281 replies to this topic

[fearfrost]

the so called SUPER Longevinex (100 mg resveratrol) is the same price as the normal Longevinex (40 mg)

It is on the website and has been for a while:

Longevinex Product Ordering

[deftndumb1]

Sorry, fearfrost, I was only looking at the page with labeling and ingredients. I stand corrected.

[abefij]

Emodin, present in most Resveratrol formulations, is an anthraquinone. Anthraquinones build up in the liver over time possibly leading to hepatotoxicity, and consequently renal impairment.

I've found these two case studies (and more):
http://ndt.oxfordjou.../full/19/7/1916
http://www.ncbi.nlm....3&dopt=Abstract

This information has made me very wary of taking resveratrol supplements containing emodin for any length of time.

Anyone with any insights?

[health_nutty]

Hmmm, I'll have to research this some more. When I do a search on pubmed for "emodin and liver" all the results come up as hepa-protective. However, the first link does have some interesting information II'll have to look at in more detail.

Another pubmed link to look at.

"Emodin has the effect of promoting liver regeneration and improving liver function in rats after reduced size transplantation. The possible mechanism is improving proliferation of liver cell and protecting liver cells from injury."
http://www.ncbi.nlm....2&dopt=Abstract

[abefij]

Thanks for the link. I may have been too hasty with my judgement regarding hepatotoxicity, which isn't necessarily directly tied to emodin itself, but another anthraquinone. Although emodin in conjunction with other substances, perhaps NSAIDS, may possibly have the same effect.

Does anyone have any good references with regard to the renal effects of emodin? Some toxicity info is here: http://ntp.niehs.nih...473662E6EA1FB05

I'm not sure how this translates into anything meaningful with respect to the amounts present in resveratrol supplements.

I've got three bottles of the Solaray Resveratrol, which I'm not sure I'm going to take at this point. Which supplements do not have emodin?

[health_nutty]

These are gigantic doses. 100mg/kg to 1.1g/kg!!! To put this in perspective a high emodin resveratrol (20% emodin) of 500mg would contain 100mg of emodin.

"Groups of 65 male and 65 female rats were fed diets containing 0, 280, 830, or 2,500 ppm emodin (equivalent to average daily doses of approximately 110, 320, or 1,000 mg/kg to males and 120, 370, or 1,100 mg/kg to females) for 105 weeks."

Conclusions copied for the lazy:
"Under the conditions of these 2-year feed studies, there was no evidence of carcinogenic activity of emodin in male F344/N rats exposed to 280, 830, or 2,500 ppm. There was equivocal evidence of carcinogenic activity of emodin in female F344/N rats based on a marginal increase in the incidence of Zymbal's gland carcinoma. There was equivocal evidence of carcinogenic activity of emodin in male B6C3F1 mice based on a low incidence of uncommon renal tubule neoplasms. There was no evidence of carcinogenic activity of emodin in female B6C3F1 mice exposed to 312, 625, or 1,250 ppm.

Exposure of rats to emodin resulted in increased incidences of renal tubule hyaline droplets and pigmentation in males, increased incidences of renal tubule hyaline droplets in females, and increased severities of renal tubule pigmentation in males and females. Emodin exposure resulted in increased incidences of renal tubule pigmentation in male and female mice and increased incidences of nephropathy in female mice.

Incidences of mononuclear cell leukemia decreased in male and female rats exposed to 2,500 ppm"

[maxwatt]

Thanks for the link.  I may have been too hasty with my judgement regarding hepatotoxicity, which isn't necessarily directly tied to emodin itself, but another anthraquinone.  Although emodin in conjunction with other substances, perhaps NSAIDS, may possibly have the same effect. 

Does anyone have any good references with regard to the renal effects of emodin?  Some toxicity info is here: http://ntp.niehs.nih...473662E6EA1FB05

I'm not sure how this translates into anything meaningful with respect to the amounts present in resveratrol supplements. 

I've got three bottles of the Solaray Resveratrol, which I'm not sure I'm going to take at this point.  Which supplements do not have emodin?

There is an informative post on emodin with references on the morelife group by Paul Wakfer:
http://health.groups...fe/message/1339

The question is the dose. I was very unhappy with 250 mg of emodin a day. Paul has said he can tolerate 300 mg. I find 50 to 100 mg of emodin is still an effective laxative. Some people say they get used to the amount in their resveratrol supplements. IF you ramp up your dose, or combine low emodin Resv with higher emodin supplements, and you find it tolerable, I'd say go ahead and use it.

If it were not for the (undesired) laxative effect it would be beneficial. Perhaps a little of it is a good thing. Some of the benefits documented by Paul include:

increases glucose uptake in 3T3-Ll cells

blocks the SARS coronavirus spike protein and angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 interaction.

anti-cariogenic

Antidiabetic

treats murine nonalcoholic fatty liver induced by high caloric laboratory chow.

[shadowrun]

Do you think we should cycle RESV use?
- Essentially if someone stopped taking it for a length of time would there be an adverse reaction?

[tintinet]

Dunno. So far, even a high levels, subjectively, with the exception of emodin effects from high emodin preparations, I don't think I'd detect I was taking it. Off hand, I don't know of any reason to cycle, or of any specific experiments investigating cyclical RESV use. Perhaps if one suspected toxicity via contaminant in one's RESV preparation cycling might mitigate the toxin's impact.

ISTM cycling of any preparation containing significant emodin would result in more issues (bowel motility variability), given my experience so far, anyway.

[curious_sle]

I don't know... I don't like that super-longevinex and their own (!) unifying theorie of aging :-) whoa. (Now Longevinex is a super-chelator for copper and iron and that does the trick too since you get old due to. erm. calcium?? hm... )

[saxiephon]

I requested an analysis of the RevGenetics composition which contains 500 mg. of trans-resveratrol per capsule. I am especially interested in the Emodin content because of its laxative effects.

[saxiephon]

I just received the emodin content at 25 to 65 mg per capsule depending on the batch. This company seems genuinely interested in customer requirements.

[fearfrost]

saxiephon.... not that I dont believe you, but all your posts so far have been pumping RevGenetics. Why?? And how did you get a response so fast for your emodin inquiry!? You got an analysis of composition in 2.5 hours?? And your alias was just born today...

And check out the affiliate program on the RevGenetics site. Using paydotcom.com I see. Can someone say fishy? I mean, even the website looks like it was put together by a two year old. And I just noticed that the site makes some untrue claims on its FAQ page: "provides the best price per milligram of Resveratrol". Sorry, but there are cheaper places to get resveratrol than RevGenetics.

Im guessing I could find even more questionable material on RevGenetics, but Im bored and definitely not buying from this company. RevGenetics (and saxiephon) will have to do a better job if they are going to convince people they are legit.

And you know, I am truly sorry if this is for real, but honestly there are so many red flags that it is unbelievable. Good luck.

This company seems genuinely interested in customer requirements.

.... bull crap

[saxiephon]

Fearfost: sorry if I've offended you! I thought it interesting that someone is working on a high dose TR product and so asked for more information. I too was surprised when they responded to my question so quickly. I have since suggested that they lower the emodin content to 25 mg or less. They stated that they are looking at it. It appears that the product is still being developed. I told them that I would try the product if I could be assured that the laxative effect was low or eliminated. I am in no way associated with the company or recommending their product. I am simply stated my E-mail experience so please chill out.

[tintinet]

Where did they come up with their dosage recommendations?

"Our capsules have a high amount of Resveratrol, as we have looked at the various studies and found no capsules being offered with the equivalent amount of Resveratrol as reported by the scientific studies."

"One capsule per 50lbs of personal weight per day. (Example: A 200lb man would take 4 pills a day)"

200 lbs = ~90 kg. 4 tabs @ 500 mg/tab rsv = 2 grams rsv. 22 mg/kg approximates the higher of the dosages given experimental animals, and way more than the lower level intake Sinclair claims to be using....

And I thought I might be pushing it at 10 mg/kg/day....

[fumento]

I ordered one bottle of Bioforte, some time after which I was notified by UPS that I had to pay $20.75 to receive an undescribed package from Singapore. I should have turned it down at that point but didn't and paid, only to find it was my Bioforte. To make matters worse, I just got an invoice today from UPS acknowledging the original payment but wanting an additional $20.75! You'd better believe I'd have turned it down if I'd known it would be $41.50! So this doesn't make UPS look good but it make Bioflu stink to high heaven. Order if you dare, but do not pay a customs fee. Plenty of people supply this stuff; take your business elsewhere.

[proteomist]

Odd. My order (four bottles) was shipped in two separate shipments by UPS. Both arrived while I was out of the country and neither had any sort of COD fee.

[tintinet]

Was a while ago, but my order came through, professionally packaged (or appears so), as promised.

[gbf100]

I would stay away from this company Biotivia. I placed my order 3 and a half weeks ago and still have not seen the product. Placed multiple calls to their "support" line which is not answered ever and just asks you to leave a voice mail each time and promising to get back to you. So I did just that and left a message with my info saying I would like to know what became of my order. I have not received a call back.

Looks like a $40 lesson in dealing with shady internet peddlers.

[aaaaaaal]

gbf100, i ordered from Biotivia and they are 100% legit.

I received my resveratrol within 5 days.

Paul.

[proteomist]

It took them about two months to fill my order. I did not try to communicate with them in that period. Ultimately they delivered as promised.

[curious_sle]

sounds like a place i would not order from

[mikeinnaples]

Placed my order January 24th.

It is nearly May and I have yet to receive my order. About a month ago they sent me a 'free' bottle in an attempt to placate me. The label didnt fit on the bottle and was smudged. Against my better judgement I took them anyways. I didnt notice any ill effects so I am hoping it was actually resveratrol in the caps and not something else. [:o]

Anyways, I spoke repeatedly with James Betz who is supposedly a Director at the company requesting my product or my money back. To date I have not received either.

[tintinet]

Odd schism, ISTM.

James has been rapidly responsive to all my inquiries regarding Bioforte, and I received my shipment of the product (although that was weeks/months ago at this point) without a hitch.

[mirian]

Curious_ sle, you should stop taking aspirin:

ASPIRIN does not appear to prevent mortality from strokes or heart attacks. [American Journal of Cardiology Online August 2006]

[mirian]

Hold tight boys here comes:

biotivia.com's TRANSMAX: 500mg of 98% standardized knotweed making 490mg Trans Resveratrol per each green Licap Vcap. So, even vegans can take, too. Comes out within 30 days. Only $1.30 per Vcap so way cheaper than Longevinex especially for dosage being 5 times per Vcap:

http://www.biotivia....max/default.php

Date: Sun, 27 May 2007
From: "James Betz" <James@bioflu.com>
Subject: Re: 5 questions on Transmax.

It will ship from Kansas City. James

>--- James Betz <James@biotivia.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for your inquiry and for your very helpful
> > information. Please see my replies below:

1. What's the prices on it ?
> >
> > It is $79.95 per bottle of 60 Vcaps of 500mg each.
> >
> >
> > >2. How many mg of trans resveratrol per Licap Vcap
> > ?
> >
> > 500mg
> >
> >
> > >3. So, would be 490mg of trans resveratrol since
> > >standardized at 98% ?
> >
> > It is actually closer to 99%.
> >
> >
> > >4. What date will it start shipping ?
> >
> > In one month from now or sooner. I have obtained
> > all approvals to manufacture, have procured the
> > 99% material and need only to finalize the
> > packaging and a few processing details.
> >
> > >5. What's all the ingredients including other
> > >ingredients ?
> >
> > No other ingredients whatsoever.
> >
> > Thanks again, James

[mirian]

Curious_sle, need to do your research men shouldn't supplement with any calcium, and should ideally keep your dietary calcium at no more than 150mg:

Dr. Andrew Weil now recommends no supplemental calcium for men and no more than 700mg of supplemental calcium for women daily. [Dr. Andrew Weil's, Self Healing, Aug 2006, p.5]

Men who consumed more than 600mg of calcium daily had a 32% higher risk of prostate cancer than those who consumed no more than 150mg of calcium a day over 11 years. [American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Oct. 2001] "One possible explanation is that too much calcium reduces the body's level of vitamin D in its active form, which has been shown to inhibit prostate cancer cells from growing in size and number," says Dr. Walter Willett.[Dr. Andrew Weil's Self Healing, Aug. 2006, p. 4]

"More than 800mg of calcium a day from food or vitamin supplements (800mg is the US average from food alone) may be unnecessary as long as vitamin D levels are normal."[JAMA Nov. 9, 2005] "To me, this shows that the main issue with calcium is absorbing it and using it, rather than not getting enough in. Vitamin D is the key to absorbing and using calcium."[Dr. Andrew Weil's, Self Healing, Feb 2006, p.4]

SUPPLEMENTAL CALCIUM CAN MAKE MENS RISK OF PROSTATE CANCER SKYROCKET.[MENS HEALTH MAGAZINE, MAR 2007, P.72]

A Journal says Calcium citrate doesn't need stomach acid for absorption. Citrate form also would be the least likely calcium type to encourage kidney stones.

High-dose Calcium interferes with the absorption of other minerals such as magnesium and zinc. [Nutrition Reviews 55:1-9,1997]

A high ratio of calcium over magnesium blood serum and cerebrospinal fluid is observed in depressed patients. [Neuropsychobiology 39:63-70,1999]



Nature's natural calcium channel bloccker is magnesium and totally rocks:

Only 4% of magnesium oxide is absorbed. [Magnesium Research 14:257-62,2001]

Magnesium inhibits the enzymes that breakdown collagen.[Atherosclerosis 166: 271-277, 2003]

"Look for amino acid chelation-even better, glycinated amino acid chelation."[Earl Mindell's Vitamin Bible For The 21st Century Book, 1999, p. 258]

In this study, people weren't supplementing with calcium. Just at least 50mg of magnesium. Calcium and magnesium compete as magnesium is a natural calcium channel blocker. Therefore, any men's multi ideally should have no calcium according to Dr. Weil, and at least 50mg according to the above referenced study !

Magnesium glycinate is least likely to cause loose stools. Magnesium citrate is most likely to inhibit kidney stones, but 120mg of IP6 inhibits kidney stones too.

PEOPLE TAKING AT LEAST "50MG" OF MAGNESIUM SUPPLEMENTS DAILY WERE 22% LESS LIKELY TO HAVE ELEVATED CRP LEVELS.[NUTRITION RESEARCH 2006, 26(3):193-196]

1 IN 3 AMERICANS HAVE HIGH CRP LEVELS.[JOURNAL CLINICAL HYPERTENSION 6(2004(10)PP.562-568]

HIGH LEVELS OF MAGNESIUM WERE ASSOCIATED WITH A 40% DECREASE IN ALL-CAUSE MORTALITY RISK.[ EPIDEMIOLOGY VOL.17,NO.3, MAY 2006]

"MAGNESIUM COULD HELP YOU LIVE LONGER. MEN WITH THE HIGHEST BLOOD LEVELS OF THE MINERAL HAVE A 40% LOWER RISK OF EARLY DEATH THAN THOSE WITH THE LOWEST LEVELS." [MENS HEALTH MAGAZINE, MAR. 2007, P. 44]

"A NEW STUDY IN THE JOURNAL OF AMERICAN COLLEGE OF NUTRITION, PEOPLE LOW ON MAGNESIUM ARE UP TO TWO TIMES MORE LIKELY TO HAVE ELEVATED CRP LEVELS THAN THOSE MEETING THEIR QUOTA.'[MENS HEALTH MAGAZINE, FEB 2006, P.117]

Study noted that individuals with higher magnesium
levels generally had a stronger hand grip, more power
in their legs and were able to extend their knees and
ankles with more force. Dr. Dominguez, who headed up
the study, noted that 68% of adults get less than the
recommended daily allowance of magnesium. Magnesium and muscle performance.[Am J Clin Nutr. 2006 Aug;84(2):419-26]

"Magnesium-more than 350mg a day reduced colon cancer by 25%."[Prevention Magazine, Jan. 2007, p.140]

"There is also evidence that magnesium (200mg daily) reduces water retention and bloating."[Prevention Magazine, Sep. 2005, p. 179]

[mirian]

Sorry, misunderstood Transmax is just a standard Vcaps. Not a Pfizer Capsugel Licaps like Lonngevinex & Longevital he just emailed me back. I was just making extra sure:

Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007
From: "James Betz" <James@bioflu.com>
Subject: Re: 2 more questions on Transmax

1. Our caps are all vegetable two piece capsules filled with pure
extract, which is a powder in its natural form. We have no liquid in
our product.
2. The caps are called Vcaps, not Licaps.
Hope this is helpful. Kind regards, James

6/1/2007, you wrote:
>1. So, your Licaps aren't liquid like Longevinex &
>Longevital ? If so, what's the carrier. Longevinex
>uses rice bran oil, and Longevital uses extra virgin
>olive oil.
>
>2. The Vcaps are Capsugel Licaps from Pfizer, right ?

[mirian]

So, Country Life Resveratrol Plus is still the best deal at only about $1 per 500mg of T-RSV (about 20 cents per 100mg Vcap) on iherb.com ! Plus you get the grape seed extract that helps preserve the trans resveratrol.

Resveratrol is more stable with grape seed extract.[Journal Medicinal Food 9 (1) 2006, 11-14]

"Faithfully take just 100mg a day of resveratrol to add up to 10 years to your life. The compound lowered the risk of breast and colon cancer by as much as 80%. Lowers your risk of heart attack by 52%." [WOMEN'S WORLD, JUN 22 2004]

[Anthony_Loera]

Hmm...

it's close, but that is not the best price you can get for Country life. You can get is at about 0.93 cents per 500mg (5 capsules), of course RevGenetics is the same price with less capsules to take:

http://www.imminst.o...&f=6&t=15059&s=

Anthony