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Carnitine & Choline -- Newest Research on TMAO?

carnitine choline

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#1 brosci

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 02:03 AM


I'm interested in Carnitine & Choline supplementation.  I eat meat every day, but I don't tend to eat a lot of meat.  Looking on cronometer, I average around 300 milligrams of dietary choline per day, which is below the recommended ADI.  I also have PEMT genetics that are associated with decreased choline synthesis.  I've read that carnitine & choline support mitochondrial / cardiovascular / cognitive function.

 

In reading online, I'm seeing a lot of concern around TMAO and pro-atherogenic metabolites like γ-Butyrobetaine from consuming carnitine & choline.

 

Is it wise to avoid supplementing these nutrients for cardiovascular safety concerns?  Are their ideal / safer forms to supplement (ALCAR vs L-Carnitine, or CDP-Choline vs Choline Bitartrate) ?

 

I found this recent article on PubMed: http://www.atheroscl...0192-1/abstract

 

The doses of l-carnitine used in the mouse experiment, corresponding to dietary l-carnitine supplementation in Human, and leading to increased TMAO may provide protection against atherosclerosis development. These findings suggest that TMAO slows aortic lesion formation in this mouse model and may have a protective effect against atherosclerosis development in humans.

 

I'm currently interested in ALCAR Arginate, GPLC, and Alpha-GPC.  Are these safe to supplement?


Edited by brosci, 04 December 2015 - 02:09 AM.

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#2 albedo

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:38 AM

> I'm currently interested in ALCAR Arginate, GPLC, and Alpha-GPC.  Are these safe to supplement? <

 

You might find useful checking these links regarding safety studies on Alpha-GPC and L-Carnitine

 

Safety assessment of AGPC as a food ingredient.

“α-Glycerylphosphorylcholine (AGPC) is a semi-synthetic derivative of lecithin. Following oral administration, it is converted to phosphatidylcholine, a metabolically active form of choline that is able to reach cholinergic synaptic endings where it increases acetylcholine synthesis and release. A series of studies were conducted to demonstrate the safety of AGPC. The oral LD50 was equal to or greater than 10,000 mg/kg in rats and mice. Deaths were preceded by convulsions in some animals. Dosing of dogs with up to 3000 mg/kg AGPC resulted only in reduced activity. Sub-chronic and chronic oral toxicity studies in rats (up to 1000 mg/kg/day) and beagles (up to 300 mg/kg/day) produced symptomology primarily consisting of reduced activity; slight decreases in food consumption and body weight gain; and slight reduction in liver weight, paralleled by significant decreases in plasma triglycerides, bilirubin, and alkaline phosphatase. There were no histopathological correlates. The in vivo and in vitro assays clearly indicated that AGPC was devoid of mutagenic activity. Based on these results, AGPC is not genotoxic in vitro or in vivo, exhibits low acute oral toxicity and, has an oral NOAEL of 150 mg/kg bw/day following 26 weeks oral exposure.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21414376

 

Safety measures of L-carnitine L-tartrate supplementation in healthy men.

“The purpose of this investigation was to examine the effects of ingestion of L-CARNIPURE (L-carnitine L-tartrate [LCLT]) on alterations in a complete blood cell profile and in circulating metabolic enzymes. Using a balanced, placebo (P), cross-over design (1 week washout), 10 healthy, active men volunteered and acted as their own control taking either a P or LCLT supplement (3 g.day(-1)) for 3 weeks. Postabsorptive morning blood samples were obtained both before and after 21 days of P and LCLT supplementation. Serum samples were analyzed for clinical chemistries including a complete chemistry panel with markers of liver and renal function along with various minerals and electrolytes. In addition, whole blood was analyzed for a complete blood count with differential. It was determined that there were no statistically significant differences between the LCLT and the placebo conditions for any of the variables examined. The results of this study suggest that LCLT, when used as a dietary supplement, has no adverse effects on metabolic and hematological safety variables in normally healthy men.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11726261

 

Rebuttal to Attack Against Carnitine

http://www.lifeexten...rnitine/page-01

 

I am personally taking both Alpha-GPC and L-Carnitine since many years at moderate doses for a variety of reasons. I also recently increased a bit my phosphatidylcholines (PPC) becase of my genotypes in MTHFD1 and PEMT and relatively low consumption of eggs and meat.

 

While I did not study much the TMAO issue, I think that, as gut microbiota are key in the metabolism of phospholipids to yield TMAO, both for general reasons (immunity, anti-inflammatory, ...) and in trying to remediate to the TMAO negative effects, a parallel supplementation of good probiotics and prebiotics to maintain a good intestinal flora would be a good idea. I also do this regularly since many years. You might check these links:

 

Lipid Metabolism by Gut Microbes and Atherosclerosis

http://circres.ahajo.../109/2/127.full

 

Your Gut Bacteria Linked to Your Risk for Heart Disease

http://articles.merc...rt-disease.aspx

 


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#3 albedo

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 05:27 PM

The OP's question triggered a small research on the very interesting role of gut microbiota in the host metabolism and its importance regarding the damaging trimethylamine-N-oxide (TMAO) choline metabolite which is a right concern for NAFLD and atherosclerosis. Just in case, I posted additional information in the Forum: http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=753240

 


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#4 RobbieG

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 07:14 PM

I posted the same question here regarding Choline.  http://www.longecity...tor-in-disease/
 

With some many choline fanatics on here I would have thought this would be of concern or at least generated a healthy discussion but I am wrong.  


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#5 brosci

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 01:21 AM

In another study from 2015, Carnitine increased TMAO, while reducing heart disease at the same time:

 
It seems like your largest source of TMAO would be from seafood, which again, reduces heart disease and reduces the risk of atherosclerosis.  CDP-Choline  (which posses cardio-protective qualities itself) is a popular choline supplement, where a standard 250mg dose is only 18% choline (45 milligrams) -- if you ate a half of one egg, you would be getting close to double this amount of choline (and still far beneath the minimum required dietary requirement.)  Looking at egg consumption and calcified atheroscrerotic plaque in the coronary arteries, eating zero eggs was associated with a 1.0 risk ratio, while 1-3 times per month reduced risk down to 0.95, once per week reduced the risk to 0.94, and 2 times per week further reduced the risk factor to as low as 0.57 for an average of 0.9: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25642410
 
Looking down the list at other particularly highly-concentrated sources of choline, there's only 1 other competitor to eggs, which might be soy lecithin.  In this study, fed to monkeys and hamsters, you see a reduced risk of atherosclerosis: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9733225
 
Interestingly, you can add carnitine to the drinking water of rats at 5,000mg per liter (~10x doses for a 150lb man given to a rat that weighs 150x less), feed them this for around half of their lifespan (increasing TMAO), and you don't see any adverse effects on their vascular system: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25164827
 
Looking at Propionyl-L-Carnitine specifically, fed to hyperlipemic rabbits poised to develop atherosclerosis, long-term supplementation reduced the risk of atherosclerosis: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7605374
 
Although, I'm not seeing much information on ALCAR Arginate, GPLC, and Alpha-GPC with regard to cardiovascular health and mortality.  (Particularly when consuming choline levels that are still below the minimum recommended dietary amounts to prevent disease after supplementation.)

Edited by brosci, 26 December 2015 - 02:16 AM.

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