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Antioxident apocynin for skin rejuvenation

rejuvenation col17a1 y27632 apocynin

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#31 Rocket

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 12:59 AM

I am more interested because of its arteriosclerosis benefits!

#32 Phoebus

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 02:43 PM

update? 


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#33 granmasutensil

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 10:39 AM

Interested in an update also.



#34 Turnbuckle

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 11:03 AM

Here is the original paper: https://www.nature.c...tform=hootsuite

 

 

You can get around the paywall here-- https://sci-hub.se/1...1586-019-1085-7


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#35 Phoebus

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 04:38 PM

so I guess this never happened 

 

bummer 

 



#36 Meredith Wesley

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 07:54 AM

Can it make people's skin younger?



#37 granmasutensil

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 10:01 PM

Can it make people's skin younger?

 

That's the claim. I've added it to my face serum and used it for a month. After around 2-3 days noticed a difference in skin tone. It was quite noticeable so I think that is noteworthy to mention it actually did do something which many times isn't the case with most skincare.  Looks more refreshed like a person has had a lot of rest and been on a cleanse is the best way I know how to describe it. I have no wrinkles or other issues along the lines of mature skin aging since I've always taken care of my skin. Just dark circles. After a month skin has slightly tightened and firmed up, and a little less puffy perhaps. But like I said wasn't dealing with anything where big results would happen anyways. But for the price and amount used it's quite economical regardless. A person could use it generously even in a body spray thats just water everyday for probably 2 years and still have material left. Wish there was more discussion on this...
 


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#38 Phoebus

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 01:12 AM

That's the claim. I've added it to my face serum and used it for a month. After around 2-3 days noticed a difference in skin tone. It was quite noticeable so I think that is noteworthy to mention it actually did do something which many times isn't the case with most skincare.  Looks more refreshed like a person has had a lot of rest and been on a cleanse is the best way I know how to describe it. I have no wrinkles or other issues along the lines of mature skin aging since I've always taken care of my skin. Just dark circles. After a month skin has slightly tightened and firmed up, and a little less puffy perhaps. But like I said wasn't dealing with anything where big results would happen anyways. But for the price and amount used it's quite economical regardless. A person could use it generously even in a body spray thats just water everyday for probably 2 years and still have material left. Wish there was more discussion on this...
 

 

where did you buy it from? 



#39 Meredith Wesley

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 08:22 AM

I contacted some suppliers and found that its purity is different.Should I choose high purity or low?



#40 granmasutensil

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 11:35 AM

where did you buy it from? 

 

https://www.ebay.com...353.m2749.l2649
 


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#41 Meredith Wesley

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Posted 26 July 2019 - 01:44 AM

I found a supplier to be very pure but not available to patients.It can only be used as research.

https://www.medcheme...m/Apocynin.html



#42 aribadabar

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Posted 26 July 2019 - 03:57 PM

That's the claim. I've added it to my face serum and used it for a month. After around 2-3 days noticed a difference in skin tone. It was quite noticeable so I think that is noteworthy to mention it actually did do something which many times isn't the case with most skincare.  Looks more refreshed like a person has had a lot of rest and been on a cleanse is the best way I know how to describe it. I have no wrinkles or other issues along the lines of mature skin aging since I've always taken care of my skin. Just dark circles. After a month skin has slightly tightened and firmed up, and a little less puffy perhaps. But like I said wasn't dealing with anything where big results would happen anyways. But for the price and amount used it's quite economical regardless. A person could use it generously even in a body spray thats just water everyday for probably 2 years and still have material left. Wish there was more discussion on this...
 

 

Would you share your "recipe" - how many grams Apocynin into how many ml of serum?



#43 Fafner55

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Posted 17 August 2019 - 04:26 PM

Self Experiments with Apocynin

Apocynin has been demonstrated to 

  1. improve wound healing by promoting stem cell proliferation (topical 100 μM apocynin solution in 0.5% DMSO). “Stem cell competition orchestrates skin homeostasis and ageing” (2019) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1085-7
  2. Increase the expression on Yamanaka factors Oct4, Sox2, Klf4 and c-Myc and promote stem cell self-renewal (in vitro 100 μM apocynin solution in 0.5% DMSO; in vivo IP injection).  “Apocynin suppression of NADPH oxidase reverses the aging process in mesenchymal stem cells to promote osteogenesis and increase bone mass” (2015) https://www.nature.com/articles/srep18572

 

To assess the potential of apocynin to improve skin I tested topical solutions of it on my left forearm while using my right arm as the control. At 64 years old, the insides of my forearms have a crepy, wrinkled appearance and any improvement should be readily apparent.

 

In 3 different experiments there was no apparent change in my skin from topical solutions of apocynin.

 

 

Experiment #1

Hypothesis; Apocynin, applied topically, will improve the skin quality by increasing the number of epidermal stem cells. 

Design: Apply a topical 200 μM apocynin solution in 0.5% DMSO  3x/day to my left forearm. Use the right arm as the control.

Result: After 5 weeks of daily application there was no observable change.

 

Experiment #2

Hypothesis: Experiment #1 was not successful because either the concentration was too low or the absorption was too poor. Improving both could give better results.

Design: Apply a topical 1600 μM apocynin in 0.5% DMSO in solution with 0.25% hyaluronic acid and 3% propylene glycol 2x/day to my left forearm. Use the right arm as the control.

Result:  After 4 weeks of daily application there was no observable change.

 

Experiment #3

Hypothesis: Previous experiments were unsuccessful because a wound healing response is needed to increase stem cell proliferation.

Design: Daily, apply a 12% ammonium lactate lotion to the right arm, wait 15 minutes then shower it off. Ammonium lactate lotion causes a superficial chemical peel that is reputed to be effective in removing dark spots and small keratoses. The removal of skin cells will affect a mild wound healing response that increases the rate of skin turnover and promotes the production of natural elastin and collagen. Then, apply a topical 3200 μM apocynin in solution with 0.5% DMSO, 0.25% hyaluronic acid and 3% propylene glycol 2x/day to my left forearm. Use the right arm as the control.

Result: After 3 weeks of daily application there was no observed benefits to the ammonium lactate lotion +  apocynin arm (left) compared to ammonium lactate lotion only arm (right). The appearance of both arms improved (reduced age spots and scar tissue but not much reduction in wrinkles) from the ammonium lactate lotion alone.

 

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#44 Engadin

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 01:03 PM

Hi Fafner55,

 

are you using water to dilute DMSO?. I can't get it clear from the posts above. If not, no need to go ahead reading. If yes, perhaps you are not getting the expected results because:

 

"(An) important fact is that when water (perhaps by accident) is present as a cosolvent in the formulation, the penetration kinetics of DMSO are greatly diminished."

 

S O U R C E :    Pharmaceutical Technology_Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO)

 

Go to the first paragraph of the last page.

 

Engadin.


Edited by Engadin, 19 August 2019 - 01:04 PM.

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#45 Fafner55

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 05:00 PM

are you using water to dilute DMSO?.

 

As has been common in research on apocynin, I mixed apocynin with DMSO then diluted it with water to a 0.5% DMSO solution. The result was watery, and while it may have had good absorption in an open wound, I found in experiment #1 that it evaporated quickly and probably had poor skin absorption. I tried to address the absorption issue in successive experiments by increasing the apocynin dose and adding hyaluronic acid and  propylene glycol while keeping the 0.5% DMSO constant.

 

On a side note that may be of interest, apocynin is sparingly soluble in water at room temperature but above 63°C its solubility in water is quite good. I tried making liposomal apocynin (17.5% apocynin, 17.5% soybean lecithin, 10% ethanol, 55% water) at 65°C and found that most of the apocynin precipitated out afterwards when cooled to room temperature. The taste of the remainder is indescribably awful.


Edited by Fafner55, 19 August 2019 - 05:30 PM.

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#46 granmasutensil

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 06:26 PM

Would you share your "recipe" - how many grams Apocynin into how many ml of serum?

 

Sure it's pretty simple. I have a mg scale and put 30 mg in 10ml of water in one of those 30ml plastic measuring cups for liquid medicine they give away at the pharmacy. Put that in a hot water bath in a bowl or pyrex and stir. It dissolves much easier when warmed up. Then put 0.33ml of that still warm solution into a serum while stiring. That way it is dispersed fast before it can drop out of solution and is suspended in the serum. I just use one of those 1ml plastic syringes they give for free at a pharmacy. 0.33ml will give 1mg of apocynin which is the amount for 2 ounces/60ml of serum. But I personally just put it in 1 ounce given absorption is probably not the best in the first place. I use a little hand held mini paint mixer that I use just for mixing cosmetics. It does a very good job and the tip is very small you can fit it right into the openings of 1ounce serum dropper bottles that's how small it is. Not sure if a person could mix good enough by hand to get it dispersed well before it drops out of solution so I just use mixer. There are other mini ones but the tips are a lot bigger, the ones with the mini tip they are shaped like a tiny star or like hoya flowers that haven't opened.

 

https://www.amazon.c...=gateway&sr=8-6


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#47 QuestforLife

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 02:40 PM

Self Experiments with Apocynin

 

Result:  After 4 weeks of daily application there was no observable change.

 

 

Might using a dermaroller enhance the delivery into the skin and supply the necessary inflammatory signalling to trigger skin rejuvenation?


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#48 illerrre

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:11 PM

Do we have any updates? 

 

Anyone else experimented with it?

 

Any results worth sharing?

 

Anyone know where one can get this in Europe?



#49 OP2040

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:37 PM

I'm in as well for a group buy.  I wish it was orally available as I'm even more interested in it as a NOX inhibitor.



#50 Fafa

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 09:58 PM

I'm in as well for a group buy.  I wish it was orally available as I'm even more interested in it as a NOX inhibitor.

 

There seems to be a lot of uncertainty about how to use apocynin, as well as where to get it. First of all, it's readily available on Ebay, from a supplier I believe to be entirely reliable. My experience with them has been completely positive. After all, Ebay businesses live or die on their reviews. Best of all, it's cheap. You can obtain 10g of 99.5% apocynin in powder form for $20. They supply a 100 mg spoon with each order, which, if used, will then give you a supply equivalent to 100 100mg capsules.

 

Many here seem to be fixated on the idea of getting apocynin directly through the skin. While I can certainly understand the motivation : ) --and I fully intend to work out a suitable technique to experiment similarly myself ---the simple truth is that it can easily be taken orally as well, and probably to better effect anyway. I found it to be more or less tasteless, and one's body is most certainly going to ultimately absorb every molecule ---so just put it in your coffee each morning, while sprinkling the fisetin ( that you are also going to buy : ) on your toast.

 

So bon appetit!


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#51 Oakman

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 04:50 PM

I note how people mention that the water solution of apocynin is thin and so evaporates quickly on the skin, limiting its availability to migrate into deeper skin layers.

 

I imagine a cream with apocynin in it would substantially lengthen the time apocynin is available on the skin to be absorbed. Further encouraging is that companies are doing just that in commercial products.

 

For example > https://skinactives....ients/apocynin/  where it is offered in a cream with various other typical cream components (hyaluronic acid, collagen, Coenzyme Q10 and Vitamin E for maximum anti-aging benefits).

 

Once I get my apocynin, one thing I'll try is mixing it with a base cream for skin application. Another will be an oral dose. I wonder if enteric apocynin capsules would improve oral bioavailability or if there is no benefit to that approach?

 

Also its molecular weight is rather small 167, so perhaps sublingual would be appropriate?  https://www.scbt.com...ocynin-498-02-2 There are other important characteristics of a drug that makes for good sublingual delivery, which apocynin may not meet.  https://shodhganga.i...9_chapter_1.pdf



#52 Oakman

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 02:07 PM

Another thought came to me last night. It has been mentioned that some injury or inflammation seems to be needed to jump start apocynin's beneficial renewal action, here'a an idea of how to do that.

 

I've been using glycolic acid cream a couple times, and there are two reactions I see, depending on application. One, if you apply the cream (10%) lightly and rub it in, you get a mild redness and tingling. So a little inflammation. Alternatively, if you put a thin coating on your skin and leave it, maybe repeat it the next day, you get a bigger redness, and it gets sore, then forms a scab that comes of a week or so later. Either of these is a way to jump start skin restoration. One slower, one quickly. 

 

Now perhaps the first, more gentle method, done for a few days, then use apocynin cream/spray on the area - will be enough to put skin renewal on the fast track and get both the body's natural healing+apocynin to work.

 

Thoughts?



#53 granmasutensil

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 07:27 PM

Another thought came to me last night. It has been mentioned that some injury or inflammation seems to be needed to jump start apocynin's beneficial renewal action, here'a an idea of how to do that.

 

I've been using glycolic acid cream a couple times, and there are two reactions I see, depending on application. One, if you apply the cream (10%) lightly and rub it in, you get a mild redness and tingling. So a little inflammation. Alternatively, if you put a thin coating on your skin and leave it, maybe repeat it the next day, you get a bigger redness, and it gets sore, then forms a scab that comes of a week or so later. Either of these is a way to jump start skin restoration. One slower, one quickly. 

 

Now perhaps the first, more gentle method, done for a few days, then use apocynin cream/spray on the area - will be enough to put skin renewal on the fast track and get both the body's natural healing+apocynin to work.

 

Thoughts?

 

I can confirm I have the most noticeable results using right after triggering skin renewal. I would say micro needling makes the most sense since the damage itself from it is what the results are from, so apocynin would assist that renewal significantly and that's what I've found. This being from a 1.0-1.5mm treatment. But a .25 which is for penetration of products would likely help somewhat too, that can be done every day if one wanted. I use the derminator 2 from owndoc.com and found it to be a good investment. I bother mentioning it because there really aren't any other worthwhile options out there. Rollers and stamps are a nightmare I thought I'd try and save money first lol. The easy of use, results and lack of pai,n and improved accuracy of the derminator are overwhelming. This may sound obvious or self evident but it really isn't, I've tried apocynin in a serum after micro needling maybe 3-4 times now I noticed a massive difference between what I normally do which I would say is a normal treatment going over the area around 5 times and what I did two weeks ago with last treatment which was around 15 times because I wanted to do a more intense treatment. I would say increasing damage has a significant impact on results because of the increased skin renewal it allows apocynin to effect. I've done these overly intense treatments and normal ones a decent amount of times before without apocynin to know the difference.  Another note apocynin may degrade somewhat fast after put into solution. I've noticed results basically only after first 1-3 days of mixing the serum with it even without micro needling same thing. Which is why I do a micro needling treatment when I make a new serum same day. So I suggest not mixing more than a month of product per time.

 

That's where I'm at so far with it. Another thought that would be easy for anyone to do at home, would be putting some rubbing alcohol in the freezer in a ziploc which wont freeze but get very cold and place it over each area of the skin you want to treat with apocynin for 10-15 seconds to trigger cold shock proteins. Maybe that would help assist apocynin? The thing about acids is the ph can ruin other skin care actives. But a lot of times many products already have practically fully neutralized them anyways so it can say 20-40% or higher and it won't do much of anything. This is especially true in toners.


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#54 rodentman

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 05:44 AM

has anyone tried topical apocynin with tetrinol (retin-a)? 



#55 Oakman

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 08:33 PM

The thing about acids is the ph can ruin other skin care actives. But a lot of times many products already have practically fully neutralized them anyways so it can say 20-40% or higher and it won't do much of anything.

 

With glycolic acid, you put it on, then it does it's thing, but afterwards it's gone, and/or you can simply wash the area, removing any residual acid. From there the treatment should happen as in other sensitizing cases. There should be no interference from the acid, but the skin is suitably sensitized.

 

Micro-needling sounds quite invasive. I've read a lot of unhappy stories from people trying it. Perhaps after you become an expert, such as yourself, and know what to expect. Keep us posted on your longer term results. BTW you don't mention where exactly you've been trying your experiments? I would think for results you would have to wait a month or more, since what we are trying to accomplish is rejuvenating the deepest skin layers, not just surface imperfections, yes?



#56 granmasutensil

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 09:22 PM

With glycolic acid, you put it on, then it does it's thing, but afterwards it's gone, and/or you can simply wash the area, removing any residual acid. From there the treatment should happen as in other sensitizing cases. There should be no interference from the acid, but the skin is suitably sensitized.

 

Micro-needling sounds quite invasive. I've read a lot of unhappy stories from people trying it. Perhaps after you become an expert, such as yourself, and know what to expect. Keep us posted on your longer term results. BTW you don't mention where exactly you've been trying your experiments? I would think for results you would have to wait a month or more, since what we are trying to accomplish is rejuvenating the deepest skin layers, not just surface imperfections, yes?

 

Yes you can do that with glycolic acid but the point being it's a pain to wait roughly 15 minutes for the acid to neutralize on the skin twice a day before applying the apocynin and the more you apply prior to the active you really want to work the more of a barrier is there preventing it to work. Maybe try a liquid glycolic solution? Here is a large cheap pretty easy for the most part to get glycolic solution that isn't neutralized as an example.

 

https://theordinary....n-240ml?redir=1

 

Yes takes around a week and a half to six weeks for the skin to remodel depending on depth and the specific structure of the skin that is getting repaired. Then based on the person as in how young, healthy, how much rest they are getting supplements like carnosine increase healing, other topicals that speed up healing and skin turnover and so on. Time of day even, there was a study showing significantly reduced recovery times(up to around +50%) for people who had surgery late in the day/night vs those earlier in the day something to do with when the damage occurred relative to cellular circadian.

 

Micro needling can be very invasive to not at all. 0.25mm depth does virtually nothing aside from help with penetration of products which is something a person could do everytime very easily. I think what could be good to clear up would be specifically how best apocynin works and would likely have an effect for us. For example how best did it work, and considering thickness of skin used on. Between typical application, causing local inflammation, or triggering regeneration through some type of damage. The inflammation route a person could perhaps just add a surfactant for penetration and minor inflammation as a very simple easy answer. But I have the feeling for the deeper tissue of the skin something like micro needling might be required to get an affect there both for getting more apocynin there and to trigger a healing response.

 

Perhaps also dosage should be increased, so reasonable amounts actually make it to the deeper tissue before being used up or diluted going systematic. So my question being are there negative effects at increasing amount or a specific threshold to stay under? Not putting all of this on you Oakman to answer, just putting this all out there for discussion and my mindset of where I'm coming from.


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#57 Zisos

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Posted 17 April 2020 - 11:13 PM

The thickness of the epidermis down through the basal layer is only about 0.1 to 0.25 mm on the inside of forearms (an average thickness). DMSO will take apocynin through the skin that deep and deeper. I have experimented with DMSO and senolytic compounds on my skin with good results. My arms are free of all actinic and most seborrheic keratoses (that should be the subject of another discussion).

 

What other selolytics did you use with DMSO on skin?

How often did you apply?

What were the results?



#58 Fafner55

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Posted 18 April 2020 - 07:16 PM

What other selolytics did you use with DMSO on skin?

How often did you apply?

What were the results?

 

Here is my latest protocol for senolytics on the skin:

 

Dissolve dasatinib (BCL-2 pro-survival inhibitor) and resveratrol (p53-BAX pro-death activator) and honokiol in DMSO Ref.

  • 1 tbps DMSO (15 mL)  

  • 1 mg dasatinib. (BCL family pro-survival inhibitor Ref, Ref)

  • 80 mg resveratrol. (BCL family inhibitor; Akt pro-growth inhibitor Ref, Ref, Ref, Ref; p53-BAX pro-death activator Ref)

  • 80 mg honokiol. (BCL-xL pro-survival inhibitor Ref; potent Akt inhibitor Ref ; p53 activator Ref, ERK1/2 pathway inhibitor Ref)

 

Application

  1. Apply 1x/day for 2 to 3 days.  DO NOT GET THIS IN YOUR EYES! Even a small amount of DMSO can cause an eye hemorrhage. 

  2. Spread over skin. It is OK to wash off any residue after 60 minutes. 

  3. 2 tbsp DMSO is enough to cover the entire body. 1 tbsp DMSO is enough to cover the face, head, hands, arms and lower legs. 

  4. Repeat no more than once per 3 weeks.

 

Concern
  1. DO NOT GET DMSO IN YOUR EYES! Even a small amount of DMSO can cause an eye hemorrhage.

  2. Overuse can cause localized neuropathy.

  Side Effects

Topical: Peeling can occur after 3 or 4 days if applied to skin with extensive damage. Overuse can cause localized neuropathy.

 
Results
This treatment causes apoptosis of most actinic keratoses within one or two applications. It slowly reduces some seborrheic keratoses. It does not otherwise improve the appearance of aged skin. Wrinkles and unaffected.
 
Additional treatment for larger, subborn actinic keratosis
  1. Cleanse the affected area with alcohol to remove skin oils.

  2. Put a small drop of 25% TCA (trichloroacetic acid) on the keratosis using a toothpick. Wait 5 minutes (face or head) or 6 minutes (on thicker skin like hands or arms) then wash off.

  3. The affected area will peel over 5 to 10 days. 

  4. The epidermis takes about 14 days to regenerate. Wait at least 2 weeks then repeat. Multiple treatments may be necessary.

 
Comments
  1. While senolytics will clear many small actinic keratoses, these treatments do not address all skin problems. I had a patch of bad skin that senolytic treatment did not effect, and which later developed into a squamous cell carcinoma (surgically removed).
  2. My dermatologist commented several times on what good shape my skin was, other than the squamous cell carcinoma.
  3. There is little to no benefit to wrinkles or sagging skin.
  4. Micronized resveratrol dissolves in DMSO, as does honokiol.
  5. Resveratrol and honokiol do not noticeably stain skin. Fisetin stains a yellowish-green.

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#59 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 26 May 2020 - 08:16 PM

I am more interested because of its arteriosclerosis benefits!

 

Me too.

 

Have you got a dose in mind and is this orally available?



#60 ZuoCi

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 01:50 AM

A water and DMSO carrier would not be ideally suited for skin absorption. Depending on how it evaporates, it would either blitz through the skin right to the bloodstream, or never make it to the dermis.

 

DMSO is great for avoiding injections, but it's not really ideal for skincare. Much like ethyl alcohol, it doesn't settle in the skin and just carries most of the product right into the bloodstream.

 

In all of my years looking at DIY mixes of various topical hair and skin products I've literally never seen a successful mix with DMSO if it needs to sink into the skin and stay there(without going to the bloodstream).

 

I'm going to order some of this and detail what I try, but in general you're better off testing with some type of moisturizer or even pure aloe vera gel. Aloe vera dissolves a surprising amount of substances, and does penetrate to the dermis without reaching the skin(the downside is it doesn't seem to penetrate deeply into the dermis). 

The best thing I've used is Acne.org's moisturizer, which seems to be a good mix of thick enough, but not super thick.

Coconut oil is moderately effective, but depends on the substance. I've found only a minority of substances will dissolve in coconut oil.







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