• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo

Elastin Promotion Protocol

elastin tropoelastin skin elasticity elastin tropoelastin dermarolling derma-rolling

  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#1 jgkyker

  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 25 February 2019 - 04:44 AM


Having noticed a few wrinkles on the brow in some video work I do, I decided to investigate ways to counter this.

 

From what I understand, elastin is mostly (or supremely) produced in our childhood (I need to do further research on this). If that is true, it may be only necessary to boost elastin production on an area-specific nature over short periods of time for long-term effects. In other words, I may only need to apply a plan of action for a few years, and the results may last for a decade or more.
 

Protocol

==== Collagen ====

  • Collagen boosting via Collagen Peptides (Hydrolyzed Collagen)
  • Derma-rolling face
    • 1.5 mm, every ~5 days
    • Boosts collagen production and also helps absorption of tropoelastin cream

==== Elastin ====

 

Studies:

The focus of this protocol is elastin. The collagen side of it is not the focus. If I find time to add the collagen research here, I will. I include the collagen side of this protocol only because I believe it is an important part of boosting skin health, in general.

 

 *** Tropoelastin ***

Design of an elastin-layered dermal regeneration template

This paper seems to indicate that exogenous application of tropoelastin can increase levels of elastin in human fibroblasts. Since elastin aging seems to be a major cause of wrinkles, boosting elastin in our skin may reduce wrinkles and potentially promote a more youthful appearance.

gr2.jpg

Explanation of the graphic from the study, "Elastogenesis at different ages. Comparison of elastin networks formed 7 days after tropoelastin addition to cultured dermal fibroblasts sourced from different age groups –neonatal (A), 10 (B), 31 ©, 51 (D) and 92 (E) years old. Confocal microscopy images were taken of cultures stained for elastin (green) and nuclei (blue). Scale bar = 50 μm. (For interpretation of the references to colour in this figure legend, the reader is referred to the web version of this article.)"

 

Conclusion A: If tropoelastin can get to the dermal layer, it will form elastin. The problem is a vehicle to get it to the dermal layer.

 

This product incorporates tropoelastin (synthetic) into a skin cream: https://www.proteing...m/skincare.html

Dermalastyl-B is also on Amazon for $70. (See above link at the top.)

 

The company only claims that it penetrates "deep into the epidermis." This means it may not get to the dermal layer. They also claim it continues to penetrate the epidermis for 24 hours.

 

Conclusion B: Using a dermal-roller may help the tropoelastin cream penetrate even more deeply into my skin, possibly increasing the chance for it to reach the dermis.

 

*** GABA ***

Dermal Effects of Oral Administration of GABA in Humans

"We investigated the effects of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) on facial skin conditions in humans. A placebo controlled, double-blind 8-week study of GABA (100 mg/day) was conducted on 36 women with dry skin, fatigue and sleep disorder. After 8 weeks, skin elasticity of the cheek was significantly higher in the GABA group than in the placebo group. Although improvement in sleep quality was observed in both groups, there was no significant difference between groups. These results suggest that ingestion of GABA increases skin elasticity."

GABA promotes elastin synthesis and elastin fiber formation in normal human dermal fibroblasts (HDFs).

"Finally, immunohistochemical analysis confirmed that treatment with GABA dramatically increased the formation of elastic fibers in HDFs. Taken together, our results showed that GABA improves skin elasticity in HDFs by upregulating elastin synthesis and elastin fiber formation."
 

Conclusion C: Orally taking 100 mg/day of GABA apparently can increase skin elasticity. It does this by promoting elastin fiber formation.

 

NOTE: The study done on 36 women is in Japanese. I do not know Japanese. If someone does, can they please read the full-text and comment on whether it looks legitimate. It seems very legitimate based on the abstract and the follow-up research (second study above).

 

WARNING -

GABA can have side effects, like shallow breathing. It appears a common dose is around 2-3 grams, probably best taken before bed, as this is usually used to enhance sleep. THIS IS WAY HIGHER THAN THE 100 MG IN THE ABOVE STUDY.

 

The brain uses GABA as "brakes" to control anxiety and other conditions where the brain is firing too much, when it shouldn't. Caffeine and marijuana are known to decrease GABA, and this is partially why they are thought to contribute to anxiety, in some people. (I can post studies if interested.) Consequently, GABA may be VERY dangerous to mess around with, due to the effect it may have on the brain. Despite that, supposedly it cannot cross the blood-brain barrier. If so, this is probably good. Whatever the case, it appears to be probably okay to take it for a couple of months for elastin generation, and maybe even long-term... Needs more research to determine length of use.

 

Toxicology information on GABA indicates it is safe, especially at the levels in this protocol:

Study of GABA in Healthy Volunteers: Pharmacokinetics and Pharmacodynamics

"Subjects with repeated dosing showed an elevated incidence of minor adverse events in comparison to placebo or the single dosing period, most notably transient discomforts such as dizziness and sore throat. However, there were no serious adverse events observed throughout the study. Our data show that GABA is rapidly absorbed and tolerated in human beings; its endocrine effects, exemplified by increasing islet hormonal secretion, suggest potential therapeutic benefits for diabetes."

NOTE: The adverse events were mostly noted in the subject receiving 2g three times a day. That is substantially more GABA than this protocol suggests.

 

Plan of Action:

1. After showering, disinfect derma-roller and roll against face.

2. Apply skin cream to face. Optimize the amount of time it is on my face. From what I understand, the cream will continue to work for 24+ hours. Therefore, the longer it remains on my skin, the better.

3. Take GABA and CP at bedtime every day.

 

Bonus Collagen Research (more needed probably):

One study found Collagen Peptides (CP) may help skin health.

"Daily CP supplementation may improve skin hydration and elasticity..."

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24131075


Edited by jgkyker, 25 February 2019 - 05:13 AM.

  • Informative x 2

#2 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 25 February 2019 - 04:50 AM

I forgot to mention my results.

 

I have only been on the protocol for about a week. I truly believe this is not enough time to see results. However, I actually believe I am seeing results. If you notice in the tropoelastin study, it only took a few days for elastin production to occur. Therefore, I suppose it is not impossible I am seeing results.

 

How would I define my results?

 

Well... I feel like I have more facial control. I know that sounds really weird but my skin feels tighter where I am applying the cream. That could just be due to the abrasions from the derma-roller? I'm not sure, but that is the best way I can describe it. It is more than that though. It is also like I have more control over my skin. For instance, I feel like I can move the skin in my forehead more than what I typically remember. In other words, it is almost like there is an ability to control the skin more. Maybe that is an effect of higher elastin/elasticity? I also feel like one of the major wrinkles in my forehead is beginning to flatten out.

 

NOTE: I have been on Collagen Peptides (CP) for almost a month. Elastin products have only been ongoing for about a week.

 

One other thing I have noticed lately is that my usual dry hands are less dry. They also seem to be less wrinkled. I am not applying the cream to my hands (yet). Therefore, this is either just an effect of CP or the GABA... or something else. I am on a lot of supplements...

 

Lastly, before everyone screams about the $70 cream (it is expensive), it comes in 2 oz. Since I am generally only applying it after derma-rolling, I expect this container to last quite a while... probably 3-4 months or more. I have to admit that in my excitement I have decided to apply it on days I am not derma-rolling too. However, I am really only applying it at most once every 2 days and probably more like every 3 days.


Edited by jgkyker, 25 February 2019 - 04:53 AM.


sponsored ad

  • Advert
Adverts help to support LongeCity's non-profit work. To go ad-free join as Member.

#3 Phoebus

  • Guest
  • 643 posts
  • 138
  • Location:Upper Midwest, US

Posted 25 February 2019 - 05:54 AM

thanks although I believe you put this in the wrong forum as you yourself are not selling anything nor are you discussing a particular retailer. 

 

This should go in the 'ageless looks' forum IMO 


  • Off-Topic x 1
  • like x 1

#4 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 25 February 2019 - 06:00 AM

thanks although I believe you put this in the wrong forum as you yourself are not selling anything nor are you discussing a particular retailer. 

 

This should go in the 'ageless looks' forum IMO 

 

Yes, this is my first thread on this site, and I believe I selected the wrong radio button when posting. I am definitely not selling any of this stuff.



#5 Phoebus

  • Guest
  • 643 posts
  • 138
  • Location:Upper Midwest, US

Posted 25 February 2019 - 07:52 PM

 

 

Lastly, before everyone screams about the $70 cream (it is expensive), it comes in 2 oz. Since I am generally only applying it after derma-rolling, I expect this container to last quite a while... probably 3-4 months or more. I have to admit that in my excitement I have decided to apply it on days I am not derma-rolling too. However, I am really only applying it at most once every 2 days and probably more like every 3 days.

 

 

Reading thru the ingredient list of that cream I see no mention of any penetration enhancers. As such I have my doubts this is getting very deep into the skin, although your derma rolling should help that. 

 

Can you get the active ingredient alone so as to make your own cream? 

 

EDIT: looks like you can buy it for quite a bit of money from chemical supply sites but doubtful you could get them to ship to a residential address. 


Edited by Phoebus, 25 February 2019 - 07:55 PM.


#6 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 25 February 2019 - 11:01 PM

Reading thru the ingredient list of that cream I see no mention of any penetration enhancers. As such I have my doubts this is getting very deep into the skin, although your derma rolling should help that. 

 

Can you get the active ingredient alone so as to make your own cream? 

 

EDIT: looks like you can buy it for quite a bit of money from chemical supply sites but doubtful you could get them to ship to a residential address. 

 

I'm actually surprised you found it. Intriguing. If I remember correctly, the company's website claims they created the synthesis process via DARPA funding. Apparently, there was a DARPA project to synthesize hard to find substances based on "recipes" derived from genome research. In other words, they discovered this substance I guess by researching the human genome, determined how to make it from the DNA sequences, and then made it. I believe they patented it too.

 

From the company's About Us page:
 

The basic genetic database of human biopolymers that give strength and elasticity to the lung, arteries, skin and other tissues can be accessed from the Human Genome Project. The Company supplements this information extensively with a collected private database of genetic sequences from human tissues. This private database guides the design of customized biopolymers such as elastin to increase their performance, strength, utility and appeal.

 

To manufacture the desired polymers in quantity, their design is incorporated into custom synthesized DNA and the DNA introduced into bacteria, yeasts or green plants, such as alfalfa. The new hosts read the introduced DNA and make the designed polymer in the host tissues in amounts of up to 1 gram per Kg dry weight of plants. Bacteria and yeasts are cuotivated by fermentation. The plants are cultivated hydroponically, harvested and the polymer extracted.

 

Sophisticated custom designed and manufactured biopolymers such as those developed by Protein Genomics are currently not offered for sale in any application, providing Protein Genomics unique opportunities in the marketplace.

 

 

If what they are saying is correct, tropoelastin is probably very difficult to create. Other nations surely figured out how to create it too though... They could just read the patent.

 

Patent page:

https://www.proteing...om/patents.html

 

The patent page is really interesting... and I may take a longer time to read through them. It looks like their research ended up in wound healing.

 

Here is one of the DARPA quotes:

https://www.proteing...astatropin.html

In response to a DARPA research requests, Protein Genomics began the production and evaluation of human Extracellular Matrix Proteins in new forms and quantities.

 

 

Another one:

https://www.proteing...wscff1.html?p=1

Elastatropin® was developed in response to DARPA’s tissue regeneration competition, we now expect to create a Medical Device solutions that help regenerate tissue and accelerate wound healing.

 

 

I was immediately suspicious when I came across this company because they were the only tropoelastin cream, anywhere. I searched around and found nothing, except their product. Consequently, I pretty much read their entire site trying to figure out how legit they are. I decided they are probably legit, but I could still be wrong, of course.

 

They have some research regarding the penetration of their cream. I'll see if I can find it. Even with that research, I still determined they were not confident it reached the dermal layer. On top of that, I believe their product was created maybe even a decade before the research paper I presented here. So, they may have somewhat given up on the product due to lack of popularity and are focused elsewhere, such as wound healing.


  • like x 1

#7 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 25 February 2019 - 11:09 PM

Active ingredients in the cream, via https://www.dermalas...ges/ingredients

 

Elastatropin is their synthesized tropoelastin.

 

And here is what they say about their product:

https://www.dermalas...p/pages/science

 

In collaboration with dermatologists at Thomas Jefferson University, we studied the ability of Elastatropin® to penetrate human skin. The findings were remarkable!

Key research findings about Elastatropin®:

  • Elastatropin® can penetrate living skin within 24 hours.
  • When applied to the epidermis of human skin, absorption of the Elastatropin® molecule occurred for 24 hours following application.
  • When skin was stained and studied under a microscope following application, tropoelastin could be seen penetrating into the epidermis.

 

 

I can't find the actual research on this. I sort of decided, since they were the only tropoelastin shop out there (it seemed to me), that I would give it a shot. I liked the backstory too, DARPA research, the patents, and the bios on their management page. It could all be rubbish, but unless I see a red flag, I'm giving it a shot.


So, in short, I guess they are saying tropoelastin is a penetration enhancer of its own.

 

However, I would REALLY like to see their actual research. I'm guessing they are keeping in private. :dry:


  • Informative x 1
  • like x 1

#8 Phoebus

  • Guest
  • 643 posts
  • 138
  • Location:Upper Midwest, US

Posted 25 February 2019 - 11:17 PM

Yes its intriguing for sure and disappointing that this is the one and only product with this chemical on the market. 

 

All of the amazon reviews seem to be from 5 years ago and it just never seemed to take off. 

 

With beauty products its SOOOO much about marketing and not so much about effectiveness. Lots of bullshit skin care products out there that selll like mad and do basically nothing. 


Edited by Phoebus, 25 February 2019 - 11:18 PM.

  • like x 1
  • Agree x 1

#9 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 25 February 2019 - 11:31 PM

One last thing I want to point out about the graphic I posted in the first post, it shows diminishing returns in aged cells. In other words, the cells from the 91 year old produced significantly less elastin in comparison to the cells from the 31 year old.

 

However, what I did not post is that those researchers figured out a way to counter this. They explain how they countered this in their paper. I did not include those details in the original post because the methods seemed inaccessible to a layman and/or inadequate for my purposes. For instance, those methods might work great for a 3rd degree burn victim, but not for someone with an intact epithelial layer.

 

I would GREATLY appreciate thoughts on that.

 

From the paper:

Using this model, we found that human dermal fibroblasts sourced from a wide range of donor ages (neonatal, 10, 31, 51 and 92 years old) can make elastic fibers when they are supplied with tropoelastin (Fig 2). However the fiber architecture changes with age; cells sourced from older age groups produce fewer, thicker and less branched fibers. This indicates that dermal treatments requiring repair or replacement of damaged elastic fiber networks in older individuals may be less effective.

 

 

On their method to counter the problem:

Given the ability of neonatal cells to produce extensive elastic fiber networks, we explored the effect of neonatal dermal fibroblast CM on elastogenesis. Fibroblasts were sourced from a 51-year old and treated with neonatal CM. Tropoelastin was then added to initiate elastogenesis.

 

 

And here is the graphic showing what happened:

 

gr3.jpg

Graphic text:

Enhanced elastogenesis through use of CM. Elastin fiber formation by dermal fibroblasts, sourced from either a 51 year old (A and B) or a neonatal © and cultured in FM (A and C) or CM (B) for 17 days. Tropoelastin was added on Day 10. Confocal microscopy images were taken of cultures stained for elastin (green; upper panel) and nuclei (blue; lower panel).

 

 

In short, graphic B is sourced from a 51 year old, and graphic C is neonatal. The 51 year old graphic (B) is very similar to the neonatal ©. Graphic A is also sourced from a 51 year old but it did not undergo the use of CM, and it did not produce networks like the neonatal did.


  • WellResearched x 1

#10 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 25 February 2019 - 11:35 PM

Yes its intriguing for sure and disappointing that this is the one and only product with this chemical on the market. 

 

All of the amazon reviews seem to be from 5 years ago and it just never seemed to take off. 

 

With beauty products its SOOOO much about marketing and not so much about effectiveness. Lots of bullshit skin care products out there that selll like mad and do basically nothing. 

 

Yes, exactly.

 

What I can tell you is I SWEAR I can move my forehead in this weird way that I don't remember. It is like I can snap it back or something. Granted, I never spent time trying this before attempting the protocol. So, who knows if it is new!?

 

This is partially why I wanted to wait on posting anything (like maybe another 3-4 weeks or so or even 3 months). I figure if the wrinkles disappear completely, well... I'll be sold. I'm not there yet, but it has only been about 8 days, and I have only derma-rolled twice. On top of that, I have only applied the cream 3 times. I haven't even started using the cream out of the container yet! I'm still using what was stuck to the lid.


Edited by jgkyker, 25 February 2019 - 11:41 PM.


#11 Arcanist

  • Guest
  • 15 posts
  • 8
  • Location:Germany
  • NO

Posted 26 February 2019 - 09:42 AM

Thanks for sharing your research and experiences here jg, I'll follow the thread.

 

How rigorously do you roll with the 1.5mm roller for application. And how long does the erythema last if I may ask?

 

 

 

 

8-[2-(2-Pentyl-cyclopropylmethyl)-cyclopropyl]-octanoic acid (DCP-L) has some publications that stae it stimulates Elastin in vivo.

But it's a patented compound hard to come by.

 

Red-Light LLT stimulates Elastin via mitochondrial actions. Methylene Blue was shown to act very similar to Red-Light effects in general, its skincare benefits are described also.

 

GABA might be worth a shot to apply topically with penetration enhancers like MSM, DMSO, Terpenes, Urea, Liposomes and so forth

 

Derm-Needling promotes elastin-formation itself


Edited by Arcanist, 26 February 2019 - 09:57 AM.

  • Informative x 2

#12 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 26 February 2019 - 02:47 PM

Thanks for sharing your research and experiences here jg, I'll follow the thread.

 

How rigorously do you roll with the 1.5mm roller for application. And how long does the erythema last if I may ask?

 

Hey, thanks for the extra info. I'll look into those a little more as time allows.

 

I do not vigorously roll. I just let the derma-roller make contact with the skin, and I apply light pressure. I then roll up, down, sideways, and diagonally over the area. I try to give myself a little pain, as that makes me feel like I'm doing something.

 

The entire process is rather laborious. However, I only am doing it about once a week. The erythema seems either non-existent or faint.

 

A few seasons ago, I tried derma-rolling my face just to see what would happen. That did not last but maybe 1-2 weeks, but during that time, I had one person ask me what I did to my cheek. So, apparently, there is obvious erythema present, and I may not notice it very easily. Based on that experience, I try to only derma-roll before a night's sleep, in the least, or preferably before a 12-24 hour period when I am not expected to see anyone. I believe the erythema fades after 24 hours, but this is likely dependent on the person.



#13 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 26 February 2019 - 03:07 PM

Intriguing, it appears there is a link between elastin formation and GABA regulation in studies I am seeing on DCP-LA. That is a curious pattern.

 

Now, my immediate thoughts on this are that I believe a good amount of GABA exists in the gut. If orally ingested GABA does not cross the blood-brain barrier, the second study dealing with mice brain activity is likely not particularly relevant. However, an alternative seems to present: maybe GABA can cross the blood-brain barrier, and either I misunderstand this or the research is not yet clear on this point.

 

Furthermore, they are applying this linoleic acid topically to the skin of mice. It seems that could still make its way to the brain, if it penetrates into the body, which it seems to be doing. So, could it be that applying this topically is enhancing GABA production, leading to more elastin production? I have no idea for certain, but the thought is intriguing... It could mean that taking GABA is just as effective as this DLP-LA because DLP-LA is doing something to spur GABA production. I know I'm reaching here, but I wanted to mention it.

 

PKCε Increases Extracellular Elastin and Fibulin-5/DANCE in Dermal Fibroblasts

In my earlier study, application of the selective PKCε activator 8-[2-(2-pentyl cyclopropylmethyl)-cyclopropyl]-octanoic acid (DCP-LA) to the dorsal skin of HR-1 hairless mice increased elastic fibres in the extracellular matrix of the dermis

 

 

8-[2-(2-pentyl-cyclopropylmethyl)-cyclopropyl]-octanoic acid stimulates GABA release from interneurons projecting to CA1 pyramidal neurons in the rat hippocampus via pre-synaptic alpha7 acetylcholine receptors.

Thus, the results of the present study indicate that DCP-LA stimulates GABA release by enhancing activity of pre-synaptic alpha7 ACh receptors present on the GABAergic terminals of interneurons that transmit to CA1 pyramidal neurons via a PKC pathway.


#14 Arcanist

  • Guest
  • 15 posts
  • 8
  • Location:Germany
  • NO

Posted 01 March 2019 - 09:56 AM

This topical  product uses 17% Gaba as an ingredient:

 

 

   https://www.amazon.c...t/dp/B002A60ZN4


  • like x 1

#15 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 01 March 2019 - 02:42 PM

I'm still taking everything, and I've applied the cream 5 times now. This last derma-roll, I decided to apply it immediately after, as usual, and the following night (no derma-roll). My cheeks and forehead are noticeably "stiff," if that is the word? I am now convinced that the feeling is from the derma-rolling, I guess? I am not 100% sure about that though. My forehead feels like it is getting firmer with every application. It almost feels as if I have my hands up there, forcing my skin to expand. This is why I wonder if this stuff is actually working?! Higher skin elasticity would maybe cause the same kind of feeling.

 

The biggest reinforcement is I still feel like some of the wrinkles are flattening out. If the skin is starting to flatten, it will probably take a while to undo wrinkles caused over many years. I understand the new skin cells make it to the surface after about 30 days or so, at my age. So, in the least, I may not see any results until then. Even though I am pushing elastin, I am also pushing collagen. The two together probably will provide some synergistic effect. If the elastin stretches back the skin, maybe new skin cells will not form into wrinkles as easily, and it is just a matter of going through 6-12 "skin cycles."


Edited by jgkyker, 01 March 2019 - 02:42 PM.


#16 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 03 March 2019 - 03:38 AM

Methylene Blue was shown to act very similar to Red-Light effects in general, its skincare benefits are described also.

 

I checked out Methylene Blue, and I found two important things, for me. It is a prescription drug in the U.S., and it is an MAOI. I avoid anti-depressants like the plague, especially those with heavy interaction issues, such as MAOIs. Therefore, this one is out for me. Even if I decided it was worthwhile (in light of how dangerous it appears to be), I would not be able to get any anyway, due to the prescription requirement.

 

I was investigating some side research on pseudoephedrine, and apparently, anyone taking an MAOI with OTC pseudoephedrine risks DEATH! That is enough to keep me very far away from methylene blue.

 

From WebMD's pseuoephedrine interactions page:

 

Taking MAO inhibitors with this medication may cause a serious (possibly fatal) drug interaction. Avoid taking MAO inhibitors (isocarboxazid, linezolid, methylene blue, moclobemide, phenelzine, procarbazine, rasagiline, safinamide, selegiline, tranylcypromine) during treatment with this medication. Most MAO inhibitors should also not be taken for two weeks before treatment with this medication. Ask your doctor when to start or stop taking this medication.

 


Edited by jgkyker, 03 March 2019 - 03:41 AM.

  • Ill informed x 1

#17 Arcanist

  • Guest
  • 15 posts
  • 8
  • Location:Germany
  • NO

Posted 03 March 2019 - 11:30 AM

Yes, oral MB seems not without risk. I was reffering to the skin-benefits of topical MB though, which are achieved in very tiny doses already (in vitro that is, don't how and if they translate to actual facial application).

 

 

Speaking of topical application of tiny doses:

 

GABA as we discussed was shown to increae Elastin via oral doses of only 100mg.

 

The scientists tried to eludicate the mechanisms and incubated cells in vitro with GABA (full study):

https://www.tandfonl...51.2017.1290518

 

 

It turned it effective in increasing Elastin with this in vitro incubation of cells which might hint at potential topical effects of GABA as well. Which would be great for us if we could use both

oral and topical GABA to increase Elastin.

They also examined possible cytotoxic effects of various dose ranges which is standard and good üractice, here is what they found:

 

Statistical analysis.All results were presented asmeans ± SD of three independent experiments, andsignificant differences (p< 0.05) were evaluated byTukeys multiple comparison test.9)ResultsEffect of GABA on the cell proliferation of HDFsThe cytotoxic effects of GABA on HDFs were eval-uated using a cell proliferation assay. As shown inFig.1, both chemosynthesized and biosynthesizedGABA at concentrations of 0.01, 0.1, 1 and 10μg/mLhad no cytotoxic effects on the proliferation of HDFswith incubation for 24 h. However, incubation with100μg/mL of chemosynthesized and biosynthesizedGABA significantly decreased the cell viability ofHDFs (Fig.1). Thus, 0.0110μg/mL of chemosynthe-sized and biosynthesized GABA was used in further experiments.

 

So, 10 microgramm/ml is the maximum dose for incubated cells. I don't know how that would translate to topical GABA-concentrations in a cream or Serum, but it cannot be much? Which is both cost-efficient but maybe also tricky. Anybody around at Longecity who has knowledge in this field?

 

 

 

 


  • Informative x 1

#18 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 03 March 2019 - 06:08 PM

So, 10 microgramm/ml is the maximum dose for incubated cells. I don't know how that would translate to topical GABA-concentrations in a cream or Serum, but it cannot be much? Which is both cost-efficient but maybe also tricky. Anybody around at Longecity who has knowledge in this field?

 

Excellent thoughts. Thank you for the GABA study.

 

There seems to be two concerns here.

 

1. Can GABA concentrated cream/serum penetrate the thick epithelial layer to reach the dermis? If not, is there a way to accomplish this.

 

2. What amount would actually penetrate into the dermis?

 

I know that a few vehicles have been mentioned here to perhaps accomplish #1, but I have no way to determine this for certain, outside of experimentation. Considering there is a toxicity effect to be concerned about now, I am reluctant to experiment.

 

What may be a better question is:

 

3. Is 10 mcg/mL a ridiculously high concentration or something realistic?

 

For instance, I have noticed on some of these toxicology tests they inflict a ridiculously high amount of the substance, or they keep increasing the dose until something dies. If this is a ridiculously high concentration, knowing that could relieve some concern with personal experimentation.

 

It is either that or wait for a study to answer the first two questions, I suppose.
 



#19 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 03 March 2019 - 06:15 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention one more thing.

 

On off days, I am using this Aveeno product to combat general dryness due to cold weather, aging, etc. I don't apply it religiously, just generally after showering, and only when I do not derma-roll.

 

I noticed this morning that my facial skin felt SUPER smooth. In fact, I cannot remember it feeling this smooth, ever. It was pronounced and unusual. This was before applying any lotion and even after showering (which usually dries out my skin).


Edited by jgkyker, 03 March 2019 - 06:16 PM.


#20 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 04 March 2019 - 05:23 AM

I'm beginning to realize that the oral GABA promotion of elastin may be more beneficial than just skin. Elastin is used heavily throughout the body. It is a very practical target for anti-aging, it seems, as it is involved in our veins, lungs, ligaments, and even other organs.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Elastin serves an important function in arteries as a medium for pressure wave propagation to help blood flow and is particularly abundant in large elastic blood vessels such as the aorta. Elastin is also very important in the lungs, elastic ligaments, elastic cartilage, the skin, and the bladder. It is present in all vertebrates above the jawless fish.

 

 

According to this study, 40%+ of the arterial load is handled by elastin in neonatal calves. One off thought that has occurred is whether enhancing elastin could have some effect on blood pressure. I'm not concerned with it, but it probably is a good idea for me to check my blood pressure anyway. It has been a couple of months.

 

Comparison between fresh and digested tissues shows that, at 35% strain, a minimum of 48% of the arterial load is carried by elastin, and a minimum of 43% of the change in stiffness of arterial tissue is due to the change in elastin stiffness.

 

 



#21 Arcanist

  • Guest
  • 15 posts
  • 8
  • Location:Germany
  • NO

Posted 04 March 2019 - 09:36 AM

I've also thought about systemic upregulation of Elastin-transcription by oral GABA, seems beneficial on a first glance.

 

Your Avenoo product I'm a bit skeptical about. If heavily feature silicones and similar derivates. Most high-end cosmetics carry them, but why? Not becuase they ahave superior care or ant-age qualities, but haptical and optical. They make the skin seem incredibly smooth and look mat and moist, but that's because they "stick" onto the skin and form a film of sorts. They are suspected to impair skin-metablism and respiration though and I think tere is truth to it given how stubbornly they plaster the skin.

 

 

Topical GABA woud penetrate mixed into a common emulsion. The molecular weigth i small enough. I use Glycine and Taurine too topical, it works.


  • like x 1

#22 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 04 March 2019 - 03:22 PM

I've also thought about systemic upregulation of Elastin-transcription by oral GABA, seems beneficial on a first glance.

 

Your Avenoo product I'm a bit skeptical about. If heavily feature silicones and similar derivates. Most high-end cosmetics carry them, but why? Not becuase they ahave superior care or ant-age qualities, but haptical and optical. They make the skin seem incredibly smooth and look mat and moist, but that's because they "stick" onto the skin and form a film of sorts. They are suspected to impair skin-metablism and respiration though and I think tere is truth to it given how stubbornly they plaster the skin.

 

 

Topical GABA woud penetrate mixed into a common emulsion. The molecular weigth i small enough. I use Glycine and Taurine too topical, it works.

 

Yes, I need to clarify that I do not expect the Aveeno product to promote elastin or anything of that nature. The only reason why I use it is to eliminate dry skin on days I'm not derma-rolling. I'll definitely investigate the possibility of it causing more harm than good though! For some reason, I find it hardly surprising.

 

I know that others have stated that derma-rolling with Lysine seemed to do something for them. I'm not really ready to begin doing any topical amino acid use. However, I will investigate the idea further, when possible.
 



#23 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 06 March 2019 - 08:09 PM

I've been doing some unrelated side research, and I came across a paper that describes the dynamics of absorption of a substance into the skin. I thought I would go ahead and post that for reference.

 

From Myth or Reality—Transdermal Magnesium?

The skin is the largest organ of the body, covering about 1.8 m2 and comprising approximately 10% of the total body mass of an average person. The primary function of the skin is to provide a barrier between the body and the external environment. This barrier protects against the permeation of ultraviolet (UV) radiation, chemicals, allergens and microorganisms, in addition to the loss of moisture and body nutrients [8]. This means that the absorptive capacity of healthy skin for substances from the outside is very limited. This becomes evident particularly in the limited application for topical drugs. To get through the skin, a substance must penetrate the epidermis or has to be absorbed by sweat glands or hair follicles. The stratum corneum is the outermost layer of the epidermis consisting of dead cells (corneocytes). This layer is composed of about 15 to 20 layers of flattened cells with no nuclei and cell organelles. Their cytoplasm shows filamentous keratin. These corneocytes are embedded in a lipid matrix composed of ceramides, cholesterol, and fatty acids. The stratum corneum functions to form a water-repellent barrier to protect underlying tissue from infection, dehydration, chemicals and mechanical stress [9]. Overcoming this layer in significant quantities is only possible for lipophilic substances.

 

As a side note, I found this study that appears very relevant. I will be reading it completely when time allows:

Neocollagenesis and Neoelastinogenesis: From the Laboratory to the Clinic

 

Abstract

An internet search was made looking for articles about chemical and physical modalities that are known to induce collagen and elastin formation. Textbooks, independent articles, journals and books on pathology, biochemistry, aesthetic medicine and cosmetic and plastic surgery were used as references. Here, we take a look at various studies, in vitro and in vivo, that lend credence to the products and procedures used in clinical practice to induce neocollagenesis and neoelastinogenesis.

 


Edited by jgkyker, 06 March 2019 - 08:09 PM.


#24 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 06 March 2019 - 08:34 PM

How rigorously do you roll with the 1.5mm roller for application. And how long does the erythema last if I may ask?
 
I wanted to comment on this again, as I paid more attention yesterday when rolling. I gave it a little more pressure than usual, and I ended with erythema all over my face. It was mildly painful. By the time I woke up this morning, the redness had faded. So, it seems the erythma is only lasting, for the most part in me, about 9-11 hours.
 
I will also say that today, I still feel that tight skin feeling that I mentioned on previous applications. However, it is far less noticeably and pronounced now. So, either my skin is toughening up to the abrasions, or I am getting used to it.
 
At this time, I am on my 3rd week, approximately, of this protocol, and I do not notice any dramatic effects. There are many times I look in the mirror and feel like I am improving. On the other hand, I felt the other way once, as if I was going backwards. As all this is happening, I have these thoughts, here and there, that my face is becoming more controlled and consequently expressive. Is it all in my head? It is hard to tell.
 
What I know for certain is there are defined wrinkles in my forehead, and they are still there. They do not seem to have changed substantially since I began watching them like a hawk post-application.
 
My thoughts continue to be that this will take perhaps months of applications for any significant result, and I intend to continue to stick with it.

Edited by jgkyker, 06 March 2019 - 08:35 PM.


#25 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 08 March 2019 - 01:20 AM

This evening, I feel like the "tightness" in my facial skin is back, particularly around the forehead. Last night, I applied another round of the cream without derma-rolling. So, it may just take a couple of days for the cream to set in. I do not know.

 

At this point, I am doing this:

  • GABA orally every night 20 minutes before sleep, 200-400 mg (it is tough to measure precisely as 1/8 tsp is 750 mg)
  • Derma-rolling once a week on Tuesday nights and an application of the tropoelastin cream
  • An additional application of the tropoelastin cream on Wednesday night
  • Also, 12g of collagen peptides every night, 20 minutes before sleep

 


Edited by jgkyker, 08 March 2019 - 01:22 AM.


#26 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 08 March 2019 - 01:31 AM

Here is another great reason to promote tropoelastin, particularly through GABA orally, it is powerful pro-proliferative for stem cells!

 

Soluble matrix protein is a potent modulator of mesenchymal stem cell performance

 

Extracellular matrix proteins have primarily been designated as supporting scaffolds for cells. This work presents the soluble extracellular matrix component tropoelastin as a powerful proproliferative and cell-attractive molecule that surpasses the potency of conventional growth factors and matrix proteins used in a mesenchymal stem cell (MSC) culture. Tropoelastin is also demonstrated to modulate MSCs both as a substrate coating and as a soluble additive in media, which significantly deviates from the classical dogma of cell anchorage-dependent structural roles of the matrix. We show that these activities of tropoelastin can be harnessed and establish a path to boosting the efficacy of and simplifying processes for clinical MSC expansion and therapeutic MSC recruitment.

 

Intriguing...


Edited by jgkyker, 08 March 2019 - 01:31 AM.

  • Informative x 1

#27 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 08 March 2019 - 01:33 AM

From the study in the first post:

 

 

Real-time PCR indicated that GABA significantly increased the expression of tropoelastin transcript in a dose-dependent manner.

 



#28 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 08 March 2019 - 04:37 PM

 

Having pondered this further and considering the toxicology studies, I have decided to up my dose of GABA from 200-400 mg before bedtime to 1.5 g.


  • like x 1

#29 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 14 March 2019 - 04:48 AM

This is the beginning of the 4th week, and the forehead wrinkles seem to have actually become slightly worse rather than better. Will probably post updates on a bi-weekly basis, at this point, as I continue the protocol. If something of note occurs, I will mention it.


  • Informative x 1

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Adverts help to support LongeCity's non-profit work. To go ad-free join as Member.

#30 jgkyker

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 90 posts
  • 35
  • Location:Near Kansas City, U.S.

Posted 22 March 2019 - 11:47 PM

It has been about a week and a half since my last update. I've completed about 6 weeks of the protocol now. Still no obvious progress, in my mind, on any visible wrinkles. There was one day, though, where I did think that one of the largest wrinkles had sort of split, having half (a side) where it seemed fainter.

 

Aside from that, I do still believe my face is more expressive now. I feel like I can move it in ways I never knew. That could just be subjective, but I still want to report it.

 

I can report no negative side effects, as far as I know, of the increased dose of GABA.

 

I am seeing increased hair growth and even regrowth below the front hairline. However, I am more apt to blame the collagen peptides and C60/fusion promoters for that. The reason I do is because Turnbuckle, among others, have experienced hair growth as well on C60-like protocols. For more information on that, see my posts here and here.

 

Lastly, I still have quite a lot of the $70 cream left. I have barely made a dent in it, understandably so. Since, I am only applying it 2X a week, more or less (as aforementioned).


  • Informative x 3



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: elastin tropoelastin skin elasticity, elastin, tropoelastin, dermarolling, derma-rolling

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users