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Fredriks skincare regime


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#1 Fredrik

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 03:59 PM


Hi!

I´m 31 years old and I´ve been interested in the science of beauty since the age of 16. I started using sunscreen daily at 17 and a prescription retinoid a few years later.

The rationale of my regime is to prevent new skin damage and help repair the daily damage done by UV-radiation, pollution and intrinsic ("chronological") aging.

I´ve divided my regime into three categories: CLEANSE, PROTECT & PREVENT (sunscreen + antioxidant cocktail) and PREVENT & REPAIR (prescription retinoid).


CLEANSE

Tip: try to find a cleanser with tocopherol (l- or dl doesn´t matter) as this lipophilic antioxidant has been shown to be deposited on skin while cleansing.

The best cleanser I´ve ever used is the drugstore brand ALPHA HYDROX foaming facewash ($6.99). Oil free, fragrance free, soft texture, gentle and leaves no residue. It has gotten rave reviews on other skincare messageboards because it´s excellent in conjunction with more aggressive actives like acids and retinoids.
Sadly I can´t afford to have it sent to me from USA because of shipping and taxes. Grrr...someone please send it to me and I ´ll paypal you and be your personal skincare guru forever! [lol]

Water, Glycerin, Decyl Polyglucose, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, PEG 200 Hydrogenated Glyceryl Palmate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, PEG 7 Glyceryl Cocoate, Citric Acid, Propylene Glycol, Diazolidinyl Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, PEG 3 Distearate, Ammonium Hydroxide, Sodium Chloride

http://www.drugstore...737&catid=21228

Second best I´ve tried is Topix Resurfix Ultra Gentle Cleanser

Purified Water, PEG-80 Sorbitan Laurate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Trideceth Sulfate, Lauroamphodiacetate, Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine, Sodium Laureth-13 Carboxylate, Papain, Green Tea Extract, dl- Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Polysorbate-20, Quaternium-15, Benzyl Alcohol, Citric Acid.

http://www.skinstore...954&prodID=6194

Currently using The Body Shop Aloe vera gentle facewash which is the most expensive of the three and it is ok, but I think I´ll have to get my hands on one of the above somehow.

Water, Aloe Barbadensis Gel, Sodium Cocoamphoacetate, Pentylene Glycol, Sorbitol, Disodium Cocoyl Glutamate, Butylene Glycol, Glycerin, Citric Acid, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Coco-Glucoside, Glyceryl Oleate, Sodium Cocoyl Glutamate, Dimethicone Copolyol, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Lecithin, Tocopherol.

http://www.thebodysh...goryId=cat30012

In the summer I like to use a salicylic acid cleanser 2-3 times a week. I like the Johnson & Johson brands (Neutrogena, Clean & clear and Clearasil) and Loreal. If you can, try finding one without menthol as it can be unecessarily irritating. Loreal makes a menthol free one, a foaming mousse wash in their Loreal Paris acne series.



PROTECT and PREVENT

I use two items to protect my skin in the daytime. I start with the least important of the two, a topical antioxidant cocktail, by applying it to my newly washed face:

Skinceuticals C + E ferulic serum

4-6 drops on face, eye area, 4 drops total on the front and back of my neck. 2 drops on each hand.

Tip: wait 20-30 minutes before applying another product on top of it. The ascorbic acid needs to be unionized (low pH) to penetrate.

Water, Ethoxydiglycol, L-ascorbic Acid, Propylene Glycol, Glycerin, Laureth-23, Alpha Tocopherol, Phenoxyethanol, Triethanolamine, Ferulic Acid, Panthenol, Sodium Hyaluronate

http://www.dermadoct.....11A2571661C8}

On top of this antioxidant serum I apply the most important item in any skincare regime, the sunscreen. A broadspectrum, high UVA protection sunscreen will protect you from mottled hyperpigmentation (uneven aged skin tone), loss of firmness, dilated pores, wrinkles and some types of skin cancer. No other product can do all these things except a prescription retinoid (don´t worry, I´ll get to that later).

Face: La Roche-Posay Anthelios XL fluide extreme SPF 50+
http://www.la-roche-...&Darreichung=13

or Bioderma Photoderm Max fluid SPF 50+
http://www.bioderma....oduct//161.html

Eye area: La Roche-Posay Anthelios XL creme SPF 50+
http://www.la-roche-...1&Darreichung=3

Lips: Bioderma MAX stick SPF 50+
http://www.bioderma....oduct//231.html

or La Roche-Posay Antherpos lip cream SPF 50+
http://www.la-roche-...5&Darreichung=2

Neck and top of hands and other exposed areas of my body: La Roche-Posay Anthelios fluide corps SPF 50+
http://www.la-roche-...&Darreichung=13


PREVENT and REPAIR

In the evening, when the sun is down, I wash my face and apply a prescription retinoid that will help my skin repair the damage from daylight that the sunscreen + topical antioxidant cocktail let through.

A retinoid will increase collagen synthesis and prevent skin aging by inhibiting MMPs like collagenase and elastase, enzymes that degrade support proteins in your skin. It will also brighten skin tone, clean out pores, prevent and treat acne and enhance hyaluronic acid synthesis that adds volume and hydration to firm skin. If that is not the description of a miracle cream then what is?

Face and eye area: Tazarotene 0.05% gel (brand name Avage and Tazorac among others). Two days a week I use tretinoin 0.025% gel to be sure to activate all cell receptors (tazarotene is selective).
http://avage.com/

Lips: tretinoin (Retin-A cream) 0.05% (just a small dab)
http://www.aboutrenova.com/

Neck and top of hands: tretinoin (Retin-A gel) 0.025%

Edited by fredrik, 23 October 2007 - 05:47 PM.

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#2 zoolander

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 04:18 PM

Thank you for posting your regime Fredrik. A great read.

I've been thinking about using topical retinoids for a few months now. How do you go about getting a prescription?? I have an "aligned" doctor that is happy to prescribe items for me because he is aware of my education background and trusts my judgement.

Are they expensive?

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#3 Fredrik

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 04:40 PM

Thanx! I get the Retin-A from my doctor because I claim that I still have acne (only costs $13 here in sweden). The tazarotene I get online from india, alldaychemist.com at $3-4 dollars per tube of 15 gram. It´s dirt cheap!

I suggest you order the Tazret cream 0.1% and start using it every third day, a pea size dab 30 minutes after you´ve washed your face. If it´s too irritating you can buffer it (decrease absorption) by applying your moisturizer first. But eventually you should advance to using it on bare skin for maximum effect. The smoothness you will experience in your eye area after 3-6 months is simply staggering. You´ll wonder how you survived without a retinoid in the first place.

I use tretinoin instead of tazarotene twice a week to be sure to activate all the cell receptors, RAR and RXR and the subtypes alpha, beta and gamma. Tazarotene is selective for gamma. So you can combine taz with tret if you like.

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#4 sentinel

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 10:43 AM

Hi Fredrik

Good of you to consolidate that all into one post, very helpful. I've just started with the C+E FS but find it doesn't go very far, any tips onho to apply it, at the moment I'm just pippeting six drops onto chin, cheeks, forehead and by my eyes and rubbing it in with my fingers but the areas don't quite "meet up".

Also mine smells like brine! [huh] It's unusual starting the day smellin glike a hotdog!

sentinel

#5 Fredrik

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 02:09 PM

Hi Fredrik

Good of you to consolidate that all into one post, very helpful. I've just started with the C+E FS but find it doesn't go very far, any tips onho to apply it, at the moment I'm just pippeting six drops onto chin, cheeks, forehead and by my eyes and rubbing it in with my fingers but the areas don't quite "meet up".

Also mine smells like brine! [huh]  It's unusual starting the day smellin glike a hotdog!

sentinel


Thanks! You´re applying it the right way. 4-6 drops should be enough, but there´s no harm in applying more if you don´t feel it´s sufficient. I tend to not want to overdose because it can feel somewhat oily, especially in the summer.

I hope you will proceed to prescription retinoids after you´ve finished with your retinol! It really is 20-64 times more effective (I´ve seen so many different equations, depending on the base formula etc). Just out of curiosity, what products are you trying out now? And if you can, please do keep us updated on how your routine works for you.

The retinoid should give you some perceptible results by three months (it´s best to take a picture now and compare it 3-9 months later).

Yes, sorry I didn´t mention the hot dog smell. The other Skinceuticals vitamin C serums (10, 15 and 20) doesn´t smell as much. But gives 4 times the protection (SPF 4) instead of 8.

#6 sentinel

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 02:38 PM

I hope you will proceed to prescription retinoids after you´ve finished with your retinol! It really is 20-64 times more effective (I´ve seen so many different equations, depending on the base formula etc). Just out of curiosity, what products are you trying out now? And if you can, please do keep us updated on how your routine works for you.


I'm applying most of your regime, to clarify - Retino-A (generic) Tretinoin at night (0.05%) although I'm moving to .1 soon as I've experienced negligable irritation, the C+E in the AM, and a factor 50 sunscreen with Mexoryl XL and SX. It's AMBRE SOLAIRE and 2 warnings; 1 the SPF 50 is pretty oily and my face does stay a bit greasy for most of the day (does yours do this?). The other id that the Clear range, although drying quickly and not creating any oily residue (at 30 SPF) only seems to have one o fthe Mexoryl filters so is not as effective. I will try another brand soon and compare.

After 4 weeks I can't notice any particular improvement however; I'm 37 - more damage to deal with, I've just got back from 9 days in Dubai which was 35+ C in the shade so sun-dodging was harder than here in the UK (15 C !).

This is you regime thread so i won't dilute it. Photos are a good idea though, I'll do that today and post my results in a month or so letting everyone know the results.

sentinel

#7 caston

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 03:10 PM

fredrik: is there anything we can do to reverse damage that has already occured in previous months and years?

Also is Cetaphil any good as a cleanser?

ingredients:

Purified water, cetyl alcohol, propylene, glycol, sodium lauryl sulphate, stearyl alcohol, methyl hydroxybenzoate, propyl hydroxybenzonate, butyl hydroxybenzoate.

#8 Fredrik

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 12:50 AM

It's AMBRE SOLAIRE  and 2 warnings; 1 the SPF 50 is pretty oily and my face does stay a bit greasy for most of the day (does yours do this?).

sentinel


It´s hard to find a sunscreen that is not oily or whitening. I´d love to try the Neutrogena sheer and compare it to my european brands. I can´t use creams on my face, just fluid suncreens or lotions. My Anthelios stays a bit oily, yes. It´s a bitch waiting for the perfectly matte sunscreen.

I´ve ordered Bioderma Photoderma fluid spf 50+. I´ll review it when I´ve tried it. Many people on other beauty forums seem to like the Bioderma Anti-age spf 30. Not oily and not whitening. The biodermas contain both tinosorbs + avobenzone. To much of the Tinosorb M can get whitening.

#9 Fredrik

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 12:59 AM

fredrik: is there anything we can do to reverse damage that has already occured in previous months and years?

Also is Cetaphil any good as a cleanser?

ingredients:

Purified water, cetyl alcohol, propylene, glycol, sodium lauryl sulphate, stearyl alcohol, methyl hydroxybenzoate, propyl hydroxybenzonate, butyl hydroxybenzoate.


Yes! After using sunscreen for a couple of month your skin will actually recover a bit from the daily UV-insult. It will repair itself to some extent. Albert Kligman showed this on rats and it has been repeated on humans later.

Retinoids will also repair a bit of damage. But if you want to get rid of lot´s of photodamage (aging skin) you´ll have to do a mid-depth TCA peel and in some severe cases even carbon-dioxide resurfacing or some other destructive laser modality.

These treatments will cause an injury to your skin. When it heals, old damage will be replaced by new fresh collagen. Beware that scarring and hypo- and hyperpigmentation can result from these treatments.

I´ve never tried cetaphil. We don´t have it in sweden. But reviews online tells me that not everyone likes the texture. It is very mild though and good if skin is irritated. Try it and report back! =)

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#10 caston

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 07:46 AM

Yes! After using sunscreen for a couple of month your skin will actually recover a bit from the daily UV-insult. It will repair itself to some extent. Albert Kligman showed this on rats and it has been repeated on humans later..


Thanks ;) Might be a good idea to try using sunscreen regularly from now on then in a couple of months may even find out if there are some biomarkers of photoageing that can be measured. Isn't there some trick where you can take a photo, that is sensitive to a different spectrum of light than we can't see normally, of someone and it translates it into the photo? From that photo you can then visually get a rough idea of the persons photoageing damage to their skin?

Retinoids will also repair a bit of damage. But if you want to get rid of lot´s of photodamage (aging skin) you´ll have to do a mid-depth TCA peel and in some severe cases even carbon-dioxide resurfacing or some other destructive laser modality.

These treatments will cause an injury to your skin. When it heals, old damage will be replaced by new fresh collagen. Beware that scarring and hypo- and hyperpigmentation can result from these treatments.



I tried to bring up some of these lasers but an intense discussion wasn't really generated about them:

Here are some of the threads:

http://www.imminst.o...53&hl=fraxel&s=
http://www.imminst.o...82&hl=fraxel&s=

I think Fraxel uses erbium but they are bringing out a Co2 laser version next year.

I´ve never tried cetaphil. We don´t have it in sweden. But reviews online tells me that not everyone likes the texture. It is very mild though and good if skin is irritated. Try it and report back! =)

I wouldn't know what to report. Once when I was at a chemist about some acne treatment a girl working there said she used it herself as a cleanser so I bought some. It says it Ph balanced but that's a scary array of different chemicals in the ingredients. I use it occasionally.

#11 zoolander

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 10:09 AM

Fredrik

http://cgi.ebay.com....VQQcmdZViewItem

It's looks as though they will send your favorite cleanser to Europe matey

#12 sentinel

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 10:44 AM

Well, I've just ordered L'Oreal Solar Expertise SPF 40 which had both Mexoryl filters and perhaps won't be quite so oily, got it off ebay at £5.99 for 150ml which is good. I'll let everyone know if it's any better.

Frederik,

You mentioned in your previous threads that you use certain peels every X eg

salicylic or glycolic acid peels monthly (or every second month) to remove past damage


When you want more exfoliation use a salicylic acid cleanser. Neutrogena makes really good ones (Johnson & Johnson has done the best research on salicylic acid and retinols). Or schedule to have a salicylic acid peel 20-30% at a dermatologist. Salicylic acid isn´t as inflammatory as glycolic.


As this is your Regime post could you indicate which OTC ones you use/recommend. I don't think I'm quite ready to launch into a 30%+ TCA just yet but an occaisional, lighter peel seems logical.

Cheers

Sentinel.

#13 Fredrik

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 01:45 PM

Isn't there some trick where you can take a photo, that is sensitive to a different spectrum of light than we can't see normally, of someone and it translates it into the photo? From that photo you can then visually get a rough idea of the persons photoageing damage to their skin?


Yes, woods lamp or woods light. It´s a kind of UV-photograph where you can see sundamage that has yet to surface to clinically visible damage.

Take a look at these UV-photos. Very illuminating =)

http://www.skincarep...hotography.html

I had one of these done by a shiseido salesperson a couple of years ago. She leaned forward and whispered with some trepidation in her voice, "what are you using now, if I may ask?". I guessed I had cleared most of my childhood dyschromia by using a retinoid, salicylic acid and sunscreen. I´d love to take a new one!

#14 Fredrik

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 01:56 PM

Well, I've just ordered L'Oreal Solar Expertise SPF 40 which had both Mexoryl filters and perhaps won't be quite so oily, got it off ebay at £5.99 for 150ml which is good. I'll let everyone know if it's any better.


I would go for Loreals other brand, Anthelios LA Roche-Posay instead. I think the texture is more elegant, but they´re all more or less shiny. Some like the LRP Dermo pediatrics spf 50. But why not try the Neutrogena sheer sunscreen? Sunscreens and cleansers are a trial and error thing. I can´t give a one size fits all recommendation.

The least greasy sunscreens at the moment seem to be Neutrogena sheer, LRP Dermo pediatrics spf 50 or 40 spray, Bioderma Photoderm anti-age spf 30 or fluide 50.

#15 Fredrik

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 02:04 PM

Frederik,

You mentioned in your previous threads that you use certain peels every X eg




As this is your Regime post could you indicate which OTC ones you use/recommend. I don't think I'm quite ready to launch into a 30%+ TCA just yet but an occaisional, lighter peel seems logical.

Cheers

Sentinel.


No I don´t use peels, I just made a list of things you can do to keep your skin exfoliated. Since light peels don´t increase procollagen and repair skin to the same extent as a retinoid I want to maximize the frequency and intensity of retinoid use. When I added 15-20% ascorbic acid to this (pH 3.2) the threshold of what my skin could take was reached.

When I can afford it I will start with IPL every six months, they reach deeper than light peels and can stimulate fibroblasts and clear dyschromia and diffuse redness.

#16 Fredrik

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 02:08 PM

Fredrik

http://cgi.ebay.com....VQQcmdZViewItem

It's looks as though they will send your favorite cleanser to Europe matey


Great! Thank you so much for this link. I recently bought a new bottle of the Body Shops Aloe gentle foaming cleanser but I´ll have to order this one next.

#17 sentinel

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 10:25 AM

No I don´t use peels, I just made a list of things you can do to keep your skin exfoliated.

Oh ok, I mis-understood. I was looking at IPL yesterday, interesting but I'll see how far i can take the current regime for the moment, I ordered some 0.1 tretinoin as my skin is tolerating the .05 well so why take twice as long!

I also took a before picture which looked a bit like -> [lol] just to see my wrinkles and laughter lines at their worst. Eek! [:o]

#18 zoolander

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 12:27 PM

I ordered some 0.1 tretinoin as my skin is tolerating the .05 well so why take twice as long!


I'm notsure if it works that way. I'm sure I read in a clinical study the other day that the effects of a 0.025% and 0.1% were comparable however the 0.1% was alot harder on the skin

#19 sentinel

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Posted 02 November 2007 - 02:41 PM

Thanks Zoo

Interesting.. I'll do a bit of research myself (only fair) and see what I come up with before encouraging others to spend more or endure unnecessary discomfort.

#20 caston

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 01:55 PM

I heard the retinoids are based on vitamin A and actually alter DNA transcription. Are there any adverse side affects to using a retinoid?

I've also it might be possible to come up with some "at home" setups for UVA photography... might be useful not only for viewing damage but for helping eliminate sources of UV in your home or workplace.

http://www.exo.net/~...y/seeingir.html

Edited by caston, 04 November 2007 - 02:11 PM.


#21 Fredrik

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 06:36 PM

I heard the retinoids are based on vitamin A and actually alter DNA transcription. Are there any adverse side affects to using a retinoid?


No. If you use too much too soon you will get red, irritated and flaky. In the long run retinoids decrease actinic keratosis and that in turn lessens the risk of certain skin cancers.

Oral retinoids are given to transplant patients to decrease skin cancer risk.

Maybe you should post question about retinoids in zoolanders retinoid post, then we´ll have a bunch of them gathered there?

#22 zoolander

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 10:54 AM

Fredrik,

I noticed above that you mention using a 0.05% cream of tretinoin on your lips. Medication directions advise against use on the lips

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#23 Guest_Kismet_*

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 03:46 PM

Fredrik, your skin care regimen has been an inspiration to me.
Though, I wonder if it is ONLY aimed at repairing or preventing photodamage and photoaging, or is there any other reason why you apply most of your products only to your face, neck and hands? What about the rest of your body?
Are the topicals not suitable to any other body part? Would it be too expensive?

I know using a retinoid on the whole body may be not the best idea, but what about the cleansers and antioxidants (Skinceuticals C + E ferulic serum)?

Any thoughts on topical green tea, maybe an addition to your regimen? (the caffeine + EGCG may be of some use, in theory)

Zoolander, very interesting question, but I think most directions originate from its use as an acne medication (in that case it would be useless on the lips). The lips consist of skin too, so the idea is sound. Ingesting trace amounts of tretinoin can't be a problem, as even ingesting huge amounts of isotretinoin/tretioin (systemic acne/leukemia treatment) can be fine.
The lips are very sensitive and (at least using systemic isotretinoin) get really dry w/ retinoids, which may be another reason why they advise against putting that stuff on your lips.

Edited by Kismet, 29 May 2008 - 03:47 PM.


#24 Fredrik

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 06:11 PM

Fredrik,

I noticed above that you mention using a 0.05% cream of tretinoin on your lips. Medication directions advise against use on the lips


Hi zoolander!
Smart. Challenging my routine (which evolves but the basics stay) to FORCE me to come out of hiding haha.

Topical retinoids are safely used off label to treat the chronic mucocutaneous disease oral Lichen Planus that appears inside the mouth and on the lips. No harm in using it on your lips.

In earlier work, we demonstrated that 0.1 p. 100 topical tretinoin is clinically effective and well tolerated compared with placebo for the treatment of oral leukoplakia and oral keratosic or erythematous lichen planus.
PMID: 7535512 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

So why does the directions advise against use on the lips when dermatologists sometimes prescribe retinoids specifically for that use?
That´s because the drug company never applied for that indication in the first place.

http://crobm.iadrjou...int/4/2/141.pdf

http://www.blackwell...32.2007.03506.x

#25 Marcsandi

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 06:21 PM

Gosh, my lips peel if I get RAM even close to them. I suppose I can chalk that up to being sensitive to it all around (I get pink pretty easily now with it, even after 2+ years).

Fredrik - impressive post and regime. I just joined the forums to be on this one and learn as much as I can, and I have to say you are a wealth of information. I used to frequent a site called biochemistry of beauty and I learned a similar caliber of info from that site. I hope to go through and read more.

#26 Fredrik

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 06:47 PM

Fredrik, your skin care regimen has been an inspiration to me.
Though, I wonder if it is ONLY aimed at repairing or preventing photodamage and photoaging, or is there any other reason why you apply most of your products only to your face, neck and hands? What about the rest of your body?
Are the topicals not suitable to any other body part? Would it be too expensive?

I know using a retinoid on the whole body may be not the best idea, but what about the cleansers and antioxidants (Skinceuticals C + E ferulic serum)?

Any thoughts on topical green tea, maybe an addition to your regimen? (the caffeine + EGCG may be of some use, in theory)


Thank you for your kind words. I love it when people start to use active evidence based topicals and tell me that they really notice the difference after a few months.

I would only use retinaldehyde or retinol on my body. The skin can only convert so much from these precursors, with activated vitamin A (all-trans retinoic acid = tretinoin) you could theoretically get systemic effects. The retinoid tazarotene that is used for psoriasis, acne and photoaging is not to be used over more than 20% of the body if I remember correctly.

Skinceuticals C + E ferulic can absolutely be used all over. The reason I don´t do that is because it´s too expensive. I do use a homemade hydroalcoholic (water/ethanol) 5-10 % ascorbic acid solution on my body occasionally but the low acidity can make some areas red and irritated (arms, thighs) and I think it´s a bit messy to apply.

I´ve read all the latest studies on EGCG and though I´m convinced rats do well on topical treatment and in the drinking water (preventing cancer, photoaging) the only study that looked specifically on photoaging came up with nothing after several months except some protection of elastic fibers. No difference in skin wrinkling, sagging or pigmentation. Very disappointing.

But I´m open for new evidence, but I keep saying: show me the human histologic study. I want to see the punch biopsies. Like the ones on sunscreens, retinoids and topical C and E.

I can imagine botanicals like green tea can be of use in the future. But let´s start with the physiological antioxidants that you´ve already got in your skin right now and that gets destroyed by UV-radiation, smoke and pollution every day: ascorbic acid, tocopherol, ubiquinone, glutathione. Glutathione is a tripeptide so it´s hard to get that one through the stratum corneum but C and E together is the best topical antioxidants to date because they work together. C recycles E and C on its own is the only antioxidant that turns your collagen production on and it also inhibits tyrosinase so it counteracts faulty and excessive melanin deposition (uneven, blotchy skin tone).

Edited by fredrik, 29 May 2008 - 06:48 PM.


#27 zoolander

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 11:06 PM

Hi zoolander!
Smart. Challenging my routine (which evolves but the basics stay) to FORCE me to come out of hiding haha.


That's so funny because I hadn't seen you around for a little while and thought, perhaps he has this thread marked and a response/reply may bring him out of to play again :)

Great to see you back Fredrik. My skin, thanks to your threads, is in the best shape. Flawless :)

Edited by zoolander, 29 May 2008 - 11:32 PM.


#28 Eva Victoria

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Posted 30 May 2008 - 03:44 PM

Hei Fredrik!

What you write about Vit C+E is not entirely correct :(
These vitamins complete eachother but they are not recyclable antioxidants like EUKARION-134.
The only recyclable antioxidants are the ones that are able to renew themselves after giving away an electron and not become unstable themselves. These are called chalating antioxidants. Vit E+C is not one of these :(
Vit E+C won't last more than up to 2 hours after application. It'll be "used up". A chalating antioxidant can be active up to 6 hours.


but C and E together is the best topical antioxidants to date because they work together. C recycles E and C on its own is the only antioxidant that turns your collagen production on and it also inhibits tyrosinase so it counteracts faulty and excessive melanin deposition (uneven, blotchy skin tone).


#29 Fredrik

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 05:09 AM

[color="#0000ff"][color="#000000"]Hei Fredrik!

What you write about Vit C+E is not entirely correct :(
These vitamins complete eachother but they are not recyclable antioxidants like EUKARION-134.


What I wrote about the recycling of tocopherol is entirely correct, no matter how many unhappy emoticons you use. I never said that tocopherol renews ITSELF, I said that it can be recycled by ascorbic acid. But if you have some new studies that show that tocopherol is not recycled in lipid bilayers, by all means publish them here.

"To be effective as an antioxidant, tocopherol has to be recycled. Ascorbic acid, glutathione, and coenzyme Q10 recycle tocopherol."
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12884471

Full text: http://64.233.183.10...lient=firefox-a

"Once oxidized, vitamin E can be regenerated back to its reduced
form by L-ascorbic acid, allowing it to be reactivated
without creating a new membrane structure."

Cutaneous photodamage, oxidative stress, and topical antioxidant protection.
J Am Acad Dermatol

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

Edited by fredrik, 31 May 2008 - 05:10 AM.


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#30 zoolander

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 06:14 AM

Where did you get that information from Eva Victoria?




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