197 replies to this topic

[Fredrik]

Hi zoolander!
Smart. Challenging my routine (which evolves but the basics stay) to FORCE me to come out of hiding haha.

That's so funny because I hadn't seen you around for a little while and thought, perhaps he has this thread marked and a response/reply may bring him out of to play again

Great to see you back Fredrik. My skin, thanks to your threads, is in the best shape. Flawless

Great to hear that your regime works for you! Puts a smile on my face, really. The hard thing is to convince people to stick through the initial flaking and burning and redness when starting a retinoid. But after a couple of weeks the skin has adjusted and three to six months on the results is noticeable and from thast point you prevent and repair new photodamage continually.

No, I haven´t marked my thread. But that sounds like a neat feature, I´ll look into that. I go to the Imminst forums frequently and read (supplements, calorie restriction and skin health mainly) and I saw your post in this thread.

[Eva Victoria]

Of course I might be wrong but all my dermatological books like on Photoaging (2007) demonstrate the chemical reaction of VitC+E + ROS- and they do not renew themselves/do not recycle themselves. They last as long as they have an electron to give.
Unfortunately I don't have the book digitally hence I won't be able to publish it.

The title:

Photoaging (Basic & Clinical Dermatology) (2007)
by Robert A. Weiss, Henry W. Lim, Darrell S. Rigel, Jeffrey S. Dover

[color="#0000ff"][color="#000000"]Hei Fredrik!

What you write about Vit C+E is not entirely correct :(
These vitamins complete eachother but they are not recyclable antioxidants like EUKARION-134.

What I wrote about the recycling of tocopherol is entirely correct, no matter how many unhappy emoticons you use. I never said that tocopherol renews ITSELF, I said that it can be recycled by ascorbic acid. But if you have some new studies that show that tocopherol is not recycled in lipid bilayers, by all means publish them here.

"To be effective as an antioxidant, tocopherol has to be recycled. Ascorbic acid, glutathione, and coenzyme Q10 recycle tocopherol."
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12884471

Full text: http://64.233.183.10...lient=firefox-a

"Once oxidized, vitamin E can be regenerated back to its reduced
form by L-ascorbic acid, allowing it to be reactivated
without creating a new membrane structure."

Cutaneous photodamage, oxidative stress, and topical antioxidant protection.
J Am Acad Dermatol

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

[Fredrik]

Of course I might be wrong but all my dermatological books like on Photoaging (2007) demonstrate the chemical reaction of VitC+E + ROS- and they do not renew themselves/do not recycle themselves. They last as long as they have an electron to give.
Unfortunately I don't have the book digitally hence I won't be able to publish it.

The title:

Photoaging (Basic & Clinical Dermatology) (2007)

No, you might not be wrong. You are wrong about tocopherol recycling, as you saw in the citations I provided in that post.

Tocopherols and tocotrienols scavenge lipid peroxy radicals, by donating a single electron they produce a tocopheroxyl radical that can then be recycled back to alpha-tocopherol by other antioxidants, like ascorbic acid. This is basic free radical science and you haven´t provided me a single scientific source to the contrary.

I´ve read PHOTOAGING several times. I made Sahlgrenska University hospital buy and include it in their biomedical library when I studied there. Nothing in that excellent book rejects what I´m saying or proves what you are believing about vitamin E.

Edited by fredrik, 31 May 2008 - 07:43 PM.

[zoolander]

Here's a diagram I drew for my thesis. Please do not use it elsewhere without my permission *grins*



the square in the upper corner covers what has been discussed re. recycling

[Eva Victoria]

If you have this wonderful book then you can find the evidence there (Chapter7). Otehrwise I'll scan the page/diagram and post it here (first, have to check that it is legal).


No, you might not be wrong. You are wrong about tocopherol recycling, as you saw in the citations I provided in that post.

Tocopherols and tocotrienols scavenge lipid peroxy radicals, by donating a single electron they produce a tocopheroxyl radical that can then be recycled back to alpha-tocopherol by other antioxidants, like ascorbic acid. This is basic free radical science and you haven´t provided me a single scientific source to the contrary.

I´ve read PHOTOAGING several times. I made Sahlgrenska University hospital buy and include it in their biomedical library when I studied there. Nothing in that excellent book rejects what I´m saying or proves what you are believing about vitamin E.
[/quote]

[Fredrik]

If you have this wonderful book then you can find the evidence there (Chapter7). Otehrwise I'll scan the page/diagram and post it here (first, have to check that it is legal).

What evidence are you talking about? Look at Zoolanders thorough diagram (thank you Zoo!). We can use it as a sort of pictogram here (= an alternative method of communicating for those people who are limited in their ability to speak, read and write) since you´re either not reading my posts or comprehending them.

I HATE arguing on the internets =) Fruitful discussions is one thing, I love to engage in those but this discussion/misunderstanding is leading nowhere. Instead I´ll compile and post some new FUN stuff later, interesting topicals I´ve been eyeing that go beyond antioxidants and possibly can do some good via other mechanisms.

Edited by Fredrik, 03 June 2008 - 10:24 AM.

[zoolander]

I'm looking forward to those posts Fredrik

[Benae]

Yes, Fredrik I'm also looking forward to those posts also. I've been lurking here for almost a year. I find your post very informative. Thank you for talking the time to keep us up-to-date on skincare. I'm trying to lessen the impact of aging skin at 59 years old. Presently I'm using a DIY Vitamin C serum (ascorbic acid and water made fresh daily) along with rotating days of Skinactives CHAS, SAS Let's Make Collagen, SAS 5% DMAE, SAS Anti-Aging Cream and Clinique Continuous Rescue Antioxidant Moisturizer. Also, I use retin-a and tazarotene cream (7 months now). I'm only able to apply every 4th night otherwise the flaking is very annoying. I try to implement diet suggestions given here on ImmInst forum. My diet is very low carb (no sugar or processed foods). However, I do eat fruits. I was supplementing vitamins pretty heavily (multi, fish oil, coQ10, C, D, R-Lipoic Acid, Acetyl L-Carnitine, MSM, EGCg and a few other) but have suspended. I'm 5'8" tall and weigh 145 lbs. (cholesterol 183, Hdl 74, Ldl 101, Vit D 42.4 ng, C-Reactive Protein 0.19). Pretty good shape for woman of my age. Would like to loose 5 pounds but I think maybe I should gain 5 or 10 to fill in wrinkles that are becoming more prevelant (x-smoker is probably the main cause of that).

I would be very interested on your take of a DIY Vitamin C topical versus SkinCeuticals C & E! I use 1/4 tsp. "Now" Ascorbic Acid powder (1,125 mg) to 1 tablespoon distilled water (microwave water 7 seconds then add powder). I do this first thing upon rising, wait 20 minutes then shower and apply two or more of the aforementioned products, lastly applying Neutrogena Ultra Sheer Dry-Touch Sunblock SPF 55 w/helloplex. After studying Eva's recommendations on suncare, I'm considering La Roche Posay Antihelious XL Fluide Extreme....not available here in US so I would have to order.

Again, thank you Fredrik for sharing your knowledge. Also, thank you Eva for contributing. Please don't argue but do continue to share your education and experience.

Barbara Benae

[Eva Victoria]

First of all I did not see it as arguing.

I think it is possible and should be allowed not to agree with everything that you read/hear. And that is all I did.

But know that although Vit E+C together compansate each others abilities NOT to become oxidants in the "antioxidant" process (this much is proven and also that if they are used alone they DO become oxidants on their own) they do not recycle for unlimited time! (And this is EXACTLY what I have pointed out.) And that there is an alternative though not perfect either but maybe it is worth a thought.

So I really don't see what's wrong with that?

If you have this wonderful book then you can find the evidence there (Chapter7). Otehrwise I'll scan the page/diagram and post it here (first, have to check that it is legal).

What evidence are you talking about? Look at Zoolanders thorough diagram (thank you Zoo!). We can use it as a sort of pictogram here (= an alternative method of communicating for those people who are limited in their ability to speak, read and write) since you´re either not reading my posts or comprehending them.

I HATE arguing on the internets =) Fruitful discussions is one thing, I love to engage in those but this discussion/misunderstanding is leading nowhere. Instead I´ll compile and post some new FUN stuff later, interesting topicals I´ve been eyeing that go beyond antioxidants and possibly can do some good via other mechanisms.

Edited by Eva Victoria, 03 June 2008 - 04:05 PM.

[Fredrik]

Yes, Fredrik I'm also looking forward to those posts also. I've been lurking here for almost a year. I find your post very informative. Thank you for talking the time to keep us up-to-date on skincare. I'm trying to lessen the impact of aging skin at 59 years old. Presently I'm using a DIY Vitamin C serum (ascorbic acid and water made fresh daily) along with rotating days of Skinactives CHAS, SAS Let's Make Collagen, SAS 5% DMAE, SAS Anti-Aging Cream and Clinique Continuous Rescue Antioxidant Moisturizer. Also, I use retin-a and tazarotene cream (7 months now). I'm only able to apply every 4th night otherwise the flaking is very annoying. I try to implement diet suggestions given here on ImmInst forum. My diet is very low carb (no sugar or processed foods). However, I do eat fruits. I was supplementing vitamins pretty heavily (multi, fish oil, coQ10, C, D, R-Lipoic Acid, Acetyl L-Carnitine, MSM, EGCg and a few other) but have suspended. I'm 5'8" tall and weigh 145 lbs. (cholesterol 183, Hdl 74, Ldl 101, Vit D 42.4 ng, C-Reactive Protein 0.19). Pretty good shape for woman of my age. Would like to loose 5 pounds but I think maybe I should gain 5 or 10 to fill in wrinkles that are becoming more prevelant (x-smoker is probably the main cause of that).

I would be very interested on your take of a DIY Vitamin C topical versus SkinCeuticals C & E! I use 1/4 tsp. "Now" Ascorbic Acid powder (1,125 mg) to 1 tablespoon distilled water (microwave water 7 seconds then add powder). I do this first thing upon rising, wait 20 minutes then shower and apply two or more of the aforementioned products, lastly applying Neutrogena Ultra Sheer Dry-Touch Sunblock SPF 55 w/helloplex. After studying Eva's recommendations on suncare, I'm considering La Roche Posay Antihelious XL Fluide Extreme....not available here in US so I would have to order.

Again, thank you Fredrik for sharing your knowledge. Also, thank you Eva for contributing. Please don't argue but do continue to share your education and experience.

Barbara Benae

Hi!
Thank you for your kind words. Sounds like you´ve got a good routine. About arguing, I´ll try not to post when I´m irritated in the future. Promise. That´ll cut down on some of the sarcasm.
When it comes to the added benefit of E and ferulic it depends on what you´re after. The C will still stimulate collagen to the same extent whatever formula you use (the DIY can be more irritating if you don´t adjust the pH upwards) but the added E and ferulic significantly enhances the photoprotection. C + E has four times the protection of unprotected skin (spf 4 is my interpretation of that, but that is nothing that skinceuticals is claiming) and C +E + ferulic has 8 times the protection against erythema (spf 8). The E and ferulic also prolongs the shelf life of the product but that won´t matter if you DIY every day.

So with DIY you still get collagen stimulation and photoprotection, just not as much protection as from the combo. I´d go for the combo product, the small samples from ebay isn´t that expensive really. The Neutrogena you´re using has a high PPD (UVA-protection measurement) so that one is good. But the european Loreal sunscreens have so many complementary filters so I´d still go for that one if you can put up with the hassle of ordering overseas.

Good luck!

Edited by Fredrik, 03 June 2008 - 09:43 PM.

[zoolander]

Perhaps you can get rid of the bold type and drop the caps in words such as EXACTLY and NOT. That way you wouldn't come across as aggressive and arrogant. I think there's a communication breakdown. I think that you both understand your subject well but in this case the message is not being heard.

[zoolander]

re. the skinceutical CE Ferulic and spf 4

Here's the scientific study for that reference

J Am Acad Dermatol. 2003 Jun;48(6):866-74.Click here to read Links
UV photoprotection by combination topical antioxidants vitamin C and vitamin E.
Lin JY, Selim MA, Shea CR, Grichnik JM, Omar MM, Monteiro-Riviere NA, Pinnell SR.

Department of Medicine, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC 27710, USA.

BACKGROUND: Virtually all plants and animals protect themselves from the sun using vitamins C and E. OBJECTIVE: The purpose of this study was to see if a combination of topical vitamins C and E is better for UV protection to skin than an equivalent concentration of topical vitamin C or E alone. METHODS: We developed a stable aqueous solution of 15% L-ascorbic acid (vitamin C) and 1% alpha-tocopherol (vitamin E). We applied antioxidant or vehicle solutions to pig skin daily for 4 days. We irradiated (1-5x minimal erythema dose) control- and antioxidant-treated skin using a solar simulator with a 295-nm band-pass filter. On day 5, we measured antioxidant protection factor, erythema, sunburn cells, and thymine dimers. RESULTS: The combination of 15% L-ascorbic acid and 1% alpha-tocopherol provided significant protection against erythema and sunburn cell formation; either L-ascorbic acid or 1% alpha-tocopherol alone also was protective but the combination was superior. Application during 4 days provided progressive protection that yielded an antioxidant protection factor of 4-fold. In addition, the combination of vitamins C and E provided protection against thymine dimer formation. CONCLUSION: Appreciable photoprotection can be obtained from the combination of topical vitamins C and E. We suggest that these natural products may protect against skin cancer and photoaging.

You may also want to consider supplementing with Heliocare, which also provide UV-B and UV-A protection

Drugs Today (Barc). 2007 Jul;43(7):475-85.Click here to read Links
Polypodium leucotomos extract: a nutraceutical with photoprotective properties.
Gonzalez S, Alonso-Lebrero JL, Del Rio R, Jaen P.

Dermatology Service, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, New York, NY 10022, USA. gonzals6@mskcc.org

Ultraviolet (UV) irradiation causes multifaceted damage to the skin and adjacent tissue layers, and is one of the leading causes of premature skin aging, immunosuppression and carcinogenesis. Photoprotection can be achieved by the use of sunscreens and also by systemically administered compounds that fight the deleterious biological effects of UV exposure, or preferably both. In this review, we summarize the current knowledge on the tissue, cellular and molecular mechanisms underlying the photoprotective effect of Polypodium leucotomos fern extract. P. leucotomos blocked the deleterious effect of UV irradiation both in vivo and in vitro. The molecular basis of photoprotection relies on its ability to inhibit free radical generation, prevent photodecomposition of both endogenous photoprotective molecules and DNA, and prevent UV-induced cell death. Its complete loss of toxicity combined with its multifactor protection makes it a valuable tool not only for direct photoprotection, but also as an efficacious adjuvant to phototherapy of various skin diseases.

Edited by zoolander, 03 June 2008 - 11:10 PM.

[Benae]

Thanks Fredrik and Zoolander. Any suggestions for a DIY C with added E? I really like the idea of fresh vitamin c daily but never knew just how to get the E incorporated. Yes, it would be easier to just order skinceuticals C-E-Ferulic. I definitely see the need for the combo...yet I would still love to DIY an efficacious combo serum.

Oh Fredrik, I'm soooooooo looking forward to the "fun" stuff. Again, thanks for all your sharing. As I mentioned, I'm a new member here but have been a guest for about a year. You have contributed so much to Skin Health for me and I am sure countless others!

[luminous]

I finally used up my bottle of Prevage, and so I just ordered Skinceuticals' CE Ferulic serum from ebay. I have a question for Fredrik or zoolander. I keep reading about this product's antioxidants providing "photoprotection" and SPF factor of 4. I guess I'm not completely clear on the role of topical antioxidants. Don't they do more than merely act as a sunscreen? SPF 4 is better than nothing, but I've got products with helioplex that offer SPF of 50+. (I know I must be misunderstanding something, because of all the positive research on this product.)

Edited by luminous, 04 June 2008 - 03:36 AM.

[Ben]

Perhaps you can get rid of the bold type and drop the caps in words such as EXACTLY and NOT. That way you wouldn't come across as aggressive and arrogant. I think there's a communication breakdown. I think that you both understand your subject well but in this case the message is not being heard.

Personally I think no one should use bold or capitals. Especially with Times New Roman. Italics, ok, but avoid the others.

Perhaps you can get rid of the bold type and drop the caps in words such as EXACTLY and NOT. That way you wouldn't come across as aggressive and arrogant

This seemed to me like a fair return.

[Eva Victoria]

Ok. Agreed. Hope we can put this behind us

Perhaps you can get rid of the bold type and drop the caps in words such as EXACTLY and NOT. That way you wouldn't come across as aggressive and arrogant. I think there's a communication breakdown. I think that you both understand your subject well but in this case the message is not being heard.

[Fredrik]

Ok. Agreed. Hope we can put this behind us

Perhaps you can get rid of the bold type and drop the caps in words such as EXACTLY and NOT. That way you wouldn't come across as aggressive and arrogant. I think there's a communication breakdown. I think that you both understand your subject well but in this case the message is not being heard.

Yes. And Eva, I´m not happy with the frustrated tone of my last post directed at you. My apologies.

[Eva Victoria]

Accepted.

Ok. Agreed. Hope we can put this behind us

Perhaps you can get rid of the bold type and drop the caps in words such as EXACTLY and NOT. That way you wouldn't come across as aggressive and arrogant. I think there's a communication breakdown. I think that you both understand your subject well but in this case the message is not being heard.

Yes. And Eva, I´m not happy with the frustrated tone of my last post directed at you. My apologies.

[Eva Victoria]

Hi Barbara!

1.I would like to suggest one tiny detail to making your own VitC serum at home.
Ususally using Ascorbic Acid wont penetrate into your skin very well and it is extremely unstable (only stable as long as it is in powder form).
Using Magnesium (sodium) ascorbyl phosphate will make your mixture more stable, penetrates better and you can store your mixture in the fridge for 3 weeks without loosing any significant effect.

What is very difficult in making VitC+E serum stable is that while VitC is a water-sollouble vitamin, VitE is a fat-solluble one. You'll have to have a water and a fatty W/O phase and be able to mix it homogenously. Which is impossible without using an emulsifier. And then you'll have to know which one to use so the different Ph values of your mixtures will still bind together and so forth...

Basically it is virtually "impossible" to make it at home in my opinion unless you know enough about cosmetic/bio chemistry or you are a pharmacist.

I have found a link to a website about the stability of VitC, maybe you'd be interested:

http://www.plasticsurgeons.co.za/

2. Your Neutrogena Ultra Sheer Dry-Touch Sunblock SPF 55 w/helloplex is one of the best sunscreens curently available in the US but La Roche Posay (or any L'Oreal owned brand sold in the EU) have much higher UVA protection in the UVA1 zone (360-400nm, they can protect up to 383nm, while Helioplex protects upto 376nm). Please see attached doc.

Yes, Fredrik I'm also looking forward to those posts also. I've been lurking here for almost a year. I find your post very informative. Thank you for talking the time to keep us up-to-date on skincare. I'm trying to lessen the impact of aging skin at 59 years old. Presently I'm using a DIY Vitamin C serum (ascorbic acid and water made fresh daily) along with rotating days of Skinactives CHAS, SAS Let's Make Collagen, SAS 5% DMAE, SAS Anti-Aging Cream and Clinique Continuous Rescue Antioxidant Moisturizer. Also, I use retin-a and tazarotene cream (7 months now). I'm only able to apply every 4th night otherwise the flaking is very annoying. I try to implement diet suggestions given here on ImmInst forum. My diet is very low carb (no sugar or processed foods). However, I do eat fruits. I was supplementing vitamins pretty heavily (multi, fish oil, coQ10, C, D, R-Lipoic Acid, Acetyl L-Carnitine, MSM, EGCg and a few other) but have suspended. I'm 5'8" tall and weigh 145 lbs. (cholesterol 183, Hdl 74, Ldl 101, Vit D 42.4 ng, C-Reactive Protein 0.19). Pretty good shape for woman of my age. Would like to loose 5 pounds but I think maybe I should gain 5 or 10 to fill in wrinkles that are becoming more prevelant (x-smoker is probably the main cause of that).

I would be very interested on your take of a DIY Vitamin C topical versus SkinCeuticals C & E! I use 1/4 tsp. "Now" Ascorbic Acid powder (1,125 mg) to 1 tablespoon distilled water (microwave water 7 seconds then add powder). I do this first thing upon rising, wait 20 minutes then shower and apply two or more of the aforementioned products, lastly applying Neutrogena Ultra Sheer Dry-Touch Sunblock SPF 55 w/helloplex. After studying Eva's recommendations on suncare, I'm considering La Roche Posay Antihelious XL Fluide Extreme....not available here in US so I would have to order.

Again, thank you Fredrik for sharing your knowledge. Also, thank you Eva for contributing. Please don't argue but do continue to share your education and experience.

Barbara Benae

Attached Files

•  Neutrogena_Ultra_Sheer_Dry_Touch_Sunblock_SPF_55.pdf   391.95KB   1533 downloads

[Benae]

Eva, thank you. Yes, the link you provided was very informative. However, now I'm worried that I did more harm than good to my skin or at best provided nothing at all. My main objective is minimizing wrinkles. I'm really noticing the wrinkles and sagging on my face. Overall skin texture and pigmentation is great (the ascorbic acid did help even out skintone). I do have a few broken capillaries on my cheeks and the undereye circles I've had all my life. So my complexion is good, it's just those dang wrinkles. I turn 60 next year and I guess unless I choose the knife or fillers, which I won't, it will be even more wrinkles to come. I have been reading your posts and have started the Clinique w/EUK-134. Think I'll order some VitC+E serum. Do you think the Skinceuticals is a good one also. Which route/preparation would you select if you were my age? I don't want to waste anymore time experimenting. Yes, I'm also going to order La Roche Posay Antihelios or Nivea Light Sensation. I have 4 tubes of Neutrogena so I was waiting to deplete that supply.

Barbara Benae

[quote name='Eva Victoria' date='5-Jun 2008, 01:14 PM' post='243558']
Hi Barbara!

1.I would like to suggest one tiny detail to making your own VitC serum at home.
Ususally using Ascorbic Acid wont penetrate into your skin very well and it is extremely unstable (only stable as long as it is in powder form).
Using Magnesium (sodium) ascorbyl phosphate will make your mixture more stable, penetrates better and you can store your mixture in the fridge for 3 weeks without loosing any significant effect.

What is very difficult in making VitC+E serum stable is that while VitC is a water-sollouble vitamin, VitE is a fat-solluble one. You'll have to have a water and a fatty W/O phase and be able to mix it homogenously. Which is impossible without using an emulsifier. And then you'll have to know which one to use so the different Ph values of your mixtures will still bind together and so forth...

Basically it is virtually "impossible" to make it at home in my opinion unless you know enough about cosmetic/bio chemistry or you are a pharmacist.

I have found a link to a website about the stability of VitC, maybe you'd be interested:

http://www.plasticsurgeons.co.za/

2. Your Neutrogena Ultra Sheer Dry-Touch Sunblock SPF 55 w/helloplex is one of the best sunscreens curently available in the US but La Roche Posay (or any L'Oreal owned brand sold in the EU) have much higher UVA protection in the UVA1 zone (360-400nm, they can protect up to 383nm, while Helioplex protects upto 376nm). Please see attached doc.

[goatz]

Hello,

I am 27 and have reasonably good skin and want to keep it that way. Should I use a retinoid or wait until I am older ? the only retiniod I have access to would be Tretinoin cream 0.05%.

Other than this I will be following your regime (Skinceuticals C E Ferulic 8, La Roche-Posay Anthelios 50+ Fluide,La Roche-Posay Anthelios XL Crème) Does the skinceuticals C E smell last long ? do the sunscreens smell bad too ?


Many thanks

[Fredrik]

Hello,

I am 27 and have reasonably good skin and want to keep it that way. Should I use a retinoid or wait until I am older ? the only retiniod I have access to would be Tretinoin cream 0.05%.

Other than this I will be following your regime (Skinceuticals C E Ferulic 8, La Roche-Posay Anthelios 50+ Fluide,La Roche-Posay Anthelios XL Crème) Does the skinceuticals C E smell last long ? do the sunscreens smell bad too ?


Many thanks

The sooner the better. Retinoids prevent both intrinsic and extrinsic skin aging as they share some of the same mechanisms.

No, I´m not bothered by the hot dog smell really. It doesn´t linger for me.

No, the sunscreens don´t smell bad.

Edited by Fredrik, 06 June 2008 - 01:03 PM.

[kismet]

Maybe I'll chime in to the Q&A. That Polypodium leucotomos extract (Heliocare) sounds great, but does anyone know where to order it in Europe? (I am not sure whether I'll be able to buy any at the local pharmacy)

I've read about retinoids preventing 'both intrinsic and extrinsic skin aging' before and find that quite encouraging. Though, it seems that we cannot quite beat intr
insic (skin-)aging yet, not even w/ the best available regimen.
I hope it's ok if I quote you on that:
“no wrinkles at rest but visible wrinkles in the corners of my eye and naso-labial lines when I smile. As most people in their 30s. Also some in the forehead when I look surprised. So I have not used botox as you hear. But my skin texture is better than most other 30 somethings and I attribute that to sun avoidance, retinoids and acids (ascorbic, salicylic).” (Fredrik)

Don't forget to post the list of interesting topicals as soon as you have time ;.)

Edited by kismet, 06 June 2008 - 10:26 PM.

[zoolander]

That Polypodium leucotomos extract (Heliocare) sounds great, but does anyone know where to order it in Europe? (I am not sure whether I'll be able to buy any at the local pharmacy)

You can buy it at DermaDoctor

[Ben]

http://in2herbs.cart...ls/2121085.html

60ml at $29

cheap! Two drops are equivalent to a tablet I think (calculate this yourself, check the tablet etc... each drop is 1ml pure extract)

You can add it to a moisturizer for psoriasis or take it orally for the sun protection.

Edit: zoolanader, these people are in Aus so cheap shipping for us

Edited by Ben - Aus, 07 June 2008 - 08:41 AM.

[Eva Victoria]

Hi Barbara!

Sorry for late answer.
If I were you I would use a Tretinoin creme (Retin-A or Renova) every night followed by a good neutral moisturizer.
In the morning Skinceuticals Ferulic C+E is a good alternative though you should use the bottle up within a month.
Clinique Continous Rescue Antioxidant moisturizer is a very good antioxidant complex so you should apply that at least in a thin layer on your skin.
And at last a good EU sunscreen SPF50+ should be applied that is reapplied every 2 hours through the day.

The remaining 4 tubes of your Neutrogena you could use up from end of September till beginning of March.

There is an alternative to the Skinceuticals Ferulic C+E serum (Owned by L'Oreal). It is Biomedic (available in the US at dermatologists) Biomedic Vitamin C serum (10-20% concentration with Vit.E.). It is a brand of LA Roche Posay (also owned by L'Oreal). What is good about this serum is that they use a specially made Vit.C (a Spanish company makes it) that is much more stable and is lipophilic that makes it easier to incorporate with VitE and degrades much slower. It can stay in the skin for 36 hours (which means that it is enough to be applied 1 a day.)

Eva, thank you. Yes, the link you provided was very informative. However, now I'm worried that I did more harm than good to my skin or at best provided nothing at all. My main objective is minimizing wrinkles. I'm really noticing the wrinkles and sagging on my face. Overall skin texture and pigmentation is great (the ascorbic acid did help even out skintone). I do have a few broken capillaries on my cheeks and the undereye circles I've had all my life. So my complexion is good, it's just those dang wrinkles. I turn 60 next year and I guess unless I choose the knife or fillers, which I won't, it will be even more wrinkles to come. I have been reading your posts and have started the Clinique w/EUK-134. Think I'll order some VitC+E serum. Do you think the Skinceuticals is a good one also. Which route/preparation would you select if you were my age? I don't want to waste anymore time experimenting. Yes, I'm also going to order La Roche Posay Antihelios or Nivea Light Sensation. I have 4 tubes of Neutrogena so I was waiting to deplete that supply.

Barbara Benae

[Benae]

Thanks Eva for your informative and valuable information!

[Eva Victoria]

You are welcome, Barbara!

I would add also that Botox (oncce a year) can also help giving a rest to the underlying muscles in the skin so wrinkles have some time to regenerate.
And Tretinoin also has a boosting effect on collagen so collagen can build and stay longer at these areas as well.

VitC stored in the fridge will increase its shelflife

Good luck!

Thanks Eva for your informative and valuable information!

[mitkat]

This is Fredrik's skin care regime thread, if people wish to post questions about their own regimes they really should be making their own threads. Thanks

[Benae]

I apologize.