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GPC (choline), Uridine, DHA

choline uridine dha omega-3 epa ump tau b vitamins

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#1411 Jester12341

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 11:49 PM

Ive been taking
600 mg alpha GPC
4 fish oil capsules for 1000mg of DHA
and 1000 mg of RNA for the urdine and dont feel much different. I have been on this for about 4 days should i continue for another week or so. or should i change my dosage a little bit. thanks
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#1412 MrHappy

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 12:10 AM

Ive been taking
600 mg alpha GPC
4 fish oil capsules for 1000mg of DHA
and 1000 mg of RNA for the urdine and dont feel much different. I have been on this for about 4 days should i continue for another week or so. or should i change my dosage a little bit. thanks


Try 1/2 the dose of choline and UMP as the uridine source and you may have better results.

im to ask why is DHA the prefered fatty acid in fish oil for this ? recently i was shown studies showing actually EPA to be involved in the brain more. maybe switch ?


I normally suggest >700mg DHA + >350mg EPA.
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#1413 Raza

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 11:32 AM

There is a paper about its influence on NMDA and AMPA receptors earlier in the thread. It's an NMDA inhibitor and an AMPA promoter. :)

I'd like to read it, but quick ctrl-f-ing of the first seven or so pages doesn't turn it up. D'you have a general idea of where to look, or a good keyword for me?
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#1414 MrHappy

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:06 PM


There is a paper about its influence on NMDA and AMPA receptors earlier in the thread. It's an NMDA inhibitor and an AMPA promoter. :)

I'd like to read it, but quick ctrl-f-ing of the first seven or so pages doesn't turn it up. D'you have a general idea of where to look, or a good keyword for me?


Pubmed ID: 19039933
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/19039933/

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#1415 prunk

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:39 PM

This uridine really sounds like a some sort of wonder supplement. Or should I say the wonder supplement. :) Can't wait to test some. Hopefully already in the beginning of the week Mr Postman brings my Tau along other stuff.

Probably it ain't the first time when someone asks about this, but does anybody knows a good UMP supplier in Europe?

Thanks!

-p-
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#1416 Raza

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 03:26 PM


There is a paper about its influence on NMDA and AMPA receptors earlier in the thread. It's an NMDA inhibitor and an AMPA promoter. :)

I'd like to read it, but quick ctrl-f-ing of the first seven or so pages doesn't turn it up. D'you have a general idea of where to look, or a good keyword for me?


Pubmed ID: 19039933
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/19039933/

Thanks.

I wonder how that works out, when it's counteracting the effects of NMDA antagonists. A couple of possibilities there, kind of wish that abstract included more info.
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#1417 stablemind

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:08 AM

How does inhibiting nmda receptor promote learning? I thought that only activating the nmda receptors, which piracetam does, could do this. Uridine strikes me as an interesting supplement since it doesn't trigger mania, but rather has a stabilizing effect.

Edited by stablemind, 17 September 2012 - 12:09 AM.

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#1418 Hope47

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:11 AM

Took two scoops today and felt terrible.My short term memory suffered and mind was not clear.
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#1419 MrHappy

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:48 PM

Took two scoops today and felt terrible.My short term memory suffered and mind was not clear.


By itself, or with cofactors?
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#1420 Hope47

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:57 PM

Took two scoops today and felt terrible.My short term memory suffered and mind was not clear.


By itself, or with cofactors?



With DHA only.I get my b vitamins from multi which i did not take today.
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#1421 Chadwick

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:31 PM


[...] I've been suffering from something I believe to be a chronic hypodopaminergic state, somewhat similar to the negative symptoms of schizophrenia but much much weaker. Uridine completely alleviated all my symptoms and made me feel like a complete version of myself for the first time in years. Absolutely mind-blowing. [...]


Very interesting.
What are your zinc and copper levels like? Maybe get a blood test?


I'm seeing a doctor next week and I'll ask him to get screened for Wilson's disease. I have some liver symptoms (can't drink alchol three consequetive nights or so without getting derealized/depersonalized for equally many days) so it does makes sense. It would be very ironical if it turned out I have Wilson's, as I recently sequenced the gene involved in the disease as a part of my medical education. Hah! :)
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#1422 MrHappy

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:13 PM


Took two scoops today and felt terrible.My short term memory suffered and mind was not clear.


By itself, or with cofactors?



With DHA only.I get my b vitamins from multi which i did not take today.


Wait and see, I guess. I am assuming it was 1 scoop morning + night? What dose of DHA?
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#1423 MrHappy

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:26 PM



[...] I've been suffering from something I believe to be a chronic hypodopaminergic state, somewhat similar to the negative symptoms of schizophrenia but much much weaker. Uridine completely alleviated all my symptoms and made me feel like a complete version of myself for the first time in years. Absolutely mind-blowing. [...]


Very interesting.
What are your zinc and copper levels like? Maybe get a blood test?


I'm seeing a doctor next week and I'll ask him to get screened for Wilson's disease. I have some liver symptoms (can't drink alchol three consequetive nights or so without getting derealized/depersonalized for equally many days) so it does makes sense. It would be very ironical if it turned out I have Wilson's, as I recently sequenced the gene involved in the disease as a part of my medical education. Hah! :)


The blood tests could be quite helpful. Could just be poor liver function and possibly overproduction of CCK-4,8?

Are you doing anything that would be stressing your liver?

3 days consecutive drinking, especially if that happens to be a common lifestyle scenario for you at the moment, could also be causing issues with GABA receptor imbalances, liver function and as a knock-on effect, depleted b vitamin levels and many others, of course.
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#1424 Chadwick

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:33 PM



[...] I've been suffering from something I believe to be a chronic hypodopaminergic state, somewhat similar to the negative symptoms of schizophrenia but much much weaker. Uridine completely alleviated all my symptoms and made me feel like a complete version of myself for the first time in years. Absolutely mind-blowing. [...]


Very interesting.
What are your zinc and copper levels like? Maybe get a blood test?


I'm seeing a doctor next week and I'll ask him to get screened for Wilson's disease. I have some liver symptoms (can't drink alchol three consequetive nights or so without getting derealized/depersonalized for equally many days) so it does makes sense. It would be very ironical if it turned out I have Wilson's, as I recently sequenced the gene involved in the disease as a part of my medical education. Hah! :)


The blood tests could be quite helpful. Could just be poor liver function and possibly overproduction of CCK-4,8?

Are you doing anything that would be stressing your liver?

3 days consecutive drinking, especially if that happens to be a common lifestyle scenario for you at the moment, could also be causing issues with GABA receptor imbalances, liver function and as a knock-on effect, depleted b vitamin levels and many others, of course.


I generally drink very little, I don't use any medication and can't come up with any apparent reason for having liver problems. I also use a B multi. My big problem is not liver related, however, but of pure psychiatric nature. Hopefully the blood tests will shed some light on this. :) I've also restarted my uridine regimen after a two week break, and hope to get some response back!
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#1425 Hope47

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 06:20 AM


Took two scoops today and felt terrible.My short term memory suffered and mind was not clear.


By itself, or with cofactors?



With DHA only.I get my b vitamins from multi which i did not take today.


Wait and see, I guess. I am assuming it was 1 scoop morning + night? What dose of DHA?



No,two scoops together so that would be 500mg dose.My DHA dose is 1000mg(single dose)
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#1426 MrHappy

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:51 PM




[...] I've been suffering from something I believe to be a chronic hypodopaminergic state, somewhat similar to the negative symptoms of schizophrenia but much much weaker. Uridine completely alleviated all my symptoms and made me feel like a complete version of myself for the first time in years. Absolutely mind-blowing. [...]


Very interesting.
What are your zinc and copper levels like? Maybe get a blood test?


I'm seeing a doctor next week and I'll ask him to get screened for Wilson's disease. I have some liver symptoms (can't drink alchol three consequetive nights or so without getting derealized/depersonalized for equally many days) so it does makes sense. It would be very ironical if it turned out I have Wilson's, as I recently sequenced the gene involved in the disease as a part of my medical education. Hah! :)


The blood tests could be quite helpful. Could just be poor liver function and possibly overproduction of CCK-4,8?

Are you doing anything that would be stressing your liver?

3 days consecutive drinking, especially if that happens to be a common lifestyle scenario for you at the moment, could also be causing issues with GABA receptor imbalances, liver function and as a knock-on effect, depleted b vitamin levels and many others, of course.


I generally drink very little, I don't use any medication and can't come up with any apparent reason for having liver problems. I also use a B multi. My big problem is not liver related, however, but of pure psychiatric nature. Hopefully the blood tests will shed some light on this. :) I've also restarted my uridine regimen after a two week break, and hope to get some response back!


Actually, you'd be surprised how often liver (and related area) issues are fingered in neurological disorders. :)

http://en.m.wikipedi...Cholecystokinin

Also, being that the liver gets 'first dibs' on extracting nutrients from food, the knock-on effect can lead to all sorts of issues stemming from nutritional deficiency.

I'm still curious at this stage what would happen if you supplement zinc.



Took two scoops today and felt terrible.My short term memory suffered and mind was not clear.


By itself, or with cofactors?



With DHA only.I get my b vitamins from multi which i did not take today.


Wait and see, I guess. I am assuming it was 1 scoop morning + night? What dose of DHA?



No,two scoops together so that would be 500mg dose.My DHA dose is 1000mg(single dose)


Try halving the UMP for now.
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#1427 Chadwick

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:04 AM

Actually, you'd be surprised how often liver (and related area) issues are fingered in neurological disorders. :)

http://en.m.wikipedi...Cholecystokinin

Also, being that the liver gets 'first dibs' on extracting nutrients from food, the knock-on effect can lead to all sorts of issues stemming from nutritional deficiency.

I'm still curious at this stage what would happen if you supplement zinc.


Funny you say that - I just finished a one week regimen with 60 mg zinc, 10 mg manganese (another copper antagonist) and a B vitamin complex, and then four days of only zinc. The effects were somewhat devastating. I became incredibly tired, lost all appetite, hade a constant dizziness and feeling of being spaced out, brain fog, tinnitus and I became noticeably emotionally unstable. I also developed knee joint pain.

After stopping the regimen I actually felt better after a day or so than I did when I started it, but this returned to baseline after two days.

I have no idea what conclusions to draw from this.
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#1428 MrHappy

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:14 AM


Actually, you'd be surprised how often liver (and related area) issues are fingered in neurological disorders. :)

http://en.m.wikipedi...Cholecystokinin

Also, being that the liver gets 'first dibs' on extracting nutrients from food, the knock-on effect can lead to all sorts of issues stemming from nutritional deficiency.

I'm still curious at this stage what would happen if you supplement zinc.


Funny you say that - I just finished a one week regimen with 60 mg zinc, 10 mg manganese (another copper antagonist) and a B vitamin complex, and then four days of only zinc. The effects were somewhat devastating. I became incredibly tired, lost all appetite, hade a constant dizziness and feeling of being spaced out, brain fog, tinnitus and I became noticeably emotionally unstable. I also developed knee joint pain.

After stopping the regimen I actually felt better after a day or so than I did when I started it, but this returned to baseline after two days.

I have no idea what conclusions to draw from this.


I think you're narrowing the possibilities considerably. :)

The blood test results should be very interesting.

In the absence of those test results, what happens when you go the other way?(supplement copper + calcium)
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#1429 stablemind

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:06 PM

Even after subjecting my body to alcohol, sleep deprivation and crazy sleep phase advances/delay (sleeping at 4, waking up at 8), Uridine has kept my mood solid as a rock even though I'm slightly sick. This combo really packs a punch. I can't wait my circadian rhythm to return to normal and my sleep pattern to readjust since I know I'll feel even better. I wont be doing anything reckless anytime soon though, I just wanted to see how far I can take the combo. This combo is the best thing I've tried for mood yet and the closest to normal I've ever felt. I haven't tried the GPC/CDP choline yet, and my fish oil's EPA:DHA ratio is off (2:1 instead of 1:2), so there's still a lot of testing to be done.I may be able to ditch the bright light in the future, and I've already dropped NAC but we'll see.
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#1430 Chadwick

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:07 PM


Actually, you'd be surprised how often liver (and related area) issues are fingered in neurological disorders. :)

http://en.m.wikipedi...Cholecystokinin

Also, being that the liver gets 'first dibs' on extracting nutrients from food, the knock-on effect can lead to all sorts of issues stemming from nutritional deficiency.

I'm still curious at this stage what would happen if you supplement zinc.


Funny you say that - I just finished a one week regimen with 60 mg zinc, 10 mg manganese (another copper antagonist) and a B vitamin complex, and then four days of only zinc. The effects were somewhat devastating. I became incredibly tired, lost all appetite, hade a constant dizziness and feeling of being spaced out, brain fog, tinnitus and I became noticeably emotionally unstable. I also developed knee joint pain.

After stopping the regimen I actually felt better after a day or so than I did when I started it, but this returned to baseline after two days.

I have no idea what conclusions to draw from this.


I think you're narrowing the possibilities considerably. :)

The blood test results should be very interesting.

In the absence of those test results, what happens when you go the other way?(supplement copper + calcium)


I just hope I haven't been messing too much with my future blood test results by using copper antagonists, haha!

Anyhow: a few days after my zinc/manganese experiment, uridine is working for me again. It feels amazing - it really brings out the very best in me. Wow.

Could the minerals play a role in the effectiveness of uridine? It would be interesting to see if a uridine non-reponder could become a responder by using zinc and manganese as I did (and maybe also molybdenum, another copper antagonist). The plot thickens...

Edited by Chadwick, 19 September 2012 - 10:23 PM.

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#1431 MrHappy

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:02 PM



Actually, you'd be surprised how often liver (and related area) issues are fingered in neurological disorders. :)

http://en.m.wikipedi...Cholecystokinin

Also, being that the liver gets 'first dibs' on extracting nutrients from food, the knock-on effect can lead to all sorts of issues stemming from nutritional deficiency.

I'm still curious at this stage what would happen if you supplement zinc.


Funny you say that - I just finished a one week regimen with 60 mg zinc, 10 mg manganese (another copper antagonist) and a B vitamin complex, and then four days of only zinc. The effects were somewhat devastating. I became incredibly tired, lost all appetite, hade a constant dizziness and feeling of being spaced out, brain fog, tinnitus and I became noticeably emotionally unstable. I also developed knee joint pain.

After stopping the regimen I actually felt better after a day or so than I did when I started it, but this returned to baseline after two days.

I have no idea what conclusions to draw from this.


I think you're narrowing the possibilities considerably. :)

The blood test results should be very interesting.

In the absence of those test results, what happens when you go the other way?(supplement copper + calcium)


I just hope I haven't been messing too much with my future blood test results by using copper antagonists, haha!

Anyhow: a few days after my zinc/manganese experiment, uridine is working for me again. It feels amazing - it really brings out the very best in me. Wow.

Could the minerals play a role in the effectiveness of uridine? It would be interesting to see if a uridine non-reponder could become a responder by using zinc and manganese as I did (and maybe also molybdenum, another copper antagonist). The plot thickens...


Zinc is required for dopamine production and for B vitamin effectiveness. Normally, a good multi-B includes zinc. Perhaps you have a higher requirement for zinc that gets exhausted under this protocol? I'd still be looking at liver issues.

Maybe your dizziness was from the manganese?

I'd still be getting the bloodwork done so you know where you are at conclusively. :)
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#1432 Chadwick

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:30 AM



Actually, you'd be surprised how often liver (and related area) issues are fingered in neurological disorders. :)

http://en.m.wikipedi...Cholecystokinin

Also, being that the liver gets 'first dibs' on extracting nutrients from food, the knock-on effect can lead to all sorts of issues stemming from nutritional deficiency.

I'm still curious at this stage what would happen if you supplement zinc.


Funny you say that - I just finished a one week regimen with 60 mg zinc, 10 mg manganese (another copper antagonist) and a B vitamin complex, and then four days of only zinc. The effects were somewhat devastating. I became incredibly tired, lost all appetite, hade a constant dizziness and feeling of being spaced out, brain fog, tinnitus and I became noticeably emotionally unstable. I also developed knee joint pain.

After stopping the regimen I actually felt better after a day or so than I did when I started it, but this returned to baseline after two days.

I have no idea what conclusions to draw from this.


I think you're narrowing the possibilities considerably. :)

The blood test results should be very interesting.

In the absence of those test results, what happens when you go the other way?(supplement copper + calcium)


I just hope I haven't been messing too much with my future blood test results by using copper antagonists, haha!

Anyhow: a few days after my zinc/manganese experiment, uridine is working for me again. It feels amazing - it really brings out the very best in me. Wow.

Could the minerals play a role in the effectiveness of uridine? It would be interesting to see if a uridine non-reponder could become a responder by using zinc and manganese as I did (and maybe also molybdenum, another copper antagonist). The plot thickens...


Zinc is required for dopamine production and for B vitamin effectiveness. Normally, a good multi-B includes zinc. Perhaps you have a higher requirement for zinc that gets exhausted under this protocol? I'd still be looking at liver issues.

Maybe your dizziness was from the manganese?

I'd still be getting the bloodwork done so you know where you are at conclusively. :)


I used a multi with 15 mg zinc when my uridine regimen stopped working last time. The dizziness this time lasted about 12 hours after the intake of my recent zinc/manganese regimen, and this pattern continued while I was only using zinc. I'm tempted to speculate, but I believe you're right about bloodwork - conclusions are best drawn from facts, in this case test results. :)
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#1433 zrbarnes

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:36 AM

Supplementing with more than 15mg of zinc always causes nausea to the point of vomiting for me. 15mg causes some lightheadedness and nausea when taken on a mostly empty stomach.

I need to revisit this issue.

Edited by zrbarnes, 20 September 2012 - 12:38 AM.

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#1434 survivalmachine

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:12 PM

I am brand new to nootropics but after finding this thread I have decided to supplement with sublingual UMP + 15g canned cod liver in oil + 4 raw egg yolks + B complex per day. I have had awful brain fog all year and am finding it very difficult to function in my job and work so I am desperate. I also have ADD symptoms and a lot of anxiety/depression issues. I really hope that this combo improves my brain health! I will report back either way.

I was on 20mg Lexapro for almost 6 years and stopped Dec 2011. I also have some addictive behaviors although I don't use substances. I hope that I can improve m serotonin and dopamine sensitivity.

today is day 1!

I have a question though: do I need to make sure the UMP dissolves completely i.e. is it bad if I accidentally swallow some of it?

Edited by survivalmachine, 20 September 2012 - 05:37 PM.

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#1435 hephaestus

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:36 PM

I am brand new to nootropics but after finding this thread I have decided to supplement with sublingual UMP + 15g canned cod liver in oil + 4 raw egg yolks + B complex per day. I have had awful brain fog all year and am finding it very difficult to function in my job and work so I am desperate. I also have ADD symptoms and a lot of anxiety/depression issues. I really hope that this combo improves my brain health! I will report back either way.

I was on 20mg Lexapro for almost 6 years and stopped Dec 2011. I also have some addictive behaviors although I don't use substances. I hope that I can improve m serotonin and dopamine sensitivity.

today is day 1!

I have a question though: do I need to make sure the UMP dissolves completely i.e. is it bad if I accidentally swallow some of it?


No, it just won't be absorbed as well.
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#1436 Spectre

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:56 AM

Just ordered some uridine (in the triacetyl form), I'll report on its effects after giving it a trial run, I've been looking for something to boost overall long-term brain function and uridine has stood out to me.
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#1437 stablemind

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 02:35 AM

This combo has been a godsend so far. Thanks MRHAPPY. I've administered this drug for my parents and aunt over the past few days. The next morning, my aunt stopped talking to herself. Everyone noticed this which is a miracle since she has been talking herself everyday for years waking people up in the middle of the night. I noticed that my mom stopped yelling at every tiny thing that agitated her which is also another miracle, since she has had anger outbursts every single day for as long as I can remember. Her temper drastically fell on the second day as well.

As for me, I've been doing much better after my circadian rhythm fixed itself. No OCD thoughts, no anxiety, just calmness. I'm taking 1000mg DHA 400 EPA /day with ADAM multi, and 400 IU vitamin E, as well as 250-300mg sublingual uridine monophosphate. I'll be starting the Alpha GPC after I test the different dosage levels of uridine and fish oil. My memory still has issues although this has definitely helped it but I'm not complaining. Mood for sure is 10000x more important than memory imo anyways. I'll keep updating this thread.
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#1438 MrHappy

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 06:39 AM

This combo has been a godsend so far. Thanks MRHAPPY. I've administered this drug for my parents and aunt over the past few days. The next morning, my aunt stopped talking to herself. Everyone noticed this which is a miracle since she has been talking herself everyday for years waking people up in the middle of the night. I noticed that my mom stopped yelling at every tiny thing that agitated her which is also another miracle, since she has had anger outbursts every single day for as long as I can remember. Her temper drastically fell on the second day as well.

As for me, I've been doing much better after my circadian rhythm fixed itself. No OCD thoughts, no anxiety, just calmness. I'm taking 1000mg DHA 400 EPA /day with ADAM multi, and 400 IU vitamin E, as well as 250-300mg sublingual uridine monophosphate. I'll be starting the Alpha GPC after I test the different dosage levels of uridine and fish oil. My memory still has issues although this has definitely helped it but I'm not complaining. Mood for sure is 10000x more important than memory imo anyways. I'll keep updating this thread.

You're very welcome. :)
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#1439 mpe

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 06:50 AM

Mr Happy,

Have you tried c60oo yet? I am wondering how it might combine with your Uridine

Edited by mpe, 22 September 2012 - 06:51 AM.

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#1440 MrHappy

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 02:01 AM

Mr Happy,

Have you tried c60oo yet? I am wondering how it might combine with your Uridine


Not yet. :)

Besides, the real champion of uridine is Wurtman, et al. I'm just the messenger.. and happy guinea pig.
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