Nuchido NAD+ booster. Breakthrough or ...?
Oakman 05 Oct 2019
Mind, at RAADfest has just posted a label pic of this purported soon-to-be-released NAD+ booster, Nuchido Time here. I was interested yesterday when I saw a mention of it, but no specifics, and was put off by the fact their website refused to offer ingredients except saying it has a bit (3 mgs) of caffeine in it. Now Mind has spilled the beans, so to speak, and it appears to be simply some common herbs and a bit of Niacin.
Yet they spec "out of this world' NAD+ boosting properties, surpassing NMN, NR, and NAD+ by a lot. See their site
What are we to make of this. Breakthrough? Scam? Overpriced 'nothingburger'?
Thoughts?
Edited by Oakman, 05 October 2019 - 05:25 PM.
MikeDC 05 Oct 2019
The reason to increase NAD+ level is to increase NAD+ consumption. What good does it do if the supplement blocks NAD+ consumption?
CD38 is not a useless molecule. It is important for both immunity and longevity.
Oakman 05 Oct 2019
They obviously use some herbs as NAD+ consuming inhibitors to increase NAD+.
The reason to increase NAD+ level is to increase NAD+ consumption. What good does it do if the supplement blocks NAD+ consumption?
CD38 is not a useless molecule. It is important for both immunity and longevity.
Everything you say may be true, except ..what if the product combo is in the same vein as 78c* used in this study summarized below? Sure sounds compleling to apply some CD38 inhibition. CD38 may not be 'bad', but that doesn't mean it can't become poorly regulated. These drugs allow us to 'improve' aging and CD38 dysregulation.
One day NAD+ regulation will be old hat, but right now we're still learning, and I'd say the future surely holds surprises.
Summary
* Thiazoloquin(az)olin(on)e 78c
Edited by Oakman, 05 October 2019 - 06:48 PM.
MikeDC 06 Oct 2019
Mind 07 Oct 2019
I have taken a 2/3 dose over the last 2 days. No negative side effects in my case. As to effectiveness, due to the fact that I drink coffee, feeling some sort-of wellness or energy boost is going to be difficult to discern. Yesterday I did scale a nearly 12,000 foot mountain after taking the Nuchido product (and not eating anything), not sure if that is evidence of efficacy, at least it didn't hinder me.
Oakman 07 Oct 2019
I have taken a 2/3 dose over the last 2 days. No negative side effects in my case. As to effectiveness, due to the fact that I drink coffee, feeling some sort-of wellness or energy boost is going to be difficult to discern. Yesterday I did scale a nearly 12,000 foot mountain after taking the Nuchido product (and not eating anything), not sure if that is evidence of efficacy, at least it didn't hinder me.
Pics or did it really happen That sounds like a fairly amazing endorsement, unless, or course, climbing 12,000 ft mountains is a normal routine for you?!!
Edited by Oakman, 07 October 2019 - 12:12 PM.
midas 09 Oct 2019
I have taken a 2/3 dose over the last 2 days. No negative side effects in my case. As to effectiveness, due to the fact that I drink coffee, feeling some sort-of wellness or energy boost is going to be difficult to discern. Yesterday I did scale a nearly 12,000 foot mountain after taking the Nuchido product (and not eating anything), not sure if that is evidence of efficacy, at least it didn't hinder me.
I find this a strange post as it was only released on the 7th of October, the same day you made this post???
joesixpack 09 Oct 2019
I have taken a 2/3 dose over the last 2 days. No negative side effects in my case. As to effectiveness, due to the fact that I drink coffee, feeling some sort-of wellness or energy boost is going to be difficult to discern. Yesterday I did scale a nearly 12,000 foot mountain after taking the Nuchido product (and not eating anything), not sure if that is evidence of efficacy, at least it didn't hinder me.
Mt. Charleston? What was the weather like on top?
I find this a strange post as it was only released on the 7th of October, the same day you made this post???
I believe he bought it a couple of days ago at Raadfest. He posted pictures of the label a couple of days ago in another forum.
midas 09 Oct 2019
I believe he bought it a couple of days ago at Raadfest. He posted pictures of the label a couple of days ago in another forum.
Ah, I see, that makes sense now. Thanks for that.
I just ordered some last night, so we'll see.
Edited by midas, 09 October 2019 - 03:39 PM.
VP. 09 Oct 2019
Maybe it's based on this study released last week. Research done by Nestle. Greater than 10X over NR:
A Reduced Form of Nicotinamide Riboside Defines a New Path for NAD+ Biosynthesis and Acts as an Orally Bioavailable NAD+ Precursor
ObjectiveA decay in intracellular NAD+ levels is one of the hallmarks of physiological decline in normal tissue functions. Accordingly, dietary supplementation with NAD+ precursors can prevent, alleviate, or even reverse multiple metabolic complications and age-related disorders in diverse model organisms. Within the constellation of NAD+ precursors, nicotinamide riboside (NR) has gained attention due to its potent NAD+ biosynthetic effects in vivo while lacking adverse clinical effects. Nevertheless, NR is not stable in circulation, and its utilization is rate-limited by the expression of nicotinamide riboside kinases (NRKs). Therefore, there is a strong interest in identifying new effective NAD+ precursors that can overcome these limitations.
MethodsThrough a combination of metabolomics and pharmacological approaches, we describe how NRH, the reduced form of NR, serves as a potent NAD+ precursor in mammalian cells and mice.
ResultsNRH acts as a more potent and faster NAD+ precursor than NR in mammalian cells and tissues. Despite the minor structural difference, we found that NRH uses different steps and enzymes to synthesize NAD+, thus revealing a new NRK1-independent pathway for NAD+ synthesis. Finally, we provide evidence that NRH is orally bioavailable in mice and prevents cisplatin-induced acute kidney injury.
ConclusionsOur data demonstrate a new pathway for NAD+ synthesis and classify NRH as a promising new therapeutic strategy to enhance NAD+ levels.
NRH is a reduced form of NR (Figure 1A) whose chemical synthesis was recently described [30]. When the AML12 hepatocytes were treated with NRH, the ability of NRH to increase intracellular NAD+ was vastly superior to that of NR. The dose-response experiments revealed that NRH could significantly increase NAD+ levels at a concentration of 10 μM (Figure 1B). Even at such a relatively low dose, NRH10 achieved similar increases in intracellular NAD+ levels to those reached with NR at 50-fold higher concentrations (Figure 1B). NRH achieved maximal effects on NAD+synthesis at approximately 0.5 mM, increasing the intracellular NAD+ levels by more than 10-fold (Figure 1B). The NRH actions were also extremely fast, as significant increases in NAD+ levels were observed within 5 min after NRH treatment (Figure 1C). The peak levels of NAD+ were achieved between 45 min and 1 h after treatment (Figure 1C), which also occurred with N
Earlier paper agrees: http://www.jbc.org/c...005772.full.pdf
Edited by VP., 09 October 2019 - 07:11 PM.
VP. 09 Oct 2019
NRH:
In summary, these findings reveal a powerful naturally occurring pharmacologic agent that can raise NAD+ levels in mammalian cells and tissues, providing an exceptional new tool to investigate how changes in NAD+ metabolism can alter cellular physiology.
Conflict of interest: The authors Anthony A Sauve, Yue Yang and Farheen Sultana Mohammed have filed a patent on aspects of this work in conjunction with Cornell University. Anthony A Sauve has intellectual property related to NR and derivatives of NR. Chromadex Inc of Irvine California has a license on intellectual property related to production and uses of NR. Anthony A Sauve is a consultant and a cofounder of Metro MidAtlantic Biotech LLC and Metro International Biotech LLC.
http://www.jbc.org/c...005772.full.pdf
Edited by VP., 09 October 2019 - 07:20 PM.
Daniel Cooper 09 Oct 2019
Nestle seems to be moving into this field in a big way. That research is very much in the same vein as their partnership with Amazentis to produce a food product containing Urolithin A.
Mind 09 Oct 2019
Pics or did it really happen That sounds like a fairly amazing endorsement, unless, or course, climbing 12,000 ft mountains is a normal routine for you?!!
Not routine. In fact, I have not done much cardio at all for the last 3 months, just a lot of heavy lifting in my back yard and the normal 3 mile bike to work. So I was surprised at my accomplishment. I haven't climbed a mountain in about 20 years. I had coffee with cream, the Nuchido supplement and a couple pieces of 90% dark chocolate, then I hiked around for almost 8 hours. Maybe there is something to it (Nuchido), but not sure. I am in good shape anyway.
Mind 09 Oct 2019
price not listed on website do you know it
The conference price was $55 for a one month supply, which is 180 pills. They suggest 3 pills twice a day, so that would end up being 500 mg niacin per day or 3,000% RDA. Seems like a lot. In the past, I have noticed niacin giving me energy, kind-of like a nervous energy. I can't take it before bed. I have taken the 3 pill dose over the last couple of mornings. No negative side effects. Maybe a little energy boost, but that is just subjective at this point.
I find this a strange post as it was only released on the 7th of October, the same day you made this post???
I bought it on Friday (4th) and then first took it on Saturday (5th) and Sunday (6th).
Edited by Mind, 16 February 2020 - 07:13 PM.
Mind 09 Oct 2019
Mt. Charleston? What was the weather like on top?
I believe he bought it a couple of days ago at Raadfest. He posted pictures of the label a couple of days ago in another forum.
I got to the top of Lee Peak and then hiked around the ridge tops. I did not have time to climb Mount Charleston. The weather was perfect. Hardly any wind, about 65 degrees in the sun, and 50 in the shade.
Attached Files
aribadabar 20 Oct 2019
What are we to make of this. Breakthrough? Scam? Overpriced 'nothingburger'?
Looking at the ingredients and the cost - my vote is last one.
Once can achieve this mix at fraction of the asking price by buying its constituents separately..
Mind 29 Oct 2019
I have been taking the product for 4 weeks now, not quite daily, but about 4 or 5 times per week. I take 3 pills in the morning which is half the recommended dose for an entire day. I skip the 3 pills in the afternoon for fear it will affect my sleep at night.
I haven't done any objective tests for changes in my metabolism or biomarkers. Subjectively (always view with skepticism), I would say I get a small boost in baseline physical energy from the product. It seems I can do a little more physical work with more ease in a typical day when I take the supplement in the morning.
Oakman 29 Oct 2019
I've compounded a supplement roughly based on Nuchido's Time, their NCD201 formula used in their original studies, and ABN's NAD+ AMPK Activator, with a 14 day supply. I've used it for 3 days, and will report any subjective feelings when the trial completes. The mix is a ~3 grams, 5 cap protocol spaced out during the day.
Nate-2004 14 Nov 2019
I've compounded a supplement roughly based on Nuchido's Time, their NCD201 formula used in their original studies, and ABN's NAD+ AMPK Activator, with a 14 day supply. I've used it for 3 days, and will report any subjective feelings when the trial completes. The mix is a ~3 grams, 5 cap protocol spaced out during the day.
I basically did the same thing, buying all their ingredients separately with some additional bioenhancers. I posted about it in another thread. Today was my first take of it. I don't plan on taking it continuously, just cycling it on and off.
Tony2019 14 Nov 2019
Hi all.
I'm thinking about gambling on these capsules, as I have not taken any of this type of supplement before.
IF they work, it could drastically cut my costs because I could take half of the dosage. After all, do we really need a 300% (or whatever the claim is) increase in NAD? Is more necessarily better?
My other option was to try and put together the ingredients myself. I see that two people above me are doing so.
Any updates on the effects of the pills? Anyone else bought them?
Thanks!
aribadabar 14 Nov 2019
I've compounded a supplement roughly based on Nuchido's Time, their NCD201 formula used in their original studies, and ABN's NAD+ AMPK Activator, with a 14 day supply. I've used it for 3 days, and will report any subjective feelings when the trial completes. The mix is a ~3 grams, 5 cap protocol spaced out during the day.
How are things looking at the 14-day mark?
Oakman 15 Nov 2019
How are things looking at the 14-day mark?
As I would hope, well enough. I don't feel different, and I don't feel any ill effects. It would reasonably take longer than 2 weeks to accrue any significant improvements. I might wait a bit before compounding more, and see what happens, if anything. I've been taking NR & NMN anyway, and Vit C, R, rutin, quercetin, apigenin all along, so this is not an unexpected result.
I didn't use the full dose a couple days, so tomorrow I'll be finished what I made. As I mentioned, I used a pseudo-combo of Nuchido's Time, their original NCD201 formula, and ABN's NAD+ AMPK Activator. What I compounded was a rough mix of many of these based on what I had on hand and/or could procure easily. Here's what they consisted of:
Nuchido Time
Ascorbic Acid 10mg
Nicotinamide 250mg
Alpha Lipoic Acid 300mg
Zinc 5mg
Proprietary blend 1100mg; green tea extract, parsley leaf powder, rutin extract, black pepper fruit extract (exact amts unknown)
NC201
NR 1000mg
Quercetin 1125mg
Resveratrol 400mg
Alpha Lipoic Acid 600mg
Apigenin 600mg
ABN's AMPK Activator - Boost endogenous NAD+
Fistein 165mg
EGCG 375mg
Pterostilbene 40mg
Astragaloside 40mg
Ellagic Acid 30mg
Here's what I compounded, x5 ~600mg/capsules, x2 AM, x2 Noon, x1 Evening, all with food.
Edited by Oakman, 15 November 2019 - 03:53 PM.
aribadabar 15 Nov 2019
Thank you for the prompt and detailed response.
Are you doing any blood tests to compare its effects on biomarkers or just go by sensation/overall feeling?
Oakman 15 Nov 2019
Thank you for the prompt and detailed response.
Are you doing any blood tests to compare its effects on biomarkers or just go by sensation/overall feeling?
I use exercise performance (HR, speed recorded in Strava during endurance cycling), daily HRV measurement, BP, and body sense. I probably should do some blood work though, just have not.
Oakman 16 Nov 2019
Considering my post above... here is what I log to stay 'in tune' with mind and body. They reflect to me the result of everything I do and take. Now they (for the time being), reflect this new combo. I also record subjective body sense, aura, and sleep measurements. In an N=1 experiment, this is doable, and practical on a day-to-day basis. I look for positive/negative changes over time in these parameters
Recorded daily, today's stats::
HRV 7 day average 72.6
Resting HR 7 day average: 50.5 bpm:
Record each ride (~every 2-3 days). Today:
Cycled: 31.13 miles
Average speed: 14.9 mph
Average HR:: 129 bpm
Max HR: 178 bpm
Ave power: 88 watts
YTD total: 3071 miles
also
BP 5 min after finish: 105/66 105 bpm
BP 30 min after finish: 99/59 97 bpm
VP. 16 Nov 2019
Thanks Oakman, may I ask how old you are? I recommend you measure balance also. I had a dramatic increase after taking D&Q and balance is a pretty good proxy for aging.