281 replies to this topic

[jlgibbons]

I'd like to revisit the best supplement to take issue again. Has anyone else looked at Longevatrol "Stabilized Polyphenol Complex" by Neutraceutical Sciences Institute and, besides the obvious name knockoff, noticed that much of what the NSI folks write is very similar to what's said on the Longevnix website. "Licaps" to "ensure stability" for instance. However, a big difference seems to be that the NSI stuff is half the price for 20% more trans resveratrol.

What actually got me looking for something cheaper than the Longevinex was a comparison on the Longevinex web site that showed 5 different unnamed products compared to the Longevinex. The key numbers seemed to suggest that while the Longevinex had 96% "Percent of Labeled to Reveratrol" compared to 56% for the competitors and 96% "trans to cis" compared to 74% for the compettors, what stood out for me was "product B" which while it only had 52% of of "percent of Labeled Resveratrol," it had 91" "trans to cis" and, more importantly, seemed to give a very similar amount of trans resveratrol, 35.54mg, compared to Longevinex's 37mg. Isn't that what we're supposed to key on the trans?

So I went looking for a 75mg vegetable capsule like Product B. Ten days ago I think vita cost carried a 75mg capsule as well as their 200 mg capsule. They say their Licap capsule has at least "50 mg of resveratrol present" which I'm taking to mean the pure stuff.

My question is does this logic make sense and does Longevatrol look like a better deal?

[Athanasios]

There is a thread on it from a while back:

http://www.imminst.o...=natures way&s=

If I had the money, I would go for longevinex. If not, I might gamble on guessing product B.

To tell you the truth, I dont think I have the money for either unless i dumped half of my current regimen. This would be worth it if I had more assurance however.

[jlgibbons]

Actuall I jest sent this query to the folks at Longevatrol?

Your product information for the 200mg Longevatrol Stabilized Polyphenol Complex states that "there is at least 50 mg of resveratrol present in each capsule..." Would this be transresveratrol? Or maybe a different way to ask this question would be by asking how you come up with 50mg from the 3 ingredients you list under "supplement facts?" Or maybe I could ask how 50% of 100mg of ploygonum cuspidatum adn 40% of 100mg of Red wine extract equals 50mg of resveratrol?

[xanadu]

I'm not saying small doses will have exactly the same effects as large doses, that's not what I meant. It may be that larger doses give more benefits but what I'm saying is that the small doses allowed the french to live longer despite the fact they ate a high fat diet much as the mice in the studies did. The french did not have to take a huge dose every day to see those benefits. The endurance results may take a larger amount, I don't know.

[syr_]

I think also the body composition improvement effects take a higher dose than the wine intake could ever attain.

The reason why the French are generally slim is not mainly due to the red wine, IMO.

[smcracraft]

I've been on Longevinex and Longevatrol for a few weeks. Used up my
Longevinex and am on Longevatrol until Longevinex can get their
pricing/amount fair (50 cents per pill or less.)

My current dosage is 2 pills a day which is about 80mg for the Longevinex
(now gone) and 100mg for the Longevatrol.

I have a very strong physical reaction when first going on resveratrol and
am quite convinced Longevatrol is a highly effective delivery method.

I plan to go up to 5mg/kg in the next few months. I weight 76kg and will
be maxing out to 400mg. The reason is that this is 1/6 of the ~24ish mg/kg
given to the most-heavily-dosed mice in Sinclair's recent study published
in Nature and 1/6 is the scaling factor to use between mouse and man.

My friend has been on Longevinex for 2 years (both of his parents are
advanced age diabetics and he is running scared). He can only take one
pill per day. At two pills per day he starts to bruise more easily. So he
won't take more than one pill (40mg.) We're not sure why I can take two
and he can take only one. His body fat is about 1/3 mine (7% vs. 20%.)
He takes care of himself in many other ways that I don't so perhaps
something along those lines, or his blood is pretty thin already, who knows.

Stuart

[curious_sle]

Hi Stuart, this raises some questions...

what supplements should be dropped when taking arround 5gm/kg/d due to possible complications?

I take a baby aspirin and a gazillion others plus plan on reintroducing 10mg policosanol (i did notice a remarkable difference in my bloodlipids actually since dropping it it skewed back to still good but not quite soo good values) and already mixing policosanol and baby aspirin should be contemplated (no warfarin/coumadrin mind you, i'm healthy :-) )

regards
Curious

[Ghostrider]

Is there a substitute for Longevinex? Well, of course there is, but is there another product which delivers greater trans-Resveratrol / $? I am waiting for AOR to jump on this, although they are not really that cheap.

[smcracraft]

Hi Stuart, this raises some questions...

what supplements should be dropped when taking arround 5gm/kg/d due to possible complications?

I take a baby aspirin and a gazillion others plus plan on reintroducing 10mg policosanol (i did notice a remarkable difference in my bloodlipids actually since dropping it it skewed back to still good but not quite soo good values) and already mixing policosanol and baby aspirin should be contemplated (no warfarin/coumadrin mind you, i'm healthy :-) )

regards
Curious

I would not take any blood thinners when taking resveratrol. Also,
I would carefully examine what other supplements and meds one
takes.

All I take is Omega-3 Cold Liver oil (15 capsules daily), Vitamin
B-12/B-6/Folic acid (3xRDA daily), a chewable multiple with the
minimum RDA's of everything, Resveratrol, an occasional Avodart,
and I eat tons of fish at lunch, tons of non-dairy liquid protein at
breakfast, and various carbs at dinner. It works for me, I have
energy and clarity most of the time.

My friend at work is a former heart patient who (barely) avoided
a heart operation for a heart attack he had a couple years ago.
Instead, he went for drugs and lifestyle changes. He lost a ton of
weight as well.

I presented him the overwhelming evidence available on resveratrol
at www.pubmed.com to him. He immediately bought two bottles
of Longevatrol.

He spoke with his cardiologist who said "I wouldn't take it." and Ken
has decided to go ahead and take resveratrol. I have warned him
about its blood thinning effects and other effects on medicines
(rendering them stronger), but he is going to proceed.

Meanwhile, I've ordered another bottle of Longevatrol and am currently
on 3 pills per day (150mg Resveratrol daily) and will up it gradually
to 400mg and hold.

I have noticed an odd amount of clarity and energy since going on
Resveratrol 3 weeks ago (I had toyed with it for 3 years since the
2003 studies were announced.)

Stuart

[smcracraft]

Maestro, that's spectacular news about Longevinex bumping up their resveratrol content.

I just bought 10 bottles of the NSI resveratrol project, which contains 50mg per pill, but also other good stuff.

That "other good stuff" is critical:

"Red wine procyanidins and vascular health"
> R. Corder, W. Mullen, N. Q. Khan, S. C. Marks, E. G. Wood, M. J. Carrier and A. Crozier
> Nature 444, 566 (30 November 2006) | doi:10.1038/444566a

You can pull this at www.pubmed.com at:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

The point is that resveratrol is not the only good thing in red wine.
Other components are critical.

Bottom line: Longevatrol has the extras, the "good stuff".

Note: Longevatrol is currently backordered by 7 days (or more).

[maestro949]

The point is that resveratrol is not the only good thing in red wine.
Other components are critical.

Yeah, cover your bases. Drink the wine too

sing French census data, the two researchers then compared regions that had unusually long-lived men with the wine produced in those areas. The Nuoro province of Sardinia and the Gers region of southwestern France both support relatively more men who survive past 75 years of age. Not coincidentally, these regions also produce local wines that are as much as four times richer in procyanidins than other wines.

[smcracraft]

Can't. Red wine gives me (and many people) headaches. Plus I don't like
to fight the depressive effect of wine through the rest of the day.

I did consider the "Fre" wine but didn't like it either.

Longevatrol is good for me as it contains both resveratrol and red wine extract.

[stephen_b]

It's still unclear to me whether Longevatrol contains 50 mg of transresveratrol.

Ray and Terry's claims 50 mg transresveratrol per capsule, and comes to about 38 cents each for 3-11 bottles (or 33.5 cents for 12+ bottles -- but if you're worried about oxidation, 12 bottles seems like a lot to get at once, though I suppose it doesn't oxidize much in a freezer).

Stephen

[maestro949]

Can't. Red wine gives me (and many people) headaches. Plus I don't like
to fight the depressive effect of wine through the rest of the day.

I did consider the "Fre" wine but didn't like it either.

Longevatrol is good for me as it contains both resveratrol and red wine extract.

I'm pretty sensitive to alchohol too. A glass or two a few times a week isn't a problem though. I find it really helps with stress relief. I eat concord grapes when I can find them or those big black juicy ones with the seeds, take a grape seed extract and drink not-from-concentrate organic grape juice too. I'll get those damn oligomeric procyanidins, tannins, resveratrol or whatever is contribing to longer life one way or another. If I could find a way to get imported Tannat grapes I would as it's not just any grapes and red wine that are good but specifically (or at least the best) seem to come from Gers and Sardinia of southwestern France. I'm planning on hunting around for some red wines from these regions tomorrow. A few quick googles didn't reveal much.

[curious_sle]

It's still unclear to me whether Longevatrol contains 50 mg of transresveratrol.

Ray and Terry's claims 50 mg transresveratrol per capsule, and comes to about 38 cents each for 3-11 bottles (or 33.5 cents for 12+ bottles -- but if you're worried about oxidation, 12 bottles seems like a lot to get at once, though I suppose it doesn't oxidize much in a freezer).
Stephen

Nice find... i tend to trust this supplier and at this price i can get easily to the amount i need and be at like 1$per day. Very nice indeed.
(i need 270mg but i gte 20mg from "now pomeratrol" already so this fits very nicely and at a nice price...

thanks!

[smcracraft]

Longevatrol is currently backordered 30+ days at www.vitacost.com and
16+ days at NSI.

There is a HUGE run on resveratrol.

[stephen_b]

thanks!

You're welcome. [lol]

Stephen

[DukeNukem]

>>> There is a HUGE run on resveratrol.

Whew. I've got about 6 boxes of Longevinex left, and 8 bottles of the NSI stuff. Plus, I've ordered 500g via Paul Wakfer's proposal to buy the pharmaceutical grade stuff from India -- the same stuff being used by many researchers, such as Dr. Sinclair.

I'm currently take 6 capsules daily, roughly 210mg trans-resveratrol. Once the powder comes in, I'll likely bump up to 400mg.


(Edit: changed "cis" to "trans".)

Edited by dukenukem, 07 December 2006 - 10:43 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

I think you meant trans-resveratrol there. I went buckwild when my NSI bottles came in and bumped it to 12 capsules daily (6 upon awakening, another 6 in the evening) for about 450mg. I figured if Mr. Roland and some others are seeing good results around 300mg at ~150lbs, I might need a bit more to emulate that at 200lbs. Haven't noticed anything terribly noteworthy in the short-term, although I do feel pretty super in general (however, that is not unusual). I will be repeating some of the blood tests I've had recently in a few months time and share the results with everyone.

[xanadu]

I had no problem ordering recently from iherb. I bought the LEF stuff and it was much cheaper per mg than the overpriced Longevetrol stuff. Plus it came with quercetin for which you have to pay good money all by itself.

smcracraft, you have a financial interest in this somewhere, don't you?

[syr_]

Plus, I've ordered 500g via Paul Wakfer's proposal to buy the pharmaceutical grade stuff from India -- the same stuff being used by many researchers, such as Dr. Sinclair.

WOW all 500g for you. Lucky bastard! :D

[FunkOdyssey]

He needs all 500g of that resveratrol so he can live long enough to finish Duke Nukem Forever. [tung]

Just when he thought he had found a safe corner of the 'net where he could escape the DNF jokes...

[Shepard]

Did I hear someone talking about a unicorn?

[doug123]

I thought some might like to check out consumerlab.com's review article on resveratrol:

More information available here.

Take care.

Attached Files

•  res123.JPG   59.82KB   0 downloads

[scottl]

You might joint morelife yahoo and check out Paul Wakfer's comments on this review here:

http://health.groups...fe/message/1327

Several of us have been suspicious of consumerlab and with good reason apparently.

[smcracraft]

I had no problem ordering recently from iherb. I bought the LEF stuff and it was much cheaper per mg than the overpriced Longevetrol stuff. Plus it came with quercetin for which you have to pay good money all by itself.

smcracraft, you have a financial interest in this somewhere, don't you?

Ha - wish I did. I've been "on" to resveratrol since 2003 (but not taking it regularly
until the last few months) - I had problems rationalizing $1 per pill and like the
50 cents per pill from Longevatrol with the Licaps technology.

[mitkat]

You might joint morelife yahoo and check out Paul Wakfer's comments on this review here:

http://health.groups...fe/message/1327

Several of us have been suspicious of consumerlab and with good reason apparently.

"Rodent experiments have suggested that carnosine is extremely safe – no adverse
toxic effects are noted even at doses up to 500mg/kg body weight (about 35 grams
for an average-sized man)."

Sweet Jehovah!!! 35 grams!!

[VP.]

News from Dr. Sinclair. I think he's on to something. I hope he's on to something.
From the Boston Globe:

MOLECULAR BIOLOGIST DAVID SINCLAIR | MEETING THE MINDS

His research targets the aging process

By Andrew Rimas, Globe Correspondent  |  December 11, 2006

David Sinclair has made it his life's mission to delay the inevitable -- or
at least make it less debilitating.

"Aging is the worst thing that has ever been put upon humanity," says
Sinclair, assistant professor of pathology at Harvard Medical School. "When
I was 3 years old, I was horrified by the idea that my grandparents would
die, and then my parents would die. And then one day I would die."

Sinclair's laboratory garnered headlines last month when it announced
findings on the anti-aging effects in mice of resveratrol , a chemical found
in red wine. The study showed that high doses of resveratrol prevented mice
fed a high-calorie diet from developing warning signs of diabetes and liver
problems and prolonged their lives. (Warning: Don't head to the wine store
just yet. The concentrations of resveratrol in wine aren't high enough to
offer life-extending benefits.)

"I don't care about red wine," says Sinclair. "But I've been working without
break for 11 years on this because I realize that it has the potential to
revolutionize medicine."
Several years ago scientists learned that cutting calorie intake in mice
extends their lives. Sinclair's studies on resveratrol show that the
chemical can reproduce those calorie-cutting benefits without any change in
diet.

But resveratrol is only the beginning. Sinclair says his lab has designed
molecules that are even more potent and could ease the burdens of growing
old with lower doses.

"Cancer, heart disease, diabetes, cataracts, Alzheimer's," says Sinclair.
"We aim to treat diseases of aging with a single pill. I want to see
90-year-olds play squash with their grandchildren."
Sinclair has cofounded a company, Sirtris, to develop and test such a pill,
and he predicts that a limited version will be available in as few as five
years. The company has raised $85 million to pursue its research, but
Sinclair reckons it will need $300 million to get a product on the market.
"We've come farther than I ever thought we would in my lifetime," he says.

The conquest of aging is no small ambition. Sinclair, however, isn't the
picture of hubris. A soft-spoken, slender Australian, Sinclair, 37, grew up
in Sydney and received a PhD in molecular biology from the University of New
South Wales. Then he sold his car to pay for a ticket to the United States
so he could interview for a postdoctoral research fellowship in the MIT lab
of Dr. Leonard Guarente, where he immersed himself in yeasts.

"Why don't yeasts live forever?" he asked himself.

In 1997 he and Guarente identified how a specific gene controls the yeasts'
aging process. Two years later he started his own laboratory at Harvard with
the intention of studying the gene's product, a protein called sirtuin.

"If you eat a high-fat meal, you're turning off your SIRT1 gene, and if you
skip a meal you'll turn it on," says Sinclair, referring to the gene that
produces sirtuin in mice and humans. He believes that resveratrol activates
the same gene, but some scientists are not yet convinced.
"David's work is very important in that it provides evidence that sirtuins
function to forestall aging effects," says Guarente. "There's controversy
with the calorie restriction idea, but support is growing."

Sinclair's Harvard lab now employs 18 scientists, from oncologists to
botanists to synthetic chemists, working on everything from worms to mice to
human cells.

He has never forgotten what drew him to molecular biology in the first
place. "It's a horrible thing to be given consciousness and mortality at the
same time," he says.

And, he said, it's an exciting time to be a molecular biologist.

"We have a grasp finally on how to turn on the body's defenses against
aging," says Sinclair. "It's as though we're a year beyond having split the
atom."
Hometown: West Roxbury.

Family: Wife, Sandra, who's German ("I dragged her here."); daughters
Natalie, 4, and Madeleine, 2.

Hobbies: As a good Australian, Sinclair used to windsurf. Also, he sailed
and rollerbladed, but there's no time for that anymore. "When you're sitting
on the potential to treat millions of people's diseases, you can't take time
off. I'm lucky if I have time to shower."

On government support of research: "It's not sufficient to just pray. You
need to do experiments."

On humanity's genetic relatives: "From a gene perspective, we're an upright
mouse."

http://www.boston.co..._aging_process/

[maestro949]

Madiran wines from France appear to be the best for health. They are high in tannins and made from the Tannat grape. Madiran wines are very high in polyphenols including the non-flavonoid resveratrol. Other flavonoids and non-flavonoids may also be contributing to the benefits we are seeing.

Research in nature magazine recently indicates a reduced risk of coronary heart disease from drinking these wines:

Abtract

Regular, moderate consumption of red wine is linked to a reduced risk of coronary heart disease and to lower overall mortality1, but the relative contribution of wine's alcohol and polyphenol components to these effects is unclear2. Here we identify procyanidins as the principal vasoactive polyphenols in red wine and show that they are present at higher concentrations in wines from areas of southwestern France and Sardinia, where traditional production methods ensure that these compounds are efficiently extracted during vinification. These regions also happen to be associated with increased longevity in the population.

From the study

High consumption of polyphenols inhibits atherosclerosis in experimental models. Redwine polyphenols induce endothelium-dependent dilatation of blood vessels and suppress the synthesis of endothelin-1 (ET-1), a peptide that has a vasoconstricting effect5–7, and this may account for their anti-atherosclerotic activity.

Red-wine polyphenols are a complex mixture of flavonoids (mainly anthocyanins and flavanols) and non-flavonoids (such as resveratrol and gallic acid). Flavan-3-ols are the most abundant, with oligomeric and polymeric procyanidins (condensed tannins) often representing 25–50% of the total phenolic constituents...

Boston Globe Article

French wine found rich in ingredients that protect heart

[aaaaaaal]

Hello everybody.

I just joined a few minutes ago on here as Im interested in immortality.

While I am only 19 years of age, my father is 78 and has very high blood pressure.

Could anyone inform me whether Resveratrol can help high blood pressure?

I myself also want to be fit and health and to live for a long time.

So basically, would just like to know where the best source for Resveratrol is and how much I should take a day, and how much my father should take a day.

Also has any research been done on any animals other than mice? I ask because I have a fantastic and highly intelligent dogerman who maybe I should start giving Resveratrol to?

My vet tells me he will only live for between 8-15 years and thats the worst news I've ever heard, he's a companion like no other.

p.s- heres a pic of the lovely fellow (his name is pingo)



Thanks in advance for your help.