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C60 experiments @ home

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#3331 Tim Ventura

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 05:37 PM

I'd like to pose an open question in this thread to any long-term c60oo users: now that we have people taking this supplement for 3 to 4 years now, are you noticing any long-term anti-aging properties? Or instead, does c60oo produce more sporadic, shorter-term effects?

 

In other words, 2 or 3 people that I'm aware of have discussed white hairs turning brown again, others have talked about increased stamina and strength (but the way I read those posts, it seemed like kind of a short-term effect after taking the c60oo), yet others have talked about increased tolerance to alcohol (again, reads as short-term), some say wounds heal faster, etc.

 

But OVERALL, for some of guys, it's been 2, 3 or 4 years now, right? Does your body seem younger? Any reversal in skin aging (sagging, wrinkles, etc), blood-work results, etc...?



#3332 shadowhawk

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 12:38 AM

Most supplements do not produce dramatic effect on many people but I take them because of the science.  I do not expect fast short term results.

 



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#3333 seescaper

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 01:41 AM

I am 65yo and have been taking c60 with some regularity for a few years but have not noticed any positive or negative effects. The original studies offered a number of possible benefits, such as increased lifespan, hepato-protection, and less susceptibility to tumors, if the results are translatable from rats to humans.

I recently came across a blog entry in the excellent website “anti-aging firewalls” written by Jim Watson and Vince Giuliano. In it, there is a proposed mechanism as to why we live longer than rats and get less tumors. This may all be related since most rats die from tumors. I have copy/pasted several relevant excerpts from the blog below. But it essentially has to do with the activity of “TEs, ” transposable elements that are linked to cancer and aging. Rats have more active TEs. If c60 could somehow limit the activation of TEs it occurs to me that it would increase their lifespan and reduce tumor formation. However, and this would be KEY, since our genomes ALREADY have this as a feature, the effect on mice might not be applicable to us! I’d like to hear the thoughts of others on this. Because, if so, c60 might not be doing us any good, and any risks might not be worth taking.

 

“A transposable element is a segment of DNA with inverted terminal repeats at each end that can excise or copy itself and move from one location to another within or between chromosomes, plasmids, or phage. Not only can some TEs copy their own genomes — they can also copy and paste parts or wholes of adjacent human genes. 

Most TEs in humans are no longer active although still present in our DNA and making up about half of our genome.  The vast majority of these are no longer active as a result of cumulative mutation, truncation, internal rearrangement and silencing.  However, it is estimated that approximately 100 of L1s TEs per nuclear genome still retain their replication activity.

Cancer cells and certain other diseased cells have very high levels of TE expression, especially cancer cells that have progressed to late stages of chemotherapy and radiation resistance. 

Human endogenous retroviruses (HERVs) are TEs, but though they make up a great deal of our genome they are largely inactive as viruses. 

TEs are highly likely to play major roles in aging.  There is widespread agreement that genomic instability and DNA damage are key features of aging – and TEs cause both.   Although the research on this topic is not completely definitive yet, it may well turn out to be the case that TEs are more important for aging in elderly people than the “usual suspect” pathways like IGF-1 and mTOR.

Global hypo-methylation associated with aging leads to activation of TEs.

As to keeping TEs silent, we humans are much better at this than lower animals, and this might be a big part of explaining why we live longer. 

1. There are Over 2 Million Copy Machines in your Genes, but only 80-100 still work (they are all LINE-1s)

2. Short-lived organisms are more permissive to retrotransposition, whereas long-lived organisms are resistant to retrotranspostion.  

11. Cancer is manifested by dramatic increases in transposable element expression  

21. Retrotransposon activity is likely to be a MAJOR cause of aging

There are 98,000 fragments of leftover “fossil viruses” in our genomes (HERVs but none are capable of “self-copying” themselves.  In rodents, however, there are many mouse endogenous retroviral elements (MERVs) that are “active” and capable of retrotransposition.  This is one of the major genetic differences between “mice and men” and may partially explain why TE insertional mutagenesis in rodents is 100-fold higher than in humans.  Likewise in mice several MERVs are very similar looking to exogenous, infections mouse retroviruses (This is why many viruses cause tumors in mice and rats).   The fact that LTR-retrotransposons cannot copy themselves in humans is surprising, since HERVs make up 8-9% of the human genome (in terms of DNA base pairs).  When transposable elements cannot copy themselves, they are referred to as being “non-autonomous”, which HERVs are in humans (but not rodents).   This difference between humans and rodents may be a major reason why we live so much longer than rodents.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#3334 pleb

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:08 AM

That may well be the case and explains why we have a much better immune and better cell repair mechanism than rodents,
I've also been taking C60-oo for about three and a half years, and have had benefits including greater endurance when walking this was noticeable after about two weeks taking a full pipette each day after buying my first C60-oo from SV , I used to get a burn in my thigh muscles when I reached a road junction and stopped for a breather I realised I no longer got the burn and was not out of breath, I have a small amount of COPD and never felt as if my lungs were full when taking a deep breath plus a tightness under my right shouldered when breathing in deeply had disappeared and my lungs were expanding and felt full,
I also since the age of eighteen had suffered from insomnia taking a long time to drop off to sleep or waking up a couple of times during the night after just a few days I was sleeping regularly for 6 to 8 hours with no interruption,

I have also read that 70 to 80 percent of damage to our genes and 80 to 90 percent of damage to our telomeres is caused by ROS, cell damage is also caused by ROS damage that causes cells to become precancerous if C60 is a super antioxidant has as been proposed and does attract and mop up ROS this would allow our repair mechanism to repair cell damage and not be overwhelmed in time as it is normally as we age,
resulting in less precancerous cells and explain to some extent the lack of cancer and other disease in the rats in the Baati rat study,

Regarding the UV problems mentioned they may not be that big a problem the results were on a small amount of C60 in laboratory conditions and extreme levels of UV and not on C60 as we have it in OO , quite often for a paper to be published they overstate many of the things they find for a more dramatic impact to get it published, that's from an article within the last week in an English newspaper in the science section,
I mix mine in the kitchen or living room in the original glass bottle 1/2 litre at a time and that's then stored in a dark cupboard just being removed to take a small amount,
and I've had no problems , our immune system is more than capable of getting rid of small amounts of toxic waste from our body , it does it every day , there are toxins in all the food you eat , cyanide in Apple's yes it's there ,

C60 molecules are so small that unless all those in your body went bad at once you probably wouldn't notice , approximately 1,000 would just about cover the head of a pin,
carbon atoms 6,500 would just about cover the width of a human hair,

Yes the mice T Moody mentioned were a concern but he has not bothered to try and find out exactly what killed them leaving a question mark over all the C60-oo products that we can buy including the ones that followed the original mix used in the studies i.e. SV and Carbons ,plus all those who make their own,
I exchanged PMs with both Carbon and SV not long after starting taking it Carbon joined the site a couple of months after me and he started producing it a couple of months later,

Edited by pleb, 19 March 2017 - 10:10 AM.

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#3335 pleb

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:23 AM

a few items to add , I've tried 4 different types of olive oil and didn't find any difference in the effects , both my hair and nails grow quicker than they did and although I do have some grey hair the amount as a percentage doesn't appear to have changed,
The only way I would be able to tell if it had lessened wrinkles would to be able to see what I would be like if I had not taken it which would be impossible.
nor do I think we will extend our life by more than about 10 years simply because our immune system is much better than rodents so much of the damage they suffer is likely to be less in us,
And yes the effects do last , I've had regular blood tests every six Months, all came back normal, two X rays and two lots of spirometry tests for my breathing and have been told by the doctor that my breathing is normal for someone my age that doesn't have copd

Edited by pleb, 19 March 2017 - 10:28 AM.

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#3336 Tim Ventura

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:15 PM

Stuff I don't understand with relation to c60, and in general:

 

OK, Free radicals are bad, right? They're all over the place, and eliminating them is a holy grail for longevity, yada yada. That SOUNDS good, and makes logical sense - and it's SO ingrained into modern nutrition that it's hard not to think in those terms. However, as wikipedia says, "Antioxidant dietary supplements do not improve health nor are they effective in preventing diseases" (google it, you'll find sources). So what gives? Is it because c60oo goes into the Mitochondria itself? Or maybe that doesn't matter either?

 

Next: Mitochondria have a half life of around 4 days, right? So supplements that affect them should have short term results. Some say you want more mitochondria, others say you want a few larger ones rather than simply having more. Eric Drexler back in 2010 wrote a bunch of papers on his blog about autophagy - he said that supplements that help mitochondria live longer are bad, they mask the signals that invoke autophagy/mitophagy, in which lysosomes remove malfunctioning mitochondria and then if I remember right they are either replaced or the remaining MC become more efficient.

 

The other mechanism that I've heard is that maybe c60oo does something with gene expression, which I have no idea about.


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#3337 pleb

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:31 PM

That's because most antioxidants are organic, your cells will use those as food for the mitochondria so there use is limited , but C60 is a mineral the mitochondria cannot digest it and even when the mito dies it will stay in the cell picking up ros until the cell itself dies,
Taking the amount suggested by SV a third teaspoonfull a day to take the same amount as the rats based on our size compared to a rats you would need to take the third spoonfuls every day for 17 years

Edited by pleb, 19 March 2017 - 05:35 PM.


#3338 Tim Ventura

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:00 PM

I though the Baati study said they didn't find traces of c60 when they did a postmortem analysis? Maybe I'm mistaken. The corollary to that question is if it DOES stay in the cell, does it get buried in waste materials, leading to some kind of plaque buildup? That would be not good.

 

On the mitrochondria topic: got any leads on where I could buy bulk PQQ? The largest dose I've seen online are 20mg capsules, and from what I've read that's supposed to be adequate, but it's at the very bottom end of the dosage range. I took that for about a month at that dosage with no effects, so I'd love to give it another shot at a higher dose.


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#3339 pleb

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 08:21 AM

I don't think baati had the equipment to detect C60 at the cell level, he didn't try using an electron microscope as the trial was at the end and they wanted to move on to something else,
C60 would be expelled from the body along with the dead cells it is in when the cell dies,
I originally took one pipette a day as suggested by SV since then due to heading out to Mexico for a month at a time I started taking it with longer intervals between and my sleep pattern started to be disrupted so for the last month I've gone back to the smaller amount each day and my sleep has returned to what it was after first starting it

I don't believe the oxygen in the air in the bottles a problem either, after digestion the molecules travel through the blood , your blood is saturated in oxygen that's being taken to every cell in your body so the C60 has more chance of picking up oxygen there in the blood and in the cells which are constantly being fed oxygen than in the bottle,

There are at least 10 suppliers of PQQ here in the uk and I should imagine just as many your side of the pond, just do a search

Edited by pleb, 22 March 2017 - 08:43 AM.


#3340 Turnbuckle

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 12:01 PM

I don't think baati had the equipment to detect C60 at the cell level, he didn't try using an electron microscope as the trial was at the end and they wanted to move on to something else,
 

 

See Fig. 2 in the Baati paper, where they show TEM micrographs of C60 crystals inside macrophages.

 


3.2.2. Biodistribution
 
At day 1 (D1) after administration, C60 contents in livers and spleens represent 0.14% and 0.18% of the administered dose by the oral route, respectively, and 4.73% and 1.55% by the i.p. route, respectively (Table 2).
 
After 7 successive days of administration (D8), C60 contents in livers and spleens correspond to 0.39% and 0.51% of the total administered dose by the oral route, respectively, and 5.54% and
2.39% by the i.p. route, respectively (Table 2).
 
At D1 and D8 C60 content in brains represents less than 0.01% of the administred dose after o.g. while these values are higher than 0.12% after i.p. administration (Table 2).
 
Microscopic examination at D8 of the spleen reticuloendothelial system (RES), where the highest concentrations are observed, shows the presence of some C60 aggregates that are larger and more numerous after i.p. administration (Fig. 2c and d)  than after o.g. (Fig. 2a, b): thus C60 concentrations reached the limit of solubility in spleens. In contrast there are no observable deposits inside the livers in all cases indicating that C60 concentrations in these organs are not high enough to trigger precipitation.
 
While transmission electron microscopy (TEM) at D8 after i.p. administration shows numerous spleen macrophages laden C60 crystals (Fig. 2e) only some C60 crystals were observed inside liver macrophages and very rare crystals in lung (Fig. 2f) and kidney cells  (Fig. 2g).
 

 

 

 


Edited by Turnbuckle, 22 March 2017 - 12:10 PM.

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#3341 pleb

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 12:32 PM

Yes I had forgotten about the SEM photos , he obviously had access to one early on in the trail, I remembered his mentioning that they didn't look to closely at the end as they wanted to close the trial,

Edited by pleb, 22 March 2017 - 12:35 PM.

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#3342 jeanlzt

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 05:31 PM

If you make C60 using only MCT oil is there any reason a dose can't be taken along with a tsp of olive oil or with an olive leaf extract supplement or any other supplement we'd like to try with it?  Or do these supplements have to be mixed beforehand into the MCT/C60?


Edited by jeanlzt, 03 April 2017 - 05:32 PM.


#3343 hav

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 08:17 PM

I've been experimenting mixing c60 with a number of different oils which have fatty acid profiles similar to Olive Oil.  Specifically: Macadamia,  Safflower, and Sunflower oils as well as Ethyl Oleate which is used in pharmaceuticals. Ethyl Oleate clearly dissolves the most c60 but tastes so pharmaceutical I had trouble with the taste even when mixed with heavy seasoning in a salad dressing. I wouldn't use it in anything but a gel cap.  I am trying the more natural oils with c60, however.  They seem to dissolve more c60 than olive oil. I assume due to the higher Oleic Acid content.  They seem to be thinner oils and filter easier.  And have less flavor.

 

Howard


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