• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Resveratrol limit strength gains?

resveratrol exercise muscle weakness

  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 BrentS

  • Member
  • 44 posts
  • 26
  • Location:Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Posted 22 April 2020 - 09:03 AM


10 years ago, when I was lifting weights regularly, I followed the starting strength protocol for 3 months.  I hit the wall on my bench press the first time at 160 pounds, dropped the weight (and added creatine and maltodextrose and protein as a workout shake), then worked up again slower.  Hit the wall the second time at 185 pounds, and switched to a periodzation program, which took me to 225 over a period of months.  Then, because life, I had to stop going to the gym and just did bodyweight exercises for most of the next decade.

 

When I started hitting the gym again, I started the exact same way, with the starting strength protocol, and hit the wall at 180.  I backed off (restarted creatine and protein powder as workout drink but not maltodextrose this time as sugar now causes joint pain), built up again slower, and hit the wall again at 180.  So I switched to a periodized program, and over the past 8 months I have hit the wall at 180 another 6 times.  My body is NOT responding.  I am not building strength, or muscular size.

 

I take a lot of supplements, but, I suspect resveratrol might be the cause.  I was not taking it 10 years ago.  I take 500mg a day, been doing that for several years.

 

Has anyone else experienced any effect like this from resveratrol?  I'm going to wait a few more periodization cycles, and if no change, I will stop the resveratrol for a year and see if it allows me to improve again.



#2 Hermuller

  • Guest
  • 15 posts
  • 4
  • Location:Scotland
  • NO

Posted 09 May 2020 - 01:36 PM

 

 

I take a lot of supplements, but, I suspect resveratrol might be the cause.

How do you come to this suspicion if you take several things?

 

 

 

10 years ago

10 years can also make a big difference, no? Most competitive Athletes are under 30


  • Informative x 1

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 BrentS

  • Topic Starter
  • Member
  • 44 posts
  • 26
  • Location:Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Posted 09 May 2020 - 06:06 PM

Just a suspicion.  I have no data yet to prove it one way or another.  I am going to stop resveratrol after this next periodization cycle and see if that makes a difference.  The only other supplement I am taking that may have a life extension effect is Life Extension brand NAD+, and I am only taking 100mg of that a day.

 

I suspect, but cannot prove, that the life extension effect is caused by putting the body into a false starvation mode, which has the useful effect of slowing aging, but the negative effect of stopping "gainz"

 

A decade might make a difference, but I should be able to get back to where I used to be.

 

I'll add to this post in a few months after I stop resveratrol and see if increases return.


  • like x 1

#4 Hermuller

  • Guest
  • 15 posts
  • 4
  • Location:Scotland
  • NO

Posted 14 May 2020 - 02:50 PM

Resv is a SIRT activator, right? Don't NAD+ do that as well or am I mixing it up. Coz then you'd need to stop both for the experiment. Or you could try pulsing it, rather than taking it every day. I wonder how long it stays in the system tho, or its effects. I'm actually kinda confused why Sinclair says he takes it every day anyway... and from some recent things I watched I think he doesn't always, ie when he cant do intermittent fasting or sauna or exercise to activate survival mode then he relies on the molecules. It's rly hard to tell where the effects from when everything is mixed



#5 graatch

  • Guest
  • 390 posts
  • 5
  • Location:the USA

Posted 29 May 2020 - 05:23 PM

There is evidence of that, yes. https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3810808/

 

You're going to see this with a lot of substances taken prior to exercise training, e.g. curcumin, because they prevent the state of controlled cellular stress and muscle damage which your body responds to with the benefits of exercise. A lower dose might be fine, or playing around with the time that you take it relative to the training.



#6 Hermuller

  • Guest
  • 15 posts
  • 4
  • Location:Scotland
  • NO

Posted 29 May 2020 - 09:32 PM

There is evidence of that, yes. https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3810808/

 

You're going to see this with a lot of substances taken prior to exercise training, e.g. curcumin, because they prevent the state of controlled cellular stress and muscle damage which your body responds to with the benefits of exercise. A lower dose might be fine, or playing around with the time that you take it relative to the training.

I would take that paper with a grain of salt... here's why:

 

The paper reads: 

"After training, maximal oxygen uptake was higher in the placebo group than in the resveratrol group (P < 0.05; Fig. 1)." 

+1 for team placebo

"After training, performance in the Up & Go test was increased in the placebo group only (P < 0.001)"

+1 for team placebo

"while performances in the Chair-stand test, Step test and 5k walk test were increased in both groups (P < 0.001)."

+1 for both

 

But then do this: Go to the paper scroll down to the supplemental table S2 and check the fitness tests they did - they are basically all showing very very similar improvements except the step test shows the Resv group to improve a lot more.

 

So they say that both groups increased in step test performance, making it sounds like it's all the same, when it is clearly not. Resv should have won this one. This is a little red flag for me, as this could indicate bias of the author, as obv this result doesn't fit into the whole narrative. If the result should not be looked at as important, then it should be explained why. But nothing of this sort is done, it's conveniently swept under the carpet.

 

Edit: They mention that placebo wins yet again in the Up & Go test (even tho both improve), but then they don't acknowledge the win of Resv in the Step test. Feels pretty biased to me tbh. Convenient wording to support your narrative.

 

On the opposite: When they talk about Oxygen uptake they don't say "oh both groups increased", no, they say clearly that team placebo wins, which is half-true, cause they do, but BOTH groups are increasing. Team Resv just a bit less. "(443 ± 38 and 308 ± 46 ml O2 min−1 increase in the placebo and resveratrol group, respectively; P= 0.03; Table 1)."

 

 

 

So long story short, if you trust this paper or not, it does not show anything of the sort that Resv sets limits on any gains. If you trust this paper 100% then it basically means "you'll still have gains, just less, but if the upper limit of gains are affected we cannot tell".


Edited by Hermuller, 29 May 2020 - 09:38 PM.

  • Good Point x 1
  • like x 1
  • Agree x 1

#7 graatch

  • Guest
  • 390 posts
  • 5
  • Location:the USA

Posted 29 May 2020 - 09:45 PM

Very good points, thanks for taking a look.



#8 BrentS

  • Topic Starter
  • Member
  • 44 posts
  • 26
  • Location:Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Posted 13 June 2020 - 06:51 AM

Update -  stopped Resveratrol on 30 May.  On 12 June was able to bench press 180 pounds for 5 reps, and felt like I could have done another rep.  Will post again in another 7ish weeks as I work my way up again.



#9 StevenL

  • Guest
  • 9 posts
  • 2
  • Location:New Mexico
  • NO

Posted 26 August 2020 - 03:22 PM

Update -  stopped Resveratrol on 30 May.  On 12 June was able to bench press 180 pounds for 5 reps, and felt like I could have done another rep.  Will post again in another 7ish weeks as I work my way up again.

 

So, it's been 10 weeks - have you been able to break through the 180 # wall ?   

 

Or shall we assume that no news means that your hypothesis didn't pan out?    Ten years of ageing should have it's effect.

 

Curious and would like to know ! 



#10 BrentS

  • Topic Starter
  • Member
  • 44 posts
  • 26
  • Location:Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Posted 26 August 2020 - 07:13 PM

&nbsp;

So, it's been 10 weeks - have you been able to break through the 180 # wall ?&nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;
Or shall we assume that no news means that your hypothesis didn't pan out?&nbsp; &nbsp; Ten years of ageing should have it's effect.
&nbsp;
Curious and would like to know !&nbsp;

&nbsp;

So far my strength is continuing to increase. On 30 July 2020 I was able to bench press 185 for 5 reps, and I felt I had enough in the tank to do another rep. At the end of September I will attempt 190, so we'll see how it goes. I am still down a long ways from where I was 10 years ago, am curious as to whether the time passing will put another limit on my strength or whether it was resveratrol even back then that stopped my progression. Will find out the answer in the next year :D
  • Informative x 1

#11 Castiel

  • Guest
  • 374 posts
  • 86
  • Location:USA

Posted 20 September 2020 - 01:52 AM

 

 

Resveratrol Enhances Exercise-Induced Cellular and Functional Adaptations of Skeletal Muscle in Older Men and Women

 

. Furthermore, exercise combined with RSV significantly improved mean fiber area and total myonuclei by 45.3% and 20%, respectively, in muscle fibers from the vastus lateralis of older subjects. Together, these data indicate a novel anabolic role of RSV in exercise-induced adaptations of older persons and this suggests that RSV combined with exercise might provide a better approach for reversing sarcopenia than exercise alone.

https://pubmed.ncbi.....gov/28505227/#



#12 BrentS

  • Topic Starter
  • Member
  • 44 posts
  • 26
  • Location:Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Posted 04 August 2021 - 11:36 PM

 

This study was done on humans much older than me, and I have some doubts as to whether or not they were trying to push their maximums.  12 weeks of noob gains is a different world from where I am at as an intermediate lifter.

 

The study below is unfortunately exactly the same as what I was experiencing:

 

Resveratrol blunts the positive effects of exercise training on cardiovascular health in aged men

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/23878368/

 

 

 

For a better analysis, see Dr Brad Stanfield'd video here:

 



#13 BrentS

  • Topic Starter
  • Member
  • 44 posts
  • 26
  • Location:Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Posted 04 August 2021 - 11:47 PM

&nbsp;&nbsp;

So far my strength is continuing to increase. On 30 July 2020 I was able to bench press 185 for 5 reps, and I felt I had enough in the tank to do another rep. At the end of September I will attempt 190, so we'll see how it goes. I am still down a long ways from where I was 10 years ago, am curious as to whether the time passing will put another limit on my strength or whether it was resveratrol even back then that stopped my progression. Will find out the answer in the next year :D

 

To continue my max strength benchpress updates:

 

On the 17th of Sep 2020 I did 4 reps with 190, and failed the fifth rep (my butt came off the bench), so will try 190 again next cycle.

 

On the 5th of November I did 190 for 5 reps, but was very tough, will increase by 2.5 pounds for next cycle.

 

Next cycle was a complete fail.  I hurt myself very badly on the 21st of Dec, and missed the last 2 workouts of the cycle.  Will repeat entire cycle again.

 

On 4 Feb 2021 I did 5 reps with 192.5, still felt tough, will increase by 2.5 more pounds next cycle.

 

On 25 March 2021 I did 5 reps with 195, and it felt easy.  Will increase by 5 pounds next cycle.

 

On 13 May 2021 I did 5 reps with 200, and it still felt easy, will increase by 5 pounds again next cycle.

 

On 1 July 2021 I did 4 reps with 205, and failed the 5th rep again (butt off the bench again).  Will repeat 205 next cycle.

 

So after a year now off resveratrol, I am still slowly gaining strength, while that did not happen while on resveratrol at all.


  • Informative x 1

#14 Castiel

  • Guest
  • 374 posts
  • 86
  • Location:USA

Posted 11 August 2021 - 02:30 PM

To continue my max strength benchpress updates:

 

On the 17th of Sep 2020 I did 4 reps with 190, and failed the fifth rep (my butt came off the bench), so will try 190 again next cycle.

 

On the 5th of November I did 190 for 5 reps, but was very tough, will increase by 2.5 pounds for next cycle.

 

Next cycle was a complete fail.  I hurt myself very badly on the 21st of Dec, and missed the last 2 workouts of the cycle.  Will repeat entire cycle again.

 

On 4 Feb 2021 I did 5 reps with 192.5, still felt tough, will increase by 2.5 more pounds next cycle.

 

On 25 March 2021 I did 5 reps with 195, and it felt easy.  Will increase by 5 pounds next cycle.

 

On 13 May 2021 I did 5 reps with 200, and it still felt easy, will increase by 5 pounds again next cycle.

 

On 1 July 2021 I did 4 reps with 205, and failed the 5th rep again (butt off the bench again).  Will repeat 205 next cycle.

 

So after a year now off resveratrol, I am still slowly gaining strength, while that did not happen while on resveratrol at all.

 

Well resveratrol is quickly cleared from the system, it appears to have rejuvenating effects in multiple organs, strongest in the heart.  It does activate a lot of antiaging genes, but we do know that some of the pathways for muscle building such as MTOR are proaging, and lower protein high carb diets are said to be best for longevity.    It is not inconceivable that some of the protective antiaging mechanisms of resveratrol might somehow interfere a bit with muscle building.

 

I think sulforaphane at adequate dose might help build muscle with or without resveratrol, given that sulforaphane can inhibit myostatin which I think should allow for additional muscle growth.

 

Therapeutic window for sulforaphane is a bit small, too much can be detrimental I hear, and too little might not be very effective. 

 

A good way to get sulforaphane is through broccoli sprouts, or avmacol.

 

As for Dr Brad Stanfield, i think the doses that showed adverse consequences seemed to surpass that which I've heard is attainable in blood through supplementation with just one pill as most supplements have less than 1g.   That said high purity is needed, as most resveratrol comes from Japanese Knotweed which has significant emodin content and emodin adversely affects telomeres and is also laxative.

 

Resveratrol has shown to rejuvenate old human cells and as I said to rejuvenate the hearts of animals and will likely do so in humans too.   It activates multiple sirtuins, IIRC, Sinclair mentioned oleic acid from olive oil might have similar functionality.  And we all know extra virgin olive oil is a godsend, and godly substance central to the mediterranean diet and which is highly recommended.



#15 BrentS

  • Topic Starter
  • Member
  • 44 posts
  • 26
  • Location:Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Posted 12 August 2021 - 09:29 PM

Well resveratrol is quickly cleared from the system, it appears to have rejuvenating effects in multiple organs, strongest in the heart.  It does activate a lot of antiaging genes, but we do know that some of the pathways for muscle building such as MTOR are proaging, and lower protein high carb diets are said to be best for longevity.    It is not inconceivable that some of the protective antiaging mechanisms of resveratrol might somehow interfere a bit with muscle building.

 

I think sulforaphane at adequate dose might help build muscle with or without resveratrol, given that sulforaphane can inhibit myostatin which I think should allow for additional muscle growth.

 

Therapeutic window for sulforaphane is a bit small, too much can be detrimental I hear, and too little might not be very effective. 

 

A good way to get sulforaphane is through broccoli sprouts, or avmacol.

 

As for Dr Brad Stanfield, i think the doses that showed adverse consequences seemed to surpass that which I've heard is attainable in blood through supplementation with just one pill as most supplements have less than 1g.   That said high purity is needed, as most resveratrol comes from Japanese Knotweed which has significant emodin content and emodin adversely affects telomeres and is also laxative.

 

Resveratrol has shown to rejuvenate old human cells and as I said to rejuvenate the hearts of animals and will likely do so in humans too.   It activates multiple sirtuins, IIRC, Sinclair mentioned oleic acid from olive oil might have similar functionality.  And we all know extra virgin olive oil is a godsend, and godly substance central to the mediterranean diet and which is highly recommended.

 

I have actually purchased some of the sulphoraphane that Dr Stanfield recommended:

 

https://www.amazon.c...cd84f8714752f52

 

I only tried it one day, and then I set it aside for a while.  Dr Stanfleld's personal supplement list is here:

 

https://docs.google....2JiWTGMcpw/edit

 

And he only takes sulphoraphane on his rest days as he is worried about it acting the same as resveratrol and interfering with exercise gains.

 

I will see how my body reacts to apigenin, then decide from there whether to increase the sulphoraphane to be more regular as a supplement.
 

 

 

 


  • Informative x 2

#16 Castiel

  • Guest
  • 374 posts
  • 86
  • Location:USA

Posted 15 August 2021 - 12:10 PM

I have actually purchased some of the sulphoraphane that Dr Stanfield recommended:

 

https://www.amazon.c...cd84f8714752f52

 

I only tried it one day, and then I set it aside for a while.  Dr Stanfleld's personal supplement list is here:

 

https://docs.google....2JiWTGMcpw/edit

 

And he only takes sulphoraphane on his rest days as he is worried about it acting the same as resveratrol and interfering with exercise gains.

 

I will see how my body reacts to apigenin, then decide from there whether to increase the sulphoraphane to be more regular as a supplement.
 

Well finished watching Dr. Brad's latest sulforaphane video, this is a copy of my reply from that same video:

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Will say not sure if I agree with not boosting intrinsic antioxidant defenses uber high. Isn't this what CR essentially does? All the tissues become more resistant to toxic injury, and oxidation, and membranes become modified so as to produce less reactive species. From what I've heard CR ramps up all cellular defenses significantly

 

"Calorie restriction and a number of phytochemicals are able to induce the release of NRF2 from Keap1, allowing it to enter into the nucleus. Once in the nucleus, NRF2 binds to ARE sequences in the promoter of antioxidant and detoxifying enzymes, inducing their expression." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684645/

 

Membrane peroxidation index being key fire of autocatalytic reactive molecules likely at the heart of species differences in lifespan, and likely one of the main factors Calorie Restriction(CR) delays aging via membranes producing less reactive species through alterations of composition. CR basically turns the balance against oxidation. "Explaining longevity of different animals: is membrane fatty acid composition the missing link?" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2527634/

 

Also let us not forget sulforaphane is also a myostatin inhibitor https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3528693/ Inhibition of myostatin is said to lead to significant muscle growth. Not sure how potent sulforaphane is at this. The only side effect of myostatin inhibition is that it could affect the heart muscle, and you don't want too much myostatin inhibition in the heart. But besides that, there is likely benefit to some additional level of myostatin inhibition and might counter age related decline in muscle mass.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Will say from my understanding, both genetic interventions as well as interventions such as CR practically boost cellular defenses 24 7, and this results in both increased resistance against all manner of toxic insult, hypoxia, radiation, poisons, etc. For example animals are artificially induced strokes, heart attacks or given poisons that damage the kidney or liver, and the damage is far less to animals who have either genetic interventions for increased lifespan or CR, iirc.

 

I'm not sure whether it'd interfere with muscles gains. One reason sulforaphane might need cycling is if it were too potent a myostatin inhibitor as it could adversely affect heart if such is inhibited in that organ for too long. But I'm not sure supplements would cause issue, as happens in myostatin mutants. Likely the inactivation of myostatin will not approach mutation levels, and might not be an issue. Though more research is needed, perhaps some already exists in literature, not sure.



#17 Hermuller

  • Guest
  • 15 posts
  • 4
  • Location:Scotland
  • NO

Posted 07 October 2021 - 11:30 AM


> most resveratrol comes from Japanese Knotweed which has significant emodin content and emodin adversely affects telomeres and is also laxative.
 
Ah for fricks sake, so that's what's happening :D I thought the lactose free yoghurt was not lactose free enough. A frickin laxative and bad for telomeres... Low quality product I got myself there.
 
 
To the topic:
Whenever I take NMN+Resv (I never take Resv by itself), I try to make sure I sleep enough & not exercise that day (or physically strain myself). I also never do it on a permanent basis - my reasoning is that whether Resv acivates Sirtuins directly or stresses cells doesn't necessairly matter, as either way it puts your body in a state similar to fasting - stress, recycling, repairing and power saving. It makes sense, if you don't find food your body looks for energy inside & lowers energy expenditure so you have more time to find food again. I don't work out regularly enough to say whether I'm weaker on those days, I recall both being weaker and having same strength when doing some quick pushup tests (it's the only thing i semi regularly do and know how much I can do in a measured way), so it's inconclusive for me. However, when I did this last week I slept 9h per night + 1.5h nap, for 4 days straight - but again I gotta add I also went out a lot the previous weekend so again I'm not doing things isolated enough to draw good conclusions.
 
In response to the video "debunnking" Resv... I 100% recall that some of these studies were major setbacks in Dr Sinclairs career, almost ruining his lab. But then iirc they found a different way of proving that Resv does what they said it does, vaguely remember something about engineering the SIRT gene away or something, unsure. I don't have a link to a study. Edit: This obv excludes that 2020 CRISPR study, as what I talked about was around 2010ish plus minus a few years.
 
Overall I would say I can see how Resv could indeed lower Strength gains - try fasting strongly & working out, see how it goes. I also would not want to use it on a permanent basis or by itself alone (for me without NMN). Lastly, quality of product is exetremely important and one of the biggest downfall of all these longevity things atm as it's an unregulated market.

 


Edited by Hermuller, 07 October 2021 - 11:35 AM.


Click HERE to rent this advertising spot to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#18 Hermuller

  • Guest
  • 15 posts
  • 4
  • Location:Scotland
  • NO

Posted 10 October 2021 - 05:48 PM

On that 2020 CRISPR study:

They used a large dose, that's a hugely important factor. 16 micromolar and within the same paper they mention a study that says 2.5 is more beneficial ie smaller dose. My issue is I have absolutely no clue how to convert the dose in milligrams to micromolar for a comparison. Anyone knows? I'll prob try some more googling later, maybe I can figure it out







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: resveratrol, exercise, muscle weakness

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users