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Why religion is against the biological immortality

religion immortality

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#61 serp777

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 09:29 PM

 

...i haven't graduated college yet...

You thoroughly answered the question.

...but I could possibly be apart of that group in the future as an engineer.

No, sorry. I asked where you are NOW. A potential future wouldn't be grounds one's reprieve. Anyone could use this excuse, whether or not they are correct. And this is a shame because potential isn't always easy to identify. Albert Einstein dropped out of college and was working a dead-end menial job. In accordance with your stipulations, he wouldn't have made the cut during that period in his life.

I hope you understand the point that I am making. Thus far, it seems that you don't. Life isn't as simple and clear cut as you are making it out to be. And you yourself are clearly on the outside looking in, on the basis of your own stipulations. Sorry, you don't make the grade.

 

 

The point you are making is moot. Nothing about a merit based system is easy and clear cut obviously. And i don't know why you're so hung up in one particular instant of time--sure, when working a dead end menial job Einstein wouldn't have received immortality, but once he published the theory of relativity all that would have changed. That's the entire point about a merit based system. Sufficient merits are awarded with immortality.

 

Furthermore, no system regarding immortality is going to be clear cut and easy. A merit based system is obviously complicated because you need to have a variety of government committees and world leaders come together to make an equation or find qualitative standards which determines whether a person becomes immortal or not. Anyways, do you think it would be easy or simple or clear cut to have everyone or no one receive immortality? What system do you propose that would be superior? That's right, you haven't provided any.

 

And finally, you're still not addressing the fact that the merit based system would be the most ideal/efficient. It would avoid overpopulation but preserve the best people in society.
 


Edited by serp777, 09 February 2015 - 09:30 PM.


#62 shadowhawk

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 01:15 AM

Who have been the great killers.  One of the best sources for stats on killing is RJ Rummel’s research.  http://www.hawaii.ed...kills/NOTE1.HTM
http://www.hawaii.ed...rkills/MEGA.HTM
http://www.hawaii.ed...rkills/MEGA.HTM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide
http://www.scaruffi....ics/dictat.html

I also suggest his book which also documents the killing of millions by Atheist Regimes.  http://www.amazon.co...l/dp/1560009276
http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0674076087

Atheists have been the big killers.
http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0674076087


Presently 80% of persecutions are in rge world is against Christians
http://en.wikipedia....n_of_Christians





 



#63 serp777

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 07:00 AM

Who have been the great killers.  One of the best sources for stats on killing is RJ Rummel’s research.  http://www.hawaii.ed...kills/NOTE1.HTM
http://www.hawaii.ed...rkills/MEGA.HTM
http://www.hawaii.ed...rkills/MEGA.HTM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide
http://www.scaruffi....ics/dictat.html

I also suggest his book which also documents the killing of millions by Atheist Regimes.  http://www.amazon.co...l/dp/1560009276
http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0674076087

Atheists have been the big killers.
http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0674076087


Presently 80% of persecutions are in rge world is against Christians
http://en.wikipedia....n_of_Christians





 

 

Classifying them as atheists, in terms of what they don't believe, is extremely stupid. Mao Zae dong and Stalin both didn't believe in fairies in addition to many other ruthless dictators; therefore a-fairyists have murdered the most people.

 

You might ask why religions are responsible for various killings in that case. Well first it makes sense to classify people by what they do believe. Second, the killings were committed in the name of religion--E.G. the crusades.

 

Finally, there's something called the cult of personality, where dictators use propaganda to portray themselves as God like, heroic figures. This is superstitious and not atheistic any way you slice it.

"Hitler was usually depicted as a heroic, god-like figure, loved, feared and respected by the German people."

 

"

Nikita Khrushchev recalled Marx's criticism in his 1956 "Secret Speech" denouncing Joseph Stalin and his cult of personality to the 20th Party Congress:[60]

Comrades, the cult of the individual acquired such monstrous size chiefly because Stalin himself, using all conceivable methods, supported the glorification of his own person.... One of the most characteristic examples of Stalin's self-glorification and of his lack of even elementary modesty is the edition of his Short Biography, which was published in 1948.

This book is an expression of the most dissolute flattery, an example of making a man into a godhead, of transforming him into an infallible sage"

 

A true atheist would reject any notion of these leaders being a god like heroic figure or an infallible sage. Personality cults resemble religion more than they do atheism.

 

http://en.wikipedia...._of_personality

 

A realistic "atheist" state would be a secular society following the format established by utilitarianism, etc.

 


Edited by serp777, 10 February 2015 - 07:01 AM.


#64 shadowhawk

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 08:28 PM

What a tired old Atheist ploy to avoid responsibility for the acts of atheists.  My cat doesn't believe either so he must be an atheist.  This has been discussed over and again in the topic. "Is there evidence for Atheism."  See the discussions there.  :(



#65 serp777

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 09:08 PM

What a tired old Atheist ploy to avoid responsibility for the acts of atheists.  My cat doesn't believe either so he must be an atheist.  This has been discussed over and again in the topic. "Is there evidence for Atheism."  See the discussions there.  :(

 

And dont forget the tired old religious act of pretending that personality cults don't exist as well as trying to ignore a variety of religious wars by acting as if the non existent atheist "group" is somehow responsible. I guess a-fairyists are now also the group which has murdered the most. Your cat analogy is crude and irrelevant as well. ANd im not going to go to your thread because the premise is absurd. Why would you need evidence to not believe in something? Do i need evidence now to think that fairies are unlikely?



#66 shadowhawk

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 09:13 PM

Atheists doon't exist because they don't believe anything. :laugh:



#67 serp777

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 09:22 PM

Atheists doon't exist because they don't believe anything. :laugh:

 

A-fairyists are now a group. They're opening up a new club. Stalin, Hitler, and Mao, as well as the crusaders didn't believe in fairies, and therefore a-fairyists murdered the most people. Brilliant!  :laugh:

 

Uh oh i guess you're apart of the a-fairyists too. Wow you must be responsible for the actions of all other a fairyists.


Edited by serp777, 10 February 2015 - 09:23 PM.


#68 shadowhawk

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 10:38 PM

What nonsense.  Just because you don't believe in something does not make you an atheist.  What you want to avoid is the implications of the great atheist empires of the last century that killed hundreds of millions of people.  We see shades of this in your above posts where you would deny life to people who are not like you.  But, then you don't exist - right?



#69 serp777

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 11:08 PM

What nonsense.  Just because you don't believe in something does not make you an atheist.  What you want to avoid is the implications of the great atheist empires of the last century that killed hundreds of millions of people.  We see shades of this in your above posts where you would deny life to people who are not like you.  But, then you don't exist - right?

 

Are you unable to read the evidence of my posts? Did you not see the obvious depiction personality cults in your so called "great atheist empires" which do not resemble atheism at all? Hitler, Stalin, and Mao all had personality cults where they are portrayed as God like deity figures or supreme beings with elements of the supernatural. Are you aware of what an atheist is? And also, I think you mean the great a-celestial teapot empires of the history of humanity who have also been responsible for pretty much every 1st degree murder.

 

"We see shades of this in your above posts where you would deny life to people who are not like you."

This is a pure strawman and completely wrong. I advocated for a merit based solution to determine who deserves immortality or not. I never once said people have to be like me to gain immortality. Under my criteria I would not even receive immortality at this time. Again, you would condemn the world to destruction by giving everyone immortality therefore leading to overpopulation. You would lead to the destruction of the planet if you were in charge. At least my course of action is sensible and preserves the best minds of society--those who can contribute the most and make life better for everyone. Thankfully you're not a world leader making these decisions.


Edited by serp777, 10 February 2015 - 11:09 PM.

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#70 shadowhawk

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 02:18 AM

What evidence.  You must have a thought disorder.  I have shown evidence of hundreds of millions killed by atheists whom you deny even exist.  shall we see if there are any atheist organizations?  :|o



#71 serp777

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 02:55 AM

What evidence.  You must have a thought disorder.  I have shown evidence of hundreds of millions killed by atheists whom you deny even exist.  shall we see if there are any atheist organizations?  :|o

 

Ah yes, the guy with negative 18 rep suggests I have a thought disorder. Its apparent that you are unable to process basic arguments and have some diminished cognitive capacity. i could recommend some supplements to assist you.

Clearly you cannot fathom what a personality cult is or you're blind and somehow missed my post that you replied to. Its when the leader is portrayed as a supreme, or God like being to the people through propaganda. Mao, Stalin, and Hitler all had personality cults. Atheist regimes aren't compatible with personality cults. Personality cult isn't atheistic at all because it contains superstitious elements. If anything its just more deaths due to superstition. I quoted evidence of the personality cults earlier and i'm not going to repost it just because of your inefficient hippocampus or inability to use the scroll function.

 

Also your continued use of strawman continues to baffle me. Atheists exist. Atheists as one big group is about as ridiculous as saying a-fairyist are one big group. Again you think that a-fairyists are the group responsible for the most murders. Those dang a-fairyists, so evil.

 

And its incredibly stupid to say that all of those hundreds of millions were killed by so called atheist regimes because they were atheists. Correlation does not mean causation. Mao, stalin, and hitler were basically dictators. Maybe its because they were dictators that lead to millions of deaths. Or maybe you should blame communism and facism making tyrannical leaders. Finally even if you could show that atheists did kill more altogether, it wouldn't matter at all. It wouldn't have anything to do with religion being against biological immortality. We've both been off topic but you're the one who brought it up.


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#72 shadowhawk

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 10:50 PM

Serp777: “Clearly you cannot fathom what a personality cult is or you're blind and somehow missed my post that you replied to. Its when the leader is portrayed as a supreme, or God like being to the people through propaganda. Mao, Stalin, and Hitler all had personality cults. Atheist regimes aren't compatible with personality cults. Personality cult isn't atheistic at all because it contains superstitious elements. If anything its just more deaths due to superstition. I quoted evidence of the personality cults earlier and i'm not going to repost it just because of your inefficient hippocampus or inability to use the scroll function.”

There are no Atheists and though Communism is Atheist and claims to be, there are none.  What an ignorant joke.  Atheists don’t have cult followings.  You can’t find any atheist leaders. :) I could list dozens of them and have in the, “Evidence for atheism” topic.

 “Also your continued use of strawman continues to baffle me. Atheists exist. Atheists as one big group is about as ridiculous as saying a-fairyist are one big group. Again you think that a-fairyists are the group responsible for the most murders. Those dang a-fairyists, so evil.”

Again, there are big groups of atheists.  Google Atheists organizations.  It is not the same as saying a-fairyist.  Again this is a straw man and nonsense.  

 “And its incredibly stupid to say that all of those hundreds of millions were killed by so called atheist regimes because they were atheists. Correlation does not mean causation. Mao, stalin, and hitler were basically dictators. Maybe its because they were dictators that lead to millions of deaths. Or maybe you should blame communism and facism making tyrannical leaders. Finally even if you could show that atheists did kill more altogether, it wouldn't matter at all. It wouldn't have anything to do with religion being against biological immortality. We've both been off topic but you're the one who brought it up.”  

An Atheist regime is officially Atheist and this was standard for Marxism.  Still is.  Your position, if it was true, “ it wouldn’t matter at all.”  Yes, you would deny life to the religious and the non elete as expressed in your past posts here.  Where have we heard this before?

Indeed they were atheist dictators but you haven’t even started to list them all.  Atheists have killed more people than any other group.  Islam has killed hundreds of millions but they don’t compare with the modern Atheists.



#73 serp777

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 11:40 PM

Serp777: “Clearly you cannot fathom what a personality cult is or you're blind and somehow missed my post that you replied to. Its when the leader is portrayed as a supreme, or God like being to the people through propaganda. Mao, Stalin, and Hitler all had personality cults. Atheist regimes aren't compatible with personality cults. Personality cult isn't atheistic at all because it contains superstitious elements. If anything its just more deaths due to superstition. I quoted evidence of the personality cults earlier and i'm not going to repost it just because of your inefficient hippocampus or inability to use the scroll function.”

There are no Atheists and though Communism is Atheist and claims to be, there are none.  What an ignorant joke.  Atheists don’t have cult followings.  You can’t find any atheist leaders. :) I could list dozens of them and have in the, “Evidence for atheism” topic.

 “Also your continued use of strawman continues to baffle me. Atheists exist. Atheists as one big group is about as ridiculous as saying a-fairyist are one big group. Again you think that a-fairyists are the group responsible for the most murders. Those dang a-fairyists, so evil.”

Again, there are big groups of atheists.  Google Atheists organizations.  It is not the same as saying a-fairyist.  Again this is a straw man and nonsense.  

 “And its incredibly stupid to say that all of those hundreds of millions were killed by so called atheist regimes because they were atheists. Correlation does not mean causation. Mao, stalin, and hitler were basically dictators. Maybe its because they were dictators that lead to millions of deaths. Or maybe you should blame communism and facism making tyrannical leaders. Finally even if you could show that atheists did kill more altogether, it wouldn't matter at all. It wouldn't have anything to do with religion being against biological immortality. We've both been off topic but you're the one who brought it up.”  

An Atheist regime is officially Atheist and this was standard for Marxism.  Still is.  Your position, if it was true, “ it wouldn’t matter at all.”  Yes, you would deny life to the religious and the non elete as expressed in your past posts here.  Where have we heard this before?

Indeed they were atheist dictators but you haven’t even started to list them all.  Atheists have killed more people than any other group.  Islam has killed hundreds of millions but they don’t compare with the modern Atheists.

 

"Atheists don't have cult followings."
 

And that's exactly why calling those regimes atheist regimes is illogical. You haven't attempted to argue against the evidence i posted of personality cults in these so called atheist governments. I fail to understand how you can deny these personality cults in the face of evidence.

 

http://en.wikipedia...._of_personality

 

"It is not the same as saying a-fairyist.  Again this is a straw man and nonsense. "

It is the same as saying a-fairyist. Its classifying people by the lack of belief in something. Again this no strawman and is perfectly sensible. You certainly haven't shown any distinction.

 

"Yes, you would deny life to the religious and the non elete as expressed in your past posts here.  Where have we heard this before?"

We've heard it in your same ridiculous strawman everytime, that's where. You keep inventing absolute garbage about my alleged position. Its not denying life by not granting immortality for starters. Everyone is capable of living their naturally determined life. Religious and non elite people would have the opportunity to be immortal if they had sufficient merit. Albert Einstein is a good example--he was no part of the elite, and yet a merit based system would grant immortality. You keep making the same foolish claims about my position. Read my posts before commenting so as to avoid looking childish.

 

And you would rather have everyone receive immortality so world over population could kill us all. That makes you a kind of genocidal maniac because you would rather see the world destroyed in order to preserve your so called "ethics".

 

"Indeed they were atheist dictators but you haven’t even started to list them all.  Atheists have killed more people than any other group.  Islam has killed hundreds of millions but they don’t compare with the modern Atheists."

 

No they weren't atheist dictators. They had personality cults and portrayed themselves as supreme, god like beings. An atheist wouldn't believe in a supreme, God like dictator. They also killed in the name of communism.

 

"Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness. People were killed in communist nations for a lot of different reasons. Some were communists who disagreed with those in power and were killed because of that. Some were anti-communists opposed the government and were killed for that. Some were simply in the way or inconvenient and were killed for that. These are political disagreements that people were being killed over, not murder in the name of atheism. But weren't a lot of people killed because they were Christian? Certainly but not simply because they were Christian. Communists typically regarded religious organizations as a hinderance towards the creation of a worker's paradise. Some religious groups also opposed the communists. Once again, we are generally looking at political issues, not a question of atheism."

 

http://atheism.about...heismKilled.htm

 

One estimation puts the deaths from Crusades at 36 million over a 1700 year time period, This seems to conflict with estimations that the Spanish invasion of Central and South America during the Crusades killed as many as 100 million Inca people and other native Americans; then there was the Holocaust, another 4 to 12 million deaths depending on who you listen to... WWI had an estimated 100 million deaths, and the initial conflict was sparked by Russian Orthodoxy declaring war on Austria which Catholic Germany saw as an immanent threat.
That alone is roughly 250 million people, and many conflicts of the ancient world from Egypt to the borders of India was religious based, over the centuries hundreds of millions maybe even a billion or so people have died either as a direct result of religion or as a collateral consequence.

 

http://en.wikipedia....i/Religious_war


Edited by serp777, 11 February 2015 - 11:40 PM.


#74 shadowhawk

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 02:04 AM

Atheist regimes are founded on a atheist world view which is the world view of Marxism.  However you do not have to be a Marxist to be an Atheist.  Atheism has been defined and argued in the topic, “Evidence for Atheism.”  I am not going to repeat it here where it is off topic.  If you want to debate it there, I would be more than happy to do so.
 
There are many leading atheist personalities today just as there have been in the past.  Google it, but surely you are not that ignorant of them.

Here again you repeat the same gibberish.  Who decides who has sufficient merit?  Sick, but typical.!

"We've heard it in your same ridiculous strawman everytime, that's where. You keep inventing absolute garbage about my alleged position. Its not denying life by not granting immortality for starters. Everyone is capable of living their naturally determined life. Religious and non elite people would have the opportunity to be immortal if they had sufficient merit. Albert Einstein is a good example--he was no part of the elite, and yet a merit based system would grant immortality. You keep making the same foolish claims about my position. Read my posts before commenting so as to avoid looking childish.

And you would rather have everyone receive immortality so world over population could kill us all. That makes you a kind of genocidal maniac because you would rather see the world destroyed in order to preserve your so called "ethics".

You are going to make sure immortality is only for the elites but the non elites and the religious do not have sufficient merit to live.  I understood you the first time you said this.  What a monsterous view.  We have seen the results of this kind of thinking before.

And then this insanity.
 
“No they weren't atheist dictators. They had personality cults and portrayed themselves as supreme, god like beings. An atheist wouldn't believe in a supreme, God like dictator. They also killed in the name of communism.”

 They were not Atheists, they just claimed to be.  What revisionist baloney.  

How long were the crusades?  You say 1700 years.  Wrong.  The first crusade was launched by Pope Urban II at the Council of Clermont in 1095. There is controversy over the last crusade. “Traditionalists” would end the crusades in 1291 with the fall of the last crusader castle of the Latin Kingdom, the city of Acre (on the northern coast of present-day Israel). “Pluralists” disagree, but one good candidate would be the Spanish Armada of 1588.  So the major part of the crusades lasted a little over 200 years but they were still fighting for about 400 years for the same reasons we are fighting Islamic terrorism today.  The total killed were around one million not 36 million as you claim.  What ignorance..  http://en.wikipedia....s_by_death_toll

On top of this all the lands we now think of as Islamic today were populated by Jews, Christians, Zoroasters, Animists. Hindus and Buddhists.  They are all gone!  Where do you think the millions of people went?

As for Mexico and Latin America, Cortez only had a little over 300 men.  Just in Mexico city there were over two million Aztec warriors.  How did the Spanish win?  Small Pox, the greatest plague in history.  It spread all over the Americas.  If that did not happen the white Europeans would have not concurred the Americas.  The Crusades were of little import to what happened in the Americas.

Russian Orthodoxy did not declare war on Austeria.  I have never seen such bigotry and ignorance.
 
I am not defending some terrible things done in the name of religion, but there is no comparison with the gread Atheist empires of the last century.

 

 



#75 serp777

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 04:12 AM

Atheist regimes are founded on a atheist world view which is the world view of Marxism.  However you do not have to be a Marxist to be an Atheist.  Atheism has been defined and argued in the topic, “Evidence for Atheism.”  I am not going to repeat it here where it is off topic.  If you want to debate it there, I would be more than happy to do so.
 
There are many leading atheist personalities today just as there have been in the past.  Google it, but surely you are not that ignorant of them.

Here again you repeat the same gibberish.  Who decides who has sufficient merit?  Sick, but typical.!

"We've heard it in your same ridiculous strawman everytime, that's where. You keep inventing absolute garbage about my alleged position. Its not denying life by not granting immortality for starters. Everyone is capable of living their naturally determined life. Religious and non elite people would have the opportunity to be immortal if they had sufficient merit. Albert Einstein is a good example--he was no part of the elite, and yet a merit based system would grant immortality. You keep making the same foolish claims about my position. Read my posts before commenting so as to avoid looking childish.

And you would rather have everyone receive immortality so world over population could kill us all. That makes you a kind of genocidal maniac because you would rather see the world destroyed in order to preserve your so called "ethics".

You are going to make sure immortality is only for the elites but the non elites and the religious do not have sufficient merit to live.  I understood you the first time you said this.  What a monsterous view.  We have seen the results of this kind of thinking before.

And then this insanity.
 
“No they weren't atheist dictators. They had personality cults and portrayed themselves as supreme, god like beings. An atheist wouldn't believe in a supreme, God like dictator. They also killed in the name of communism.”

 They were not Atheists, they just claimed to be.  What revisionist baloney.  

How long were the crusades?  You say 1700 years.  Wrong.  The first crusade was launched by Pope Urban II at the Council of Clermont in 1095. There is controversy over the last crusade. “Traditionalists” would end the crusades in 1291 with the fall of the last crusader castle of the Latin Kingdom, the city of Acre (on the northern coast of present-day Israel). “Pluralists” disagree, but one good candidate would be the Spanish Armada of 1588.  So the major part of the crusades lasted a little over 200 years but they were still fighting for about 400 years for the same reasons we are fighting Islamic terrorism today.  The total killed were around one million not 36 million as you claim.  What ignorance..  http://en.wikipedia....s_by_death_toll

On top of this all the lands we now think of as Islamic today were populated by Jews, Christians, Zoroasters, Animists. Hindus and Buddhists.  They are all gone!  Where do you think the millions of people went?

As for Mexico and Latin America, Cortez only had a little over 300 men.  Just in Mexico city there were over two million Aztec warriors.  How did the Spanish win?  Small Pox, the greatest plague in history.  It spread all over the Americas.  If that did not happen the white Europeans would have not concurred the Americas.  The Crusades were of little import to what happened in the Americas.

Russian Orthodoxy did not declare war on Austeria.  I have never seen such bigotry and ignorance.
 
I am not defending some terrible things done in the name of religion, but there is no comparison with the gread Atheist empires of the last century.

 
 

"Here again you repeat the same gibberish.  Who decides who has sufficient merit?  Sick, but typical.!"

 

So it must be impossible to determine merit then. I guess humans have never been able to decide who has merit and who doesn't. World leaders and government committees would determine qualitative and or quantitative standards that would apply equally to everyone. And also, who decides whether no one or everyone receives immortality? You make a decision either way, and if you think otherwise then you're a fool. You're a disgusting person, and a genocidal maniac for wanting to condemn the entire world to a death by overpopulation. Typical.

 

They were communist empires, not atheist empires. You'll never understand what a personality cult is and clearly you have some weird obsession with trying to blame various deaths committed in the name of communism on atheists because you're trying to even the score, I guess, between theists and atheists. However, its the same thing as trying to settle the score between thesists and a-fairyists. Its stupid. There's no difference.

 

" They were not Atheists, they just claimed to be.  What revisionist baloney. "

 

They may have considered themselves an atheist, but they aren't an entire communist nation you woefully ignorant child. Many of the people believed, for example, that Stalin was a supreme being/ deity because Stalin used enough propaganda. This is exactly analogous to North Korea right now where you have a supreme, deified leader. The people believe that their leader is a literal God. This personality cult doesn't resemble atheism whatsoever and neither did the alleged great "atheist" empires like China and the communist Russia. They're simply not compatible with an atheist nation. You continue to deny all of the facts out of sheer ignorance or confirmation bias.

"You say 1700 years."

It was meant to be 700 years as a gross approximation.

 

"As for Mexico and Latin America, Cortez only had a little over 300 men.  Just in Mexico city there were over two million Aztec warriors.  How did the Spanish win?  Small Pox, the greatest plague in history."

You didn't understand the point. The spread of disease was due to more than just 300 men. There were a number of Christian, Spanish conquistadors who explored all over the Americas looking for gold. There weren't any horses in the new world so travel up and down the Americas was limited and the spread of small pox would have been much slower and far less devastating without constant sea incursions due to Christian greed. And you're forgetting about the centuries after where European Christians enslaved native Americans and African Americans, and brought them to the new world to work on plantations. Millions died. Christians  were responsible for all of those deaths because of greed just like how you claim that atheism was responsible for all the deaths in the so called atheist communist empires. The point was to show how terrible your argument was but of course you missed it. I'm sure you'll argue that greed was responsible and not Christianity, to which I'll say communism was responsible, not atheism.

 

Also you've casually forgotten about all of the thousands of ancient wars fought in the name of religion.

"I am not defending some terrible things done in the name of religion, but there is no comparison with the gread Atheist empires of the last century."

A pure blanket assertion. There's no way to calculate exact figures regarding specific death tolls and assigning them as a result of atheism versus communism or greed or revenge or whatever. And you are attempting to defend things done in the name of religion by placing more relative blame to atheism so that religion looks better.


Edited by serp777, 12 February 2015 - 04:14 AM.


#76 shadowhawk

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 09:33 PM

serp777:  So it must be impossible to determine merit then. I guess humans have never been able to decide who has merit and who doesn't. World leaders and government committees would determine qualitative and or quantitative standards that would apply equally to everyone. And also, who decides whether no one or everyone receives immortality? You make a decision either way, and if you think otherwise then you're a fool. You're a disgusting person, and a genocidal maniac for wanting to condemn the entire world to a death by overpopulation. Typical.

They were communist empires, not atheist empires. You'll never understand what a personality cult is and clearly you have some weird obsession with trying to blame various deaths committed in the name of communism on atheists because you're trying to even the score, I guess, between theists and atheists. However, it’s the same thing as trying to settle the score between theists and a-fairyists. Its stupid. There's no difference.”

They were Communist, Atheist, empires.  Atheism has been tried before.  Read Marx and Lenin.

 “They may have considered themselves an atheist, but they aren't an entire communist nation you woefully ignorant child. Many of the people believed, for example, that Stalin was a supreme being/ deity because Stalin used enough propaganda. This is exactly analogous to North Korea right now where you have a supreme, deified leader. The people believe that their leader is a literal God. This personality cult doesn't resemble atheism whatsoever and neither did the alleged great "atheist" empires like China and the communist Russia. They're simply not compatible with an atheist nation. You continue to deny all of the facts out of sheer ignorance or confirmation bias.”

Sure there were people in the empires who were not Atheists but the empires were officially atheist and so was their leaders.  Theists were their special target.  Millions died.

“You didn't understand the point. The spread of disease was due to more than just 300 men. There were a number of Christian, Spanish conquistadors who explored all over the Americas looking for gold. There weren't any horses in the new world so travel up and down the Americas was limited and the spread of small pox would have been much slower and far less devastating without constant sea incursions due to Christian greed. And you're forgetting about the centuries after where European Christians enslaved native Americans and African Americans, and brought them to the new world to work on plantations. Millions died. Christians  were responsible for all of those deaths because of greed just like how you claim that atheism was responsible for all the deaths in the so called atheist communist empires. The point was to show how terrible your argument was but of course you missed it. I'm sure you'll argue that greed was responsible and not Christianity, to which I'll say communism was responsible, not atheism.”

The small pox epidemic was started by one black slave that had helped the local Indians unload Cortez’s ships.  Within a year all the Indians were dead.  It spread throughout the Americas decimating the Indian population from the arctic to the antarctic.  Small pox spread far faster than did the Spanish and into areas the Spanish never reached.  Disease is what killed the majority of the Indians.  When Louis and Clark went across America for the first time they encountered many Indians covered with the scars of pox.  By the time the whites got to California most of the large Indian population was gone.  You stated Native Americans were brought to the new world by Christians.  What ignorance, they were already here.  

As for Africans the majority of slaves did not come to the United States but were spread all over the world.  Slavery was everywhere and it was largely through the influence of Christianity that it was abolished.  It was and is evil and is still today.  Christians did not kill the Indianans nor were they responsible for the slave trade.  As for atheism, you want to draw a moral equivalency between Atheism and Christianity but Christianity condemns slavery.  On top of that Atheist empires killed hundreds of millions of people as I evidenced in an earlier post.  The reader will have to look at it and judge for themselves.  Now you want to establish who lives and dies.  I don’t think this the position of Longecity and the Life Extension movement, do you?

“Also you've casually forgotten about all of the thousands of ancient wars fought in the name of religion.”  

There have been lots of wars which had nothing to do with Christianity.  We are in one right now.  I think you have casually forgotten the concept of a just war and defensive war with your blanket statement.  Don’t forget all of the thousands of Atheists and non theists, who have been involved in wars.

“A pure blanket assertion. There's no way to calculate exact figures regarding specific death tolls and assigning them as a result of atheism versus communism or greed or revenge or whatever. And you are attempting to defend things done in the name of religion by placing more relative blame to atheism so that religion looks better.”

The reason Atheism looks so bad is because there is no comparison with the evil they have done and the sheer mass numbers of deaths.



#77 serp777

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 02:15 AM

serp777:  So it must be impossible to determine merit then. I guess humans have never been able to decide who has merit and who doesn't. World leaders and government committees would determine qualitative and or quantitative standards that would apply equally to everyone. And also, who decides whether no one or everyone receives immortality? You make a decision either way, and if you think otherwise then you're a fool. You're a disgusting person, and a genocidal maniac for wanting to condemn the entire world to a death by overpopulation. Typical.

They were communist empires, not atheist empires. You'll never understand what a personality cult is and clearly you have some weird obsession with trying to blame various deaths committed in the name of communism on atheists because you're trying to even the score, I guess, between theists and atheists. However, it’s the same thing as trying to settle the score between theists and a-fairyists. Its stupid. There's no difference.”

They were Communist, Atheist, empires.  Atheism has been tried before.  Read Marx and Lenin.

 “They may have considered themselves an atheist, but they aren't an entire communist nation you woefully ignorant child. Many of the people believed, for example, that Stalin was a supreme being/ deity because Stalin used enough propaganda. This is exactly analogous to North Korea right now where you have a supreme, deified leader. The people believe that their leader is a literal God. This personality cult doesn't resemble atheism whatsoever and neither did the alleged great "atheist" empires like China and the communist Russia. They're simply not compatible with an atheist nation. You continue to deny all of the facts out of sheer ignorance or confirmation bias.”

Sure there were people in the empires who were not Atheists but the empires were officially atheist and so was their leaders.  Theists were their special target.  Millions died.

“You didn't understand the point. The spread of disease was due to more than just 300 men. There were a number of Christian, Spanish conquistadors who explored all over the Americas looking for gold. There weren't any horses in the new world so travel up and down the Americas was limited and the spread of small pox would have been much slower and far less devastating without constant sea incursions due to Christian greed. And you're forgetting about the centuries after where European Christians enslaved native Americans and African Americans, and brought them to the new world to work on plantations. Millions died. Christians  were responsible for all of those deaths because of greed just like how you claim that atheism was responsible for all the deaths in the so called atheist communist empires. The point was to show how terrible your argument was but of course you missed it. I'm sure you'll argue that greed was responsible and not Christianity, to which I'll say communism was responsible, not atheism.”

The small pox epidemic was started by one black slave that had helped the local Indians unload Cortez’s ships.  Within a year all the Indians were dead.  It spread throughout the Americas decimating the Indian population from the arctic to the antarctic.  Small pox spread far faster than did the Spanish and into areas the Spanish never reached.  Disease is what killed the majority of the Indians.  When Louis and Clark went across America for the first time they encountered many Indians covered with the scars of pox.  By the time the whites got to California most of the large Indian population was gone.  You stated Native Americans were brought to the new world by Christians.  What ignorance, they were already here.  

As for Africans the majority of slaves did not come to the United States but were spread all over the world.  Slavery was everywhere and it was largely through the influence of Christianity that it was abolished.  It was and is evil and is still today.  Christians did not kill the Indianans nor were they responsible for the slave trade.  As for atheism, you want to draw a moral equivalency between Atheism and Christianity but Christianity condemns slavery.  On top of that Atheist empires killed hundreds of millions of people as I evidenced in an earlier post.  The reader will have to look at it and judge for themselves.  Now you want to establish who lives and dies.  I don’t think this the position of Longecity and the Life Extension movement, do you?

“Also you've casually forgotten about all of the thousands of ancient wars fought in the name of religion.”  

There have been lots of wars which had nothing to do with Christianity.  We are in one right now.  I think you have casually forgotten the concept of a just war and defensive war with your blanket statement.  Don’t forget all of the thousands of Atheists and non theists, who have been involved in wars.

“A pure blanket assertion. There's no way to calculate exact figures regarding specific death tolls and assigning them as a result of atheism versus communism or greed or revenge or whatever. And you are attempting to defend things done in the name of religion by placing more relative blame to atheism so that religion looks better.”

The reason Atheism looks so bad is because there is no comparison with the evil they have done and the sheer mass numbers of deaths.

 

"They were Communist, Atheist, empires.  Atheism has been tried before.  Read Marx and Lenin."

 

They have personality cults. They were not atheist empires just as North Korea or Japan weren't an atheist nation. Read about personality cults.

 

"The small pox epidemic was started by one black slave that had helped the local Indians unload Cortez’s ships.  Within a year all the Indians were dead.  It spread throughout the Americas decimating the Indian population from the arctic to the antarctic.  Small pox spread far faster than did the Spanish and into areas the Spanish never reached.  Disease is what killed the majority of the Indians.  When Louis and Clark went across America for the first time they encountered many Indians covered with the scars of pox.  By the time the whites got to California most of the large Indian population was gone.  You stated Native Americans were brought to the new world by Christians.  What ignorance, they were already here. "

 

What pure ignorance. You think all the Indians died? You realize there are still Indians today. You know nothing about history even though you pretend you do. Pizarro even still had time to exploit Incans with millions of people after Cortez's exploits and profits were heard about. Jesus you're embarrassing yourself. Small pox and other European diseases were spread by a variety of conquistadors and other explorers.

 

"Disease is what killed the majority of the Indians."

Its the result of Christian explorer and conquistadors, therefore Christians are to blame just like atheists are blamed for the actions of communist empires (even though they weren't really atheist)."

 

"You stated Native Americans were brought to the new world by Christians."

 

No, you're not very intelligent if you can't understand that simple sentence; I specifically said African Americans.

 

"As for Africans the majority of slaves did not come to the United States but were spread all over the world.  Slavery was everywhere and it was largely through the influence of Christianity that it was abolished.  It was and is evil and is still today.  Christians did not kill the Indianans nor were they responsible for the slave trade.  As for atheism, you want to draw a moral equivalency between Atheism and Christianity but Christianity condemns slavery."

Christianity does not condemn slavery at all at least in terms of the bible. Christianity has been forced to adopt secular morals in spite of beliefs. Morals established without religion. Most slave owners in the United States were Christians, so clearly many people did think it supported slavery.

 

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.  (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)"

"The reader will have to look at it and judge for themselves.  Now you want to establish who lives and dies.  I don’t think this the position of Longecity and the Life Extension movement, do you?"

Man your arguments are so terrible; you keep inventing stuff. By giving people immortality you don't establish who dies; nature and evolution still determines life expectancy.

 

You would rather establish that everyone gets immortality thereby killing everyone through overpopulation. You would prefer to determine that everyone, or most of us, die. You're a genocidal maniac. Readers will understand that.

 

"There have been lots of wars which had nothing to do with Christianity.  We are in one right now."

Same with your so called wars due to atheism.

 

"The reason Atheism looks so bad is because there is no comparison with the evil they have done and the sheer mass numbers of deaths."

IT looks just as bad as a-fairyism or a-santaclausism. There's no difference.


Edited by serp777, 13 February 2015 - 02:15 AM.


#78 shadowhawk

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 10:50 PM

SUMMARY

 

|The above massive is to much for this format so I will simplify it by summarizing the discussion.  It is enlightening.

1. I said and gave evidence that the great Atheist Empires of the last century killed far more people than any other group in history.  Why?  Because some in this topic are saying similar things and expressing values that are similar to these empires.  People based on there religion, IQ, education, job and merit as determined by a government committee and groups of intellectual elites will determine who gets to be immortal and who will die.  I pointed out something of this sort had been tried by the great Atheist regimes of the last century.  It was denied that there was any Atheist groups and no atheist leaders and countries.  

THE DENIAL OF IMMORALITY PLAN TO THOSE WITHOUT MERIT.  (Maybe Jews but certainly other theists) http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712798
Why I compared them.
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712116
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712118
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712190
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712191
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712198
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712243
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712245
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712518
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712589
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712727
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712745
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712764
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713202



2. Denial that there are atheists.
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712198
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712245
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712835
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712912
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712920
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712960
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713005
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713144
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713161
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713202

So read and weep.  This is not what Longecity is all about, I hope.
 



#79 serp777

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 11:28 PM

SUMMARY

 

|The above massive is to much for this format so I will simplify it by summarizing the discussion.  It is enlightening.

1. I said and gave evidence that the great Atheist Empires of the last century killed far more people than any other group in history.  Why?  Because some in this topic are saying similar things and expressing values that are similar to these empires.  People based on there religion, IQ, education, job and merit as determined by a government committee and groups of intellectual elites will determine who gets to be immortal and who will die.  I pointed out something of this sort had been tried by the great Atheist regimes of the last century.  It was denied that there was any Atheist groups and no atheist leaders and countries.  

THE DENIAL OF IMMORALITY PLAN TO THOSE WITHOUT MERIT.  (Maybe Jews but certainly other theists) http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712798
Why I compared them.
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712116
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712118
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712190
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712191
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712198
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712243
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712245
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712518
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712589
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712727
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712745
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712764
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713202



2. Denial that there are atheists.
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712198
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712245
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712835
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712912
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712920
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712960
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713005
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713144
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713161
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713202

So read and weep.  This is not what Longecity is all about, I hope.
 

 

What is it like living in your own universe? No one besides us are reading these posts. You must be so delusional that you think you have a spectacle of people subscribed to your posts. Simply linking posts doesn't support your argument at all.

 

All of these posts say that there are atheists, but saying there are groups of atheists is as foolish as saying there are groups of a-fairysists.You're not capable of reading or you're stupid because you've used this strawman about 10 times now.

 

At least its more intelligent than you thinking that all of the Indians died. LOL

 

"People based on there religion, IQ, education, job and merit as determined by a government committee and groups of intellectual elites will determine who gets to be immortal and who will die."

Never said religion you troll. I said religious leaders probably dont contribute to society so they probably wouldnt get immortality.

 

And here's your position:

"I will decide that either everyone or no one gets immortality, but since i am an idiot, i think that determining who doesn't get immortality is the same thing as determining who dies. Therefore, I universally decide as master of the universe and ethics that everyone should get immortality because I am the best, most moral person to commit genocide on the world through overpopulation. What's that you say? The earth couldn't possibly support everyone being immortal? WELL YOU WANT TO DETERMINE WHO DIES AND ITS PROBABLY RELIGIOUS PEOPLE grrrrrrrrrrr."

 

"So read and weep."

I weep at how pathetic and limited your debating skills are.


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#80 shadowhawk

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 11:51 PM

One nice thing is anyone interested can read exactly what you said.  :sleep: That is why I referenced your posts.  They speak for themselves.

 

|The above massive is to much for this format so I will simplify it by summarizing the discussion.  It is enlightening.

1. I said and gave evidence that the great Atheist Empires of the last century killed far more people than any other group in history.  Why?  Because some in this topic are saying similar things and expressing values that are similar to these empires.  People based on there religion, IQ, education, job and merit as determined by a government committee and groups of intellectual elites will determine who gets to be immortal and who will die.  I pointed out something of this sort had been tried by the great Atheist regimes of the last century.  It was denied that there was any Atheist groups and no atheist leaders and countries.  

THE DENIAL OF IMMORALITY PLAN TO THOSE WITHOUT MERIT.  (Maybe Jews but certainly other theists) http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712798
Why I compared them.
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712116
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712118
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712190
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712191
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712198
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712243
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712245
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712518
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712589
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712727
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712745
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712764
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713202



2. Denial that there are atheists.
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712198
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712245
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712835
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712912
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712920
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712960
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713005
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713144
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713161
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713202

So read and weep.  This is not what Longecity is all about, I hope.

 

List of atheist organizations.  There are more, Google it.

http://en.wikipedia....t_organizations
 


Edited by shadowhawk, 13 February 2015 - 11:56 PM.


#81 serp777

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 12:01 AM

One nice thing is anyone interested can read exactly what you said.  :sleep: That is why I referenced your posts.  They speak for themselves.

 

|The above massive is to much for this format so I will simplify it by summarizing the discussion.  It is enlightening.

1. I said and gave evidence that the great Atheist Empires of the last century killed far more people than any other group in history.  Why?  Because some in this topic are saying similar things and expressing values that are similar to these empires.  People based on there religion, IQ, education, job and merit as determined by a government committee and groups of intellectual elites will determine who gets to be immortal and who will die.  I pointed out something of this sort had been tried by the great Atheist regimes of the last century.  It was denied that there was any Atheist groups and no atheist leaders and countries.  

THE DENIAL OF IMMORALITY PLAN TO THOSE WITHOUT MERIT.  (Maybe Jews but certainly other theists) http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712798
Why I compared them.
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712116
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712118
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712190
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712191
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712198
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712243
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712245
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712518
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712589
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712727
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712745
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712764
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713202



2. Denial that there are atheists.
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712198
http://www.longecity...e-2#entry712245
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712835
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712912
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712920
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry712960
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713005
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713144
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713161
http://www.longecity...e-3#entry713202

So read and weep.  This is not what Longecity is all about, I hope.

 

List of atheist organizations.  There are more, Google it.

http://en.wikipedia....t_organizations
 

oh were repeating posts?

 

What is it like living in your own universe? No one besides us are reading these posts. You must be so delusional that you think you have a spectacle of people subscribed to your posts. Simply linking posts doesn't support your argument at all.

 

All of these posts say that there are atheists, but saying there are groups of atheists is as foolish as saying there are groups of a-fairysists.You're not capable of reading or you're stupid because you've used this strawman about 10 times now.

 

At least its more intelligent than you thinking that all of the Indians died. LOL

 

"People based on there religion, IQ, education, job and merit as determined by a government committee and groups of intellectual elites will determine who gets to be immortal and who will die."

Never said religion you troll. I said religious leaders probably dont contribute to society so they probably wouldnt get immortality.

 

And here's your position:

"I will decide that either everyone or no one gets immortality, but since i am an idiot, i think that determining who doesn't get immortality is the same thing as determining who dies. Therefore, I universally decide as master of the universe and ethics that everyone should get immortality because I am the best, most moral person to commit genocide on the world through overpopulation. What's that you say? The earth couldn't possibly support everyone being immortal? WELL YOU WANT TO DETERMINE WHO DIES AND ITS PROBABLY RELIGIOUS PEOPLE grrrrrrrrrrr."

 

"So read and weep."

I weep at how pathetic and limited your debating skills are.

 

And list of secular organizations are entirely different than atheist organizations you ignorant child. Secular groups don't make reference to God or religion. Atheist groups would make reference to their claims that religions are false.


Edited by serp777, 14 February 2015 - 12:03 AM.


#82 shadowhawk

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 01:23 AM

Should be careful putting quotes around something and saying I said that.  I sourced your own words  and didn't make up nonsense.  is this allowed in the forums?  Rave on.


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#83 shadowhawk

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 02:14 AM

Here are a few more sources of Atheist organizations and atheist personalities.  There are many many more.  I just psted them to show that the idea there are no Atheist Organizations is just propaganda.  Atheists want to whitewash the truth.
http://atheists.org/
http://ffrf.org/
http://www.atheistalliance.org/
http://bornatheist.c...anizaitons.html
http://atheists.meetup.com/
https://www.secular.org/member_orgs
http://atheistallianceamerica.org/
http://www.patheos.c...ion-in-america/
http://www.atheistsites.net/
http://us.wow.com/se... atheist groups
http://www.weareathe.../organizations/
http://www.atheismun...manist_websites
http://en.wikipedia....eninist_atheism
http://en.wikipedia....sm_and_religion
http://www.ewtn.com/...gy/ATHEMARX.HTM
http://www.conservap...m_and_communism
http://atheismexpose...eist_crimes.htm
http://www.conservap...and_Mass_Murder
http://www.catholice...of-history.html
http://superscholar....ntial-atheists/
 



#84 serp777

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 03:59 AM

Should be careful putting quotes around something and saying I said that.  I sourced your own words  and didn't make up nonsense.  is this allowed in the forums?  Rave on.

 

I said its your position not what you said. Learn to read.

 

You didn't source my words, you usually invent some strawman. I never said I wanted to intellectual elite to determine that religious people shouldn't receive immortality. You make up delusional garbage all the time.

 

"I just psted them to show that the idea there are no Atheist Organizations is just propaganda.  Atheists want to whitewash the truth."

 

I'm not an atheist for starters, i'm an agnostic so your atheist whitewash conspiracy is bogus. Let me get my tinfoil hat. I said atheist groups are as sensible as a-fairyist groups. And first, many of the links you posted are secular. The United States government is secular, it doesn't mean its atheist. You clearly don't understand the difference, which isn't even that subtle. You really don't know much. How old are you?

 

Also things like the atheist alliance are secular. They don't propose teaching atheism to people, they simply want religion to be removed from government and have no position. Its all mostly secular. Teaching atheism as a belief system in school for example would be entirely against atheist principles. Therefore grouping based on atheism is totally against the principles of atheism. You have to believe that atheists are one big group though because otherwise your absurd and foolish argument that there are great atheist empires would fall apart and that atheism has been responsible. However for some reason a-fairyists also aren't responsible. Or the fact that religious people are atheists to all other faiths don't make them responsible.Next we're probably going to hear that North Korea and WW2 Japan were great atheist nations.

 

People who do group up based on atheists aren't being sensible. People don't group up because they dont believe in Santa Clause, or the Greek myths, or anything else for that matter.


Edited by serp777, 14 February 2015 - 04:05 AM.

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#85 shadowhawk

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 08:54 PM

By the way it is not my position and your putting quotes around something I did not say or think is typical projection and wishful thinking on your part.  Talk about a straw man.

 

Christians are not against biological immortality but there are ethical issues on how that is done.  That can be an issue as seen in the above debate.



#86 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 09:32 PM

Alright, @shadowhawk. How is it done, in accordance with the ethical issues? What way to biological immortality the religion suggest?



#87 shadowhawk

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 10:12 PM

Well it is a huge subject.  Christians have created hospitals and health centers all over the world.  No other group even comes close to promoting life as much as the church.  However when it comes to killing humans to promote life, there are ethical issues which Christians do not support. 



#88 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 10:29 PM

Private and public hospitals have been created all over the world from many people and organizations. Why only the christians have to be the leading factor for building of the hospitals? How much money the religion has given for building hospitals? And how building of hospital will make us immortal. We need the technology, not only the hospitals. And religion is stopping the technology.



#89 serp777

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 11:03 PM

Well it is a huge subject.  Christians have created hospitals and health centers all over the world.  No other group even comes close to promoting life as much as the church.  However when it comes to killing humans to promote life, there are ethical issues which Christians do not support. 

 

Funny, you didnt answer the question at all. And much of what the Christian church does is for prostyleization and not for "promoting life". Then there are people like mother theresa who take money from dictators (who stole from the poor), open up hundreds of nunnerys to train people in the United States and India, and then open death houses where people wait to die instead of going to the hospital. This is the kind of "life promotion" that the church wants by making her a saint. Then there's the whole thing about the church "AIDS are bad but condoms are worse"

 

 

 

So then you don't think everyone should get immortality because you're promoting life by letting everyone die through overpopulation. And by denying everyone immortality to be fair you're not promoting life. So you're picking and choosing either way. You've never explained this and you never will because you can't. It would show your hypocrisy and that i didnt create a strawman whatsoever.

 

You want it both ways so you failed to answer the question period, and instead rambled on about how the church allegedly promotes life.


Private and public hospitals have been created all over the world from many people and organizations. Why only the christians have to be the leading factor for building of the hospitals? How much money the religion has given for building hospitals? And how building of hospital will make us immortal. We need the technology, not only the hospitals. And religion is stopping the technology.

 

Not only that he didn't even answer your question. he's not saying his position of who should receive immortality so that he can look "ethically superior."


Edited by serp777, 16 February 2015 - 11:04 PM.


#90 shadowhawk

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 11:53 PM

Private and public hospitals have been created all over the world from many people and organizations. Why only the christians have to be the leading factor for building of the hospitals? How much money the religion has given for building hospitals? And how building of hospital will make us immortal. We need the technology, not only the hospitals. And religion is stopping the technology.

Remember Hitler was into Technology and was very good at it.  There are ethical isswues related to the use of technology.  You seem to be willing to harvest body parts from the weak and defenless for the sake of the strong.  Christians would have a problem wikth that.  As for imortality due to technology, there is zero evidence for that.

 







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