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Help me understand neurotoxicity from GHB/GBL

ghb gbl

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#1 illerrre

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Posted 27 March 2019 - 02:01 PM


Hey guys,

Since I discovered GHB (actually GBL since that's what I've been using) 10 years ago I instantly replaced this with alcohol at parties. I drank it about once a week. 

Then for about 3 years or so I started using it more frequently, about 3 times a week. I thought it was more or less harmless as I never read anything bad about it. 

Then I came accross the study that says it's neurotoxic in rats. This had me lowering the frequency to about every fifth day and had a part of me wanting to quit entirely.

I love living life though and it's really nice to get a small buzz every now and then. I feel like it makes life less repetitive and it can really motivate me to do tasks as well.

So here I am making this thread because I would really like to hear some input on the neurotoxicity. To be honest, I don't even understand what this means and what damage the GBL could potentially do to me. Does it affect memory, problem solving and focus or what risks am I taking? How likely is it that the rat study is transferable to humans? For the sake of my health, maybe it's better I just accept the fact that my life would be better without it?



#2 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 28 March 2019 - 02:12 PM

I had a very, VERY quick look at this, and as far as I can see, the studies in humans are NOT conclusive on the potential neurotoxicity of GHB - sometimes the rat-studies carries over, sometimes they do not.

 

What I did find though, is that references to the coma's one can be induced into, by GHB over-dose, is chronic damage to both the Pre-Frontal Cortex as well as the Hippocampus - this is in line with other gabaergic drugs like Alcohol and Benzo's.

 

 

Oddly enough, I also noted that apparently GHB non-coma damage, seems to follow a similar dose-dependent effect - the LOW doses, which cause the euphoria, actually causes more long-term neurotoxicity than the higher, more sedating dosages. Obviously that's not the whole story though, since if you OD and go into a coma, you end up with fairly massive damage.

 

I suggest you look into Ketamine and its analogues instead of Gaba-ergics - they are more sustainable neurologically long-term (neurotrophic, the opposite of neurotoxicity), and I believe some of the analogues have less harmful effects on the bladder. Low-dose Ketamine is actually similar to Alcohol, much like GHB. (word of caution though... dosing is finicky, if you take too much, you'll end up with hallucinations and irrational behaviour)

 

EDIT:

This reddit-post mentions that the studies have found that neurotoxicity may be caused by the pre-enzymatic (something which triggers another, more complex process/production in your body) process called capsase-3.

 

https://www.reddit.c...b_neurotoxcity/

 

If you really, really can't ever quit GHB, I suppose a Caspase-3 inhibitor might be useful... it's rather experimental stuff though - but, there are MANY discovered, actually. Have a look at these compounds:

 

https://www.scbt.com...tors/_/N-k9h6xj

 

 


Edited by Mind_Paralysis, 28 March 2019 - 02:19 PM.


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#3 illerrre

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 03:17 PM

Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it.

It sounds really bad with chronic damage to parts of your brain. I'm not sure what is considered to be coma here, but when I was young and inexperienced with the drug I often dosed too much which resulted in "blackouts" for an hour or so. I wasn't in a coma, but you're that gone that you don't understand what's really going on. I think anyone who have overdosed knows what I'm talking about. 

I think it's better for me to just stop with it completely. Right now I'm using a lot of caffeine to boost productivity and motivation, but that's not really optimal for your health either. 



#4 platypus

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 04:25 PM

It can also be seriously addictive, possibly more than alcohol, at least for some users.  



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#5 illerrre

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 08:28 PM

It can also be seriously addictive, possibly more than alcohol, at least for some users.  

Are you talking about GHB or Caffeine? 

Caffeine I've been addicted to several times and tolerance builds up quickly when using it every day. 

GHB I know can be super addictive but never had a problem with it as I never used more often than 3 times a week. 







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