2503 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

"This happens to be the one I bought"

What happened to the one you bought? Can you clarify what was happening?

 

Nothing was happening really that I could tell, nothing significant enough to attribute solidly to this protocol. This may be why. Though nothing negative has happened either. I think I posted earlier in this thread that while I felt great, I didn't notice anything significant enough to warrant crediting this protocol as a cause of it.

[cmpercell]

I have been using the saaqin brand mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

Using a candy thermometer, I heated water on the stove to a consistent 150F, placed an amount of the claimed stearic acid in a ziplock bag and placed it into the water.  60-70% of it melted. Stearic Acid shouldn't melt until around 156F.

 

This isn't very scientific, but am very excited about my early results using a variant of Turnbuckle's protocol.

 

I have reclaimed the solid portions from the oil with the assumption it is Stearic acid and will continue to use it.

[Fafner55]

This review article will be of interest to those following this thread.

 

“The role of mitochondria in stem cell fate and aging” (2018) https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29654217

[Graviton]

I have been using the saaqin brand mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

Using a candy thermometer, I heated water on the stove to a consistent 150F, placed an amount of the claimed stearic acid in a ziplock bag and placed it into the water.  60-70% of it melted. Stearic Acid shouldn't melt until around 156F.

 

This isn't very scientific, but am very excited about my early results using a variant of Turnbuckle's protocol.

 

I have reclaimed the solid portions from the oil with the assumption it is Stearic acid and will continue to use it.

 Does saaqin company stearic acid have its CoA on their website?

Nothing was happening really that I could tell, nothing significant enough to attribute solidly to this protocol. This may be why. Though nothing negative has happened either. I think I posted earlier in this thread that while I felt great, I didn't notice anything significant enough to warrant crediting this protocol as a cause of it.

Duda energy website has a link to CoA of stearic acid, and I wonder the review that you mentioned, which says that Duda energy stearic acid is not 99 percent stearic acid, but it also contains a significant amount of palmitic acid.

Can you link the source?

[cmpercell]

Graviton, my post was meant for the Mitochondrial Dynamics forum, but is still applicable here. 

 

In answer to your question, no.  They do mention on their website, but not the package, it is mainly from palm and coconut.  It also says for external use only.

 

I am not recommending the product and have intentions of throwing mine away after I find a replacement.  In the meantime, placing the flakes in a bag and bringing them up to the appropriate temperature seems to allow me to separate the bulk of the stearic acid from the palmitic and was posting in hopes it would be useful. 

 

Today was a fusion day for me and I did feel more comfortable after drinking my hot chocolate with the new concoction.

 

.

 

 

[QuestforLife]

Climactic posted this paper over on the manipulating mitochondrial dynamics thread

https://www.ncbi.nlm...40/#!po=34.2105

It's a really great paper, shows stearic acid works in Vivo with humans and even shows it works (max results at 3 hours post ingestion) heating up stearic acid in water in a microwave! (Supplementary info).

[lost69]

Turnbuckle

Update
I had to stop the protocol for rocephin antibiotic, the low range voice and singing was due to pharingitis and not the protocol.the range is still there up to soprano notes and was not changed by the protocol at all

Can i use 1g of hyaluronic acid during and a supplement called robinzyme supposed to increse hydrochloric acid and help with acid refux during the protocol days?i really need both to repair vocal folds after 1 month of this long pharyngitis
Robinzyme contains betaine 446mg, vegpeptase 25mg,papaine 25mg,protease 50mg, amylase 50mg ,lipase 15mg, cellulase 5mg, thiamine 10mg, vit b6 10mg, folate 900mcg, vit b12 500mcg

Thank you very much

[lost69]

Robinzyme also contains hydrochloric acid according to descrption but it is not mentioned among ingredients, it s taken at meals which are far from my protocol hours

[Turnbuckle]

Can i use 1g of hyaluronic acid during and a supplement called robinzyme supposed to increse hydrochloric acid and help with acid refux during the protocol days?i really need both to repair vocal folds after 1 month of this long pharyngitis
Robinzyme contains betaine 446mg, vegpeptase 25mg,papaine 25mg,protease 50mg, amylase 50mg ,lipase 15mg, cellulase 5mg, thiamine 10mg, vit b6 10mg, folate 900mcg, vit b12 500mcg

 

 

 

Likely half of all drugs will be affected by mito fusion or fission. And while fusion is known to protect mitochondria from the toxic effects of some drugs, I can't give you a definitive answer on all these ingredients. The main one--betaine (TMG)--will surely have an effect, however, and likely it will be positive--

 

In this study we investigated whether betaine directly targets mitochondria. We show that betaine treatment leads to an upregulation of mitochondrial respiration and cytochrome c oxidase activity in H2.35 cells, the proposed rate limiting enzyme of ETC in vivo. Following treatment, the mitochondrial membrane potential was increased and cellular energy levels were elevated. We propose that the anti-proliferative effects of betaine on cancer cells might be due to enhanced mitochondrial function contributing to a reversal of the Warburg effect.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../?term=25498545

 

 

The Warburg effect is where cancer cells act like stem cells, shutting down mitochondria and using glycolysis instead (though at a far higher rate than stem cells). And while waking up mitochondria is bad for cancer cells, it proliferates stem cells. Which is what we want.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 20 August 2018 - 09:08 AM.

[Kentavr]

Mango oil

Fatty acids present in mango fat^[9]

 

Fatty acid Percent

 

Palmitic acid, C16:0 5.5

Stearic acid, C18:0 40-45

Oleic Acid, C18:1 40-46

Linoleic Acid, C18:2 3-4

Arachidic acid, C20:0 2-2.5

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Mango_oil 

 

Maybe try this oil as a source of stearic acid?

Edited by Kentavr, 20 August 2018 - 09:27 PM.

[BelieveWeDoBetterTogether]

https://www.nature.c...467-018-05614-6

In this study, the participants took Stearic Acid as follows: "For the C18:0 drink, 24 g of C18:0 intended for human consumption (stearic acid, Sigma-Aldrich W303518) were mixed with 100 ml of low-fat milk. This amount of C18:0 was selected by calculating the C18:0 content of a high fat meal¹⁹. The mixture was microwaved to emulsify the fatty acid. One small banana was added and the whole mixture was homogenized with a hand blender. The volume was completed to 250 ml with more low-fat milk."

 

Questions

1. Are we taking enough Stearic Acid as they are taking 24g and we are only taking 10g?

2. Is the Sigma-Aldrich W303518 really intended for human consumption? I read about it on their website and it sounds like it is for engineering purposes as one use is a Phase Change Material which can be used in heatsinks to dissipate heat for a period of time until it melts since its melting temperature is very stable. It doesn't say anything about being used in banana milkshakes or in food. It says Reagent quality which appears to be that it meets the standard of a very high percentage of Stearic Acid. I have a vision of chemists in White Suits with Respirators to protect themselves making many chemicals some of which are very hazardous to human health in the same place they are making the Stearic Acid. Is my vision reality or is it truth that I should be concerned that some of the stuff in their W303518 could be hazardous to my health or is there a guarantee that this stuff is healthy for human consumption?

3. Would it be more prudent to stick with our 50%/50% Palmitic/Stearic food grade stuff that we can find on Amazon or some of the other food grade stuff that others are now posting that has less Palmitic, but a lot of other stuff that isn't Stearic Acid (i.e. Mango Oil and others)  OR is the W303518 the better option if the overriding factor is we want to give ourselves the highest probability of a long and healthy life with funding being no concern? The fact that they used the W303518 in the study is very compelling as you would hope that they would take all efforts to ensure they weren't going to kill the participants.

[Kentavr]

Halal Fatty Acids:

 

http://info.twinrive...atty-acids.html

[Graviton]

3. Would it be more prudent to stick with our 50%/50% Palmitic/Stearic food grade stuff that we can find on Amazon (...)

Which brand of stearic acid do you mean?

[Andey]

To not write the same thing again look at my post in Mitochondrial dynamics thread

https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=856092

Basically palmitic acid is not a problem in this settings as it doesn't get into the blood after a meal.

 

[BelieveWeDoBetterTogether]

To not write the same thing again look at my post in Mitochondrial dynamics thread

https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=856092

Basically palmitic acid is not a problem in this settings as it doesn't get into the blood after a meal.

Thanks for the help, Andey. Following that mitochondrial thread to see what the final verdict is. Really impressed with how smart and diligent the LongeCity participants are so that is really encouraging. Seems like it is NOT a good option to ingest palmitic acid from my reading. The Mango butter sounds like the best option thus far, but will continue to read what others are finding as well as doing my own research. Still can't get behind any Chemical company who is selling Stearic acid even if Turnbuckle seems fine with it until I see the words 'food grade' on a chemical company website. It just isn't worth the risk in my opinion and would take my chances with Palmitic acid instead of what those chemical companies are capable of adding in.

 

Three Justifications for Mango Butter

1. Kentavr: My assumption is that Mango Oil has the same composition as Mango Butter 

Mango oil

Fatty acids present in mango fat^[9]

 

Fatty acid Percent

 

Palmitic acid, C16:0 5.5

Stearic acid, C18:0 40-45

Oleic Acid, C18:1 40-46

Linoleic Acid, C18:2 3-4

Arachidic acid, C20:0 2-2.5

 

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Mango_oil 

 

Maybe try this oil as a source of stearic acid?

It is used in the food industry as a substitute for cocoa butter. 

 

 

The spread of the range of values (in%) for stearic acid is only 5% (from 40 to 45%)

 

The spread of the range of values (in%) for palmitic acid is practically absent (5.5%)

 

The ratio of palmitic acid: stearic acid = (40 - 45) : 5.5 = (7.27 - 8,18)  : 1 

 

2. Turnbuckle: "Stearic acid metabolizes to oleic anyway, so all in all mango butter looks healthier and better for this protocol than what is being sold as stearic acid. And because it melts at body temp, one could eat or drink it without bothering to cook it into anything."

 

3. Rarefried: "Zatural is selling a mango butter which it advertises as 'food grade.'  "PLUS TASTE (sic) DELICIOUS IN YOUR FAVORITE RECIPE!

 

https://zatural.com/...ic-mango-butter"

[Andey]

Thanks for the help, Andey. Following that mitochondrial thread to see what the final verdict is. Really impressed with how smart and diligent the LongeCity participants are so that is really encouraging. Seems like it is NOT a good option to ingest palmitic acid from my reading. The Mango butter sounds like the best option thus far, but will continue to read what others are finding as well as doing my own research. Still can't get behind any Chemical company who is selling Stearic acid even if Turnbuckle seems fine with it until I see the words 'food grade' on a chemical company website. It just isn't worth the risk in my opinion and would take my chances with Palmitic acid instead of what those chemical companies are capable of adding in.

 

 

 

  Yep, I would too search and buy a new source of stearic acid. My point is that people who took it before havent lost much while taking problematic "product"

[Hebbeh]

 

Mango oil

 

3. Rarefried: "Zatural is selling a mango butter which it advertises as 'food grade.'  "PLUS TASTE (sic) DELICIOUS IN YOUR FAVORITE RECIPE!

 

https://zatural.com/...ic-mango-butter"

 

See my post #1125 here: https://www.longecit...ynamics/page-38

[Galthaar]

About this kokum butter: http://www.kokumbutter.net/

 

I asked if it is edible, and received this answer:

 

"Hello,

 

Thanks for your email.

 

Our Unrefined, raw kokum butter is high in Stearic acid.

 

This butter is used for consumption and cooking traditionally in the Western Ghat natives. However our major clients use this butter for cosmetic purpose. 

 

Thus we do not have any experience in its usage as cooking oil though it is edible in nature.

 

Thanks"

 

 

[Galthaar]

Also, another option, this one from my country, CUPUAÇU BUTTER:

 

FATTY ACID COMPOSITION AND PHYSICAL-CHEMICAL DATA

The extracted oil from cupuaçu seeds offers fantastic properties for the cosmetic industry. The cupuaçu butter is a triglyceride that has a balanced composition of saturated and unsaturated fatty acids, which gives the product a low melting point (approximately 30 °C) and an appearance of a soft solid that penetrates quickly when in contact with skin. Cupuaçu butter posses a high capacity to absorb water, approximately 120% higher than that of lanolin, and can act as a plant-based substitute for it. It contains phytosterols (especially beta-sitosterol) that operate at the cellular level to regulate water balance and the activity of lipids in the superficial layer of the skin. Its ability to absorb large amounts of water can be attributed to the hydrogen bridges formed between the water molecules and phytosterols. Phytosterols have been used to treat dermatitis and disorders by stimulating the healing process.

[Turnbuckle]

The percent compositions are important, but keep in mind that natural oils are typically triglycerides. They will have a mix of stearic acid and other fatty acids in the same molecule, so that makes it difficult to separate them by simple methods. Triglycerides aren't absorbed as such. They are broken down during digestion into free fatty acids and glycerol. FFAs like oleic acid are absorbed in the 99% range, but stearic acid is less well absorbed. This depends on both the position of the stearate moiety in the triglyceride and the presence of other things in the diet. Calcium and magnesium, for instance, will form stearate soaps that won't be absorbed, potentially cutting total absorption in half. 

 

An old mouse study on absorption of mixed FFAs in mice that you can find in full on Sci-Hub.

 

[BelieveWeDoBetterTogether]

See my post #1125 here: https://www.longecit...ynamics/page-38

Thanks, Hebbeh. Definitely a valid concern about Mango butter originating from third world countries with poor sanitary conditions. Still hoping to find a good option for stearic acid, but it appears to be a very difficult challenge to produce it well.

[BelieveWeDoBetterTogether]

  Yep, I would too search and buy a new source of stearic acid. My point is that people who took it before havent lost much while taking problematic "product"

Thank you and agreed. Still feel OK about the HalalEveryday brand that I bought for now until a better option is determined. Would like to know what you think is the best source of stearic acid. 

[BelieveWeDoBetterTogether]

Which brand of stearic acid do you mean?

I bought HalalEveryday marked stearic acid bags which Ducky-001 measured to be about 50%/50% Stearic/Palmitic. I thought my brownies had 10g of Stearic Acid each, but it turns out it only had 5g Stearic Acid (Good) and 5g Palmitic Acid (Bad). The consensus seems to be that since the Palmitic Acid (Bad) is a eutectic mix with the Stearic Acid (Good), the human body should recognize the stearic acid (Good) and process the eutectic mix of the HalalEveryday better than if it was Palmitic acid (Bad) ONLY which it does not recognize so it goes straight into your body as fat which increases your risk for heart and other problems. Many participants on the site are trying to find the optimum option for Stearic Acid, but nothing has been unearthed to date.

[Heisok]

Hi. This might sound like a simple question, but does that mean to simply avoid those things or foods containing them before, and after the Stearic Acid? The Duda " mixture" actually emulsified well when it was mixed hot with lecithin, and blended with a stick blender which had been sitting in hot water. I will try that method when a good alternative is accepted. 

 

The percent compositions are important, but keep in mind that natural oils are typically triglycerides. They will have a mix of stearic acid and other fatty acids in the same molecule, so that makes it difficult to separate them by simple methods. Triglycerides aren't absorbed as such. They are broken down during digestion into free fatty acids and glycerol. FFAs like oleic acid are absorbed in the 99% range, but stearic acid is less well absorbed. This depends on both the position of the stearate moiety in the triglyceride and the presence of other things in the diet. Calcium and magnesium, for instance, will form stearate soaps that won't be absorbed, potentially cutting total absorption in half. 

 

An old mouse study on absorption of mixed FFAs in mice that you can find in full on Sci-Hub.

 

[QuestforLife]

 

As for hematopoietic stem cells, these apparently come in 2 varieties--

 

 

Thus the impact of this treatment for SCs already actively dividing is expected to be small, but much larger if the reserve source is expanded. 

 

 

A fascinating paper on the subject of hematopoietic stem cell transplants.

 

http://www.haematolo...tent/102/8/e321

 

Transplant from a donor caused a dramatic reduction in the epigenetic age of blood cells in the recipient in the first 6 months, to a minimum at 178 days post transplant (range varied from 86-692 days, interesting in itself), after which it accelerated up again at x2.4 the normal rate.

 

They attribute this acceleration to Graft vs host disease, present in some of the recipients - they were recovering leukemia patients after all, but to me this shows that the strong requirement for replacement cells eventually diffuses out the benefit of the epigenetically younger stem cells.

 

Perhaps they should have used Turnbuckle's protocol after the transplant!

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

They attribute this acceleration to Graft vs host disease, present in some of the recipients - they were recovering leukemia patients after all, but to me this shows that the strong requirement for replacement cells eventually diffuses out the benefit of the epigenetically younger stem cells.

 

 

Graft vs host is the best explanation, wiping out the epigenetically young somatic daughter cells. If the graft had been autologous, I expect the decrease in epigenetic age would have been permanent. But of course they couldn't do that in this case.

[QuestforLife]

Graft vs host is the best explanation, wiping out the epigenetically young somatic daughter cells. If the graft had been autologous, I expect the decrease in epigenetic age would have been permanent. But of course they couldn't do that in this case.

 

This line of thinking suggests it should be possible in the future to extract a sample of somatic cells from a person, revert them back to induced pluripotent stem cells using Yamananka (or other) factors, differentiate and expand them into the most important stem cell lineages (Hematopoietic, Mesenchymal, etc) and then re-engraft them. The resultant expansion into tissues should solve both epigenetic drift and telomere attrition contributions to aging. It might also be worth clearing old and senescent cells prior or post re-engraftment.  

[Turnbuckle]

This line of thinking suggests it should be possible in the future to extract a sample of somatic cells from a person, revert them back to induced pluripotent stem cells using Yamananka (or other) factors, differentiate and expand them into the most important stem cell lineages (Hematopoietic, Mesenchymal, etc) and then re-engraft them. The resultant expansion into tissues should solve both epigenetic drift and telomere attrition contributions to aging. It might also be worth clearing old and senescent cells prior or post re-engraftment.  

 

 

That's what this protocol avoids doing. By using your own adult stem cells that are already widely distributed in all the right places, you can duplicate them any number of times without the problems of injection that put too many in one place and not enough in others. The drawback is that adult stem cells are not pluripotent, thus must have some partial methylation (or histone modification) that prevents pluripotency. If these methylated genes also age epigenetically, daughter cells will have a mixed age, with some genes young and some old. But that's exactly what happens normally when stem cells differentiate to replace aged-out somatic cells, except here we are artificially accelerating the process.

 

I suspect, however, that there are pluropent cells still lurking in the body, and these have not been discovered due to their very small numbers. If supplying their specific nutritional needs--the amino acid threonine--promotes them at a greater rate than adult stem cells, then daughter cells from those pluripotent SCs will be fully age reversed and the average age of all genes will be brought down (though some a lot more than others).

[Galthaar]

The percent compositions are important, but keep in mind that natural oils are typically triglycerides. They will have a mix of stearic acid and other fatty acids in the same molecule, so that makes it difficult to separate them by simple methods. Triglycerides aren't absorbed as such. They are broken down during digestion into free fatty acids and glycerol. FFAs like oleic acid are absorbed in the 99% range, but stearic acid is less well absorbed. This depends on both the position of the stearate moiety in the triglyceride and the presence of other things in the diet. Calcium and magnesium, for instance, will form stearate soaps that won't be absorbed, potentially cutting total absorption in half. 

 

An old mouse study on absorption of mixed FFAs in mice that you can find in full on Sci-Hub.

 

 

 

So, acording to this, should be advantageous to look for 2-stearoyl diolein (oleic-stearic-oleic triglycerides), correct?

Edited by Galthaar, 23 August 2018 - 11:37 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

So, acording to this, should be advantageous to look for 2-stearoyl diolein (oleic-stearic-oleic triglycerides), correct?

 

 

My conclusions from that paper and other sources are--

 

1. Avoid SSS triglyceride, as it has very low absorption, and

2. Avoid ingesting calcium or magnesium at the same time.

 

As for using OSO for higher absorption, I don't see the need for that. If you use one type consistently, then you will get a consistent stearic acid dose even if you lose a certain amount each time. Stearic acid, cheap as it is, doesn't need to be conserved.