16 replies to this topic

[Forever21]

How do you take it?

 

What's your dosage?

 

What brand do you use?

[Kentavr]

I am not using NMN. I use liposomal quercetin, it lowers CD38, and thus saves NAD +. I don't need to level it up much at the moment. I'm 39 years old.

[Forever21]

I am not using NMN. I use liposomal quercetin, it lowers CD38, and thus saves NAD +. I don't need to level it up much at the moment. I'm 39 years old.

 

 

I'm 39 also. Is that the standard consensus here for people our age? To use liposomal quercetin?

[Kentavr]

Neither NMN nor senolytics increase life in long-lived mouse models more than diet.

I use liposomal quercetin to improve my quality of life a little.

 

The use of quercetin in liposomal form gives me much greater absorption and the chance that I will not treat only the liver and kidneys (the normal form is recognized by the liver and excreted by the body through the kidneys).

It's the same with NMN: if you take a form that the body can easily identify, then it is filtered by the liver. Also, the usual form of NMN is directed primarily to the muscles (this is the reason why muscles grow well when taking NMN).

If I want to help my whole body, I need to take either NMN in liposome form or a higher dosage, which is expensive.

In addition, NMN does not cross the blood-brain barrier, and for this reason, you still have to take NAD + (NAD + crosses the blood-brain barrier).

Since I am only 39 years old and the purchase of liposomal forms of NMN and NAD + is very expensive, I take liposomal quercetin.

 

Long-term use of liposomal quercetin should decrease CD38 on M1 macrophages, and a decrease in CD38 increases NAD +.

 

Since quercetin has a liposomal form, it is more evenly distributed throughout the body and hidden from the liver, and also easily overcomes the blood-brain barrier.

Plus, it is 10 times better absorbed than regular quercetin.

 

I'm saving. 

Edited by Kentavr, 30 September 2021 - 12:14 PM.

[Kentavr]

An additional benefit of inhibiting CD38 is this: if I suddenly stop taking liposomal quercetin, the CD38 count will not rise quickly. This gives me a "safety margin" in case of unforeseen circumstances.

 

I would like to see those who first add to NMN, and then abruptly stop taking it. It immediately becomes like a dead battery. Such a person needs to constantly take a dose, otherwise all processes will instantly roll back. This is evident from the blood tests provided by members of the longecity community: as soon as they stopped taking NMN, within 2 weeks, almost all blood counts (with rare exceptions) returned to the level corresponding to their age.

 

This is the second reason why at 39 I use liposomal quercetin and not NMN. 

[Phoebus]

 

 

If I want to help my whole body, I need to take either NMN in liposome form or a higher dosage, which is expensive.

In addition, NMN does not cross the blood-brain barrier, and for this reason, you still have to take NAD + (NAD + crosses the blood-brain barrier).

 

 

I'm saving. 

 

 

 

 with a molecular weight of 663 I doubt NAD is crossing the BBB, do you have a source for that claim? 

 

NAM has a Molecular weight of 122 and readily crosses the BBB. As most of us know, a m. weight below 500 is considered necessary for crossing the BBB 

[Kentavr]

 with a molecular weight of 663 I doubt NAD is crossing the BBB, do you have a source for that claim? 

 

NAM has a Molecular weight of 122 and readily crosses the BBB. As most of us know, a m. weight below 500 is considered necessary for crossing the BBB 

 

Yes, I have proof:

 

https://alivebyscien...-brain-barrier/

https://alivebyscien...-cell-membrane/

[Phoebus]

Yes, I have proof:

 

https://alivebyscien...-brain-barrier/

https://alivebyscien...-cell-membrane/

 

 

Those are mice studies. They may or may not apply to humans. Its proof of nothing, unfortunately. 

[Kentavr]

Those are mice studies. They may or may not apply to humans. Its proof of nothing, unfortunately. 

 

However, it does not refute either. Do you have more reliable evidence?

[Phoebus]

actually you made the claim so burden of proof is on you 

 

I mean NAD+ may cross the BBB, but I need more evidence than mice studies 

[Kentavr]

actually you made the claim so burden of proof is on you 

 

I mean NAD+ may cross the BBB, but I need more evidence than mice studies 

 

I have no direct evidence that NAD + crosses the human blood-brain barrier.

 

 

 

Bruzzone et al. (21) have shown that connexin 43 (Cx43) channels are permeable to extracellular NAD

 

Сonnexin 43 is also available in humans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GJA1

 

Therefore, it is very likely that the mechanism of action is the same. 

 

Consider this study as an example:

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/29366904/

[LawrenceW]

Yes, I have proof:

 

https://alivebyscien...-brain-barrier/

https://alivebyscien...-cell-membrane/

 

 

Both of these studies are for injected NAD+.

[able]

 

An additional benefit of inhibiting CD38 is this: if I suddenly stop taking liposomal quercetin, the CD38 count will not rise quickly. This gives me a "safety margin" in case of unforeseen circumstances.

 

 

This is the second reason why at 39 I use liposomal quercetin and not NMN. 

 

 

Liposomal Quercetin for lowering inflammation does make sense to me.  I didn't realize it also inhibits CD38.  Maybe not as much as Apigenin though?  

 

Alivebyscience posted an article comparing them, fisetin and others.

 

 https://alivebyscience.com/lower-inflammation-to-increase-nad/

 

Almost seems like they are saying take some of these anti-inflammatories to decrease NAD+ consumption and you don't need to take NMN or NR - is that what you are thinking Kentavr?

[Kentavr]

Both of these studies are for injected NAD+.

 

Here we consider the possibility of NAD + crossing the blood-brain barrier. In this context, it is not particularly important how the supplement entered the bloodstream.

 

 

Liposomal Quercetin for lowering inflammation does make sense to me.  I didn't realize it also inhibits CD38.  Maybe not as much as Apigenin though?  

 

Alivebyscience posted an article comparing them, fisetin and others.

 

 https://alivebyscience.com/lower-inflammation-to-increase-nad/

 

Almost seems like they are saying take some of these anti-inflammatories to decrease NAD+ consumption and you don't need to take NMN or NR - is that what you are thinking Kentavr?

 

 

That is how it is.

 

Having studied numerous news sources and scientific articles, I came to the conclusion that the process of "decrepitude" and "aging" are completely two different processes, which are weakly related to each other in humans.

 

I ask you not to be confused with the process of "aging", which is an increase in the risk of dying with age (!).

 

You can find out more about what "aging" is at the link below (in Russian, use the Google translator built into the Chrome browser):

 

https://nestarenie.r...nye-metody.html

 

If we are talking about "decrepitude" and not about "aging", then the process of "decrepitude" is triggered by inflammation. This will have little effect on your risk of dying with age, but it will significantly improve your quality of life.

 

---

 

Taking liposomal quercetin does not reduce my risk of dying with age. I'm just improving the quality of life.

 

---

 

A very good link was given by RAMPAGUY (in the topic of senolytics):

 

https://www.oncotarg...cle/28049/text/

 

It says that quercetin without dasatinib does not kill senescent cells. If you carefully read the text, then you will find the comments of a specialist, for whatever reason this does not happen.

 

 

I do not kill senescent cells. I inhibit CD38 on M1 macrophages. You can read this thread:

 

https://www.longecit...ystander-cells/

 

Apigenin is most likely best for inhibiting CD38:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3609577/  (look Fig.3)

 

But, since my quercetin is in liposomes, and apigenin is still too expensive, it is much more profitable for me to take liposomal quercetin.

 

I order liposomal quercetin called "LipoMicell Matrix" from Natural Factors to Russia and take 2 capsules a day (although only 1 capsule a day is recommended).

 

https://ru.iherb.com...softgels/101704

 

One bottle is enough for a month. 

[able]

 

But, since my quercetin is in liposomes, and apigenin is still too expensive, it is much more profitable for me to take liposomal quercetin.

 

 

 

 

I agree it does seem things like quercetin and apigenin to fight inflammation make a lot of sense, which is what ABS is saying.

 

 

I see they have a liposomal apigenin now, which isn't expensive imo.

Edited by able, 10 October 2021 - 02:58 AM.

[Karazantor]

Instead of expensive supplements, consider dried parsley - a very rough figure of 45mg of Apigenin can be found per g. A heaped teaspoon of this with lunch is a cheap and convenient way to increase. I never actually weigh it, however dump in a heaped teaspoon which comes to around 1.6g of dried parsley.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5791748/

 

I also use LEX triple action cruciferous morning and night for a bit of extra apigenin and DIM/I3C which should be handy for cancer prevention.

 

I understand Luteolin should be a superior CD38 inhibitor, however definitely a bit harder to come across, and not particularly bio available.

[Paravani]

I haven't been on the forum long, so probably someone else has posted this and I just missed seeing it...

But this report on "Possible Adverse Effects of High-Dose Nicotinamide" contains very specific information about effective dosing with NAM (niacinamide or nicotinamide).

From the first paragraph of section 3:

"These studies assure safety in the current wide-spread practice of long-term dietary intake of 500–1000 mg per day."


The entire article may be found at

https://www.ncbi.nlm...?report=classic

Edited by Paravani, 03 November 2021 - 04:50 AM.