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GPC (choline), Uridine, DHA

choline uridine dha omega-3 epa ump tau b vitamins

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#2821 Mastermynd

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 05:23 PM

1) Is phosphatidylcholine not considered a "real" choline source? Why is it never brought up even though it seems to avoid lots of the side effects of GPC/CDP? I have phosphatidylcholine, am  I missing out somehow? 

 

2) how important is vitamin E?

 

3) is a typical multivitamin (like thorne basic nutrients) providing enough vitamin B?

 

4) anyone else adding in phosphatidylserine to their regimine? Seems like fits the overall theme of brain nutrients, and helps with sleep/cortisol

 

5) Isn't CDP choline in itself a uridine source? I've never heard this explained well...why do we need both?

 

Thanks! Just started this stack a few days ago and I am definitely noticing a nice little boost.

 

I actually have all of the exact same questions as you. Anyone know these 5 answers? Thanks!



#2822 Bloodimir

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 04:25 AM

My stack components sourcing:

 

1.Uridine (UMP), (Nootropicsdepot)

   http://nootropicsdep...um-salt-powder/

 

2. Alpha GPC, (Nootropicsdepot)

http://nootropicsdep...-gpc-50-powder/

 

3. Fish Oil, (Nature's Way), DHA 1000mg, EPA 400mg

https://uk.iherb.com...0-Softgels/5019

 

4. Vitamins, (Phoenixnutrition), has B2, B6, B12 in bioactive form and Folate instead of Folic acid.

https://www.phoenixn...ineral-capsules


Edited by Bloodimir, 02 May 2018 - 04:28 AM.


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#2823 purerealm

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 06:58 PM

Is there evidence that uridine takes up to several weeks to take effect? I haven't been able to find much literature on this.



#2824 Bloodimir

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 11:39 PM

Is there evidence that uridine takes up to several weeks to take effect? I haven't been able to find much literature on this.

Depends on personal obsevation, my friend! Its important to check your current state of contionsness and the one after treatment to see if there is a difference.

Unfortunatelly its the only quick method to see the difference. Anecdotal? Yes! But that is what we can operate with yet... I wish your attention to be sharp enough to see if there is a difference to make a right decision. Cheers bro!



#2825 Andersen

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 09:07 PM

Hello I’m looking into this stack and planning to order everything soon. I have a couple questions as I am confused about a few things. I’m looking to do this stack with one meal a day to stimulate nuerogenisis and hopefully help with anhedonia and major depression. I’m a little confused about the 500iu of vitamin e and where to find it. Is this necessary or would a multivitamin with a small amount of it be okay? Also do I need the multivitamin if my diet is pretty good? I was told that triacetyluridine is processed better in the liver so I was considering using that with alpha gpc. How does the dosage of this differ from UMP?

#2826 calm--

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 04:26 AM

Hello I’m looking into this stack and planning to order everything soon. I have a couple questions as I am confused about a few things. I’m looking to do this stack with one meal a day to stimulate nuerogenisis and hopefully help with anhedonia and major depression. I’m a little confused about the 500iu of vitamin e and where to find it. Is this necessary or would a multivitamin with a small amount of it be okay? Also do I need the multivitamin if my diet is pretty good? I was told that triacetyluridine is processed better in the liver so I was considering using that with alpha gpc. How does the dosage of this differ from UMP?

 

I believe he recommends a vitamin e on top of the multivitamin, and multivitamin is still necessary regardless of diet. Someone on reddit asked a similar question : https://www.reddit.c...ktwo_questions/

 

It did help with my anhedonia and depression. Higher epa than dha works better for me in terms of mood. I did a couple trial in the past, but have to stop because after a while I experienced jittery, irritability and insomnia. I'm planning to try it again.


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#2827 Andersen

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 06:18 PM

I believe he recommends a vitamin e on top of the multivitamin, and multivitamin is still necessary regardless of diet. Someone on reddit asked a similar question : https://www.reddit.c...ktwo_questions/

 

It did help with my anhedonia and depression. Higher epa than dha works better for me in terms of mood. I did a couple trial in the past, but have to stop because after a while I experienced jittery, irritability and insomnia. I'm planning to try it again.

https://aor.ca/products/multi-basics-3 This is the multi i am looking at using.. do you know of a better one to use?

 

as for extra vitamin e would extra mixed tocopherols like jarrows toco sorb or liquid vitamin e 400 iu be best?

 

How much did it help with anhedonia / depression? im looking at doing this stack with one meal a day to increase nuerogenesis. Would i just take my uridine in the evening instead? he reccomends "150-250mg UMP, orally, twice per day" so would i just start with 150 once with my meal and then work up from there? Also do you know anything about the risk of fatty liver with uridine?



#2828 calm--

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 07:11 PM

I am no expert, so i can't answer some of your questions, sorry.

 

I do read a couple times that the multi you mentioned is good. Aor ortho core and life extension two per day were also mentioned a couple times as good multis.

 

The effects on anhedonia and depression are very noticeable. I enjoyed watching movie and a walk in the forest so much more. Sunset became beautiful. The warm of sunlight feels nice. Wind blowing on my face feels nice. Reduced stress, anxiety, improved cognitive functions as well. I felt the effects from day 1. It's very good and worth a try. I would have continue taking it if I didn't experience the negative side effects.

 

I took 250mg ump once a day with breakfast. Mostly I experimented with the fish oil dosage, that's when I found out that higher epa than dha works better for me in terms of mood.

 

I think you'll find the right dosage with a little bit of experiments. Like mr happy said on the first page, too little uridine and you probably won't feel much, too much uridine and you will probably feel something is off.



#2829 Andersen

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 12:41 AM

I am no expert, so i can't answer some of your questions, sorry.

 

I do read a couple times that the multi you mentioned is good. Aor ortho core and life extension two per day were also mentioned a couple times as good multis.

 

The effects on anhedonia and depression are very noticeable. I enjoyed watching movie and a walk in the forest so much more. Sunset became beautiful. The warm of sunlight feels nice. Wind blowing on my face feels nice. Reduced stress, anxiety, improved cognitive functions as well. I felt the effects from day 1. It's very good and worth a try. I would have continue taking it if I didn't experience the negative side effects.

 

I took 250mg ump once a day with breakfast. Mostly I experimented with the fish oil dosage, that's when I found out that higher epa than dha works better for me in terms of mood.

 

I think you'll find the right dosage with a little bit of experiments. Like mr happy said on the first page, too little uridine and you probably won't feel much, too much uridine and you will probably feel something is off.

did you use an extra source of vitamin e aside form multi? if so what type was it? Thanks for your responses! Do you still struggle with anhedonia / depression? What is your current stack/or has helped you?



#2830 calm--

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 02:00 AM

did you use an extra source of vitamin e aside form multi? if so what type was it? Thanks for your responses! Do you still struggle with anhedonia / depression? What is your current stack/or has helped you?

 

I didn't use vitamin e. Again, i don't have enough knowledge to suggest whether one should or should not take vitamin e with this stack. It's just that i read somewhere someone raised a concern about taking this dose of vitamin e. I can't remember what the concern is.

 

No problem, happy to helps. I understand how debilitating anhedonia and depression is. I still have it, but i found that omega-3 helps tremendously. It make me more excited, motivated, more confident and less anxiety. When I tried to stop, i'm back to brain fog, anhedonia and depression (i'm working with a doctor right now and is diagnosed with adrenal fatigue, leaky gut, gluten sensitivity, high oxalate, insulin resistance, low neurotransmitters, etc). I've been taking fish oil for about a year.

 

Right now i'm getting my omega-3 from fish oil supplements and flax seed. I'm getting about 900 dha 2000 epa from them everyday. Someone mentioned in this forum that you need about 1g epa higher than dha for depression. I like the epa for the mood boost, and dha for it's cognitive boost.

There are some concerns about fish oil supplements, and my doc has suggested switching to plant-based oils, so i'm thinking of doing that.

 

I'm also taking 100 mg Phosphatidylserine which greatly helps with cognitive functions, and 0.1mg bpc-157 which probably also helps with brain fog and anhedonia.

 

I've also tried a couple things in the past which helps with anhedonia/depression, but have to stop because of negative side-effects or it stop working : ashwagandha, piracetam, aniracetam, ciltep, turmeric, creatine, idebenone, magnesium threonate, Make sure you're okay taking them though. I notice my adrenal fatigue symptoms got worst after months of racetam and ciltep. I also notice some mood boost the first time I'm taking AOR Ortho Core, but I think that's because I'm deficient in nutrients. Now that I got good diet, I don't seem to need it anymore.

 

Exercise, meditation, cold shower, being outdoor, earthing, cognitive behavioral therapy are also great. I have to stop hard exercise and cold shower for now because of adrenal fatigue. Oh and good diet! Lot of healthy stuffs like veggies, nuts, seeds, liver, etc, and avoiding crappy foods.


Edited by calm--, 20 July 2018 - 02:02 AM.


#2831 Andersen

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 05:39 PM

I didn't use vitamin e. Again, i don't have enough knowledge to suggest whether one should or should not take vitamin e with this stack. It's just that i read somewhere someone raised a concern about taking this dose of vitamin e. I can't remember what the concern is.

No problem, happy to helps. I understand how debilitating anhedonia and depression is. I still have it, but i found that omega-3 helps tremendously. It make me more excited, motivated, more confident and less anxiety. When I tried to stop, i'm back to brain fog, anhedonia and depression (i'm working with a doctor right now and is diagnosed with adrenal fatigue, leaky gut, gluten sensitivity, high oxalate, insulin resistance, low neurotransmitters, etc). I've been taking fish oil for about a year.

Right now i'm getting my omega-3 from fish oil supplements and flax seed. I'm getting about 900 dha 2000 epa from them everyday. Someone mentioned in this forum that you need about 1g epa higher than dha for depression. I like the epa for the mood boost, and dha for it's cognitive boost.
There are some concerns about fish oil supplements, and my doc has suggested switching to plant-based oils, so i'm thinking of doing that.

I'm also taking 100 mg Phosphatidylserine which greatly helps with cognitive functions, and 0.1mg bpc-157 which probably also helps with brain fog and anhedonia.

I've also tried a couple things in the past which helps with anhedonia/depression, but have to stop because of negative side-effects or it stop working : ashwagandha, piracetam, aniracetam, ciltep, turmeric, creatine, idebenone, magnesium threonate, Make sure you're okay taking them though. I notice my adrenal fatigue symptoms got worst after months of racetam and ciltep. I also notice some mood boost the first time I'm taking AOR Ortho Core, but I think that's because I'm deficient in nutrients. Now that I got good diet, I don't seem to need it anymore.

Exercise, meditation, cold shower, being outdoor, earthing, cognitive behavioral therapy are also great. I have to stop hard exercise and cold shower for now because of adrenal fatigue. Oh and good diet! Lot of healthy stuffs like veggies, nuts, seeds, liver, etc, and avoiding crappy foods.


Are you sure u didn’t mix up the dha and epa? The mr happy stack calls for higher dha

#2832 calm--

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 01:43 AM

From what I can understand, the ratio of the dha and epa doesn't matter. You do need the dha, i think at least 500 or 700 dha. The epa can be higher if you want. He explained it in that reddit thread.



#2833 Andersen

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Posted 21 July 2018 - 11:10 PM

The references section on that page linked to the research papers. Anyone have full text access?

If taking uridine sublingually do you still reccomend 150mg under the tongue twice a day as you mentioned it was 7-10x stronger than an oral dose. is it okay if i start with 300mg at once and work up from there because i wanted to take this stack with one meal a day.


From what I can understand, the ratio of the dha and epa doesn't matter. You do need the dha, i think at least 500 or 700 dha. The epa can be higher if you want. He explained it in that reddit thread.

If taking uridine sublingually should i still take 150mg under the tongue twice a day as its  mentioned it was 7-10x stronger than an oral dose. is it okay if i start with 300mg at once and work up from there because i wanted to take this stack with one meal a day.


Depends on personal obsevation, my friend! Its important to check your current state of contionsness and the one after treatment to see if there is a difference.

Unfortunatelly its the only quick method to see the difference. Anecdotal? Yes! But that is what we can operate with yet... I wish your attention to be sharp enough to see if there is a difference to make a right decision. Cheers bro!

If taking uridine sublingually should  i still take 150mg under the tongue twice a day as it mentioned it was 7-10x stronger than an oral dose. is it okay if i start with 300mg at once and work up from there because i wanted to take this stack with one meal a day.


My stack components sourcing:

 

1.Uridine (UMP), (Nootropicsdepot)

   http://nootropicsdep...um-salt-powder/

 

2. Alpha GPC, (Nootropicsdepot)

http://nootropicsdep...-gpc-50-powder/

 

3. Fish Oil, (Nature's Way), DHA 1000mg, EPA 400mg

https://uk.iherb.com...0-Softgels/5019

 

4. Vitamins, (Phoenixnutrition), has B2, B6, B12 in bioactive form and Folate instead of Folic acid.

https://www.phoenixn...ineral-capsules

If taking uridine sublingually  should i still take 150mg under the tongue twice a day as itsmentioned it is 7-10x stronger than an oral dose. is it okay if i start with 300mg at once and work up from there because i wanted to take this stack with one meal a day.



#2834 gee

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Posted 22 July 2018 - 04:24 AM

If taking uridine sublingually do you still reccomend 150mg under the tongue twice a day as you mentioned it was 7-10x stronger than an oral dose. is it okay if i start with 300mg at once and work up from there because i wanted to take this stack with one meal a day.


If taking uridine sublingually should i still take 150mg under the tongue twice a day as its  mentioned it was 7-10x stronger than an oral dose. is it okay if i start with 300mg at once and work up from there because i wanted to take this stack with one meal a day.


If taking uridine sublingually should  i still take 150mg under the tongue twice a day as it mentioned it was 7-10x stronger than an oral dose. is it okay if i start with 300mg at once and work up from there because i wanted to take this stack with one meal a day.


If taking uridine sublingually  should i still take 150mg under the tongue twice a day as itsmentioned it is 7-10x stronger than an oral dose. is it okay if i start with 300mg at once and work up from there because i wanted to take this stack with one meal a day.

 

UMP, the one you take under the tongue. is water soluble, you don't need to take it with a meal. So whether you take one meal or ten makes no difference for the number of times you can take UMP sublingually.



#2835 Heyguy

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 09:10 PM

Are eggs an enough substitute for cdp choline?
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#2836 ABCD

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 03:08 AM

Quoting first post from MrHappy -
After 2 weeks:
Slowly introduce choline - start with 50mg of eg.alpha-GPC or CDP-choline and ramp it up to around 300mg.
If you experience depressive symptoms from choline, discontinue choline and consider ALCAR as an alternative.

Interesting, I forgot about the CDP-choline doses, I originally read the thread more than a year before I tried the combo. I know that common CDP-choline doses are around 250-500mg but after adding UMP I am getting better mood boost with 1000mg, how every one else is dosing?

I am spacing choline through the day, its not a big boost anymore, but I am also using it for the long term health benefits. I am wondering if 1000mg is too much though?

 

What was your Uridine dosage for 1000mg cdp?



#2837 alexis3

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 11:40 AM

New member here.

 

Ok, so I read though all 95 pages (took about 2 days). Very interesting, however, I think there is still an elephant in the room that no one has addressed yet, and that is 'Why'.

 

Why do some people 'Need' to take this stack to feel normal, while others do not (hence they don't benefit from the stack).

 

There is a lot of talk about methylation here, but is it possible that in the same way how some people process (or methylate) folate slower or quicker than others, perhaps some people process uridine slower or quicker than others? Or maybe some other part of the acetylcholine process chain is impaired?

 

It's seems strange to me, that some people would benefit so much from uridine, despite how little of it occurs naturally, yet may never achieve the same results by changing which vitamins/minerals they are taking (or not taking). In other words, people who benefit from this stack, and report that they feel 'normal', might only get such a benefit with the thanks of uridine. No other vitamin or mineral may ever make any difference or help them feel normal. This is a really curious question...

 

Personally, I haven't tried the stack yet, I look forward to trying it very soon. I don't want to get too excited, but I have a feeling I may be one of the people who will benefit from it. I say this because I have severe anhedonia, virtually everyday, and I've had it for the past 15 years or so. In the past 15 years, there have only ever been 3 days where I woke up feeling extremely good (and 'normal'). Funny thing is, I described it as a 'holiday feeling', which are the exact same words other users in this forum used when describing how they felt on this stack! On each those 3 days when I felt great, I wrote down on a piece of paper what I ate the previous day. When I was cleaning my bedroom, I stumbled across all 3 of those papers, and compared them side-by-side. All 3 of them had 'fish' written. This is a big coincidence, because I don't eat fish that much as I don't really like fish (I eat it maybe 1 to 2 times per fortnight). 2 of the papers had 'peanut butter' written (I also don't eat peanut butter that often, maybe 1-2 times per week assuming I have it available). 1 of them had 'liver pate' (if I have it available I eat it about 3 times a week, however most of the time I don't have this available), and another one had 'egg with mustard' (which sounds like something I would eat for breakfast, but I might only have eggs for breakfast once or twice a week). My only regret was that I didn't write more details and also that I discarded these papers, so I can't remember what else was written on them. But I do remember that those 4 foods stood out to me.

 

I mentioned before that no other vitamin or mineral may be able to achieve this result, because, at least according to my experience (assuming I'm right), in the past 15 years, I've only felt good on those 3 days! In other words, my cure to help me feel normal was presented only on those 3 occasions. So all the times I ate healthy, all the times I didn't eat healthy, all the times I ate lots of leafy greens, and the times I didn't, and the times I took multivitamins, etc.. had no effect at all. The only thing that worked was fish, peanut butter, liver, eggs with mustard. I have tried to reproduce that feeling by eating those same foods without success however. I have also tried many different omega 3 supplements, and choline supplements (phosphatidylcholine and Alpha-GPC) on separate occasions without any noticeable difference. So maybe the secret nutrient that I needed was uridine (in combination with the other nutrients: DHA and choline), but then I can't help but wonder, where was uridine in those 4 foods that I mentioned? FYI: I don't drink alcohol/beer.

 

Very curious...



#2838 Chadwick

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 07:17 PM

Out of curiosity - did you eat spinach during any of those days?

#2839 alexis3

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 09:30 PM

Out of curiosity - did you eat spinach during any of those days?

 

I don't remember seeing spinach on any of the papers. It also doesn't sound like something I would normally eat with fish. Usually with fish I either have rice or potatoes with steamed veg, and I rarely eat spinach for breakfast and lunch. The 4 foods that I mentioned were really the only unusual foods on the papers that stood out. Other foods that may have been there could be bread, rice, potatoes, general veg, milk, tea, biscuits, etc.

 

EDIT: Not sure if this matters, but I eat Vegemite on toast almost every day. Vegemite contains yeast and has B-vitamins. Although, the amount that I use is tiny, maybe half a teaspoon. However, it's also important to point out that, if I wrote peanut butter, liver pate, and egg, then it sounds like I might have skipped Vegemite on those days. I'm pretty certain that the only food that appeared consistently was fish and peanut butter (hence why I easily remembered those things).


Edited by alexis3, 05 June 2020 - 09:54 PM.


#2840 Chadwick

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 10:01 PM

I don't remember seeing spinach on any of the papers. It also doesn't sound like something I would normally eat with fish. Usually with fish I either have rice or potatoes with steamed veg, and I rarely eat spinach for breakfast and lunch. The 4 foods that I mentioned were really the only unusual foods on the papers that stood out. Other foods that may have been there could be bread, rice, potatoes, general veg, milk, tea, biscuits, etc.

Okay. The reason I'm asking is that I had basically the same experience that you had, with anhedonia for many years. A few days during those years I felt normal. I realized I could get the feeling of normality by eating large amounts of spinach, which seemed a bit strange at the time. After some research I found out that uncooked spinach contains a decent amount of folate. I started taking methylfolate (5-MTHF), at first doses of 0.8 mg per day and nowadays 10 mg per day. It has completely changed my life. I've used it for a few years and the effects haven't decreased with time.



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#2841 alexis3

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Posted 05 June 2020 - 10:12 PM

Okay. The reason I'm asking is that I had basically the same experience that you had, with anhedonia for many years. A few days during those years I felt normal. I realized I could get the feeling of normality by eating large amounts of spinach, which seemed a bit strange at the time. After some research I found out that uncooked spinach contains a decent amount of folate. I started taking methylfolate (5-MTHF), at first doses of 0.8 mg per day and nowadays 10 mg per day. It has completely changed my life. I've used it for a few years and the effects haven't decreased with time.

 

That's interesting. I actually did stumble across research about MTHFR a while back, and wondered if it could be that, however, in my case, eating lots of raw spinach did not have any effect. Methylfolate supplements on the other hand made things worse for me (insomnia and irritable). Other B vitamins also had no noticeable effect. Last time I took 500mcg of methylfolate combined with other B's made the anhedonia and fatigue worse :sad:

 

EDIT: I might also just quickly mention that normally I drink quite a lot of black tea. Caffeine seems to block the effect of uridine. It's possible (but I don't know for sure) that perhaps I drank less tea on those 3 days.


Edited by alexis3, 05 June 2020 - 10:41 PM.






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