50 replies to this topic

[brainmaker]

Here is the stack I plan on taking. 

600 mg Artichoke extract
500mg quercetin
250mg resveratrol
150 mg forskolin
20 mg DMAA (1,3-dimethylamylamine)
4200mg phosphatidylcholine
250mg Uridine monophosphate
4 g (DHA) Docosahexaenoic acid
50 mg noopept
1g Acetylcarnitine
500mg lions mane mushroom
1200mg piracetam
750mg oxiracetam
800mg aniracetam
400mg calcium carbonate
Luteolin 150mg
500mg phenylalanine
Methylene blue 250mg
Pramiracetam 500mg
500 mg cdp choline
500mg bacopa
Ashwagandha 750mg
Fish oil 3.5 g
Ginkgo biloba 750mg
Phosphatidyl Serine 100mg
700mg SAMe
Creatine mp 5g
Dextrose 5g
Glutamic Acid 500mg
Vitamin b50 complex
4g inositol 
Adderal xr 10mg (possibly changed out for straterra 25mg)
Lexapro 2.5mg
Pregnelone 50mg
Jatamansi 500mg
Alpha gpc 300mg
L-theanine 100mg
100mg ALA (Alpha Lipoic acid)
Vitamin c 500mg
Zinc 25mg
Magnesium citrate 240mg
1g sulbutimine
5 Methylcobalamin sublingualy
1000mg TMG(Trimethylglycine)
100mg ginseng
Lithium orotate 5mg at night 
Glycine 3g induces sleep
Pantothenic acid 1000mg
Guanfacine 1mg

Multi
Vitamin D 2000iu
Vitamin k2 mk7 100mcg
Pom40p pomegranate extract
Magnesium malate

Will this be harmful to me? I need help because I don't want to kill myself or get serotonin syndrome. I plan on taking this all in the morning with a good breakfast, except for the things marked night. I can deal with intense headaches. I am a firm believer in the idea of, "no pain, no gain." 
I apologize in advance if something in this post doesn't make sense as I have not slept for about 90 hours and im not functioning at 100% right now. This stack is a combination of my own thoughts and a few of the stacks that have been posted on here. Please help me edit this. I am going to start taking whatever the final edited stack is in a couple of weeks.
Thanks in advance for everyone's help

[puck]

Oh my dear lord. You are planning on doing harm to yourself.

Remember the KISS principle, 'keep it simple, stupid'. You can't do everything in life, and you certainly can't do everything in life RIGHT NOW. I know it's tempting, but less is more, sometimes. And less is less dangerous, almost always.

I suggest limiting to key, non-redundant ingredients (eg, why multiple recetams?) that work synergistically (ie, need acetyl & choline source with racetam), plus a couple of goodies on the side. Any more than that should be added gradually over time.

Have you actually added up the grammage of what you're planning on taking? These aren't exactly foods, you know.

[brainmaker]

I know that I am overdoing it but that's is the plan. If you could be more specific on your opinions I need help with editing the stack.

Also the different racetams seem to have different effects on me

[puck]

The fact that things have different effects on you is not sufficient justification for taking them all. Sometimes you have to prioritise.

I hope you realise that "overdoing it" by definition means doing too much. It seems to me like you want to push the boundaries on what is beneficial - that's cool. Overdoing it is something else entirely. There is no logic in doing harm to yourself.

But then as William Blake said in his Proverbs of Hell: You can't know how much is enough until you know how much is too much. You embark on this journey at your own peril, not mine. I wish you well.

I reiterate my intuition that starting small and building up is the best option. Apart from what I've already said, I leave the specifics up to you.

Also, brainmaker, I ask you again: how many grams of supplements do you plan on taking daily?

[brainmaker]

The idea is maximum self improvement. I understand that the weight of what I am taking is like a whole meal, but why is that in itself such a problem. Will my body not be able to process so much?
This might just be stupid, but I plan to add modifinal

[puck]

Man, this is not a whole meal: these are extracts and chemicals - not food. What you are introducing is a chemical cocktail of costituents that may be harmless on their own but in such a massive combination may be severely detrimental to your physical and cognitive functioning. You cannot afford to discount that possibility.

It may be that all you get is some very expensive urine and a trip to the hospital. Where will your lofty aims be then? Don't be allergic to prudence. There's nothing wrong with starting small and working up to all this. That way you've got a better chance of knowing if any one supplement disagrees with you.

[brainmaker]

I think I am going to take your advice. I think I will lower the dosage on everything, but I need to know what I should take off the list

[brainmaker]

I am adding modfinal but what is the difference between this and nuvigil

[ephraim]

hahah thats crazy. keep me updated on your results!

[Acetylnordopatoninol]

"no pain, no gain" is the wrong saying to go by in this case. think more along the lines of "do no harm".

[Gorthaur]

I second puck's recommendation to keep it simple. For starters, taking this many capsules and powders at once will give you a terrible upset stomach. Combining adderall with racetams is probably neurotoxic. Combining adderall with phenylalanine, pregnenolone, sulbutiamine, and ALCAR has the potential to produce a hypertensive episode, or at least a panic attack. Adding modafinil on top of that would be very dangerous. One stimulant should be all you need. Your CILTEP stack is too much - you'd probably be dizzy and feel like you're floating. Your racetam and choline stack is also too much for most people, and it's likely to produce brain fog. I would recommended cutting everything but vitamins and minerals, and adding in one other supplement at a time. If you're in more of a hurry, you could add one sub-stack at a time, like your racetam stack, or the uridine stack.

[NerdyNelson]

I'm taking noopept and vinpocetine. You have to see how the drugs interact, taking more things isn't always going to positively affect every drug your taking. I recommend taking the most commonly used nootropics. I would recommend noopept and vinpocetine stack, because that's what i'm on right now and I feel it's pretty powerful. I'm going to add another nootropic after a month, I've been eyeing up a nice one (huperzine a) but I still have to wait until november 1st to add it anyways. I give each drug a month to get the full effects. Even though I did stack the noopept a week after the vinpocetine. :/

Plus, i'm really interested in "alpha brain" formula. I just cant pay $35 for a 30 days supply of something I don't even know if I like. I plan on buying the ingredients and adding the best ones from their formula if I am interested.

Edited by NerdyNelson, 08 October 2012 - 11:40 PM.

[twerp]

As others have said, this stack is likely to be taxing on your body due to the sheer volume of chemicals. The first thing you should do is trim the stack - and you surely can (e.g. you have numerous dopaminergic stimulants).

Organize this stack based on the benefits you hope to accrue. You'll quickly find that many of the supplements on your list have very similar mechanisms of action and are unnecessary to stack.
Some of chemicals in this stack may even compete or antagonize unhelpfully on certain receptors.

The smaller you can make your stack, the more effective, inexpensive, and ultimately sustainable it will be.

[puck]

I apologize in advance if something in this post doesn't make sense as I have not slept for about 90 hours and im not functioning at 100% right now.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that in addition to what everyone else has said, there's probably nothing on your list that would outweigh the benefits of a good night's sleep each night. I'm worried about you.

[brainmaker]

In terms of sleep this is an issue on its own for me. Since I posted this I am unable to sleep. I am assuming this is a negative reaction to something. Even without taking something I rarely sleep more than 3 hours a night. I am lowering the doses and then I am going to post a new stack on this thread for review,

[brainmaker]

So on the advice given above would this stack be safe if I cut every thing exept for the vitamins and minerals by some number, take away the adderal, and add modfinal.
What is everyone's opinion on this?
Should I cut it in half, take only a third, or a forth, of what I have listed?

[requiredinformation]

haha god damn...see you on the other side!

[protoject]

I think you should just forget about stacks for like 5 years , maybe come back to the idea after knowing how you actually react to each thing and having an actual real reason for taking it, i mean come on this is just senseless overkill

[Crispy Cat]

Fully agree with Protoject!
you need to research each of these chemicals and take them one at a time for a trial period of 1 month minimum!! to even vaguely understand the effect they have on your personal brain chemistry and to work out your perfect dose!

if you simply take all of these chemicals at once how are you going to work out which one makes you maybe dizzy verses which one gives you perfect concentration?
also if you take all of these at once although im no chemist i would bet you will have some adverse reaction or form of receptor damage

why dont you tell us your goal?.. what do you actually want to improve? do you need more energy? or better comprehension of things? are you studying? do you need to improve memory? is your confidence low or do you suffer from add .. etc

[panhedonic]

The best nootropic is sleep. If you don't get that, work on that first!

Your stack is ridiculous and reckless. You can kill yourself or do serious damage. How old are you? Why do you think you NEED this much? You can reach your best performance with 4 or 5 supplements, including vitamins. This and no sleep is a clear sign that you are a bit out of control. You need to calm down and enjoy life, relax and seek what you want one step at a time.

[pamojja]

Will this be harmful to me?

Nobody really can tell. Though with such huge doses of everything at once it is very likely that you experience adverse reactions or interactions, with no way to tell which ingredient caused it. The only way to know and learn is to start slowly with common nutrients for at least a month (if you start from scratch):

Multi
Vitamin b50 complex
Vitamin c 500mg
Vitamin D 2000iu
Vitamin k2 mk7 100mcg
Magnesium malate
100mg ALA (Alpha Lipoic acid)
Fish oil 3.5 g
Creatine mp 5g

On these common doses you're very unlikely unsafe (though my creatinine went too high with already 2 g creatine). However, I would recommend to check for at least a few days with diet software in which nutrients you're actually deficient (ie. cronometer.com). Also check you're 25(OH)D3 serum levels after 3 months to adjust vitamin D3 dose. A hair mineral analysis or whole blood/serum vitamin/mineral tests would be the only way to supplement efficiently, and not to aggravate imbalances any further.

Pantothenic acid 1000mg
4g inositol
Magnesium citrate 240mg
5 Methylcobalamin sublingualy
Zinc 25mg
400mg calcium carbonate
1000mg TMG(Trimethylglycine)

With these you're multiplying what you're already getting from the former, and therefore entering a more slippery area. Personally I only would add these after I'm well for a couple of months with the basics. And then only by slowly increasing doses in the course of a few other months. I never would take calcium unless deficient, where often vitamin D alone already helps to utilize it more efficiently. The other reason is that many supplements come with some calcium, and from the whole of your planned massive stack, this could easily add up to above 1000 mg calcium (without this additional calcium carbonate).

4200mg phosphatidylcholine
500 mg cdp choline
Alpha gpc 300mg

These add up to about 900 mg of pure choline, without what you already get from the multi and B-complex. In my case I get some tenseness in my chaw already with 500 mg/d supplemented (additional to 700 mg from my diet). Make sure that much is really optimal for you by titrating slowly in the course of months.

Pom40p pomegranate extract
600 mg Artichoke extract
500mg quercetin
250mg resveratrol
150 mg forskolin
Luteolin 150mg
L-theanine 100mg
Phosphatidyl Serine 100mg

Though I do consider these plant extracts beneficial in certain health conditions, and harmless for someone healthy with a good diet, I always would start with the lowest possible dose and increase slowly. Though it would be impractical to add each of the ingredients till now one for one (testing each for weeks before adding the next - by starting low dose with each, and a couple of ingredients each time, a adverse reaction wouldn't be that strong, and possible offenders more easier to identify.

Pregnelone 50mg

Only take hormone precursors when you indeed show deficiency in tests. An exceptions might by low dose melatonin for difficulties falling asleep. How old are you?

500mg phenylalanine
Glutamic Acid 500mg
Glycine 3g induces sleep

Such amounts would be easier to get from less processed food, like whey protein of gelatin. You probably already get multiple times of these amino acids from the food you eat.

Lithium orotate 5mg at night

Hair mineral analysis and whole blood levels showed higher levels in my case without supplementing any. Are you sure?

500mg lions mane mushroom
Ginkgo biloba 750mg
Jatamansi 500mg
100mg ginseng
500mg bacopa
Ashwagandha 750mg

Now with adaptogens/ayurvedics I would indeed add each separate to know the effects, and be enabled to adjust doses (no lab tests for those..). Ginkgo biloba isn't a extract? As a extract I would consider that definitely a overdose.

1g Acetylcarnitine
700mg SAMe
250mg Uridine monophosphate
1g sulbutimine
1200mg piracetam
750mg oxiracetam
800mg aniracetam
Pramiracetam 500mg

By now many months have passed. Your mental functions improved, realized the importance of good sleep, active lifestyle and diet, you may find 800 mg piracetam or 100 mg sulbutiamine is all you need, if anything at all.

20 mg DMAA (1,3-dimethylamylamine)
50 mg noopept
Methylene blue 250mg
Adderal xr 10mg (possibly changed out for straterra 25mg)
Lexapro 2.5mg
Guanfacine 1mg

No experience with these. Would you like to expand for what they are?

Dextrose 5g

Goosh, I try to optimize by keeping my blood sugar as low as possible. Why anyone would supplement with dextrose? Are you exercising?

4 g (DHA) Docosahexaenoic acid

It takes longer to get blood levels of omega-3s up. And 4 g/d of pure DHA additional to the 3 g fishoil you already take would certainly help with that (that is, if you don't eat any fish at all..). However, if you're intent on this the long run get your omega-3 index tested. And don't forget fat-soluble antioxidants, like Astaxanthin..

[brainmaker]

I am just responding to this part of your post, I will respond to the rest of it later

20 mg DMAA (1,3-dimethylamylamine) helps clear brain fog, help with my sleep apnea, and gives very good motivation even at this low dose.
50 mg noopept it enhances mood, work becomes seemingly effortless, and helps with comprehension
Methylene blue 250mg I'm taking this out because I find it to be dangerous causing Alzheimer's like symptoms. 
Adderal xr 5mg helps with focus. I'm keeping the dose low because I am afraid of this mixing negativly with everything else
Lexapro 2.5mg taking this evil thing out.
Guanfacine 1mg this seems to reduce impulsivity, which was a problem I have. It seems like it might actually have a negative effect so for the time being I am going to put it away.


Thanks for helping me so much pamojja

I am just responding to this part of your post, I will respond to the rest of it later

20 mg DMAA (1,3-dimethylamylamine) helps clear brain fog, help with my sleep apnea, and gives very good motivation even at this low dose.
50 mg noopept it enhances mood, work becomes seemingly effortless, and helps with comprehension
Methylene blue 250mg I'm taking this out because I find it to be dangerous causing Alzheimer's like symptoms. 
Adderal xr 5mg helps with focus. I'm keeping the dose low because I am afraid of this mixing negativly with everything else
Lexapro 2.5mg taking this evil thing out.
Guanfacine 1mg this seems to reduce impulsivity, which was a problem I have. It seems like it might actually have a negative effect so for the time being I am going to put it away.


Thanks for helping me so much pamojja

[nowayout]

So what is "biaccidentally"? With two accidents instead of one?

[brainmaker]

Yes I'm aware the word doesn't exist. I only want to kill myself one way. If I do it two way I'll look stupid.
Thanks for your helpful comment viveutvivas

[brainmaker]

HERE IS THE UPDATED STACK:


600 mg Artichoke extract
500mg quercetin
250mg resveratrol
150 mg forskolin
20 mg DMAA (1,3-dimethylamylamine)
2000mg phosphatidylcholine
250mg Uridine monophosphate
4 g (DHA) Docosahexaenoic acid
50 mg noopept
1g Acetylcarnitine
500mg lions mane mushroom
700mg piracetam
250mg oxiracetam
250mg aniracetam
100mg calcium carbonate
Luteolin 150mg
500mg phenylalanine
Pramiracetam 150mg
250mg cdp choline
500mg bacopa
Ashwagandha 750mg
Fish oil 3.5 g
Phosphatidyl Serine 100mg
700mg SAMe
Creatine mp 5g
Dextrose 5g
Glutamic Acid 500mg
Vitamin b50 complex
4g inositol
Adderal xr 3mg
Pregnelone 50mg
Jatamansi 500mg
Alpha gpc 150mg
L-theanine 100mg
100mg ALA (Alpha Lipoic acid)
Vitamin c 500mg
Zinc 25mg
Magnesium citrate 240mg
300mg sulbutimine
200mg modafinil
5mg Methylcobalamin sublingualy
1000mg TMG(Trimethylglycine)
100mg ginseng
Glycine 3g induces sleep
Pantothenic acid 1000mg
3mg astaxanthin

WHAT ARE THE DOSAGES I SHOULD BE TAKING OF THE FOLLOWING?
Ginkgo biloba (I am using the leaf powder)
Lithium orotate
Multi vitamin
Vitamin D 2000iu
Vitamin k2 mk7
Pom40p pomegranate extract
Magnesium malate


Thanks for everyones help. Please continue helping me edit the stack. Is what I have posted above safe to take daily?

Edited by brainmaker, 11 October 2012 - 09:42 PM.

[pamojja]

Thanks for the clarification.

As I already wrote, you very likely will experience strong adverse reactions if you start with everything full doses at once. The most likely being that you throw it up again, because you wont be able to stomach that much not used to. Though that will help you to stay clear of any additional or worse adverse effects

It's impossible to give exact dosages because bio-individuality and different nutrient status. 2000 IU of Vitamin D could be to much - or more likely much too less to reach healthy 25(OH)D serum levels. Nobody is able to read your serum level via a crystal ball, you will have to spent the 30 bucks for this lab test yourself

Of course, if you're unwilling to start with lowest doses of each and patiently titrate to your optimal dose, you could always use dosage ranges available on the net. That way you at least get the optimal dose of ..someone else

Some sources:

http://lpi.oregonsta...ontentnuts.html
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/
http://www.mskcc.org...about-herbs#All
http://healthlibrary...&chunkiid=33802
http://www.acu-cell.com

But beware, these common dosage ranges couldn't possibly apply to your stack. The synergies and/or antagonism of so many ingredients thrown into your obviously out of balance system has never been tested before. You're exploring unknown lands, proceed cautiously.since you will have to live with the consequences alone. No well meant advisor will be able to bear your pain if it turns wrong. Go slow and learn along that way discerning.

[brainmaker]

In a month or so I will start posting the effect of this stack

[Kwerl]

Are you actually plan to mix this, rather than taking them one by one?

If you haven't already done so, I strongly recommend checking the drug interactions on each medication on the list. If you really haven't checked it, based off my intuitive guess, it would be quite surprising if there are no interactions with negative effects, hopefully it won't be fatal. If you did, remember that not all the possible interactions are listed, so they might still interact. I advice you to check with your doctor. Even things like vitamins might interact with certain drugs.

Also, I advice you to take them one by one and see which ones have effect on you. Reducing the list would minimize the risk.

P.S. You forgot to include caffeine.

[brainmaker]

No one has said these specific things wouldn't interact negatively with each other in such a manor that could be fatal. If someone see's any two items on the list that will conflict in such a way then please inform me of such things.

[Symbiosisneurocircuit]

That stack is a bad idea.

If you take it you will get ill.

Probably you will have a psychotic episode, with short term goldfish memory.

However taking it will help you understand how foolish you were to ignore the advice of other posters here, and your subsequent hospitalisation could prove to be a pivotal life changing event which will help you grow up

Make sure you have good health insurance.
Cause about 1hr after you take your 1st dose of all that you may feel like calling an ambulance.

Sulbutiamine cannot be taken on a daily basis it will stop working
Pram has tolerance issues
All that choline will zonk you out with a cluster headache
I hate to think what weird compounds will be created mixing all that together with the acid in your gut.
Have you tried uridine on its own?
The amp will counteract the modafinil (from experience)
God knows how the other stuff will potentiate all this, I see a panic attack/hypertensive crisis as the likely outcome, problem is the doctors won't dare give you anything to chill you out for fear of adverse interactions.

All these drugs will not work cumulatively. Sustainability is key.

Take care