(retaking this Poll maybe needed later)
Good Luck, I hope this poll helps
Edited by bixbyte, 08 December 2007 - 07:15 AM.
Posted 07 December 2007 - 09:28 PM
Edited by bixbyte, 08 December 2007 - 07:15 AM.
Posted 07 December 2007 - 10:39 PM
I hope this Poll helps and shows some significance as to positive, negative, or neutral effects while taking your daily dose of RSV.
(designing a Poll that displays dosage and effect maybe if needed later)
Good Luck, I hope this poll works
Posted 08 December 2007 - 01:46 AM
What about people like albertn who have had both positive and negative effects?
Edited by bixbyte, 08 December 2007 - 07:12 AM.
Posted 08 December 2007 - 01:55 AM
Posted 08 December 2007 - 04:37 AM
You just need to add an item that says "both positive and negative".Their polling program is not capable of dual function.What about people like albertn who have had both positive and negative effects?
Perhaps if someone experiences both positive and negative effects they may elect to do a write in.
Or someone may try to write another poll?
Posted 08 December 2007 - 04:57 AM
Posted 08 December 2007 - 07:13 AM
You just need to add an item that says "both positive and negative".
You might want to add an item that says "I'm not sure" also.
Posted 08 December 2007 - 08:59 AM
Posted 08 December 2007 - 09:06 AM
I have had both. I seem to have more energy but this could be more of a placebo effect. I know one thing for sure is that I have been able to stop taking zoloft after starting to take resveratrol three time a day. Initial effects of taking res and zoloft were not fun. Now I am starting to experience some joint pain. Enough to really concern me. Maybe that should be a new topic to see if other people have experienced joint problems.
Posted 08 December 2007 - 10:27 AM
Edited by valjean, 08 December 2007 - 11:21 AM.
Posted 08 December 2007 - 10:32 AM
Posted 08 December 2007 - 12:28 PM
Posted 08 December 2007 - 04:16 PM
Posted 08 December 2007 - 04:26 PM
how much are you taking and by what method?i have an issue with painful knees and ankles while standing or after squatting and after the cross trainer. I did notice any effects on the knees or ankles :(
Posted 08 December 2007 - 05:38 PM
how much are you taking and by what method?i have an issue with painful knees and ankles while standing or after squatting and after the cross trainer. I did notice any effects on the knees or ankles :(
Posted 08 December 2007 - 06:09 PM
how much are you taking and by what method?i have an issue with painful knees and ankles while standing or after squatting and after the cross trainer. I did notice any effects on the knees or ankles :(
600 mg empty stomach.
Posted 09 December 2007 - 04:50 AM
Hi missminni. Resveratrol is actually absorbed pretty well orally; much greater than 10%. The problem is that it is rapidly metabolized in both the liver and the gut to the glucuronidate and sulfate conjugates.When you do it with DMSO you only use about 200 mg (eigth of a teaspoon) and 80% of it should get into the bloodsteam, whereas orally, only 10% does.
Posted 09 December 2007 - 01:53 PM
Hi missminni. Resveratrol is actually absorbed pretty well orally; much greater than 10%. The problem is that it is rapidly metabolized in both the liver and the gut to the glucuronidate and sulfate conjugates.When you do it with DMSO you only use about 200 mg (eigth of a teaspoon) and 80% of it should get into the bloodsteam, whereas orally, only 10% does.
By dosing transdermally with DMSO, you bypass the gut enzymes and get directly into circulation without first going through the liver. However, you only get a couple minutes of this condition before the blood goes back around to the liver, at which point conjugation will occur rapidly.
I think that the main advantage of DMSO for resveratrol use is to get a higher local concentration for an anti-inflammatory effect at a particular site, assuming it is reasonably close to the surface. An ankle or knee should be a good candidate to try this on, as missminni suggests.
Edited by missminni, 09 December 2007 - 01:56 PM.
Posted 10 December 2007 - 04:32 AM
Hi missminni. Resveratrol is actually absorbed pretty well orally; much greater than 10%. The problem is that it is rapidly metabolized in both the liver and the gut to the glucuronidate and sulfate conjugates.When you do it with DMSO you only use about 200 mg (eigth of a teaspoon) and 80% of it should get into the bloodsteam, whereas orally, only 10% does.
By dosing transdermally with DMSO, you bypass the gut enzymes and get directly into circulation without first going through the liver. However, you only get a couple minutes of this condition before the blood goes back around to the liver, at which point conjugation will occur rapidly.
I think that the main advantage of DMSO for resveratrol use is to get a higher local concentration for an anti-inflammatory effect at a particular site, assuming it is reasonably close to the surface. An ankle or knee should be a good candidate to try this on, as missminni suggests.
Hi Niner, thanks for the explanation. My very basic understanding about transdermal application was that since it goes directly into the bloodstream, you get higher levels in the blood before it goes to the liver, whereas orally it passes through the liver once before it enters the bloodstream, and the amount that enters the bloodstream is considerably lower than what you actually took-I thought 10% ??, and then one more time after it goes through the liver again and enters the bloodstream about 6 hours later, so you get res levels in your blood then too. So in a way it's 6 of one half dozen of the other. Is that correct? That's why I do it both ways. They each have their advantages.
The DMSO has anti-inflammatory properties of its own, so applying it directly to the painful area with the Res mixed in is very effective.
My toes don't hurt at all. When I just used the DMSO alone, they stopped hurting for a few hours. With the Res, the pain does not come back.
I didn't use the DMSO/Res on them for the past two days, and they still don't hurt. I'll see if that's still the case today when I take a long walk.
Another question, maybe Anthony can answer.....
Might those using the 50% pure res like the R300 in hi doses be getting too much of the other 50% of non-Resveratrol substances and that
might have an effect of its own? Weren't the clinical tests they did with 100% pure Resveratrol? Have any tests been done with 50% Res in high doses? We already know it contains Emodin and can have a laxative effect. My Dad had a laxative issue with the R300 when he took 3 at one time. But what else beside emodin is in that non-res 50%? I am particularly concerned because my Dad is taking the R300's, as well as supplementing with the pure powder. He had positive results with the R300's, but he's having super results since starting to supplement with the powder. However, now I am a bit concerned about the R300's other 50% content. Anybody know about this? I was particularly concerned when someone here reported having severe joint pain after taking R300's for a few months. I can't take any chances with my Dad. He's 92.
Posted 10 December 2007 - 04:52 AM
When you dose transdermally, the drug doesn't really go directly into the bloodstream; first it diffuses through the various layers of skin and into the subcutaneous fat. It spreads out in these tissues and takes up residence for a while. In order to get into systemic circulation, it needs to diffuse into the capillaries, and this process takes time. Quite a lot of time, actually. This makes it great for treatment of a localized inflammation, for example, but not so good as a way of delivering a high blood level. Oral resveratrol is well absorbed, but because it's conjugated so rapidly, the amount of free unconjugated resveratrol in your blood is not even 10%. Probably closer to 1-2%. While the transdermal dosing avoids the liver on the first pass, the blood continues to circulate, so the transdermal res is quickly eaten up by conjugation. You do get a few minutes before the transdermal res hits the liver, but the flux through the skin is so incredibly slow (even with a permeation enhancer) that the level of free resveratrol in the blood at any given moment is not going to be very high.Hi missminni. Resveratrol is actually absorbed pretty well orally; much greater than 10%. The problem is that it is rapidly metabolized in both the liver and the gut to the glucuronidate and sulfate conjugates.When you do it with DMSO you only use about 200 mg (eigth of a teaspoon) and 80% of it should get into the bloodsteam, whereas orally, only 10% does.
By dosing transdermally with DMSO, you bypass the gut enzymes and get directly into circulation without first going through the liver. However, you only get a couple minutes of this condition before the blood goes back around to the liver, at which point conjugation will occur rapidly.
I think that the main advantage of DMSO for resveratrol use is to get a higher local concentration for an anti-inflammatory effect at a particular site, assuming it is reasonably close to the surface. An ankle or knee should be a good candidate to try this on, as missminni suggests.
Hi Niner, thanks for the explanation. My very basic understanding about transdermal application was that since it goes directly into the bloodstream, you get higher levels in the blood before it goes to the liver, whereas orally it passes through the liver once before it enters the bloodstream, and the amount that enters the bloodstream is considerably lower than what you actually took-I thought 10% ??, and then one more time after it goes through the liver again and enters the bloodstream about 6 hours later, so you get res levels in your blood then too. So in a way it's 6 of one half dozen of the other. Is that correct? That's why I do it both ways. They each have their advantages.
The DMSO has anti-inflammatory properties of its own, so applying it directly to the painful area with the Res mixed in is very effective.
My toes don't hurt at all. When I just used the DMSO alone, they stopped hurting for a few hours. With the Res, the pain does not come back.
I didn't use the DMSO/Res on them for the past two days, and they still don't hurt. I'll see if that's still the case today when I take a long walk.
All of the published clinical work has been done with high purity resveratrol. I think that most or all of it was synthetic. Laxative effects from emodin are one known problem with lower purity extracts. There are also euphoric effects that most people seem to like, though they wear off over time. Associated with that seems to be appetite suppression. The joint/tendon problems seem to be a real side effect of resveratrol, and not just the impurities. There have been enough reports here that I'm concerned about it. I hope that this problem is not generically related to SIRT1 activation, but is rather a side effect of resveratrol. At least then we have a long term way around it. I think that if you watch for it, you can stop the resveratrol and the problem will usually subside.
Another question, maybe Anthony can answer.....
Might those using the 50% pure res like the R300 in hi doses be getting too much of the other 50% of non-Resveratrol substances and that might have an effect of its own? Weren't the clinical tests they did with 100% pure Resveratrol? Have any tests been done with 50% Res in high doses? We already know it contains Emodin and can have a laxative effect. My Dad had a laxative issue with the R300 when he took 3 at one time. But what else beside emodin is in that non-res 50%? I am particularly concerned because my Dad is taking the R300's, as well as supplementing with the pure powder. He had positive results with the R300's, but he's having super results since starting to supplement with the powder. However, now I am a bit concerned about the R300's other 50% content. Anybody know about this? I was particularly concerned when someone here reported having severe joint pain after taking R300's for a few months. I can't take any chances with my Dad. He's 92.
Posted 10 December 2007 - 06:43 AM
So, although I am presently having relief from joint pain i.e. my knees feel stronger and don't hurt anymore. I run the chance of having that improvement change? Has that been the case with others? or is the joint/tendon pain happening in cases where thereAll of the published clinical work has been done with high purity resveratrol. I think that most or all of it was synthetic. Laxative effects from emodin are one known problem with lower purity extracts. There are also euphoric effects that most people seem to like, though they wear off over time. Associated with that seems to be appetite suppression. The joint/tendon problems seem to be a real side effect of resveratrol, and not just the impurities. There have been enough reports here that I'm concerned about it. I hope that this problem is not generically related to SIRT1 activation, but is rather a side effect of resveratrol. At least then we have a long term way around it. I think that if you watch for it, you can stop the resveratrol and the problem will usually subside.
Edited by missminni, 10 December 2007 - 07:45 AM.
Posted 10 December 2007 - 12:49 PM
ETA~
Has there been any survey taken as to what product the people complaining of joint pain are taking?
Since pure resveratrol was used in the clinical work, would there not have been an indication of this reaction ?
I would be very interested in knowing who is experiencing joint/tendon problems and what product they are using.
So far I only know of the case where they are taking the R300. Are there others having this experience who are
taking pure res?
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Inflammation. 2007 Apr;30(1-2):1-6. Links
Effects of resveratrol in inflammatory arthritis.Elmali N, Baysal O, Harma A, Esenkaya I, Mizrak B.
Department of Orthopaedics and Traumatology, Inönü University Medical Faculty, 44069 Malatya, Turkey. nelmali@hotmail.com
Nuclear factor kappa B (NF-kappaB), is a pivotal transcription factor involved in the activation of the TNF-alpha and IL-1beta genes. Activation of NF-kappaB in synovial cells is a feature seen in arthritis patients. Resveratrol, a polyphenolic, natural phytoalexin found with particularly high levels in grape skin and red wine is potent and specific inhibitor of TNF-alpha and IL-1beta induced NF-kappaB activation. We aimed to determine the in vivo effects of intra-articular injections of resveratrol on cartilage and synovium in an experimental rabbit inflammatory arthritis model. MATERIALS AND METHODS: Arthritis was induced by intra-articular injection of three times of 50 mug lipopolysaccharide (LPS) at day 0, 4 and 8 at 4-day intervals into the knee joints of rabbits. To the test group, 10 muMol/kg resveratrol in the DMSO was injected in the knees at day 0 and then it was continued once daily for 2 weeks. To the control group the same time and amount of DMSO was injected the knees of rabbits. All rabbits were killed 1 week after the last injection and cartilage tissue and synovium were evaluated with semiquantitative scoring histologically. RESULTS: According to control group in the resveratrol group, significantly decreased cartilage destruction was determined by H&E staining (p = 0.04). Loss of matrix proteoglycan content in the cartilage was much lower, as determined by safranin O staining (p = 0.03). We also observed marked synovial inflammation after intra-articular injection to control knees, but not in the resveratrol treated group knees (p = 0.01). CONCLUSION: This study suggests that intra-articular injection of resveratrol may protect cartilage against the development of experimentally induced IA.
PMID: 17115116
Posted 10 December 2007 - 05:58 PM
Posted 10 December 2007 - 07:58 PM
Posted 10 December 2007 - 08:22 PM
A recent rat tendon study proved that MMP inhibitors will prevent the decrease in material properties associated with 7 days of tendon stress deprivation by inhibiting MMP activity. So, Resveratrol might protect tendons in conditions of weightlessness for example. (NASA research proposal anyone?)
However, in the situation of chronic overuse tendon stress then over-exercising while using Resveratrol could lead to tendon degeneration by inhibition of matrix remodelling due to failure to regulate specific MMP activities in response to repeated injury or mechanical strain.
If I had the time, the energy & I was a researcher I would definitely look at this closely.
Posted 11 December 2007 - 07:59 AM
enzyme: If I had the time, the energy & I was a researcher I would definitely look at this closely.
The American Journal of Sports Medicine 32:1743-1747 (2004)
© 2004 American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine
Parecoxib Impairs Early Tendon Repair but Improves Later Remodeling
Olena Virchenko, MD, Björn Skoglund and Per Aspenberg, MD, PhD*
From the Section for Orthopaedics and Sports Medicine, Department of Neuroscience and Locomotion, Faculty of Health Sciences, Linköping, Sweden
Background: Cyclooxygenase-2 inhibitors inhibit bone repair.
Hypothesis: Cyclooxygenase inhibitors might also have a negative effect on early tendon repair, although a positive effect on latme tendon repair previously has been shown.
Study Design: Controlled laboratory study.
Methods: Achilles tendon transection was performed on 80 rats. Sixty rats were given daily intramuscular injections of either parecoxib (6.4 mg/kg body weight) or saline for the first 5 days after surgery and sacrificed either at 8 or 14 days. The remaining 20 rats were given intramuscular parecoxib or saline injections from day 6 until sacrifice at 14 days.
Results: At 8 days, early parecoxib treatment caused a 27% decrease in force at failure (P = .007), a 25% decrease in maximum stress (P = .01), and a 31% decrease in energy uptake (P = .05). Stiffness and transverse area were not significantly affected. At 14 days, early parecoxib treatment caused a decrease in stiffness (P = .004). In contrast to early treatment, late parecoxib treatment caused a 16% decrease in cross-sectional area (P = .03) and a 29% increase in maximum stress (P = .04).
Conclusions: During early tendon repair, a cyclooxygenase-2 inhibitor had a detrimental effect. During remodelling, however, inflammation appears to have a negative influence, and cyclooxygenase-2 inhibitors might be of value.
Clinical Relevance: The results suggest that cyclooxygenase-2 inhibitors should be used with care in the early period after tendon injury.
Rofecoxib modulates multiple gene expression pathways in a clinical model of acute inflammatory pain.
Wang XM, Wu TX, Hamza M, Ramsay ES, Wahl SM, Dionne RA.
NINR/NIH, Bethesda, MD 20892, USA.
New insights into the biological properties of cyclooxygenase-2 (COX-2) and its response pathway challenge the hypothesis that COX-2 is simply pro-inflammatory and inhibition of COX-2 solely prevents the development of inflammation and ameliorates inflammatory pain. The present study performed a comprehensive analysis of gene/protein expression induced by a selective inhibitor of COX-2, rofecoxib, compared with a non-selective COX inhibitor, ibuprofen, and placebo in a clinical model of acute inflammatory pain (the surgical extraction of impacted third molars) using microarray analysis followed by quantitative RT-PCR verification and Western blotting. Inhibition of COX-2 modulated gene expression related to inflammation and pain, the arachidonic acid pathway, apoptosis/angiogenesis, cell adhesion and signal transduction. Compared to placebo, rofecoxib treatment increased the gene expression of ANXA3 (annexin 3), SOD2 (superoxide dismutase 2), SOCS3 (suppressor of cytokine signaling 3) and IL1RN (IL1 receptor antagonist) which are associated with inhibition of phospholipase A(2) and suppression of cytokine signaling cascades, respectively. Both rofecoxib and ibuprofen treatment increased the gene expression of the pro-inflammatory mediators, IL6 and CCL2 (chemokine C-C motif ligand 2), following tissue injury compared to the placebo treatment. These results indicate a complex role for COX-2 in the inflammatory cascade in addition to the well-characterized COX-dependent pathway, as multiple pathways are also involved in rofecoxib-induced anti-inflammatory and analgesic effects at the gene expression level. These findings may also suggest an alternative hypothesis for the adverse effects attributed to selective inhibition of COX-2.
PMID: 17070997
Both cheeks' tendons? :>My tendons are a pain in the ass. Literally
Posted 12 December 2007 - 12:36 AM
Good Luck, I hope this poll helps
Posted 12 December 2007 - 02:13 AM
Good Luck, I hope this poll helps
Since everyone is adding their neg effects taking a daily RSV dose.
How about some posters adding their pos effects?
Like my Glucose on my last lab test less than a week ago came up 90
My blood pressure is 130/73
Plus I lost 20 pounds and my BMI is 25
Maybe RSV might extend my lifespan by a couple of years if I am very very Lucky.
Posted 12 December 2007 - 02:58 AM
Missminni, that's a great story about your dad. I wish him the best of health.I've had nothing but positive effects as has my dad. My Morton's Neuroma is
non-existent and I can walk for miles without any signs of pain or discomfort.
Since adding the pure powder to his R300 routine, which was keeping him pain free for the balance of the day
(after his morning vicadan that he would take so he could get out of bed), which in itself was an excellent result,
my dad just had two days in a row where he awoke pain free with no need for his morning vicadan.
The joy in his voice is wonderful. He has hope for the future instead of despair.
He sees himself getting better instead of more infirmed. How many 92 year olds can report that kind of result with
any medication. His speech and thought are clear and precise. There is no druggy stupor as is usually the case with
pain killers, and his mood is excellent.
Call it placebo, call it coincidence, call it anecdotal, whatever you like...it's working.
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