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Tianeptine: Great experience so far, but long term?

tianeptine withdrawal

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#1 VICREP

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 12:17 AM


Hi Guys

 

I have been taking Tianeptine for the past ~ 5 weeks at 10-15 mg x 3 daily. I'm taking hoping to reverse my severe stress induced dysthymia, generalized anxiety, and Social anxiety. 

 

The results have been outstanding. My mood is stable and optimistic, I no longer have GAD symptoms or obsessive negative thoughts. My appetite is finally coming back.

 

The only side effects I have noticed is some fatigue, loss in motivation, and 'numbing of libido'. I say numbing in that my libido is still there but it's somewhat duller. I put this down to it's opioid agonism. 

 

Now I'm a bit confused what happens after I stop taking the medication. Since it is an opioid agonist can I expect some harsh withdrawal?  


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#2 jonnyD

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 07:11 AM

You will probably not get any issues on such low doses. Maybe if you take it for years.
Higher doses can be pretty addictive after a short time.

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#3 PowerfulP

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 08:46 AM

I am feeling an incredible sense of well-being after increasing my tianeptine dose slightly to just 40mg. First time stack with low dose kratom. P21 was taken 12 hours ago for the second time ever. 

 

The effect is profound. Such a rare experience, it is worth documenting.

 

I was expecting minimal anxiety relief. However, what I got was the deepest sense of well-being and connectedness experienced in years. Euphoria feels akin to MDMA (first-time) or phenibut (first-time recreational dose of 3.5g) multiplied by ten. 

 

A rare profound sense of joy. Heart feels cradled in warmth. Absolutely clearheaded, focused and motivated. Very social and empathetic, yet content to sit alone. 

 
It feels like my soul is smiling. 
 
 
 

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#4 PowerfulP

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 08:54 AM

I've also been using it for about a month, but only at 12.5mg dosages a couple times per day when I remember.

 

I also note the decrease in negative intrusive thoughts and reduction in libido. 

 

I have no fatigue. Feel more awake than normal. An increase in motivation.

 

Almost hypomanic. Not quite there, but not far below. The positivity is almost pushy though. Almost giddy. Although 40mg is not incredibly high, I do not plan to dose this high often in the future. It clearly amounts to a recreational dose for me. 

 

All my PAWS symptoms from tapering off of benzos is gone though. No more anhedonia, anxiety, depression, depersonalization, derealization, memory issues. I am able to just "be in the moment" more easily. This has been a pleasant discovery in my ongoing diligent search for benzo PAWS relief. P21 seems to hold some promise as well. 


Edited by PowerfulP, 30 September 2014 - 08:58 AM.

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#5 Flex

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 11:04 AM

I guess the lipido reduction could be caused by Dopamine d2 receptor reduction.

Just google Tianeptine + D2 receptor

 

But I believe this is a reversible process


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#6 DaneV

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 11:38 PM

My experience with tianeptine is that it worked very well (against my generalized/social anxiety and dysthemia) for 2-3 months and then just stopped working. Hope this doesn`t happen to you.

After that, I tried increasing my dosage until eventually I was taking 9x12.5mg daily. Because even at those dosages it didn`t help me anymore, I decided to quit taking it. I had no withdrawal or any other ill effects due to abrupt cessation of this drug.

 

I would kill to have my initial effects (from week 2 to 10) of tianeptine permanently. Never did I feel such a clean and solid relief from a drug before. Things just felt "right".


Edited by DaneV, 30 September 2014 - 11:44 PM.


#7 VICREP

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 12:16 AM

"Effect of repeated treatment with tianeptine and fluoxetine on central dopamine D2/D3 receptors"

Source: http://journals.lww....tine_and.4.aspx

That study claims that Tianeptine decreased the level of mRNA encoding for D2 receptors, and also increases the functional responsiveness of D2 and D3 receptors.
What does this mean?

It has me worried since I know the vital role these receptors play in sociability and libido. Both areas I wanted improved before tianeptine treatment.

Edited by VICREP, 01 October 2014 - 12:17 AM.


#8 Fenix_

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 03:04 AM

I have been taking tianeptine for over 2 months now and it definitely builds tolerance for me. Once I have to take more than 150mg a day or so to rid myself of anxiety, I will take a short break. I find I have to take a couple days off every couple of weeks. The tolerance is a real issue and I can not see this being a super long term solution. But for time time being, I am not seeing any withdrawals and the only weird effects I get are occasional blurred vision and irritability.



#9 Max Headroom Incident

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 08:59 AM

Been taking tianeptine for two weeks out of each month since February of this year.  Here are my observations:

 

- The initial euphoria is great.  Instant mood lift with the first dose (despite claims that it takes 2-4 weeks to work).

 

- Effects are like a combo of a mild opioid and a stimulant.  Think tramadol but milder and less "dirty". 

 

- Instant euphoric effect fades rather quickly and does not come back with abstinence.

 

- Sustained benefits include increased motivation, physical stamina, clearer cognition and more stable moods.

 

- Side effects = stomach pain, dry mouth, vivid dreams.

 

- No major interactions with other drugs.  Combines well with low doses of amphetamines, codeine, weed, etc. 

 

- No discontinuation syndrome at reasonable medicinal doses.

 

 

Of course this is all subjective.  I feel that tianeptine has helped me recover from benzo withdrawal quicker than I would have otherwise.  It's not the be-all end-all of depression treatment, but it can be a good supplement to whatever else you do to help yourself.

 

 

 


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#10 ovecta

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 01:06 PM

Been taking Tianeptine for about a year now, usually in one 40mg dose around the evening time.

After maybe 3-4 weeks of taking it I noticed my sleep was become more and more disrupted, I didn't have a problem falling asleep but I would wake up within hours and sleep became very fragmented.

Used Mirtazapine to counter this but unfortunately the mirtazapine seemed to block tianeptines anti-depressant properties so I dropped it and settled on melatonin which didn't interfere with it.

There is definitely a distinct difference in the effects with the usual dosages providing subtle mood-lifting and anti-anxiety effects, effects that I actually feel build up with chronic usage, and then there's higher dosages (100mg and upper-ward) which produce opioid-like effects that you can build a tolerance to.

Respect this drug and be sensible with dosing, it's one of the greatest anti-depressants I've come across.



#11 PowerfulP

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 10:47 PM

I have had some rebound depression after discontinuing tianeptine earlier this week. 



#12 AlexCanada

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 09:49 PM

Can taineptine 5mg be taken together with 10mg atomoxetine?         Also plan to possibly start Agomelatine later this week.  Difficult to find information on Tainpetine interactions. Medscape drug interaction checker does not have info



#13 Flex

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 12:39 PM

Look for the package insert. If theres none in english, use the french(since it was mainly and often perscribed there) or german one and translate it.

Like this:

http://www.apotheken...ten-AC8441.html

 

According to this, You should be cautious when using it with mao inhibitors, Mianserine can decreases its effects and for the others its seemingly unknown.

The just point out the fact that it can have interactions with other medications.


Edited by Flex, 03 June 2015 - 12:41 PM.

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#14 AlexCanada

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 06:00 PM

I'm not sure how to translate that page. Unfortunately I do not have any package inserts as I got my tianpetine from a nootropic shop.

 

 

If 5mg taineptine is taken with 10-20mg parnate would this be serious?  Or likely just a need for caution?  Perhaps 2.5mg would be reasonable.            I started Parnate few days ago and could really use the chill inducing calm peaceful effects of taineptine to counter the intense aggression and onset hostility I been feeling. 


Edited by AlexCanada, 06 June 2015 - 06:01 PM.


#15 Flex

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 10:59 PM

google translator, though I didnt tried exact that page.

 

I would start with a low dose but no guarantee in regards of any interactions, incl. as celular effects i.e. each one does nothing but the combination has a novel effect which can be good or bad.

 

dont want to be a scaremonger, its just my amateurish opinion.


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#16 Fenix_

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 01:27 AM

Does the normal therapeutic dose of 12.5mg tid tend to cause tolerance issues often? I am going to give it another go, this time with self-control and a strict dosing schedule (via a titrated dropper bottle solution).



#17 fntms

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 02:26 AM

This is the official dosage which has been well studied and has been in place since the drug's beginnings. It works...
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#18 fntms

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 02:28 AM

What solution will you be using? I used 100% pg but I am not very pleased with the result (taste, slight burning sensation). Water would work but would not be stable (bacteria can develop).

#19 Fenix_

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Posted 07 June 2015 - 08:25 PM

I was going to use PG, it seems to work for ceretropic. Do you think any kind of sweetener could be added? I am not too worried about taste though.



#20 crazepharmacist

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 01:11 AM

The initial euphoria was indeed out of this world. It unfortunately dissipated after a week and hasn't returned. I've been experimenting with low dose naltrexone at night in hopes to sensitize the opoid receptors to tianeptine during the day in an effort to bring back or even sustain that initial euphoria but it's been a no go. I guess it's not worth chasing.

#21 Dichotohmy

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 03:44 AM

I tried researching a good solvent for Tianeptine powder about two years ago when I first tried it, but found nothing. My intuition told me this was a silly thing to even wonder about. 

 

I bought 1/2 ounce about 1.5 years ago that I've been keeping in distilled water, and I have had zero problems with the solution I made. To be fair, I've kept it under refrigeration. There has been no loss of potency for the solvated drug. In my experience, the solid is soluble to around 50mg per ml of water.


Edited by Dichotohmy, 08 June 2015 - 03:47 AM.


#22 Heisenburger

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 04:30 AM

Definitely instantly soluble in DMSO—no question about it. Retains potency for at least a week; so far that is the longest I've let it sit. This was at room temperature. I'll try letting it sit for a month soon and see if it still holds its form. If it doesn't, I'll try refrigerating it and see if that has any effect. It turns yellow after a few hours in solution.


Edited by Heisenburger, 08 June 2015 - 04:30 AM.


#23 fntms

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 04:48 PM

Euphoria is not how I would describe the effects I had for the first few years (luckily), more like 'normalisation' + drive to do things, anxiety free.
I have noticed that tianeptine is very sensitive to the other stuff that I take which might have a depressive action (too much choline etc...). So in a sense it doesn't 'stack' well (although it does minimize the 'harm' from depressing supps). I wouldn't think the opioid route is the most relevant, given its low affinity. I have been taking tianeptine for years and still get a fairly noticeable effect from 100mg of tramadol for pain for instance.
As for the 'mixer' issue, I suppose pg is acceptable, although I would prefer something smoother (are we certain pg is 100% risk free?)
In any case I have a prescription so don't really need the pg solution unless I want more than 3x12.5mg (or run out of the pills), which I don't think is sustainable long term (too much stimulation).

Edited by fntms, 08 June 2015 - 04:49 PM.


#24 crazepharmacist

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 06:53 PM

Euphoria is not how I would describe the effects I had for the first few years (luckily), more like 'normalisation' + drive to do things, anxiety free.
I have noticed that tianeptine is very sensitive to the other stuff that I take which might have a depressive action (too much choline etc...). So in a sense it doesn't 'stack' well (although it does minimize the 'harm' from depressing supps). I wouldn't think the opioid route is the most relevant, given its low affinity. I have been taking tianeptine for years and still get a fairly noticeable effect from 100mg of tramadol for pain for instance.
As for the 'mixer' issue, I suppose pg is acceptable, although I would prefer something smoother (are we certain pg is 100% risk free?)
In any case I have a prescription so don't really need the pg solution unless I want more than 3x12.5mg (or run out of the pills), which I don't think is sustainable long term (too much stimulation).

 

Maybe euphoria was the wrong term to use but rather a warm, fuzzy feeling. It was exactly how I think an opiate would feel. 



#25 Heisenburger

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 07:00 PM

I would describe it as sort of a deep, relaxed contentment.



#26 fntms

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 06:20 AM

Wouldn't bacteriostatic water be the best solvent and allow safe medium term storage? Is this not the usual mixer in rc products?

#27 pushpull

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 08:05 AM

Hi, I've been taking Tianeptine for around 1 1/2 month on 3x12.5mg for anxiety (and mild depression due to anxiety issues). Gotta say most things seems easier in my daily life. It has not completely removed my GAD but it effects me way less. One thing that sucks is that it works for such a short period of time so I can absolutely see the potential of abuse unless you are strict with yourself. Personally I've never gone above the standard 3x12.5 therapeutic dosing.

 

Regarding side-effects there is one thing that is bothering me a lot: I've never had issues with hair thinning or hair-loss in any way and I'm only 37. Both my grand-father and father had thick, strong hair until the day they died so I doubt I have hair-loss in my family. Yet I've for the first time in my life been noticing dropping a lot of hair straws when combing my hair. Nothing else has changed in my regime (medications or food), the only other medication I use is low dosages of oxazepam twice a day, which I've been doing for more than 1 year, and have been taking on and off the last 10+ years (with no hair-loss symptoms). The strange thing is that there is very little info on Tianeptine and hair-loss to be found when searching and it doesn't seem to be listed as a common side effect. Has anyone else experienced this, or is there some kind of logical explanation to hair-loss due to the way Tianeptine works? And is there any supplement or something I can take to combat potential hair-loss? When you've finally found something good it sucks if I gotta go off Tianeptine due to this. I've tried most of the anti-depressants out there and I've had BAD side-effects (i.e. non-existing libido on pretty much anything, which sucks) with no relief on everything except Tianeptine. I see none of the side-effects I've had on other anti-depressants...but I really dislike the idea of loosing my hair :S



#28 Teresa Thomason

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 04:18 PM

Pushpull, I believe baldness is inherited from the mother's side of the family, not the father's. If you want to know if you are likely to go bald, you should look at your mother's father. As for Tianeptine being a possible cause, I have seen anything like that on any of the websites I've visited. And I've been researching this drug a lot during the past few weeks. Good luck with the hair!

 



#29 Jackhill41

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 10:29 PM

Pushpull, I believe baldness is inherited from the mother's side of the family, not the father's. If you want to know if you are likely to go bald, you should look at your mother's father. As for Tianeptine being a possible cause, I have seen anything like that on any of the websites I've visited. And I've been researching this drug a lot during the past few weeks. Good luck with the hair!

 


I believe the idea that a man's baldness is attributable to his mother's side of the family is a myth.  Perhaps there is an association of some kind, but I know more than a few guys (including two brothers) who have gone bald despite our maternal grandfather dying with a thick head of hair.

 

I recently took Tianeptine for 6 weeks.  Solid experience overall, but I too noticed that it seemed to exacerbate the hair loss to which I am already susceptible.


Edited by Jackhill41, 12 August 2015 - 10:29 PM.


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#30 contraband

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 11:25 AM

I do not understand the mechanism of tianeptine. What benefits would depleting synaptic serotonin have (I read somewhere that tianeptine is an SSRE, selective serotonin reuptake enhancer)?







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