does, reacts and thus has a chance to live and procreate. See how this ability has been strongly selected by evolution?

 

It has nothing to do with "higher human ability", because it sits in the amygdala. "Spiritual" practices, such as some forms of meditation, can augment this ability in humans, because they tend to integrate the working of the brain (hemispheres synchronize, etc). This results in a weak signal from the amygdala reaching the cortex and => awareness. 

 

And speaking of animals, they don't "think" oh! I think a lion is stalking me. They jolt for no apparent reason, just like we turn around, absentmindedly, when someone stares at our back. If we see the person staring, we realize why we turned, post factum. If the person is hidden from our view, we think we just turned around. why not, and promptly forget about it. But it was the signal from the amygdala that made us turn.

[...]

 

What are you getting all this from exactly? Because this is not close to any established knowledge as far as I know, but you seem to come off like it is scientifically established. There are different variations of prey animals, but some prey animals have excellent sight and hearing, like rabbits or steppe animals. They have their eyes located more on the sides of their heads which allows them to see better around them and their ears are big and shaped like parabolas that they can twist and turn so they can hear well from all angles. They are vigilant creatures. Those qualities have been strongly selected by natural evolution. But they also have telepathy? It's not something you hear about on National Geographic or Animal Planet exactly. Yes, the amygdala. It receives signals from the sensory systems. So you then mean that there is some part of the cortex that can sense and decipher telepathic signals and then sends the signal to the amygdala and both animals and humans?
I don't mean to derail the topic from YoungSchizos decision making, but if you are going to encourage him to take certain actions and also suggest that his schizophrenia diagnosis is false and self-diagnosed (!) based on that telepathy is an actual thing, you better had substantiated it a bit more than you have so far.

 

 

My schizophrenia diagnoses lost it's "strength" for more than 5 years ago.. I've been cleared by two different psychiatrist that I'm not the average 'psychotic/schizophrenic', instead, I'm quite 'normal' according to them. Do I hear voices and/or hallucinate when I'm under emotional stress (love).. Yes.. Do I act on voices/hallucinations? Nope, (I seek help or increase and/or add antipsychotics on my own..)

 

Does telepathy really exist? I don't know.. I never met someone equally to the point of 'craziness' like I am.



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#30 xEva

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 05:32 PM

I would be too scared to conduct this experiment!  :unsure: This maybe also be one of the reasons why employees in psychiatry are not allowed to get emotionally involved.. Over a 12 years span (aside from the girl in the past) I have quite a few examples that I might have a "sixth sense" and am able to sometimes hear what people exactly think (happened within psychiatry and outside). Might also be one of the reasons why I always stay up late, that's when all my symptoms subside and am able to enjoy a few hours of total rest (in my head).



The invitation to conduct the experiment was addressed to the doubters here. There is nothing quite so convincing as personal experience.

But afraid of what? let me guess..  :unsure:  from what you wrote it seems there are only two possibilities: either telepathy is not real and then all is fine, or, if it is, then all other mumbo-jumbo may be real too -- and that just too big a can of worms, right? It may even Include God talking to you (in that unforgettably imperative manner!). But it sounds like you're past that stage already (you wrote that you have become an atheist since then) .

 

I think it maybe a passing phase in that part of the brain maturation, whatever it is. Too bad so few of  us survive it intact, and I too ran to the shrink when "God" started to talk to me (and I was raised as atheist!). She prescribed some antipsychotic, but it turned out that I did not need it anymore: That very same day, the moment I god home, I loudly declared to the four walls: None of this is real! None of this is true! And added for a good measure: What you see is what you get! -- meaning that pragmatic and rational approach should prevail... And, lo and behold, it all stopped. Phew!

 

Not long after that I bumped into a quote from Isaiah (on the billboard in NY subway, out of all places) and waiting for the train could not help thinking that the poor guy must have been psychotic when he wrote that. I recognized in him a fellow sufferer. The rushed, passionate flow of words, the "divine fever" that possessed him -- how strong it must have been to be still sensed throughout millenia and translations! A couple of years later I chanced upon Julian Jaynes, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, and that was very helpful in understanding the experience.

 

So yeah, I think those are just phases in maturation of the brain, and some of us simply get disturbing side effects, just like some babies, when teething, cry in pain, though it's a perfectly normal phase of development. No one would think of alleviating their suffering by zapping those tooth buds out of the jaw, once and for all -- and  no more pain! But this seems the approach contemporary psychiatry takes toward complications as the brain matures, They heavily drug their patients and, worst of all, convince them that they are mad -- and there is nothing worse than no longer being able to rely on your senses. This alone can drive you crazy (Hitchcock's Gaslight).

 

I believe the only way to reinstate the trust in yourself and your senses is to take a pragmatic approach and seek feedback for your unusual experiences. It's like pamojja wrote above how he discovered his sixth sense. It has always been with him, though before he was not paying attention to the random thoughts in his head -- until a situation came up when a thought of a cop was relevant. Then he noticed that ""whenever the thought about cops came up in my mind, they were just around the corner." That's a form of feedback (being observant and mindful). 

 

Re rest (in your head), I found that being heavily engaged in what you're doing works well. It's like when you're so concentrated on what you're doing that you don't hear someone calling you, until they come over and touch you on the shoulder. I must have non-consciously learned this as a survival tactic in my childhood. Surely, if I could block all the noise and commotion around, those "extra" signals did not stand a chance. But true, after 11PM was too my favorite time :)

 
 
 
 

 


Edited by xEva, 29 December 2017 - 06:30 PM.






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