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GPC (choline), Uridine, DHA

choline uridine dha omega-3 epa ump tau b vitamins

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#2791 existence

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 11:10 PM

 

 

Who SHOULDN'T take uridine:
Over-methylators. If you do not respond well to Vitamin B, or SAMe, you are unlikely to enjoy any benefits from uridine supplementation.

 

If taking this resulted in over-stimulation and a worsening of my brain fog by the third day, does that imply over-methylation?



#2792 Heinsbeans

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 04:42 AM

I have the following mental health issues:

  • depression 
  • anxiety
  • lack of ambition/motivation (e.g. I'm basically unemployed and don't have a drivers license so I should be learning to drive and looking for a job but I can't get myself to do them)
  • constant brain fog and lack of mental clarity 
  • easily running out of mental endurance/energy
  • lack of attentiveness and alertness
  • Terrible memory retireval and retention (e.g. I can't even use the cash register at work because I can't do mental math and memorize cost of drink orders)
  • difficulty with paying attention to detail, decision making, learning new things, responding/reacting quickly
  • dependence on coffee to increase my overall cognitive function(alertness/attentiveness, mental energy, motivation, reaction speed, decision making and working memory) to a functional level to be able to work and just to get by as a waiter. )

After seeing a doctor about it, I was put on 10mg Lexapro. And recently, I saw a psychiatrist and she switched me to 60mg Cymbalta. So far, cymbalta is helping a little bit but no antidepressant has helped as much as 'racetam has. Before seeing a doctor, I used to self-medicate with 750mg Aniracetam with Coffee. When I used to take Aniracetam, I felt very anxiolytic, hyperfocused and it became so much eaiser to learn, remember things and solve problems. I even became so motivated while on Aniracetam that I started to learn to drive. But ever since I've started taking antidepressants, I became demotivated again. My doctors and psychiatrists don't recommend me to take nootropics because they say that there's lack of evidence behind them. But nootropics are the only substances that has helped me so far, I don't know what to do.

 

I'm considering trying Uridine since I've heard a lot of good stuff about it. But I've found this after searching for "Uridine" in reddit: https://www.reddit.c...oliferation_of/

 

Does this mean that Uridine aggravates cancer cells if you already have it? Is it safe to take uridine if you don't have cancer?

 

Here's what I'm currently taking:

  • Cymbalta 60mg
  • Bulletproof Coffee (Black Coffee + Brain Octane + Butter)
  • 2g Fish oil
  • Phosphatidylserine 100mg
  • ALCAR 500mg
  • Creatine 3g
  • CDP choline 250mg / Alpha GPC 300mg
  • Swanson Ultra Activated B-complex High Bioavailability / Jarrow Formulas B-Right
  • Magnesium L-threonate
  • Longvida Curcumin (in the afternoon to avoid serotonin syndrome from Cymbalta that I take in the morning)

Edited by Heinsbeans, 12 November 2015 - 05:42 AM.


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#2793 Incendies

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 10:58 PM

Can someone recommend a good fish oil?

 

I cant find one with a higher DHA to EPA ratio that I can use with this stack. Price is a non issue. 



#2794 calm--

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 12:36 AM

There are many. Jarrow MaxDHA, Now DHA-500, Now DHA-250, Nordic Prenatal DHA.



#2795 vaarmen

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 01:32 AM

In general though, don't obsess too much about the DHA / EPA ratio. Just aim for a total DHA amount. EPA is not bad for you - it's good !

 


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#2796 Heinsbeans

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 02:40 PM

How important is vitamin E? Which one do you recommend? I'm thinking of purchasing Now Foods Gamma E-complex Advanced since it's supposed to have natural forms of 8 different vitamin E's. For B-complex I'm using the latest Jarrow Formulas B-right(which contains only Quatrefolic not folic acid) and I sometimes use Swanson Ultra Activated B-complex High bioavailability.

 

Here's what my Mr Happy stack looks like:

  • Jarrow Formulas Uridine Monophosphate 250mg x2
  • Jarrow Formulas Alpha GPC 300mg
  • Jarrow Formulas B-Right / Swanson Ultra Activated B-complex High Bioavailability
  • Blackmores Omega Daily Fish oil x3 
  • (contemplating) Now Foods Gamma E-complex Advanced

I've also ordered 24 bottles of Souvenaid to see if it's any better than Mr Happy stack. I'll let you guys know what I find out.



#2797 pbandy1

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 08:55 PM

How important is vitamin E? Which one do you recommend? I'm thinking of purchasing Now Foods Gamma E-complex Advanced since it's supposed to have natural forms of 8 different vitamin E's. For B-complex I'm using the latest Jarrow Formulas B-right(which contains only Quatrefolic not folic acid) and I sometimes use Swanson Ultra Activated B-complex High bioavailability.

 

Here's what my Mr Happy stack looks like:

  • Jarrow Formulas Uridine Monophosphate 250mg x2
  • Jarrow Formulas Alpha GPC 300mg
  • Jarrow Formulas B-Right / Swanson Ultra Activated B-complex High Bioavailability
  • Blackmores Omega Daily Fish oil x3 
  • (contemplating) Now Foods Gamma E-complex Advanced

I've also ordered 24 bottles of Souvenaid to see if it's any better than Mr Happy stack. I'll let you guys know what I find out.

IMO it is important only to the point if one is deficient in it. I log my food in cron-o-meter and vitamin E often comes up deficient. Big fan of Life Extension Vitamin E tocopherols/tocotrienols.



#2798 Heinsbeans

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Posted 19 December 2015 - 05:48 AM

Tried Souvenaid this morning in empty stomach. It worked just as well as the 250mg x2 Uridine Monophosphate from Jarrow Formulas. The strawberry flavor tasted nice and I like the convenience of not having to worry about how much DHA/EPA, choline, vitamin E, B6, B9 and B12 I need to take because it's already included. The only con is that it's expensive at $4 a bottle.

 

Also, whenever I drink even a small cup of coffee after supplementing with Uridine, I feel over-stimulated and it doesn't feel good. Does anyone know why? I still want to be able to enjoy my cup of joe in the morning so I'm considering taking Uridine at night time.


Edited by Heinsbeans, 19 December 2015 - 05:50 AM.


#2799 Heinsbeans

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 08:29 AM

Just found out that if I wait 3 - 4 hours after taking Uridine, I can still drink coffee and enjoy its effects without feeling over-stimulated and uncomfortable. Also, I'll post Souvenaid's ingredients for those who are curious what's inside here: http://imgur.com/a/eK8Hk


Edited by Heinsbeans, 20 December 2015 - 08:32 AM.


#2800 amanton

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 09:27 PM

not sure if this has been already discussed in this thread... 

 

1. has anyone tried this stack with aniracetam. OK or NOK?

2. what could be the reason if I get calf cramps. Does this stack require more Mg supplementation? I already take 400-800mg Mg daily.

 

 

 

 


Edited by amanton, 14 January 2016 - 09:38 PM.


#2801 Wingless

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 10:03 PM

What if the Alpha GPC is replaced with CDP-choline? Would this stack have similar effects? To my knowledge CDP choline is a prodrug for uridine, so I'm curious.



#2802 message

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 04:42 AM

Any updates on this?

I don't have any psych conditions - will this stack improve baseline function w/or long term adverse effects?

#2803 Peter Doubt

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 07:25 PM

I'm taking 800mg of Sam E in the am and wonder if it's safe to do this stack also? Anyone have any advice? Thanks.

#2804 Zakariah

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Posted 30 April 2016 - 04:09 PM

First off, Mr. Happy, thanks so much for making this beautiful thread and sticking to it for this long.

 

In the past week and a half I read through 1/4 of the thread (up to page 22).. I wanted to read it all but it's like 90 pages long lol.

 

 

Just a heads up, I have been on TAU for 13 days now and I have began to feel pretty awesome effects.

 

I read a little bit back when you guys were talking about taking too much NGF, and I was curious why there can ever be too much? I ask this because currently I take:

 

Alcar

Noopept

Piracetam

Fish oil

TUA

Alpha-GPC

Siberian Ginseng

 

Vitamin E

Vitamin C

Vitamin B complex

 

(Noting that Noopept and TUA both ignite NGF)

 

And I just bought:

Lion's Mane

Na-R-ALA

PQQ

 

This means that I would be increasing NGF by: Lion's mane, Na-R-Ala, Noopept, and TUA.

 

Would you say that's too much?

 

Thanks! :D

 



#2805 Justchill

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 11:33 AM

Some quick questions:

 

Can you take the fish-oil at night and the uridine in the morning?

 

Will the uridine interfere with sleep if you take it before bedtime?


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#2806 sativa

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 10:24 PM

I came across this reddit post where the user brings up the possibility of uridine supplementation leading to an imbalance of nucleosides/nucleotides in vivo... What do you all think?

Uridine - my current research hasn't determined that uridine supplements would definitely cause a problem, but the balance of Uridine, Thymine, and other nucleosides/nucleotides in the body is very tightly controlled and might be better regulated through less direct health markers.

In healthy people with normal levels of nucleoside synthesis enzymes, a low level of Uridine is maintained in the brain and tightly regulated. I've seen studies showing increased cognitive performance and improvement with bipolar disorder with UMP supplementation, but my concern about supplemental Uridine is that I haven't seen enough discussion of the balance issues in longer term usage, like an expected downregulation of Uridine synthesis in response or potential for affecting cell lifecycle in the brain.

Below are some entries on the importance of balance in that system. I know it's considered a great supplement these days, and I agree it has potential. I've had great results without it, and I've also had an unrelated experience with an imbalance in my histamine system, which took a long time to fix.

My research on Uridine is still in progress, but it's still questionable enough to me that I'm not ready to add it to a long term plan.


And the links he/she included:

https://books.google...tration&f=false

https://books.google...balance&f=false

https://books.google...balance&f=false

Edited by sativa, 02 June 2016 - 10:38 PM.


#2807 sativa

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 10:31 PM

Some quick questions:

Can you take the fish-oil at night and the uridine in the morning?

Will the uridine interfere with sleep if you take it before bedtime?


I can take Uridine before going to sleep with no detrimental effects. In fact, I think uridines NMDA antagonsism and dopanine balancing effects would help (or possibly make it easier) to fall asleep!

I sometimes have uridine during the day when I think I could do with its properties.

I usually have my cod liver oil with breakfast (rice + olive oil + nutritional yeast). I prefer cod liver oil to standard fish oil for various reasons.

#2808 christianme

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 07:49 AM

This stack is king.  For some reason I find phosphatidlycholine synergizes ALOT better than ALPHA GPC.  Does anyone else feel this way. 

 



#2809 Ryu84

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 02:42 PM

Here is a study which questions the safety of uridine use as the results suggest that it may be carcinogenic.

Uridine homeostatic disorder leads to DNA damage and tumorigenesis

 

Highlights

• Uridine homeostatic disorder induced by uridine phosphorylase knockout leads to DNA damage and spontaneous tumorigenesis.

• Addition of uridine into culture medium causes uracil DNA damage and p53-mediated DNA damage response (DDR).

• Pharmacological use of uridine may be carcinogenic, and the far-reaching effects need to be considered.

 

Abstract

Uridine is a natural nucleoside precursor of uridine monophosphate in organisms and thus is considered to be safe and is used in a wide range of clinical settings. The far-reaching effects of pharmacological uridine have long been neglected. Here, we report that the homeostatic disorder of uridine is carcinogenic. Targeted disruption (−/−) of murine uridine phosphorylase (UPase) disrupted the homeostasis of uridine and increased spontaneous tumorigenesis by more than 3-fold. Multiple tumors (e.g., lymphoma, hepatoma and lung adenoma) occurred simultaneously in some UPase deficient mice, but not in wild-type mice raised under the same conditions. In the tissue from UPase −/− mice, the 2′-deoxyuridine,5′-triphosphate (dUTP) levels and uracil DNA were increased and p53 was activated with an increased phospho-Ser18 p53 level. Exposing cell lines (e.g., MCF-7, RKO, HCT-8 and NCI-H460) to uridine (10 or 30 µM) led to uracil DNA damage and p53 activation, which in turn triggered the DNA damage response. In these cells, phospho-ATM, phospho-CHK2, and phospho-γH2AX were increased by uridine. These data suggest that uridine homeostatic disorder leads to uracil DNA damage and that pharmacological uridine may be carcinogenic.

 

http://www.sciencedi...304383516000197

 

From the final paragraph:

 

...uridine is even used in healthy subjects for neurological studies. To achieve treatment efficacy, pharmacological concentrations of uridine in the plasma are usually higher than 50 μM, even up to 2–3 mM. This study demonstrated that uridine at 30 μM is genotoxic. Therefore, the pharmacological doses of uridine in clinical settings may be genotoxic and carcinogenic. The far-reaching detrimental effects (e.g., carcinogenesis) of the pharmacological use of uridine have to be considered, and the safety of uridine treatment, particularly in healthy subjects, has to be re-evaluated.

 

Notably this study used UPase knockout mice and no actual uridine was administered. Either way this is cause for concern. I know that Chrono had some reservations with regard to carcinogenicity, maybe these weren't so misfounded.

 

This is a pain for me as I have already ordered some tricetyluridine to try, maybe it is wise to hold off with this until there is some follow-up research.


Edited by Ryu84, 21 June 2016 - 02:43 PM.

  • Informative x 2
  • WellResearched x 1

#2810 christianme

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Posted 27 June 2016 - 10:45 PM

Does anyone know if it's contraindicated to take aspirin with uridine, being that it messes with the b- vitamins.  (I believe I read something akin to this a while ago, can't remember the exact details)



#2811 dwarflord

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 11:38 AM

This has been discussed earlier but it's getting a little dated. So I'm trying to find a seller of UMP that's either based in EU or ships to EU. I contacted Mr Happy's supplier (www.ksxc.cn) but didn't get a response - nor does PowderCity ship to my country. Right now I'm purchasing expensive TAU from iHerb that doesn't last long. Anyone?



#2812 fntms

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 06:07 PM

You could use shipito perhaps? they give you a US address and you are responsible for the shipping label...

#2813 Th1nk3r

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 06:55 PM

This has been discussed earlier but it's getting a little dated. So I'm trying to find a seller of UMP that's either based in EU or ships to EU. I contacted Mr Happy's supplier (www.ksxc.cn) but didn't get a response - nor does PowderCity ship to my country. Right now I'm purchasing expensive TAU from iHerb that doesn't last long. Anyone?

Im wondering same thing, does anyone know good places from where to order UMP to EU? Thx!



#2814 dwarflord

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 03:15 PM

I found this seller on eBay UK: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162025453297

 

International free shipping, too!



#2815 Natious

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 12:52 PM

I was looking at https://www.amazon.c...crb_top?ie=UTF8 for a B complex that has folate instead of folic acid, however B12 seems incredibly high. I live in France and this stuff can be bought off amazon, this seems to be the cheapest B complex with folate that I found so far, I think 1 tablet instead of 2 as instructed should still work since the values will be 100% RDA or higher. Folate will be the lowest at 100% RDA.

 

I am still confused about the DHA/EPA ratio. I haven't found a product where DHA is superior to EPA. Why is it so important that I get twice as much DHA as I do EPA?

 

EDIT: I found https://www.amazon.f...docosahexaenoic however 13 eur for 15 days worth is quite expensive. How good is flaxseed oil compared to DHA?


Edited by Natious, 04 August 2016 - 01:35 PM.


#2816 SnowFlake

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Posted 28 August 2016 - 09:45 AM

I had to come by and comment that this is one of the few stacks that has had significant effect on me and I sure hope this continues.
I have diagnosed ADHD and have been taking Vyvanse for it for almost a year now. The dextroamphetamine helps me in great ways to get through my daily life, but for some time now I have had some severe morning fatigue. 

I used to be able to get out of bed and fly out to work even though my focus wasn't the best. Now I've been feeling totally grumpy, slow and fatigued every morning no matter how long I've slept. I only get over the morning fatigue after administering my morning dose of the amphetamine. That's really the only negative side effect I've got from my ADHD medicine. 

So I've read this thread already quite a few years ago, but never tried the stack until now and I have to say that I regret I didn't. I'm currently on day 4 and every single morning has been pure bliss so far. I wake up feeling invigorated and have that really satisfying feeling which you get when you've slept well.
My general mood is through the roof. It's not "ecstatic", but I feel more compassionate, present, content, happy, cheerful - these adjectives could go on for ever.

First day I actually got severe brain fog and what I'd call general confusion when I started taking UMP, but this hasn't reoccurred ever since.
 

Some negatives I've experienced so far are this weird itchy skin (no rash though) and occasional extreme upper abdominal pain.
The occasional upper abdominal pain is located right on the diaphragm muscle and it's so severe I will have to lie on my back and just breathe slowly. The pain ends usually within 10 minutes and hasn't ever occurred more than once a day. These negatives could very well be produced by the coluracetam I'm taking and I will have to further investigate.

Currently taking:

250-300 mg UMP orally twice a day (from Powdercity)

3-5 mg methylfolate (B9)

1 mg methylcobalamin (B12)

B-Complex for other vitamin Bs

720 mg DHA (1080 mg EPA)

30-50 mg alpha-GPC (from Powdercity), slowly upping the dose.

10 mg Coluracetam (from Powdercity) 

 



#2817 SnowFlake

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Posted 31 August 2016 - 05:58 PM

Some negatives I've experienced so far are this weird itchy skin (no rash though) and occasional extreme upper abdominal pain.

The occasional upper abdominal pain is located right on the diaphragm muscle and it's so severe I will have to lie on my back and just breathe slowly. The pain ends usually within 10 minutes and hasn't ever occurred more than once a day. These negatives could very well be produced by the coluracetam I'm taking and I will have to further investigate.
 

Update on this. Have continued with the same stack but took down the UMP dosage a tiny bit, not changing any ingredients. Stomach pains and itching haven't been an issue anymore, but I did experience joint pain, slight fingertip peeling, itchy eyes and a swollen lip the day after my last post. It really felt like an allergic reaction.

I'm not sure what I should think of these side-effects. it could be that it takes a slight getting used to when starting UMP and all these issues will pass when my body gets used to this, but even with this slight pressure/pain in my joints I think I would continue with UMP.

I'm seeing clear improvements in my mood and mental stamina. Over-stimulation from coffee or Vyvanse hasn't been an issue for me.



#2818 SnowFlake

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Posted 01 September 2016 - 02:11 PM

Some negatives I've experienced so far are this weird itchy skin (no rash though) and occasional extreme upper abdominal pain.

The occasional upper abdominal pain is located right on the diaphragm muscle and it's so severe I will have to lie on my back and just breathe slowly. The pain ends usually within 10 minutes and hasn't ever occurred more than once a day. These negatives could very well be produced by the coluracetam I'm taking and I will have to further investigate.

 

 

I am now 90% sure the abdominal pain was caused by the Alpha-GPC. Tested 50 mg on an empty stomach today by itself and within 10 minutes I started to experience severe abdominal pain. I will be dropping it out and continuing with ALCAR as I've never had any problems with it.



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#2819 alexhughes73

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 02:54 PM

Is occasional binge drinking ok while taking this stack? I'm currently only taking uridine, dha and a b complex...



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