130 replies to this topic

[quasi13]

Again, quite unlikely (not impossible). Anecdotes are certainly worthwhile to some degree, because we're not animals, but I don't think your blaming CR for depression can be backed up by science. I think it might be a case of confirmation bias & post hoc ergo propter hoc. Or you simply had bad luck (statistics and all that, not everyone lives under the bell curve...)

http://www.imminst.o...p;hl=happy mice

As I said in my post, I'm not fully pinning it on CR and it could be a coincidence. I went into CR because of the science behind it, but I decided to stop because I was concerned it was involved in the problem. If it was involved, that would have defeated some of the purpose of CR. To be clear, I didn't post any of that to be a warning to anyone. I learned a lot about health and nutrition prior to and while on CR. I plan on keeping my calories generally lower than pre CR by eating slightly smaller portions rather than counting them. I'll simply focus on maintaining a steady, healthy body composition.

The loss of libido came first actually, but it was a gradual loss. If it was CR related, I'd say that's the biggest drawback. It probably wouldn't be an issue if I was a bachelor.

I disagree that it's unlikely that there could be a correlation, but I agree that there isn't much saying CRON and depression are correlated. (Emphasis on the "ON", of course. Without optimal nutrition, I would imagine CR and depression are correlated. The thread you linked has some discussion of that.) I'd like to see a long term study done to see how CRON affects the occurrence of mental illness, especially depression, in those with a history of it. At this point, I haven't seen any literature that addresses that directly so I wouldn't say "unlikely."

[kismet]

The loss of libido came first actually, but it was a gradual loss. If it was CR related, I'd say that's the biggest drawback. It probably wouldn't be an issue if I was a bachelor.

That's an unfortunate and more common side-effect of CR I believe.

At this point, I haven't seen any literature that addresses that directly so I wouldn't say "unlikely."

Yeah, so far it's just a likely hypothesis based on the current animal data and some of the more convincing mechanistical considerations (incl. anorexia). Based on the preliminary data (or my limited understanding thereof), though, I'm saying "unlikely" as a general rule (but there's no rule without an exception).

Edited by kismet, 19 July 2009 - 12:19 AM.

[TheFountain]

Plus of course how long we live is in our DNA, no one is arguing that and it's a pretty accepted reality now. Scientists are looking for ways to repair damages on the molecular level to DNA and everything related to it.

I think what he was implying in his statement was that each individual has an encoded DNA death which differs from the next persons encoded DNA death. I think that is mystical mumbo jumbo personally. Not that I am against spirituality, but I don't think spirit (if spirit exists) would dictate DNA life-span. I don't think spirit could be that specific a thing that it would govern out lives in that specific a manner.

[brokenportal]

Me, and Mind, and Luigi Fontana were interviewed recently, and the reporter asked me this.

I told him I support things like this, and practice it, and head in that direction habit wise, but that Im not so focused on it because indefinite life extension needs all of our focus right now.

This is a battle for indefinite life extension and its like choosing between jumping in to a fighter jet and heading to the front lines, and taking your chances there to try to help win the war, or to focus on back yard bunkers and gas masks.
 jet_fighter2.jpg   783.06KB   19 downloads Vs.  bunker_gas_mask.jpg   76.83KB   19 downloads

The one can allow us to win this war and live on indefinitely, and the other one will likely just allow us to live for a few extra years until the fall out decimates every last one.

I appreciate the value of a good gas mask though and so my advice to all is to grab the gas masks, and head for the air strips.
 jet_fighter_mask.jpg   29.62KB   15 downloads

[crzar]

On my last contract work assignment I watched people and what they ate. Mostly I saw bad eating habits.
I watched the same people eat for 1 month. What I mostly saw were people grabbing what they could with
little consideration to what it was they were consuming. I, on the other hand consumed mostly the very same thing
daily. My lunch was a salad but it was a big salad, Red Pepper, Broc, Spinach, Sprouts, Tomato, Nuts, Extra Virgin
Olive Oil / Vinegar. There were a couple of people who seem to become angry at what I ate and even more concerned
that a male would take the time to prepare veggies. I did not care what they said at all. I would simply drop my fork
and begin eating the salad with both hands like some crazed veggie eater. They would walk. One time I stuck my head into
my bowl and began to feed like a bull. As they walked away in disgust they could hear me snort and munch. People who eat crappy should not talk crap.

Edited by crzar, 27 November 2009 - 12:21 AM.

[Veovis]

I am currently on CR and have been practicing it since early 2000, but I'll play the devil's advocate.

Here are some reasons I could see someone not wanting to practice CR.
1) You have to monitor your vitamin and mineral intake much more carefully. That requires a lot of planning and of course perseverence to follow the plan every day. Other people don't want to think about food That much.
2) A lot of social activities revolve around food and a lot of people don't want to have to explain to people that they can only eat 34 grams of this chicken or 72 grams of this asparagus.
3) Being ultra-skinny is generally not considered attractive. This is probably the main deterrent.
4) Human beings are not lab rats, or lab monkeys. When they are calorie restricted they make compensating measures in their behaivor that may be harmful in themselves. Early on in CR I would drink a lot of diet soda (like 10/day), much more than I ever did prior to CR.
5) Some are no doubt concerned about osteopenia.
6) Maybe not entirely rational, but some people like the idea of having a reasonable amount of muscle to defend themselves with should the need arise.
7) The time value of happiness. Certain happiness that you can grasp in the near future (a feeling of a full stomach, looking good, etc) is worth more than dubious happiness in the distant future. You could practice CR for 20 years and then find out you have ALS, or develop cancer (even though CR reduces your risk the risk is still there), or get pnemonia, or get hit by a bus and die.

I think that's enough for now.

[niner]

There were a couple of people who seem to become angry at what I ate and even more concerned
that a male would take the time to prepare veggies.

I'm sorry that you have to work with morons. That seems to be the nature of work, though...

[crzar]

There were a couple of people who seem to become angry at what I ate and even more concerned
that a male would take the time to prepare veggies.

I'm sorry that you have to work with morons. That seems to be the nature of work, though...

Yea but you know you could see their bad eating faces pondering the correct eating action. Every day I would stick to it, eating right. I could see them thinking about eating choices. It is said, to practice CR you first ease into it. First you have to take that step. It is almost like one having to come to grips with something personal. There might be a defining moment. Maybe most just do not have that defining moment. Just to mention, I do notice in the work place less and less people smoking. That is a big step. I think it is even a bigger step to define correct eating and follow through with it. As mentioned CR can in the beginning be a lot of work after a while it will become a lifestyle. I can see more and more future folks signing on to a CR lifestyle. Truthfully any better eating habits are a major improvement and I personally feel will make a longer more better feeling life.

Emotions have a lot to do with eating. To practice CR one may need to take the emotions our of daily eating process. Nothing personal world I am just getting my nutrition.

[thinkdifferent]

Being on CR is surely the best bet for a long life, but we are not sure of the magnitude of the benefits. Humans are not rat on a lab, and your choice is not CR versus ad libitum eating and obesity, but CR versus sensible eating, exercising and maintaining a low body weight.
If a "healthy" lifestyle can make you to 90 how many extra years CR is worth?

On the other hand CR has a lot of proven disadvantages that affect quality of life NOW:

1) you have to plan all your meals, counting all your calories.
Quite a work, but I think I can get used to eat
2) you have basically to give most of the pleasure of eating
Not a big problem for me
3) Food is deeply connected with many social events and being on CR can affect your social life
I think I can find a way to solve this
4) Everybody will think I'm crazy, they'll tell me to eat more, that I look sick and bla bla bla
Quite a problem, but I'm not used to worry so much about wath others think
5) I'm already very skinny (62 kg being 180 cm tall) and losing weight will really give me an ugly aspect. It's very unlikely girls will find me sexy
This is a BIG problem for me, and one I can't overcome
6) Decreasing sex drive
VERY BIG problem. I'm 27 now and I like being horny everyday. Losing that seems a big price to pay to me
7) Being so skinny and frail can actually shorten your life on some circumstances (if you get sick or seriously injuried )

These are the reasons I'm not on a CR diet

[eason]

I've been practicing semi-CR. (Yes, semi-CR works to a lesser degree. Any bit of calorie restriction does.)

I've kept all my muscle mass (30-40 lbs. worth), sex drive is the same, etc.

Drawbacks: Not eating more food (who cares? not addicted to it), not eating junk at social events (who cares? why do I have to do what everybody else is - they like me for the fact that I'm not a follower), etc., etc., etc.

I feel great. Semi-CR is a win-win for me. I'm not getting the full benefits of CR, but I'm not ready for that right now. No drawbacks.

Edited by eason, 21 March 2010 - 06:20 AM.

[rawmatt]

Hi all Rawmatt here. Caloric Restriction is a hard practice for people too follow. Remember that most people only even change their diet if they want to loose weight or are sick. I believe it works and practice extreme caloric restriction myself and even go months were no more than 500 calories a day pass my lips. I even have a youtube video taking more about it and plan on making an entire DVD because of the lame limited time for youtube videos are 10 minutes. Plus a DVD will let me have a beginner and advanced section for those people who want very very technical info and the modern day truck driver who wants the beginner stuff.