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Benzo withdrawal 14 months off, still suffering with cognitive impairment

benzodiazepine withdrawal cognitive impairment

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#1 Kompota

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 11:40 AM


Hello to everybody. I am a newbie here looking for advice. I am glad to see here people with some scientific background, who are really methodical (as opposed to some arrogant neurologist: "ahh, you are anxious, take this klonopin and do not argue with me if you want to heal") and have been researching into the matter of neuroscience. I have read the posts of ScienceGuy and I am simply amazed at his background knowledge, so I was hoping for some help.

I was on benzodiazepines for a short term, nevertheless I got into this mess. And when you are into benzo withdrawal, it does not matter long term of short term. It is a very individual thing in the end. The whole thing was so unnecessary, but lack of knowledge about those evil drugs, my own stupidity, and doctor's greed have put me into this situation.

At present, 14+ months off xanax and clonazepam, I am struggling with cognitive issues mainly.

Short term memory is literally non-existent, I can not focus, suffer from lack of creativity, abstract thinking and problem-solving skills, I have no motivation, small tasks represent a huge challenge. Everything I listed here comes with a king of mental fatigue and tension, which is difficult to explain. It is like some kind of brain fog, I feel like a retard (and I am a computer programmer).

Physically I am doing ok overall, maybe at 99%. I get tired more easily, have some musle weakness especially in the early mornings (high cortisol maybe ?), and blurred vision. Those symptoms are not that much of a trouble really, being of low intensity. But they are a very typical sign that my nervous system is still out of whack.

Sleep is still disturbed. It is not a full-blown insomnia, since mostly I have no troubles falling asleep (happens maybe only 1-2 times a month), but the issue is rather sleep maintainance. I am taking Trazodone (an older generation anti-depressant with some sedative properties) and it helps in this regard, reducing the number of awakenings and helping to fall asleep after an awakening. I chose that type of sleep remedy, since it does not work on GABA-receptors (at least directly) and is considered non-addictive (haven't noticed any tolerance build-up, I went from 100 mg in early withdrawal, through 50 mg, and to 25 mg as of now) and safe at the low doses it is prescribed for sleep.

As a summary: at 14 months off into benzodiazepine withdrawal, I am not doing too bad overall (basic day-life is ok), but the persisting cognitive issues are debilitating. So I am no longer looking for a temporary symptoms relief, flooding the damaged GABA-receptors with more agonists (be those "natural" or "weak") or increasing synaptic levels of GABA. I am looking for a long-term solution out of this chronic state, even if it does mean a certain discomfort at short-term.

I have been thinking about antagonizing my GABA-receptors. I have read everything about flumazenil, but unfortunately it has a very short half-life thus it is not very practical for this purpose. Still I consider to do just a single "test" to validate a theory of mine. Of course it would be performed very carefully and under supervision of a medical person.

At 11 months out I tried something. Wormwood is known to have some antagonistic properties. I started drinking wormwood tea regullarly. I started to notice some improvements in my overall condition, but I tend to attribute those to the stage of post-BZD recovery (many are reporting turning a corner between months 11 and 15). But still, the fact it did not make me worse at least, gives some food for though. It is not as simple as: "by blocking your damaged receptors with an antagonist, you would excite your CNS further, and thus feel even worse". Well, I didn't. Of course, one could argue that wormwood is a very weak antagonist, and you just wouldn't even notice it.

I have a theory what has happenned in my case. It is not just that agonizing GABA-receptors with benzodiazepines has led them to loose their original affinity / led to a decrease of their density. I believe, in attempt to achieve homeostasis, my nervous system has gone even further by making conformational changes in the receptors' expression, switching them from agonist to an inverse agonist conformation. In other words they no longer "accept" the agonistic (calming or anxiolytic) body ligand, but the opposite inverse agonistic (anxiogenic) ligand. So the body is somewhat "fooled" and that's why I am experiencing those secondary long-lasting symptoms with cognitive impairment: since it cannot achieve overall homeostasis with the help of the GABA / Glutamate cycle, it performs a cascade of downstream adaptations (downregulation) on other neurotransmitters: Dopamine, Norepinephrine, Serotonine and Acetylcholine (I believe in particular the last one is responsible for the normal intellectual activity). Those neurotrasmitters are responsible for a normal mental state. Of course the reason for the cog/brain fog should be looked for outside the GABA/Glutamate cycle. The point is, one can argue that while Glutamate is the main excitatory neurotransmitter in the CNS, those other neurotransmitters posess some excitatory function as well, at a certain - surely smaller - extend.

Could someone shed some light onto that particular issue please ?

Of course it is a layman's theory, but it would explain a lot. There have been trials with flumazenil on patients in protracted withdrawal (no, not those barbaric rapid detoxes, I want to stress that). While results vary of course, in the majority of cases they are reporting a relief of symptoms (including even cognition !) to a different extend. That would perfectly match the assumption about the conformational changes of receptors - flumazenil is symply blocking that inverse agonist. I want to stress that I do not regard flumazenil as some kind of a "miracle" cure reversing receptor damage, just that it brings some plausible explanation of what really does go on there and about possible solutions. Off course, reversal of receptor tolerance is a very slow process (neurogenesis) with protein synthesis, regrowth of neural pathways, reversal of gene expression and receptor externalisation. But it appears there is more than that, with the receptors being locked into an abnormal state and CNS being "fooled". There are reports that flumazenil may even work long-term into full reversal of GABA-receptor changes, by following a certain protocol. They put you on a subcutaneous IV-infusion (trying to extend it's effect since it has a short half-lfe) over a couple of weeks. The results are promissing, but it seems so far nobody has been willing to perform more extensive research.

And here comes my other question: what is the argumentation that antagonizing GABA-receptors will help them restore their original affinity over time ? My benzo brain is missing the train of thought :)

Thanks in advance.
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#2 luv2increase

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 04:05 PM

Trazodone is not helping any at all. It is a dumb drug. You may have a difficult time getting off it.

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#3 thegron

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 04:20 AM

Hi Kompota,

I'm sorry you are dealing with the benzodiazepine protracted withdrawal syndrome. It is a real thing and unfortunately the effects can sometimes be very long lasting and possibly permanent. I cannot say with any certainty whether or not you will make a full recovery but I can say that you have to give it longer than 14 months. It could take 5 years or even more to recover appreciably. I know this because I have done LOADS of research on the subject because I, too suffer from this syndrome. And I only clonazepam in tiny doses (0.125 or 0.25 mg) and only as needed (two or three times a week).

I liked your theory about your brain's reaction to the benzodiazepines. I am not sure if you are right or not but it is very interesting. We believe that the memory impairments associated with both short and long term benzodiazepine use is related to the agonization of the GABAa alpha-5 subunit. With benzodiazepines, we are hitting all of the GABAa receptor alpha subunits non-selectively and that is problematic, as they do not all produce a favorable response when agonized. The alpha-5 subunit is best left untouched or perhaps inversely agonized or antagonized. I'm going to post a link below that describes a new drug (and others like it are being developed) that selectively antagonizes the alpha-5 subunit and therefore, actually IMPROVES memory and acts as a nootropic! It also agonizes the right receptors so that it doesn't cause seizures or anxiety (flumazenil would be the wrong choice because you would be antagonizing some of the wrong subunits). It is really cool stuff and I'm certain you and I will see these drugs on the market within the next 20 years or so. It could be helpful to those of us who have protracted withdrawal syndrome. Unfortunately, we know so little about the human brain and the body in general. Often, we have a gun and we generally know in what direction to aim it but it is a real shot in the dark...


If you have any more questions, please do not hesitate to ask and I will try to answer them as best I can. Good luck my friend and try to be kind to yourself and understanding of your poor beleaguered brain :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%915IA

-Thegron (Pharmacy student)
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#4 noos

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 04:42 AM

Did you take two benzos at the same time? Dose?
I am sure sulbutiamine will help you.

#5 Kompota

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:33 AM

luv2increase

Trazodone is not the issue here. I take it for nothings else, but to help with sleep and it does. I am at a very low dose now - 25 mg, and I was at 100 mg during acute benzo withdrawal - no trouble with reducing the dose at all. It is not a nice drug, but still it is like a candy compared to benzos, which have put me into this mess.


noos

Initially I took Xanax very occasionally over a period of 4 months. Took maybe a total of 20-30 x 0.5 pills, nevertheless I felt sick with tolerance withdrawal and interdose withdrawal (due to the short half-life) on top of it. At that point I was clueless what was going on and that Xanax was making me very ill. In retrospection, I started developing tolerance very quickly, after the first 2-3 pills maybe. Then I was put on Clonazepam 1 mg per day by a greedy neurologist. Again - sick with tolerance, so I did quit cold turkey after a month. Maybe cold turkey was wrong, but in the end I do not regret it at all. At 14 months off I am actually feeling better than during the time on benzos with the constant tolerance and interdose withdrawal.

I read sulbutiamine is a Vitamin B supplement, which crosses the blood-brain barrier more easily. I have tried some supplements. One of them is a compound of Omega-3, Ginko Biloba, Vitamin B12, etc. I believe vitamin B has only revved me up (temporary though), so I stopped it.


Thegron

Thanks for the response. I have already read the information about the a5IA and thought it is exactly the solution for protracted symptoms like cognitive issues. Sadly, it is not commercially available yet. And 20 years is a lot of time for a young man relying on his brain power in his job. I may have to try a "traditional", generic GABA-receptor antagonist, I just do not have a choice. In fact, my anxiety is very low if any at all. About seizures - I did quit from 1 mg Clonazepam cold turkey. I felt bad during acute withdrawal of course, but it was not the full-blown hell that many people experience after a C/T. Not even the slightest sign of a seizure. It appears my seizure treshhold is quite high. We are so different - some people have a very intense withrawal, but it is over within 12-18 months without lingering issues after that. Yet for some of us like me, the worst part is over very quickly and it isn't even that bad, but after that we are left with some chronic lingering issues (like cognition), which seem to last forever

#6 gamesguru

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:33 AM

Bacopa ameliorates seizure-induced GABAergic downregulation (http://www.biomedcen...-0127-19-25.pdf). That's usually only a problem in acute, not protracted, withdrawals, though. But undetectable seizures may contribute to the process of protracted withdrawal. We simply don't know.

thegron is right about the alpha-5 GABA subtype receptor, though, it will be rather difficult to obtain this new drug.

I don't see how sulbutiamine will help relieve this issue if it's really due to receptor imbalances. Sulbutiamine raises ACh, glutamate, and GABA. How can it restore alpha-5 receptors?

This is a good resource: http://www.benzo.org.uk/ashanswer.htm.

The best thing may be time, abstinence, and a positive attitude. Every day you try hard or try your best, things will get better. If you feel really upset with the progress you're making, there are usually experimental clincal trials recruiting participants. Maybe you should consider one of those for protracted benzo withdrawal? Depending where you live, you might get cheap, legal access to next generation drugs.

Edited by dasheenster, 23 August 2012 - 05:38 AM.


#7 noos

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:51 AM

no. sulbu is not just a vitamin B. as ssris are not just a modified antihistamine.

Are you sure your memory problems are not due to depression.?

Edited by noos, 23 August 2012 - 06:04 AM.


#8 noos

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 06:01 AM

Bacopa ameliorates seizure-induced GABAergic downregulation (http://www.biomedcen...-0127-19-25.pdf). That's usually only a problem in acute, not protracted, withdrawals, though. But undetectable seizures may contribute to the process of protracted withdrawal. We simply don't know.

thegron is right about the alpha-5 GABA subtype receptor, though, it will be rather difficult to obtain this new drug.

I don't see how sulbutiamine will help relieve this issue if it's really due to receptor imbalances. Sulbutiamine raises ACh, glutamate, and GABA. How can it restore alpha-5 receptors?

This is a good resource: http://www.benzo.org.uk/ashanswer.htm.

The best thing may be time, abstinence, and a positive attitude. Every day you try hard or try your best, things will get better. If you feel really upset with the progress you're making, there are usually experimental clincal trials recruiting participants. Maybe you should consider one of those for protracted benzo withdrawal? Depending where you live, you might get cheap, legal access to next generation drugs.


Why does sulbu has to affect alpha-5 receptors to improve memory?

Edited by noos, 23 August 2012 - 06:12 AM.


#9 gamesguru

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:07 PM

It doesn't. But lots of things improve memory. I don't suggest we inundate him with a megastack. If his problem is really due to protracted benzo withdrawal, the research suggests that he'll have best results if he targets the alpha-5 receptor.

#10 c60tester

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 03:57 PM

Same thing happened to me when I was on benzos for 3 months.

I plan on doing rounds of flumazenilI or even gaba receptor inverse agonists like α5IA or L-655,708 which are supposed to be nootropics.



Check out 6:40.

I think this is the only way to fix this.

Edited by c60tester, 23 August 2012 - 04:00 PM.

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#11 mycotheologist

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:51 AM

Trazodone is addictive. Maybe thats only at antidepressant doses (150mg+), but I read that its best to taper off it rather than quit abruptly. When did you start taking the trazodone? It might be causing the cognitive impairment. I've been taking trazodone to sleep for the past few days and I noticed a fair bit of cognitive impairment. Yesterday I couldn't even remember what abstract means. This drug works very well for sleep but it has its fair share of side effects. I started on 50mg per night but I find 100mg works much better.

As for your inverse agonist theory, I don't know but I'd assume that GABA_a receptors having an inverse agonist conformation would have the same effect as plain old downregulation of the receptors. The result is an overall decrease in activation of the receptors and I assume the body would respond by reversing whatever changes took place, rather than altering other neurotransmitters.

You're saying you had acute withdrawals after taking such a tiny amount of xanax over a 4 month period then taking clonazepam for only a month? And if thats not enough, 14 months later, you still have PAWS. This is insane. I took twice that amount of xanax over a 3 week period recently and I had no acute withdrawal. I have been using different GABAergic drugs over a 6 month period and all I seem to have are very mild w/d symptoms. Are you sure there isn't something else going on? If I were you, I would do ibogaine therapy. I bet it will instantly reverse any changes that occured to your neurochemistry and sort your problem out completely. Even if its neuropathy that is causing the symptoms, ibogaine is known to facilitate recovery from neuropathy. What continent are you in?

Edited by mycotheologist, 24 August 2012 - 09:22 AM.

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#12 Kompota

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:22 AM

I do not really believe Trazodone is addictive. It works as a serotonine reuptake inhibitor (no direct effect on the GABAergic system), which opposed to the mechanism of allosteric modulation is far less likely to cause longer-lasting neuroadaptations. I went 100 -> 50 -> 25 mg (no interminent tapering) without much of a trouble. About the side effects: yes, at the very beginning for a week or two when I took the pill in the evening, I got so dizzy and sedated that I was almost ready to vomit. It went away though after a few days. And that was at 100 mg. I found 50 mg to provide some decent sleep (not ideal though, it was worse than 100 mg of course). So it helps me sleep better and I noticed when I sleep worse, cognition is even worse the following day.

It is the benzos that have caused this terrible mess.

It looks as α5IA is very promising for my particular issue, but sadly it is not available on the market yet. And the video said they had to interrupt the human trials due to renal toxicity (have I got it right ?)

I may try a flumazenil treatment if I find a properly educated medical person willing to do that. It appears my anxiety ratings are quite low, so I do not fear an increase in anxiety that much. Might a resulting glutamate excitotoxicity be an issue though ?
I think the bad reputation of flumazenil comes from those crazy and unnecessary rapid detoxes, which are nothing more than an accelerated cold turkey, but more brutal. But what about protracted withdrawal many months after the last traces of the benzo have left the body ? There is so little research conducted.

#13 mycotheologist

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:30 AM

Trazodone mainly works as an antagonist of various neurotransmitters:It has higher affinity for 5-HT2a receptor (which is why is stimulates activity) but also blocks adrenaline a1 receptors effectively which probably plays a large role in its hypnotic effects. Sounds like you know more about pharmacology than me. I thought allosteric regulation only applied to drugs that target enzymes (since enzymes have allosteric sites in addition to their main active sites). Do things like GABA_a receptors also have allosteric sites?

EDIT: Hold on, I'll say more when I've read your full reply.

Have you been taking trazodone every day for the past 14 months? I took 100mg last night to sleep and I feel fine this morning, absolutely no side effects at all (not even nightmares) besides this cognitive impairment. If you haven't taken a break from the trazodone, you'll really have to give that a try to see how your cognitive functioning changes.

Excitotoxicity is the main concern I'd have with administering a GABA antagonist. Quinolone antibiotics are potent GABA antagonists and I'm guessing the neuropathy they cause is due to glutamate excitotoxicity. Coadministering a good NMDA antagonist (something stronger than magnesium) would help protect your brain against that but there are two other subtypes of glutamate receptors, kainate receptors and I don't remember the name of the other one. I know very little about glutamate receptors, I'll have to research this more before I can say anything about it.

Edited by mycotheologist, 24 August 2012 - 09:40 AM.


#14 Kompota

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:40 AM

Oh, and I forgot to mention something very important. Maybe many of you know that benzo withdrawal is a bit of a rollercoaster, a non-linear experience with waves (when one feels worse) and windows (when one feels better). Nowadays most days are just average (no intense symptoms, just being dull :) ), there are no really bad days any more and things have improved very noticeably. But there have been few "window" days when everythings felt so-ooo much better, including cognition. It was not at 100%, but still much-much better than the baseline. That gives me hope that the whole thing is not permanent, rather than being a functional issue (very slow to reverse though). It appears the CNS can make homeostatic changes very quickly on a micro level.

#15 mycotheologist

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:52 AM

How do stimulants effect you? Are you abnormally sensitive to them? Do they enhance your cognitive functioning?

#16 Kompota

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 09:55 AM

Now that I have looked at it, it reads that Trazodone is both a Serotonine antagonist and reuptake inhibitor. If it is indeed an antagonist, one wouldn't have to worry about developing a tolerance at all. Or so I guess :).

I am pretty sure benzos (and plenty of other compounds) are positive allosteric modulators at GABA-a binding sites. It is a very efficient way of achieving a desired psychopharmacological effect, sadly at a terrible price.

#17 mycotheologist

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 11:02 AM

Ah yeah, I just learned about how benzodiazepines work (very silly that I never did this before) and I see that you're right. Benzos bind to allosteric sites on the GABA_a receptor and this causes the receptor to change to a more active conformation which the GABA receptor has a much higher affinity for. While I feel much slower, my cognitive functioning can't be that impaired if I'm still able to learn effectively. My brain definitely feels duller though and my short term memory is insanely bad right now. I'm not sure if this is from quitting benzos or from taking 100mg of trazodone to sleep last night but I'm going to stop taking trazodone to see if my cognitive abilities are better when I'm off it.

EDIT: I just found out about an extremely potent GABA_a antagonist:
https://en.wikipedia...iki/Bicuculline
maybe one can make a very weak tea from the plant.

Edited by mycotheologist, 24 August 2012 - 11:09 AM.


#18 Kompota

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:42 PM

How long has it been since the last benzo ?

#19 mycotheologist

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 04:02 PM

5 days.

#20 Kompota

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 04:33 PM

Then it might well be a benzo after-effect. However, considering you aren't doing bad and are not experiencing acute withdrawal symptoms, then I believe it should resolve rather quickly unlike in my case. If sleep is not that much of an issue, you might consider stopping Trazodone as well.

That is the nature of the benzo beast - when I was taking Xanax very occasionally (it is an extremely potent drug no matter the dose and usage frequency), at the very beginning the tolerance did creep in very quietly almost unnoticed. I became progressively ill with sleep and cognition getting worse and increased agitation, but it did not come suddenly. So it fools you to believe it is not the benzo, and it must be something else, some underlying issue. I have learned a hard lesson.

#21 mycotheologist

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:47 PM

I recommend trying this:
http://www.himalayah...UCTS/mentat.htm
I read good things about that from people who used it to remedy cognitive impairment caused by neuropathy. While its not likely, its possible that your symptoms might be caused by neuropathy, that would explain why its taking so long to heal. If I'm not mistaken, neuropathy caused by benzos usually takes around a year and a half to fully heal. There are ways to accelerate it though, I was reading threads about neuropathy on another forum and read that people claimed to have cured their neuropathy by taking supplements which feed the mitochondria, I can't remember the exact details but I remember CoQ10 was one of them.

Edited by mycotheologist, 24 August 2012 - 05:50 PM.


#22 manic_racetam

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 07:56 PM

What about proproten1? Seems to work well for alcohol addiction/withdrawal2 and am I wrong that benzo's work in a similar fashion on the GABA systems as alcohol? I'm working on ordering some right now actually.

The two studies linked above:

1Comparative efficiency of Proproten-100 during the therapy of patients with alcoholism in the stage of therapeutic remission.
2Psychotropic activity of the antialcohol preparation Proproten-100.

#23 c60tester

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:00 PM

I think the bad reputation of flumazenil comes from those crazy and unnecessary rapid detoxes, which are nothing more than an accelerated cold turkey, but more brutal. But what about protracted withdrawal many months after the last traces of the benzo have left the body ? There is so little research conducted.



This study was done and flumazenil was found to be somewhat effective.

http://www.bcnc.org.uk/flumazenil.html

I guess it should be done continuously for while to have more permanent effects.

#24 mycotheologist

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 02:00 PM

Very interesting. So flumazenil binds to the benzodiazepine site on the GABA_a receptors and inhibits it like that. This must mean that flumazenil forces the GABA_a receptors active site into a less active conformation which the GABA neurotransmitter has less affinity for. With this in mind, if the OPs theory about his GABA_a receptors being in an inverse agonist conformation is correct, then repeated administration of flumazenil should cause the GABA_a receptors to change to more active conformations. For anyone who doesn't know what an inverse agonist is, I'll explain it. Drug receptors can be activated to a very low extent, without any drug or neurotransmitter even being present. They are self activated. An inverse agonist forces the receptor into a conformation in which there is less of this self activation going on so the effects it produces are more extreme than a regular antagonist.

Heres a quote from that article:

An alternative explanation is that chronic agonist use causes a persistent conformational change and thus a shift in benzodiazepine receptor efficacy in the direction of inverse agonist function (Little, Nutt and Taylor, 1987) and that flumazenil resets the receptor's sensitivity (Nutt and Costello, 1988).


It seems that flumazenil isn't just an antagonist (meaning it doesn't just block endogenous benzodiazepine receptor agonists), its an inverse agonist (meaning it forces the BZ site into a less active conformation). Don't quote me on any of that though, I'm just learning all this stuff now myself. I was looking into endogenous BZ ligands and I could only find mention of diazepam binding inhibitor (DBI) so far. I'm guessing DBI is a negative allosteric modulator (meaning when it binds to the BZ site, it causes the GABA_a receptors active site to change to a less active conformation which is the opposite of what benzos do. I'm not sure what exactly flumazenil does. If its a BZ antagonist, then it will just block the BZ site so that benzos and endogenous BZ ligands cannot reach it but if the only endogenous BZ ligand in the human body is BDI, then flumazenil wouldn't reset sensitivity at all so it must be an inverse agonist (meaning it changes the conformation of the BZ site itself so that its less sensitive).

Edited by mycotheologist, 26 August 2012 - 02:40 PM.


#25 Luminosity

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 03:40 AM

Kompota, your English is excellent.

I would be scared to take more drugs to fix the problems caused by drugs. I think a natural approach is better.

You've mentioned other medications besides the benzo's. I wonder if those are part of the problem?

I've posted a link to a thread about Chinese medicine that I wrote. You might look into that:

http://www.longecity...inese-medicine/

It might be that Western medicine doesn't have a good cure for this, but nature probably does.

If you could find a good acupuncturist/Chinese herbalist, that would probably be best. If not, maybe you will find the cure some other way.

For cognitive issues, I like Gaia Organics liquid extracts of Ginkgo and Gotu Kola (separate extracts, I use the alcohol ones, taken on an empty stomach, not at night). I also add hot plain green tea, and vitamin C. If you suspect there is some kind of blockage or deposit in your brain, there are some enzymes that may help. I like Natures Plus Pancreatin and Bromelain by KAL (no other brand of bromelain is effective). I take them on an empty stomach. You can also try Green Magma barley grass juice supplement from Japan. It is really high in SOD. Failing that, fresh aloe vera juice is good. Avoid the peel and the area just inside the peel because the yellow latex stuff is not good for you. I think that avoiding prescription medicine, if possible, is a good idea as is not smoking, not taking recreational drugs including marijuana and not drinking to excess. Avoid energy drinks, excess sugar, caffeine, and junk food. It's a good idea to eat a steamed green vegetable every day. That helps the brain a lot.

Edited by Luminosity, 27 August 2012 - 03:44 AM.

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#26 factum

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:39 PM

If I were you, I would do ibogaine therapy. I bet it will instantly reverse any changes that occured to your neurochemistry and sort your problem out completely. Even if its neuropathy that is causing the symptoms, ibogaine is known to facilitate recovery from neuropathy.


This claim strikes me as highly irresponsible. "Instantly reverse any changes that occurred to your neurochemistry"? On what basis do you make such a sweeping assertion?

It is similarly irresponsible to recommend a hallucinogen, which (like any hallucinogen) could cause a traumatic trip and leave psychological ruin in its wake, to someone suffering from a withdrawal syndrome characterized by anxiety and derealization.

And earlier in your post, mycoethologist, you express disbelief that such a brief period of using benzos could cause protracted withdrawal. Unfortunately, as sites like BenzoBuddies make all too clear, such a situation is all too common.

#27 Reformed-Redan

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 12:06 AM

Same thing happened to me when I was on benzos for 3 months.

I plan on doing rounds of flumazenilI or even gaba receptor inverse agonists like α5IA or L-655,708 which are supposed to be nootropics.



Check out 6:40.

I think this is the only way to fix this.

How do you plan on getting α5IA or L-655,708?

#28 c60tester

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 06:37 AM

Same thing happened to me when I was on benzos for 3 months.

I plan on doing rounds of flumazenilI or even gaba receptor inverse agonists like α5IA or L-655,708 which are supposed to be nootropics.



Check out 6:40.

I think this is the only way to fix this.

How do you plan on getting α5IA or L-655,708?


I don't know if it's possible. I know it's for sale on some websites, but pretty expensive.

Does anyone know if you have to be a research company or something to buy this stuff or can anyone do it?
www.tocris.com/dispprod.php?ItemId=2008#.UEQz1yLud8E
http://www.sigmaaldr...ng=en&region=US

Edited by c60tester, 03 September 2012 - 06:39 AM.


#29 Reformed-Redan

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 04:47 PM

Same thing happened to me when I was on benzos for 3 months.

I plan on doing rounds of flumazenilI or even gaba receptor inverse agonists like α5IA or L-655,708 which are supposed to be nootropics.



Check out 6:40.

I think this is the only way to fix this.

How do you plan on getting α5IA or L-655,708?


I don't know if it's possible. I know it's for sale on some websites, but pretty expensive.

Does anyone know if you have to be a research company or something to buy this stuff or can anyone do it?
www.tocris.com/dispprod.php?ItemId=2008#.UEQz1yLud8E
http://www.sigmaaldr...ng=en&region=US

Oh, thought you were doing a custom synthesis. Was wondering.

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#30 Major Legend

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:44 PM

I have nothing to contribute, but this topic is interesting. Can you describe in detail what your brain fog is like? Is it pure fatigue, do you feel a difficulty in having a string of thoughts? Do you have gaps in your thinking? How is your cognitive state now compared to how it was before your exposure?

I am having trouble understanding exactly how long, and how much you were exposed to Benzodiazepines for, it seems at one point you were taking quite a moderate dose mixing both Xanax and Clonazepam (which has a very long half-life).

I really like your idea of a cascade of neurotransmiter downregulation. It would explain a lot of why there are so many unrelated psychological withdrawal symptoms, but then if it were true then it also means that the extent of the initial process or secondary process of downregulation varies a lot from person to person by a lot.

Edited by Major Legend, 07 September 2012 - 02:50 PM.






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