121 replies to this topic

[Live Forever]

Does anyone have any thoughts on if it would be better to exercise on the eating days or the fasting days? I am seriously thinking of giving this thing a go.

[resveratrol]

Interesting, but it seems a bit pointless.  I've found it extremely easy to fast for a full day at a time, particularly once you've done it once or twice and gotten past the psychological barrier and realized it's well within your capabilities.

Did you do an every other day approach?

The term "intermittent fasting" seems like a bit of a misnomer for an every other day approach. To me, intermittent means coming and going at odd intervals, not something that is a continuous pattern like every other day is. A better name would be "alternating fasting" or "every other day fasting" or something like that. (of course, this is probably just another example of me splitting hairs, haha)

Yes, I started working my way up to 3-day fasts, but I came to the realization that for weight loss, I got diminishing returns over time (I'd lose 4 pounds the first day, then 2, and then 1). So I've switched to fasting on Thursdays and Saturdays, which is working great; I'm planning to switch to 1 day a week (or just stick with a CR-like diet and fast on an as-needed basis) once I meet my weight goal.

I wasn't aware of the difference between intermittent fasting and alternate-day fasting. I'm not really seeing the benefits of randomizing it. Going 1 day without eating is already amazingly easy.

[resveratrol]

Does anyone have any thoughts on if it would be better to exercise on the eating days or the fasting days? I am seriously thinking of giving this thing a go.

Definitely exercise on the eating days. Particularly after the fasting rather than before it.

Exercise is going to make you hungry, and you don't want that to get in the way of your fasting day.

IMO the best way to do it is to plan your fast to be a day or two before you exercise. I start fasting Thursdays so I can work out on the weekend with no problems.

[Shepard]

Does anyone have any thoughts on if it would be better to exercise on the eating days or the fasting days? I am seriously thinking of giving this thing a go.

Depends on several things: type of exercise, intensity/duration of exercise, purpose of exercise (although, ties in with the first two), individual variations, etc.

[dsbuffa]

Hi... Never posted before, but I have been doing Intermittent Fasting(22/2) since February 2006. I love it... I think I finally have found a way to lose weight and maintain a healthy weight for the rest of my life. I had trouble the first 3 months with dizziness, but not anymore. I am wired to say the least. I volunteer at the local SPCA and walk dogs for 2 1/2 to 3 hours about 4 times a week. I just can't say enough good things about it.

Dyan

[Live Forever]

Hi...  Never posted before, but I have been doing Intermittent Fasting(22/2) since February 2006.  I love it... I think I finally have found a way to lose weight and maintain a healthy weight for the rest of my life.  I had trouble the first 3 months with dizziness, but not anymore.  I am wired to say the least.  I volunteer at the local SPCA and walk dogs for 2 1/2 to 3 hours about 4 times a week.  I just can't say enough good things about it.

Dyan

What does 22/2 mean? Does that mean you fast for 2 days every 22 or something?

[Shepard]

22 hours fasting, 2 hours eating I would imagine.

[Live Forever]

22 hours fasting, 2 hours eating I would imagine.

Oh, like one really huge meal a day (or a couple, or however much you can fit in 2 hours)? That seems like it would be less beneficial than 1 day on, 1 day off, 1 day on, etc., but I don't know maybe it would work better. Someone needs to just conduct a huge study with every different diet plan they can think of that falls under the intermittent fasting umbrella tested on mice to determine which is best.

[Shepard]

I generally think the 24/24 as Dr. Eades describes above is ideal from a long-term health standpoint if you want something regimented and like this style of eating.

I find benefit in being able to eat daily, I like the periodic fasted exercise session, and while you eat well, it isn't so much food in a short period of time that it causes discomfort.

[Live Forever]

http://www.pubmedcen...gi?artid=156352

intermittent fasting resulted in beneficial effects that met or exceeded those of caloric restriction including reduced serum glucose and insulin levels and increased resistance of neurons in the brain to excitotoxic stress. Intermittent fasting therefore has beneficial effects on glucose regulation and neuronal resistance to injury in these mice that are independent of caloric intake.

I am assuming this one has probably been posted before somewhere, but I just found it and read it.

Also saw this one: http://jap.physiolog.../full/99/6/2128
Which has lots of detail and charts and stuff.

[resveratrol]

22 hours fasting, 2 hours eating I would imagine.

Oh, like one really huge meal a day (or a couple, or however much you can fit in 2 hours)? That seems like it would be less beneficial than 1 day on, 1 day off, 1 day on, etc., but I don't know maybe it would work better.

I'm finding it's really difficult to eat a lot after fasting. I take one day off of food, and then try to eat a big breakfast and my body just won't let me. You'd think I would be really hungry after all that, but nope.

[Live Forever]

What do you do on your fast days, resveratrol? Water only, or like juice and stuff?

[william7]

Does anyone have any thoughts on if it would be better to exercise on the eating days or the fasting days? I am seriously thinking of giving this thing a go.

Glad to hear you're seriously interested in fasting. Might take the rough edges off you and soften your heart a little bit if you know what I mean. Clean up your brain cells too.

If you start fasting regularly, you think you'll design an immortal faster picture as a signature?

[resveratrol]

What do you do on your fast days, resveratrol? Water only, or like juice and stuff?

Water, green tea (especially the blueberry stuff, which I'm hopelessly addicted to), and the diet (zero-calorie) version of Hansen's green tea soda. The Hansen's soda in particular seems to do a great job of giving me a feeling of fullness as it's very fizzy, though of course it can lead to bloating if you drink too many.

[dsbuffa]

What does 22/2 mean? Does that mean you fast for 2 days every 22 or something?

I fast for 22 hours and feed for 2 hours everyday.

Dyan

Edit by Live Forever: Fixed quote.

Edited by Live Forever, 22 October 2007 - 05:13 PM.

[Live Forever]

Does anyone have any thoughts on if it would be better to exercise on the eating days or the fasting days? I am seriously thinking of giving this thing a go.

Glad to hear you're seriously interested in fasting. Might take the rough edges off you and soften your heart a little bit if you know what I mean. Clean up your brain cells too.

I hope it doesn't literally "soften" my heart, as that sounds like a condition that would lead to torn heart chambers and stuff. ) I am sure my brain cells could use a good scrubbing, but I am not sure how much fasting contributes to that or not. ) As far as my "rough edges", I suppose you mean my rough edges towards religion in general? I find it highly unlikely those will go away because of IF, but we'll see I suppose. [tung]

If you start fasting regularly, you think you'll design an immortal faster picture as a signature?

"Immortal faster"? You mean "intermittent fasting"? Anything is possible; If you would like me to design one for you, make a request in the custom signature pictures thread, and I will be happy to make one for you. [thumb]

[Live Forever]

What do you do on your fast days, resveratrol? Water only, or like juice and stuff?

Water, green tea (especially the blueberry stuff, which I'm hopelessly addicted to), and the diet (zero-calorie) version of Hansen's green tea soda. The Hansen's soda in particular seems to do a great job of giving me a feeling of fullness as it's very fizzy, though of course it can lead to bloating if you drink too many.

Aaah, ok. I am guessing the caffeine from the drinks help with the hunger.

[resveratrol]

Aaah, ok. I am guessing the caffeine from the drinks help with the hunger.

Not sure if it's what's taking the edge off; I suspect it's something else in the green tea (perhaps the L-theanine). In any event, the caffeine definitely helps burn a few more calories.

[Live Forever]

Aaah, ok. I am guessing the caffeine from the drinks help with the hunger.

Not sure if it's what's taking the edge off; I suspect it's something else in the green tea (perhaps the L-theanine). In any event, the caffeine definitely helps burn a few more calories.

Yeah, I know most of those diet pills and things they sell are pretty much just caffeine. (Not that I would ever want to use those)

[stayin_alive]

Anyone care to chime in on the use of tyrosine, ephedrine and caffeine during the fast period? (25 mg ephedrine total for the fast day, none otherwise.)

The base question is..since some protein is being had, would that small amount change IF to simply CR? I understand there are differences between the two.

[Shepard]

Anyone care to chime in on the use of tyrosine, ephedrine and caffeine during the fast period? (25 mg ephedrine total for the fast day, none otherwise.)

I don't see it being necessary for any reason and perhaps counterproductive if you're going for a long-term approach. If you're trying to use it to counter hunger, shorten your fasting period and work up gradually.

The base question is..since some protein is being had, would that small amount change IF to simply CR? I understand there are differences between the two.

If someone is consuming protein during the fasting period, they aren't fasting.

[william7]

I am sure my brain cells could use a good scrubbing, but I am not sure how much fasting contributes to that or not.

Checkout page 3 of Fasting: The Ultimate Diet where it says:

Dr. Yuri Nikolayev, director of the fasting unit of the Moscow Psychiatric Institute, told me when I con­sulted with him in Moscow that fasts are essential for urban populations "constantly exposed to poisonous car exhausts, factory fumes, and other toxic air pol­lutants."
As a doctor who specializes in treating the mentally ill, I have used fasting as an effective measure in allevi­ating the symptoms of schizophrenia, which my dis­tinguished colleague Dr. Humphry Osmond calls "the disease of the future." Many patients once given up for hopeless go on "miraculously"—after a period of fast­ing and the adoption of new dietary regimens—to live normal lives.

http://books.google....DmTOceQ#PPA3,M1

You would think that fasting does do something at the brain cell level if it can clean out toxic pollutants and alleviate symptoms of schizophrenia. It would sure be interesting to hear from somebody that's up this type of stuff from a medical point of view.

[william7]

Nevertheless, intermittent fasting resulted in beneficial effects that met or exceeded those of caloric restriction including reduced serum glucose and insulin levels and increased resistance of neurons in the brain to excitotoxic stress.

http://www.pubmedcen...gi?artid=156352

Anybody know what this is all about?

[Shepard]

http://www.pubmedcen...gi?artid=156352

Anybody know what this is all about?

Probably atleast partially due to increases in neuronal AMPk.

[Shepard]

You would think that fasting does do something at the brain cell level if it can clean out toxic pollutants and alleviate symptoms of schizophrenia. It would sure be interesting to hear from somebody that's up this type of stuff from a medical point of view.

Depends on what you mean. One theory would be that there is some modulation of autophagy.

[resveratrol]

You would think that fasting does do something at the brain cell level if it can clean out toxic pollutants and alleviate symptoms of schizophrenia. It would sure be interesting to hear from somebody that's up this type of stuff from a medical point of view.

Depends on what you mean. One theory would be that there is some modulation of autophagy.

There was a link somewhere (can't seem to find it any more) that pointed to an article explaining that fasting increases brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) while ordinary caloric restriction does not. BDNF stimulates the growth and survival of nerve cells. My money's on that being the reason for the improvements.

[william7]

That's very interesting resveratrol. Couldn't a guy say fasting has a nootropic effect?

[Shepard]

I'd lump the BDNF effects up there with the neuroprotective effects before the "cleaning out of toxic pollutants". But, BDNF does have a role in plasticity, so I don't know. But there are several things going on that probably all intertwine.

Anyway, I don't know where you read that CR didn't increase BDNF. It has been shown to increase it, and fasting has actually been shown to increase BDNF in some areas of the brain and lower expression in others (VMN).

[Shepard]

Couldn't a guy say fasting has a nootropic effect?

Look into the ghrelin-memory connection that has come around recently.

[william7]

Couldn't a guy say fasting has a nootropic effect?

Look into the ghrelin-memory connection that has come around recently.

All I could find on Ghrelin so far has to do with obesity research. I'll keep looking though. It sounds very interesting. I hope more medical research on fasting is done in the future. What University do you think does the most fasting research?