281 replies to this topic

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Addison,
send me an email request for it here:

anthony @ revgenetics.com

and it will be no problem.

By the way if anyone will be in Las Vegas in July 20-22, please visit our booth at the 70th Annual Natural Products Trade Show and Convention.

All of these folks will be there as well:
http://www.naturalpr...me=ts_showfloor

The RevGenetics booth will be #1372, I will personally be there to greet you if you come by.

thanks
Anthony Loera

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 14 June 2007 - 09:41 PM.

[krillin]

Curious_sle, need to do your research men shouldn't supplement with any calcium, and should ideally keep your dietary calcium at no more than 150mg:

Dr. Andrew Weil now recommends no supplemental calcium for men and no more than 700mg of supplemental calcium for women daily. [Dr. Andrew Weil's, Self Healing, Aug 2006, p.5]

Men who consumed more than 600mg of calcium daily had a 32% higher risk of prostate cancer than those who consumed no more than 150mg of calcium a day over 11 years. [American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Oct. 2001] "One possible explanation is that too much calcium reduces the body's level of vitamin D in its active form, which has been shown to inhibit prostate cancer cells from growing in size and number," says Dr. Walter Willett.[Dr. Andrew Weil's Self Healing, Aug. 2006, p. 4]

Those figures are for dairy calcium, not total calcium. You can read the full text online for free instead of swallowing Weil's misinformation.

"More than 800mg of calcium a day from food or vitamin supplements (800mg is the US average from food alone)  may be unnecessary as long as vitamin D levels are normal."[JAMA Nov. 9, 2005]

Why did you include this statement? It demolishes your 150 mg recommendation.

[meatwad]

Need someone to man a booth? I'd love to take a vacation aruond july 20th

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi meat...

I actually already have Mike, my friend and associate going to Las Vegas with me, but thanks for the offer.

[thumb]

Anthony Loera

[VP.]

Looks like a Japanese company plans on adding Resveratrol to sports drinks. They have submitted a patent after doing mice studies similar to if not as rigorous as the Dr. Auwerx study. They try running, swimming and muscle strength and get dramatic but not peer reviewed results. It's not clear how much resveratrol was given to the mice but they claim 0.2% of dry food intake. In a human that would be about 1 gram a day if you have a 500g diet. That's just a quick estimate. I'm not sure how many grams a day a human eats? Here are some of their results:

The results in Table 2 reveal that compared with the mice of the control diet group, the mice of the resveratrol -containing test diet group significantly- extended the maximal swimming time after rearing for 10 weeks . Therefore resveratrol has an endurance improving effect and an anti-fatigue effect; and that it has a motor function improving effect. For this reason Resveratrol is useful as an endurance improver, anti-fatigue agent and motor function improver.

On oxygen consumption:

Moreover , the oxygen consumption of the mice to which the resveratrol -containing feed was given is significantly high compared with that of the SAM-Pl control group and resveratrol has an inhibitory action against aging- associated reduction in energy metabolism.

On muscle strength:

The results shown in Table 10 reveals that the maximum strength of extensor digitorum longus muscle of the SAM-Pl control group which are senescence accelerated mice is significantly low compared with that of the SAM-Rl control group of the ordinarily aged mice and that the maximum muscle strength decreases with aging. Moreover, compared with the SAM-Pl control group, the maximum muscle strength of the mice to which the resveratrol -containing feed was given is significantly high and resveratrol is effective for inhibiting aging-associated reduction in muscle strength.

The funny thing is that their drink formulations contain very little resveratrol. Nothing like the amount the mice were given. I have to say that my endurance is the one area that I have seen dramatic results in since taking resveratrol. I'll get my yearly blood work done in September to see if anything else has improved.

http://www.wipo.int/...=0&DOC_TYPE=PCT

[mirian]

Hey Krillin,

Dr.Weil doesn't give misinformation he's a Harvad Medical school grad unlike you !

Whether it's from dairy or not excess Ca for men is bad !!!

SUPPLEMENTAL CALCIUM CAN MAKE MENS RISK OF PROSTATE CANCER SKYROCKET.[MENS HEALTH MAGAZINE, MAR 2007, P.72]

Finland has the highest all-cause mortality risk and highest dairy consumption. Japan has the lowest all-cause mortality risk and lowest dairy consumption. [Int J Cardio 33:19,1991]

Elevated calcium levels increase the risk of dying from cancer by 58%. [J Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 81: 2149, 1996]

A high ratio of Ca over Mg blood serum and cerebrospinal fluid is observed in depressed patients. [Neuropsychobiology 39: 63-70, 1999]

Dr. Walter Willet who actively works for Harvard makes a lot of sense. He's smarter than us here !

Men who consumed more than 600mg of calcium daily had a 32% higher risk of prostate cancer than those who consumed no more than 150mg of calcium a day over 11 years. [American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Oct. 2001] "One possible explanation is that too much calcium reduces the body's level of vitamin D in its active form, which has been shown to inhibit prostate cancer cells from growing in size and number," says Dr. Walter Willett.[Dr. Andrew Weil's Self Healing, Aug. 2006, p. 4]

Yes, 800mg is the average Americans' intake of Ca daily. This is part of what makes an Americans diet one of the worst in the world. Japan has one of the lowest intakes of Ca and lower osteoporosis. They get vitamin K2 from Natto (MK-7) from their fermented soy foods like tofu. Japans average lifespan thats one of the highest in the world.

Want to be rich take notes from someone rich. Want to live longer take notes from Japan.




Hey Anthony_Loera

Country Life is still the most affordable for what you get.

You get free GSE-grape seed Extract:

Resveratrol is more stable with grape seed extract.[Journal Medicinal Food 9 (1) 2006, 11-14]

Just 3 Vcaps daily makes 150mg GSE:

"Grape-seed extract may be the cheapest pill you can pop to help prevent a heart attack, 150mg daily for one month lowered systolic blood pressure by 13 points and diastolic by 6 points.[Mens Health Magazine, Jun. 2006, p.94]

6 Vcaps has 300mg GSE. 300mg of GSE even lowers oxidized LDL !

RevGenetics gives you nothing but knotweed is all at the same price.

[mirian]

It's good that Country Life RSV makes you take more Vcaps. Since, by Journal RSV lasts only up to 9 hours in circulation. So, you should take every 8 hours !

[mirian]

Magnesium is the opposite of Ca (safe upper limit for Mg from supplements is 350mg daily):

Only 4% of magnesium oxide is absorbed. [Magnesium Research 14:257-62,2001]

Magnesium inhibits the enzymes that breakdown collagen.[Atherosclerosis 166: 271-277, 2003]

"Look for amino acid chelation-even better, glycinated amino acid chelation."[Earl Mindell's Vitamin Bible For The 21st Century Book, 1999, p. 258]

In this study, people weren't supplementing with calcium. Just at least 50mg of magnesium. Calcium and magnesium compete as magnesium is a natural calcium channel blocker. Therefore, any men's multi ideally should have no calcium according to Dr. Weil, and at least 50mg according to the above referenced study !

Magnesium glycinate is least likely to cause loose stools.

PEOPLE TAKING AT LEAST "50MG" OF MAGNESIUM SUPPLEMENTS DAILY WERE 22% LESS LIKELY TO HAVE ELEVATED CRP LEVELS.[NUTRITION RESEARCH 2006, 26(3):193-196]

1 IN 3 AMERICANS HAVE HIGH CRP LEVELS.[JOURNAL CLINICAL HYPERTENSION 6(2004(10)PP.562-568]

HIGH LEVELS OF MAGNESIUM WERE ASSOCIATED WITH A 40% DECREASE IN ALL-CAUSE MORTALITY RISK.[ EPIDEMIOLOGY VOL.17,NO.3, MAY 2006]

"MAGNESIUM COULD HELP YOU LIVE LONGER. MEN WITH THE HIGHEST BLOOD LEVELS OF THE MINERAL HAVE A 40% LOWER RISK OF EARLY DEATH THAN THOSE WITH THE LOWEST LEVELS." [MENS HEALTH MAGAZINE, MAR. 2007, P. 44]

"A NEW STUDY IN THE JOURNAL OF AMERICAN COLLEGE OF NUTRITION, PEOPLE LOW ON MAGNESIUM ARE UP TO TWO TIMES MORE LIKELY TO HAVE ELEVATED CRP LEVELS THAN THOSE MEETING THEIR QUOTA.'[MENS HEALTH MAGAZINE, FEB 2006, P.117]

Study noted that individuals with higher magnesium levels generally had a stronger hand grip, more power in their legs and were able to extend their knees and ankles with more force. Dr. Dominguez, who headed up the study, noted that 68% of adults get less than the recommended daily allowance of magnesium. Magnesium and muscle performance.[Am J Clin Nutr. 2006 Aug;84(2):419-26]

"Magnesium-more than 350mg a day reduced colon cancer by 25%."[Prevention Magazine, Jan. 2007, p.140]

"There is also evidence that magnesium (200mg daily) reduces water retention and bloating."[Prevention Magazine, Sep. 2005, p. 179]

[maxwatt]

It's good that Country Life RSV makes you take more Vcaps. Since, by Journal RSV lasts only up to 9 hours in circulation. So, you should take every 8 hours !

Not necessarily. It may be that the peak serum level is what is important, not the average serum level. Since resveratrol apparently acts by linking to and activating the SIRT1-7 genes, one may assume they remain activated AFTER resveratrol is gone from circulation in the body. It is possible that a high peak level is needed to better activate the SIRT genes.

[Anthony_Loera]

Mirian,

you said:
"Resveratrol is more stable with grape seed extract. [Journal Medicinal Food 9 (1) 2006, 11-14]"

The fact is that Resveratrol is stable for 2 years in a good environment. If you are going to buy Resveratrol capsules and not take them for a long time (over 1 year), I suggest you buy "RevGenetics Shield" to protect the trans-resveratrol from oxidation. I believe the study does not mention anything about trans-resveratrol so it is incomplete.


you said:
"Most affordable for what you get..."

Just by adding lower cost items to your formulation instead of more rsv, do you increase the value of your product or cheapen it? It's really tough to say. But if you really need GSE, why not simply buy some "Old Orchid 100% Grape Juice" found in publix, or you local grocery? They have been adding GSE since 2004, and its probably less expensive. http://www.oldorchar...4_grapeseed.htm


[Mens Health Magazine, Jun. 2006, p.94] <- was this an ad, kind of sounds like one. Also, we have here folks in our own forum that have really good results taking rsv from japanese knotweed.

Mirian, it sounds interesting but I have to say that most studies have shown Resveratrol to produce great results without GSE.

I do find the calcium and magnesium studies interesting though.

Thanks
Anthony Loera

[mirian]

Nonetheless, quercetin & GSE both make great companions to resveratrol since they all. Quercetin because it is also naturally present in redwine and actiated SIRT1 just not as much as T-RSV. GSE also like RSV by Journals lowers BP and is against skin and colon cancers.

[krillin]

Hey Krillin,

Dr.Weil doesn't give misinformation

You just repeated his lie that the low calcium group was getting less than 150 mg calcium per day. Either that or you misquoted him.

he's a Harvad Medical school grad unlike you!

It's spelled "Harvard" or "Havahd," not "Harvad."

Want to be rich take notes from someone rich. Want to live longer take notes from Japan.

Very well, here's a presentation by a Japanese MD PhD

http://www.camgwater...NishimutaMz.pdf

His calcium recommendation is 10 mg/kg, or 600-700 mg. (page 40) Less than that and you're in negative calcium balance territory and at increased risk for osteoporosis. Your 150 mg recommendation is totally irresponsible.

[tintinet]

Hey Krillin,

Dr.Weil doesn't give misinformation

Sorry- not a valid point: appeal to "authority" fallacy. "Authorities," such as Weil, are just as subject
to various errors as are we mortals (sorry- maybe that's just me here!)

he's a Harvad Medical school grad unlike you!

Same as above fallacy.

Want to be rich take notes from someone rich. Want to live longer take notes from Japan.

Maybe, or maybe you just oughta have Japanese gentetics.

[dolphin1959]

Biotivia. I have posted this in another part of this site, which I find somewhat confusing. I do NOT work for Biotivia. My interest in resveratrol is because I have multiple myeloma not because I want to live forever. I was diagnosed 4 years ago and told I had less than 3 years to live. My very long interest fascination with resveratrol really had to do with its ability to reduce cholesterol levels. I have always had very low levels, lower than the lowest normal normally. I never understood this until the French paradox was reported. My entire family is full of peanut butter addicts.

I had started taking Longevinex because of a link to the L.A. times simply because of this--not because of its anti-cancer effect. I had heard about this but never really knew much about it.

Here is an astounding link--click on full text

http://cancerres.aac...ract/65/21/9943

We myeloma patients have the most active internet support list group of all cancer groups, even though we have a relatively rare cancer (but a million people worldwide have this disease).

Among these is a brilliant cardiologist who told me he would take resveratrol if he could find a decent source. He explained to me the problem with it is the oxidation.

I thought great--I wasted all that money on Longevinex, and I had been taking a lot.
But then I found an article that implied that this is what Dr. Sinclair takes himself.

Out of the blue, I got an email from someone who had never emailed me before.
She told me about Biotivia. She told me she disliked the Longevinex hype. I read about Biotivia's distribution problems, so I had her send me some. Actually, I received 3 bottles from the company 7 days after I ordered it. I live in San Diego.

The man who runs the company, James Betz is both helpful and knowledgeable. For some reason, he just does not really say the things I think he needs to say. He has a PhD in molecular biology and has many PhDs among his technical staff. He told me that he doubts other nutraceutical companies have such a quality technical staff, if they indeed even have one at all.

He also was gracious enough to extend to me a discount as a cancer patient. If you are not aware of this, the price of cancer drugs, especially for a rare form of cancer, is so high that some insured people cannot even afford the co-pays. I have never ever been offered any type of discounts.

I posted this to our internet group, and I was suspended, as it was seen as advertising.

James Betz made no promises about what his product would do against cancer--this was my idea. I even posted this to our internet group, over and over again--that I had no idea if it would work against cancer or not.

One group member in particular said it was a complete scam. I asked this man to write to James Betz. He did, and James answered every single one of his questions.

Even so this group member said something about if "I wanted to believe something badly enough"..which I do not understand. I have no idea if this will do anything against my cancer, but even if it were to reduce the amount of the awful drugs we have to take, that would be more than enough. James Betz answered every single one of his questions, and this man even said he would keep in contact with him.
Yet this doubter, one Sean Diggings from Perth, Australia, never retracted anything he said about this company being a scam.

The product will be tested by Consumer Labs, which tests these kind of things. (This doubter is actually a subscriber to some sort of newsletter put out by Consumer Labs) For BioForte, the amount of trans-resveratrol per pill is about 250 mg, although this has yet to be documented by Consumer Labs. James Betz just sent me another bottle free so that I can send to a lab of my choice.

Also, James had suggested a certain mix of Transmax, which is not yet available, and
Bioforte. I can post the reasons if you want.

I asked him about quercetin, and he said there were some scientists on both side of the issues, but most studies have been done with resveratrol alone.

So this is how I am doing it, at 4 grams per day, Bioforte alone for now.

Also, I had suspected that the antibiotic Biaxin, (clarithromycin) might potentiate resveratrol. We use this in myeloma to allow us to use steroids at lower doses. I am not sure why it is not used outside of treatment for myeloma. Biaxin also potentiates many other drugs. This means it makes any drug more powerful at a lower dose and makes the other drug persist in your system longer. James had one of his assistants look into it, and he found that resveratrol and Biaxin are synergistic. I doubt you will ever find this anywhere else but here.

This information is impossible to find anywhere else. As a new company, it has had its share of problems. I can post all of his answers to the person who said he and his company are scammers.

I have been extremely impressed. The man has a PhD but prefers to be called James.

He was happy to document anything that anyone wanted. I hope the U.S. government does not stop his company from shipping, as I have read elsewhere on this site that such a product would actually be considered a research drug. I must email him about this. I have no idea about this.

He was also quite interested all the reports that I have from the M.D. Anderson clinic about curcumin. Dr. Aggawal there has spent almost his entire life studying this compound. I tak 8 to 12 grams per day of this and can tell you it definitely has an anti-inflammatory effect. I do not necesserily think it does anything against myeloma,although it was in a phase I trial there. Dr. Aggarwal also has done some research on resveratrol

I would be happy to send anyone all of these reports if you email me, but it will be after a week, as they are very time-consuming to email. Dr. Aggarwal had made a PDF file about curcumin that is a work of art.

I can also post the email exhanges between James and me, or between Sean Diggins, the doubter who called the company a scam, and James Betz, if anyone would like.

Once again, I have no financial interest in the company. And I have ordered additional bottles the same way as everyone else, without asking for any type of cancer discount. I think just his product alone will save me a lot of money over Longevinex. I was taking 15 pills of Longevinex per day or up to 20. I had no ida
how little trans-reveratrol that actually is. But that was over the limit I could even afford.

Alex Maas
a.maas@cox.net
San Diego

[sUper GeNius]

This post reminds me of those little "articles" one reads in a newspaper that has the little disclaimer "advertisement" at the top.

Biotivia.  I have posted this in another part of this site, which I find somewhat confusing.  I do NOT work for Biotivia.  My interest in resveratrol is because I have multiple myeloma not because I want to live forever.  I was diagnosed 4 years ago and told I had less than 3 years to live.  My very long interest fascination with resveratrol really had to do with its ability to reduce cholesterol levels.  I have always had very low levels, lower than the lowest normal normally.  I never understood this until the French paradox was reported.  My entire family is full of peanut butter addicts.

I had started taking Longevinex because of a link to the L.A. times simply because of this--not because of its anti-cancer effect.  I had heard about this but never really knew much about it.

Here is an astounding link--click on full text

http://cancerres.aac...ract/65/21/9943

We myeloma patients have the most active internet support list group of all cancer groups, even though we have a relatively rare cancer (but a million people worldwide have this disease).

Among these is a brilliant cardiologist who told me he would take resveratrol if he could find a decent source.  He explained to me the problem with it is the oxidation.

I thought great--I wasted all that money on Longevinex, and I had been taking a lot.
But then I found an article that implied that this is what Dr. Sinclair takes himself.

Out of the blue, I got an email from someone who had never emailed me before.
She told me about Biotivia.  She told me she disliked the Longevinex hype.  I read about Biotivia's distribution problems, so I had her send me some.  Actually, I received 3 bottles from the company 7 days after I ordered it. I live in San Diego.

The man who runs the company, James Betz is both helpful and knowledgeable.  For some reason, he just does not really say the things I think he needs to say.  He has a PhD in molecular biology and has many PhDs among his technical staff. He told me that he doubts other nutraceutical companies have such a quality technical staff, if they indeed even have one at all. 

He also was gracious enough to extend to me a discount as a cancer patient.  If you are not aware of this, the price of cancer drugs, especially for a rare form of cancer, is so high that some insured people cannot even afford the co-pays. I have never ever been offered any type of discounts.

I posted this to our internet group, and I was suspended, as it was seen as advertising.

James Betz made no promises about what his product would do against cancer--this was my idea.  I even posted this to our internet group, over and over again--that I had no idea if it would work against cancer or not.

One group member in particular said it was a complete scam.  I asked this man to write to James Betz.  He did, and James answered every single one of his questions.

Even so this group member said something about if "I wanted to believe something badly enough"..which I do not understand.  I have no idea if this will do anything against my cancer, but even if it were to reduce the amount of the awful drugs we have to take, that would be more than enough. James Betz answered every single one of his questions, and this man even said he would keep in contact with him.
Yet this doubter, one Sean Diggings from Perth, Australia,  never retracted anything he said about this company being a scam.

The product will be tested by Consumer Labs, which tests these kind of things. (This doubter is actually a subscriber to some sort of newsletter put out by Consumer Labs) For BioForte, the amount of trans-resveratrol per pill is about 250 mg, although this has yet to be documented by Consumer Labs.  James Betz just sent me another bottle free so that I can send to a lab of my choice.

Also, James  had suggested a certain mix of Transmax, which is not yet available, and
Bioforte.  I can post the reasons if you want.

I asked him about quercetin, and he said there were some scientists on both side of the issues, but most studies have been done with resveratrol alone.

So this is how I am doing it, at 4 grams per day, Bioforte alone for now.

Also, I had suspected that the antibiotic Biaxin, (clarithromycin) might potentiate resveratrol.  We use this in myeloma to allow us to use steroids at lower doses.  I am not sure why it is not used outside of treatment for myeloma.  Biaxin also potentiates many other drugs.  This means it makes any drug more powerful at a lower dose and makes the other drug persist in your system longer.  James had one of his assistants look into it, and he found that resveratrol and Biaxin are synergistic.  I doubt you will ever find this anywhere else but here.

This information is impossible to find anywhere else.  As a new company, it has had its share of problems.  I can post all of his answers to the person who said he and his company are scammers.

I have been extremely impressed.  The man has a PhD but prefers to be called James.

He was happy to document anything that anyone wanted.  I hope the U.S. government does not stop his company from shipping, as I have read elsewhere on this site that such a product would actually be considered a research drug.  I must email him about this.  I have no idea about this.

He was also quite interested all the reports that I have from the M.D. Anderson clinic about curcumin.  Dr. Aggawal there has spent almost his entire life studying this compound.  I tak 8 to 12 grams per day of this and can tell you it definitely has an anti-inflammatory effect.  I do not necesserily think it does anything against myeloma,although it was in a phase I trial there.  Dr. Aggarwal also has done some research on resveratrol

I would be happy to send anyone all of these reports if you email me, but it will be after a week, as they are very time-consuming to email.  Dr. Aggarwal had made a PDF file about curcumin that is a work of art.

I can also post the email exhanges between James and me, or between Sean Diggins, the doubter who called the company a scam, and James Betz, if anyone would like.

Once again, I have no financial interest in the company.  And I have ordered additional bottles the same way as everyone else, without asking for any type of cancer discount.  I think just his product alone will save me a lot of money over Longevinex.  I was taking 15 pills of Longevinex per day or up to 20.  I had no ida
how little trans-reveratrol that actually is.  But that was over the limit I could even afford.

Alex Maas
a.maas@cox.net
San Diego

[Anthony_Loera]

Alex,

Biotivia has 250 mg trans-resveratrol per capsule.
(from what I have been told by James Betz)

Please be aware that there are companies who provide more trans-resveratrol per capsule, and I suspect better pricing.

Please see price list here where you can compare:
http://www.imminst.o...&f=6&t=15059&s=

thank you
Anthony Loera

[tintinet]

Chilly in here, or just me? (Must be the lowered basal temp. from high dose t-resv. intake! )

I've written fairly extensively to James Betz as well. He does seem quite convincing, but, so far, I have no verifiable independent verification of his statements or those of Biotiva.

When is that ConsumerLabs.com study going to be released, anyway?????

[maxwatt]

Is that the JAmes Betz withthe advanced degree in biochemistry, the ex-navy intelligence officer, or the James Betz convicted of dealing methamphetamine in Kansas in 1998?

[krillin]

Hey krillin, what's the main danger of vitamin D levels too high ? It's called too high of Ca levels. Like Harvard Grad Dr. Weil has said, "Apparently, it's not the amount of calcium you consume but the amount you absorb."

The is why experts now recommend 2,000Iu's of D3 daily, buddy boy!

Do your research big guy. I've done mine. I can back up everything I say on this site. Not with some Hocus Pocus Doctor of no stature. Stop following subjective opinions and follow objective people with references.

Can you prove that vitamin D can prevent you from going into negative calcium balance when consuming only the 150 mg calcium/day you recommend?

By the way, 2000 IU vitamin D is not enough for many people. Getting tested is the only way to know you're covered.

This is why I take Purity Products Perfect Multi Super Greens. In just 4 Vcaps with breakfast daily you get 5,250 ORAC being the antioxidant equavalent to 15 serving of fruits and veggies. Plus, has a full 2000IU's of D3 with no added fe, cu, or mn which all three metals are harmful in excess and rare for a deficiency.

That product is awful. Not enough gamma tocopherol to prevent the alpha from displacing it. Niacinamide instead of inositol hexanicotinate. Obsolete selenium. Most of the nutrients have cosmetic doses. Informed people use AOR's Ortho-Core or Multi-Basics 3.

[Anthony_Loera]

Holy Smokes... Mirian

Thats alot of different types of info. Anyway you can organize this better? Maybe by vitamin/supplement, date, reference, and general reference text... ??

It would be interesting to see in a database or excel view, and maybe helpfull for people as well.

Anthony

[proteomist]

No matter the potential information content, nobody is ever going to read through that.

[lucid]

Informed people? Unlike you, I back up my words with references:
...
I advise supplement companies and you do what ?
...
You're informed, rookie ????????????????. Don't insult informed people:

Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win, you are still retarded.

Why not try and be civil?

*Edit* Btw just did read through it, good stuff. Probably would be best if split into 15 ish different threads. heh.

Edited by lucid, 11 June 2007 - 11:35 PM.

[krillin]

[quote]Informed people? Unlike you, I back up my words with references:[/quote]

False. I read through your steaming pile of verbiage and could not find anything to back up your claim that men should consume a maximum of 150 mg calcium per day. You also did not provide a justification for taking a product with such horribly imbalanced tocopherols.

[quote]
BTW, niacinamide is the most active form of B3 in the blood the form you mention are for people with cholesterol problems. Ideal, total cholesterol should be 180 to 199!:[/quote]

Niacinamide counteracts the beneficial effects of resveratrol, as anyone who has been paying attention here knows.

J Biol Chem. 2002 Nov 22;277(47):45099-107. Epub 2002 Sep 23.
Inhibition of silencing and accelerated aging by nicotinamide, a putative negative regulator of yeast sir2 and human SIRT1.
Bitterman KJ, Anderson RM, Cohen HY, Latorre-Esteves M, Sinclair DA.

Department of Pathology, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts 02115, USA.

The Saccharomyces cerevisiae Sir2 protein is an NAD(+)-dependent histone deacetylase that plays a critical role in transcriptional silencing, genome stability, and longevity. A human homologue of Sir2, SIRT1, regulates the activity of the p53 tumor suppressor and inhibits apoptosis. The Sir2 deacetylation reaction generates two products: O-acetyl-ADP-ribose and nicotinamide, a precursor of nicotinic acid and a form of niacin/vitamin B(3). We show here that nicotinamide strongly inhibits yeast silencing, increases rDNA recombination, and shortens replicative life span to that of a sir2 mutant. Nicotinamide abolishes silencing and leads to an eventual delocalization of Sir2 even in G(1)-arrested cells, demonstrating that silent heterochromatin requires continual Sir2 activity. We show that physiological concentrations of nicotinamide noncompetitively inhibit both Sir2 and SIRT1 in vitro. The degree of inhibition by nicotinamide (IC(50) < 50 microm) is equal to or better than the most effective known synthetic inhibitors of this class of proteins. We propose a model whereby nicotinamide inhibits deacetylation by binding to a conserved pocket adjacent to NAD(+), thereby blocking NAD(+) hydrolysis. We discuss the possibility that nicotinamide is a physiologically relevant regulator of Sir2 enzymes.

PMID: 12297502

[quote]
I advise supplement companies[/quote]

That's not something to be bragging about. The vast majority are giving their multivitamin customers an increased risk of cancer by depleting their gamma tocopherol levels. To say nothing of other stupid formulation mistakes.

[quote]
Your simply assuming form of selenium found in Broccoli is better but that is your opinion not based on studies.[/quote]

False. SeMC is the most effective selenium compound.

Nutr Cancer. 2001;40(1):12-7.
Se-methylselenocysteine: a new compound for chemoprevention of breast cancer.
Medina D, Thompson H, Ganther H, Ip C.

Department of Molecular and Cellular Biology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, TX 77030, USA. dmedina@bcm.tmc.edu

Selenium compounds have attracted renewed interest as chemopreventive agents for human cancer on the basis of the pioneering intervention study by Clark and co-workers. The rodent mammary gland has been used extensively as a model for examining the chemopreventive activities of inorganic and organic selenium compounds. This review summarizes the rationale and results for use of a new organic selenium compound, Se-methylselenocysteine, which exhibits greater efficacy as a chemopreventive agent than several previously used selenium compounds in experimental models of breast cancer and has potential for use in human populations.

PMID: 11799917

http://breast-cancer...ontent/7/5/R699

"In the mammary tumor model, MSC is more efficacious than the most extensively studied selenoamino acids in animal models."

http://jn.nutrition....ull/128/11/1845

"We found that both selenobetaine and Se-methylselenocysteine were more efficacious than either selenite or selenomethionine in cancer chemoprevention in the range of 1-3 ppm Se"

[quote]Multi-Basics 3 has vanadium, manganese, and copper all potentially harmful.[/quote]

Not at the small doses provided.

[quote]It's short on vitamin D3 at 1,000IU should be 2,000IU's. Unless, a baby under 12 months then 1,000IU's of D3 daily:[/quote]

That depends on the individual. 1000 IU is enough to get me well into LEF's desired range. But 2000 IU is not enough for many people. Since so many people will need more than 2000 IU and be taking extra D anyway, why force those who need just 1000 IU to take unnecessary D?

[quote]Doesn't have the most active of B12 Methylcobalamin which lowers plasma homocysteine levels by encouraging methylation like folate and resveratrol does. Regular B12 being cyanocobalmin has trace amounts of cyanide that the government considers safe like fluoride and mercury dental fillings. But, only fools believe it![/quote]

Methylcobalamin should be taken sublingually to avoid the liver converting it into a different form.

The body is perfectly capable of handling the traces of cyanide found in B12 supplements. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

[quote]
Your multi also has the wrong form of vitamin K2 (MK-4) which should be the most active and benefical form MK-7 from Natto at 45mcg to 100mcg daily.[/quote]

Yet another falsehood. MK-7 is a bacterial form of K2 while MK-4 is what mammals make for themselves. Your body will try to convert MK-7 to MK-4, so save it the trouble. And since you seem vulnerable to peer pressure, I'll add that MK-4 is what the Japanese use clinically.

J Bone Miner Metab. 1999;17(1):23-9.
Effect of vitamin K2 (menaquinone-7) in fermented soybean (natto) on bone loss in ovariectomized rats.
Yamaguchi M, Taguchi H, Gao YH, Igarashi A, Tsukamoto Y.

Laboratory of Endocrinology and Molecular Metabolism, Graduate School of Nutritional Sciences, University of Shizuoka, Japan.

The effect of dietary vitamin K2 (menaquinone-7) on bone loss in ovariectomized (OVX) rats was investigated. OVX rats were freely given experimental diets containing menaquinone-4 (MK-4; 12mg/100g diet) or menaquinone-7 (MK-7; 18.1mg/100g diet) for 24 days; MK-4 and MK-7 were equal in molar concentrations. This feeding caused a remarkable increase of MK-4 and MK-7 concentrations in the serum and femur of OVX rats. OVX-induced decrease in the femoral dry weight and femoral calcium content was prevented by the feeding of dietary MK-4 or NK-7. In separate experiments, OVX rats were freely given experimental diets containing the fermented soybean (natto; including 9.4 microg MK-7/100g diet) without or with added MK-7 (37.6 microg/100g diet) for 77 days. Feeding produced a significant elevation of MK-4 and MK-7 concentrations in the serum of OVX rats. In this case, a significant increase in the femoral MK-4 content was observed but MK-7 was not detected in the femoral tissues. OVX-induced decreases in the femoral dry weight and femoral calcium content were significantly prevented by the feeding of diets containing natto with MK-7 added (37.6 microg/100g diets). This study demonstrates that the intake of dietary MK-7 has a preventive effect on bone loss caused by OVX. This effect may be partly caused by MK-4, which is formed by degradation of MK-7.

PMID: 10084398

Nippon Rinsho. 2006 Sep;64(9):1639-43.
[Active vitamin D and vitamin K as therapeutic agents for osteoporosis]
[Article in Japanese]
Katagiri H.
Department of Orthopaedic Surgery, Medicine of Sensory and Motor Organs, Faculty of Medicine, Tottori University.

Active vitamin D has been most widely used in Japan for the treatment of osteoporosis. However, clinical evidence for its efficacy as an anti-osteoporotic drug is scarce in terms of fracture prevention. Recent reports suggest that active vitamin D may prevent fracture not only through enhancement of intestinal calcium absorption but also by improving bone quality and/or strength independently of bone mass and by improving neuromuscular function to reduce the number of fall. Low serum concentrations of vitamin K have been reported in patients with osteoporosis, and serum osteocalcin appears to be undercarboxylated in these individuals, a process dependent on vitamin K. Undercarboxylated osteocalcin is also a significant risk for hip fracture. Clinical studies in Japan suggest that menatetrenone (vitamin K2) reduces skeletal losses and, in a small randomized clinical trial, it reduced the rate of vertebral fractures. Menatetrenone is currently used in Japan, the Republic of Korea and Thailand.

PMID: 16972672

[quote]Only has 1.8mg of boron should have 3mg[/quote]

It puts you at above average consumption, without even counting what you're getting from food. Why do we need an extra 1.2 mg?

[quote]Has the potentially harmful Chromium picolinate form rather than the safe life entending niacin bound ChromeMate.[/quote]

Picolinate is only harmful to cells in petri dishes. Under physiological conditions no harm has been found.

[quote]
Your multi has No ORAC rating. Americans are way low on optimal antioxidant consumption. FDA now recommends as of 2005 that Americans intake 7000 ORAC daily. The antioxidant equal to about 12 full fruit servings daily.[/quote]

Phytochemicals are best taken separately, so you can make your own choices. In multis they are usually present in small doses and are mere label padding, as in your product. For instance, the 10 mg green tea extract is an insult. The only redeeming feature is that the small dose won't interfere with mineral absorption.

[quote]Has only 11mg of zinc should be a full 15mg,[/quote]

http://books.nap.edu...=10026&page=442

"The Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for adults is 8 mg/day for women and 11 mg/day for men."

[quote]9. Have 99mg of Potassium Glycinate.[/quote]

Are you a homeopath?

[quote]IDEALLY, A MULTIVITAMIN WOULD HAVE 1,000MCG OF ACTUAL FOLATE NOT FOLIC ACID[/quote]

Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Feb;85(2):465-73.
Bioavailability of food folates is 80% of that of folic acid.
Winkels RM, Brouwer IA, Siebelink E, Katan MB, Verhoef P.
Wageningen Centre for Food Sciences, Wageningen, Netherlands. renate.winkels@wur.nl

BACKGROUND: The bioavailability of natural food folates is lower than that of synthetic folic acid, but no agreement exists as to the extent of the difference. OBJECTIVE: In a 4-wk dietary intervention study, we determined the aggregate bioavailability of food folates from fruit, vegetables, and liver relative to that of folic acid. DESIGN: Seventy-two healthy adults were randomly divided into 4 treatment groups. Group A (n = 29) received a high-folate diet with 369 mug food folate/d and a placebo capsule; groups B, C, and D (n = 14 or 15) received a low-folate diet with 73 microg food folate/d and folic acid capsules. These capsules contained 92 microg folic acid/d for group B, 191 microg for group C, and 289 microg for group D. In addition, all 72 subjects daily ingested a capsule with 58 microg [(13)C(11)]-labeled folic acid. We measured the percentage of [(13)C(11)]-labeled folate in plasma folate at the end of the intervention and ascertained the changes in serum folate concentrations over the 4 wk of the intervention. RESULTS: Bioavailability of food folate relative to that of folic acid was 78% (95% CI: 48%, 108%) according to [(13)C(11)]-labeled folate and 85% (52%, 118%) according to changes in serum folate concentrations. CONCLUSIONS: The aggregate bioavailability of folates from fruit, vegetables, and liver is approximately 80% of that of folic acid. The consumption of a diet rich in food folate can improve the folate status of a population more efficiently than is generally assumed.

PMID: 17284745

[Shepard]

Krillin, you're a better man than me. I thought about it but couldn't bring myself to read through all that.

[health_nutty]

Mirian,

The good:
1) You definitely have some good information.
2) You have obviously done a lot of reading.

The bad:
1) You seem closed minded. As much as you have to share, we could all learn a lot from each other.
2) Some of your references are not authoritative (articles from Men's health, prevention magazine, and consumer reports, Earl Mindell's Vitamin Bible).

[mirian]

MK-4 is a very poor form of vitamin K, even vitamin K1 scores better!

The following link clearly proves how MK-7 is the most superior form of vitamin K:

http://www.plthomas.com/menaq7.htm

[mirian]

Optic nerve disease due to toxic effects of tobacco or alcohol, methylcobalamin, but not cyanocobalamin, resolves the problem. [Seminars in Ophthalmology 10: 195-202, 1995]

[mirian]

Why do you need 3mg of Boron. You should re-read what I wrote:

3MG OF BORON DAILY PREVENTS LOSS OF CALCIUM AND BONE DEMINERALIZATION.[FASEB JOURNAL 1:394,1987]

With your multivitamin you do need to load up on the calcium, lol.

[mirian]

11mg of zinc isn't enough again 15mg of zinc is more ideal:

"Men who took a 15mg zinc supplement when tested on a stationary bike, those with the extra zinc could go harder longer and had lower heart rates and greater max VO2 rates."[Men’s Health Magazine, Oct. 2005, p. 60]

[maxwatt]

Well, niacinamide is known to be a sirt1 antagonist. (sirtuin inhibitor)
look HERE

Some highlights

Try this PubMed search string:

(sirtuins OR sir2 OR sirt1) AND (niacinamide[tw] OR nicotinamide[tw])

See especially this report:

Anderson RM, Bitterman KJ, Wood JG, Medvedik O, Sinclair DA. Nicotinamide and PNC1 govern lifespan extension by calorie restriction in
Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Nature. 2003 May 8;423(6936):181-5.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12736687

inositol hexanicotinate might be a better source.

FWIW, I don't consider Dr. Weil to be the most authoritative source.