197 replies to this topic

[Gerald W. Gaston]

http://in2herbs.cart...ls/2121085.html

60ml at $29

cheap! Two drops are equivalent to a tablet I think (calculate this yourself, check the tablet etc... each drop is 1ml pure extract)

You can add it to a moisturizer for psoriasis or take it orally for the sun protection.

Edit: zoolanader, these people are in Aus so cheap shipping for us

No experience with them... but it is cheaper here at least for US ($20.75 + $3.95 S/H):

http://www.healthypr...dementia/Detail

[Ben]

Wow nice find! Let's not go crazy about this fern here though. New thread!

http://in2herbs.cart...ls/2121085.html

60ml at $29

cheap! Two drops are equivalent to a tablet I think (calculate this yourself, check the tablet etc... each drop is 1ml pure extract)

You can add it to a moisturizer for psoriasis or take it orally for the sun protection.

Edit: zoolanader, these people are in Aus so cheap shipping for us

No experience with them... but it is cheaper here at least for US ($20.75 + $3.95 S/H):

http://www.healthypr...dementia/Detail

[tintinet]

Wow nice find! Let's not go crazy about this fern here though. New thread!

http://in2herbs.cart...ls/2121085.html

60ml at $29

cheap! Two drops are equivalent to a tablet I think (calculate this yourself, check the tablet etc... each drop is 1ml pure extract)

You can add it to a moisturizer for psoriasis or take it orally for the sun protection.

Edit: zoolanader, these people are in Aus so cheap shipping for us

No experience with them... but it is cheaper here at least for US ($20.75 + $3.95 S/H):

http://www.healthypr...dementia/Detail

Interesting this is sold primarily as a dementia aid. I wonder about its other systemic effects.

[Eva Victoria]

Finally I have found the paper I read that EUK-134 is a more powerful Antiox. than VitE+C.
EUK-134 basically lasts longer as an antioxidant.

You find the quote at the last paragraph on page 4.

(It is in context with formulating sunscreens)

Of course I might be wrong but all my dermatological books like on Photoaging (2007) demonstrate the chemical reaction of VitC+E + ROS- and they do not renew themselves/do not recycle themselves. They last as long as they have an electron to give.
Unfortunately I don't have the book digitally hence I won't be able to publish it.

The title:

Photoaging (Basic & Clinical Dermatology) (2007)

No, you might not be wrong. You are wrong about tocopherol recycling, as you saw in the citations I provided in that post.

Tocopherols and tocotrienols scavenge lipid peroxy radicals, by donating a single electron they produce a tocopheroxyl radical that can then be recycled back to alpha-tocopherol by other antioxidants, like ascorbic acid. This is basic free radical science and you haven´t provided me a single scientific source to the contrary.

I´ve read PHOTOAGING several times. I made Sahlgrenska University hospital buy and include it in their biomedical library when I studied there. Nothing in that excellent book rejects what I´m saying or proves what you are believing about vitamin E.

Attached Files

•  Dispersions06.pdf   46.9KB   298 downloads

[Forever21]

Dear Eva,

I've read the last paragraph on page 4. This is very interesting stuff!!!

I was wondering if you know where to get such products with this ingredient and maybe nutrition sources as well.

Is it mentioned in the whole document?

Thanks

[Eva Victoria]

No it is not :(

I only know of one product that contains Eukarion-134 and that is Clinique Continous Resque Antioxidant Moisturizer which comes in 3 variants: oily, combo, dry skin.
It contains EUK-134 and Ferulic acid as well.

Have a post on Eukarion, please see link bellow.

As a supplement it is classified as a drug against Parkinson d.

I'll post attachments here:

http://www.imminst.o...ant-t20194.html

Dear Eva,

I've read the last paragraph on page 4. This is very interesting stuff!!!

I was wondering if you know where to get such products with this ingredient and maybe nutrition sources as well.

Is it mentioned in the whole document?

Thanks

Edited by Eva Victoria, 27 June 2008 - 06:32 PM.

[Fredrik]

I only know of one product that contains Eukarion-134 and that is Clinique Continous Resque Antioxidant Moisturizer which comes in 3 variants: oily, combo, dry skin.
It contains EUK-134 and Ferulic acid as well.

Several other brands contain Eukarion-134 besides Clinique. It is not an ingredient invented by or used exclusively by Estee Lauder/Clinique, they just purchase it from Atrium Innovations like other brands do. It is not a chelator of metals but a salen-manganese compound that acts as a SOD/catalase-mimetic.

Atrium Innovation, Canada has the rights for the manufacture and sale of one of Eukarion’s lead compounds to cosmetic companies worldwide. The first product on the market is a multi-protection anti-oxidant cream SPF 15 by Estée Lauder cosmetics.

http://ww3.business....;companyid=1557

I´m not too impressed with this topical, compared to other cocktails like C + E. But if you find a moisturizer/serum with it that you like you can use it over topical l-ascorbic acid.

Eukarion-134 can be found in all these products and many others (listed by its INCI name: ethylbisiminomethylguaiacol manganese cholride):

* Alyria - Corrective Protection Sunscreen SPF 30 Oil-Free Lotion

* G.M. Collin A.G.E. Total Defence

* Prescriptives Superline Preventor Extreme

* Pure encapsulations Integral Dermo Correction Serum With System 9

* Estee Lauder Advanced night repair concentrate

* Lab Series Skincare for Men - Daily Moisture Defense Lotion SPF 15

* Bliss Triple Oxygen Instant Energizing Mask

* UnDamage Deep Reconstructive Serum

and so on...

Edited by Fredrik, 28 June 2008 - 05:05 PM.

[luminous]

I only know of one product that contains Eukarion-134 and that is Clinique Continous Resque Antioxidant Moisturizer which comes in 3 variants: oily, combo, dry skin.
It contains EUK-134 and Ferulic acid as well.

Several other brands contain Eukarion-134 besides Clinique. It is not an ingredient invented by or used exclusively by Estee Lauder/Clinique, they just purchase it from Atrium Innovations like other brands do. It is not a chelator of metals but a salen-manganese compound that acts as a SOD/catalase-mimetic.

Atrium Innovation, Canada has the rights for the manufacture and sale of one of Eukarion’s lead compounds to cosmetic companies worldwide. The first product on the market is a multi-protection anti-oxidant cream SPF 15 by Estée Lauder cosmetics.

http://ww3.business....;companyid=1557

I´m not too impressed with this topical, compared to other cocktails like C + E. But if you find a moisturizer/serum with it that you like you can use it over topical l-ascorbic acid.

Eukarion-134 can be found in all these products and many others (listed by its INCI name: ethylbisiminomethylguaiacol manganese cholride):

* Alyria - Corrective Protection Sunscreen SPF 30 Oil-Free Lotion

* G.M. Collin A.G.E. Total Defence

* Prescriptives Superline Preventor Extreme

* Pure encapsulations Integral Dermo Correction Serum With System 9

* Estee Lauder Advanced night repair concentrate

* Lab Series Skincare for Men - Daily Moisture Defense Lotion SPF 15

* Bliss Triple Oxygen Instant Energizing Mask

* UnDamage Deep Reconstructive Serum

and so on...

Thanks, Fredrik. I was looking to buy some Eukarion-134 until I saw that the only company I could purchase it from was Estee Lauder. I refuse to buy Estee Lauder products (don't ask). Glad to see I can get it elsewhere. OTOH, I'm probably covered with Skinceutical's C E Ferulic, along with Neutrogena's Helioplex sunblock (both recommended by you).

[zoolander]

please excuse what I have to say for a second Fredrik but I think it needs to be said. Especially here.

Eva you appear to be doing what you can to hijack threads where Fredrik has posted. I have seen this on a few occasions. On these occasions you state something as scientific fact when it is not. I'm a scientist and I find your over the top statements to ridiculous at times. On top of this your response to people when they state that this is not true can come across as dismissive and just plain arrogant.

I would appreciate it if you considered how you posted in the future. Your cut and paste posts may seem scientific to some but you need to try and understand that what you read in books can be sometimes outdated and incorrect. Please dp not hijack people's thread either.

now in saying all that I do understand that your actions may have been with good intent and that you perhaps do not understand how these forums work. I think I have pretty much spelled it out above, albeit a little aggressive, but that's just me. I'm a stickler for good science related to health and I don't have any tolerance for willy nilly recommendations that can potentially damage a persons health.

[Mia K.]

Fredrik,

Thank you for posting your skin care regimen ~ very instructive! I use the Alpha Hydrox cleanser myself - good stuff , if a little foamy. I also like Paula'sChoice Skin Balancing Cleanser.

I'll begin "sensitizing" my skin to Retin-A .05% cream following your recs once I get my S/s choice(s) settled.

Again, thank you for your contributions to the forum.

~Mia

[luminous]

Fredrik, thanks once again from me, too.

I'd like to ask your opinion. I've been using Neutrogena Ultra Sheer Body Mist Sunblock (SPF 70--with Helioplex) every morning--on my face. A few minutes after applying my CE Ferulic--while my hair is still wrapped in a towel--I hold my breath, close my eyes and give my face and neck a good spray. Afterwards, I rub it in a bit to cover any areas that the mist might have mist.

Here are the reasons I like using this product on my face:
1) It's quick and saves me time in my morning routine getting ready for work.
2) The product is not greasy like most lotion-based sunscreens. Applying a lotion on top of the CE Ferulic serum causes quite a shiny build-up--and my skin is on the oily side anyway.
3) This is a super efficient way to coat the skin around my eyes with sunscreen.
4) It dries pretty quick, so I actually think there's less of a chance of the product getting into my eyes than lotion sunscreens. I haven't had any problems with eye irritation from the spray.
5) To me, this sunscreen has a really nice, subtle scent, a bit like roses.

Now, I realize a warning on the can says "Do not spray directly on face." However, I'm careful to keep my eyes (and mouth) closed, plus I hold my breath when I spray. Also, I immediately walk away from the vicinity after spraying to reduce inhaled fumes. One potential problem is that the product contains alcohol. I haven't experienced any kind of dry skin, but I wonder if alcohol can be damaging to skin in some way.

Am I crazy, or is this a good idea? I'd very much appreciate opinions from you (or anyone else). TIA.

[Ben]

A few minutes after applying my CE Ferulic

I remember reading a post of Fredrick's where he mentions that he waits at least 20 minutes before applying anything over the C E Ferulic. If I remember correctly this was due to the other topical changing the PH of the serum and subsequently its absorptive ability. I can't be bothered looking it up so I can't verify it as yet.

Edit: Try and find the ingredients of this sunscreen and post them.

Edited by Ben - Aus, 09 July 2008 - 08:48 AM.

[Fredrik]

Fredrik, thanks once again from me, too.

Your welcome! Happy to help.

Regarding sunscreen sprays. I recommend you spray in your hand and apply to your face instead. There is no harm for the skin using products with alcohol if it´s not drying for you.

Yes, as Ben-Aus posted, try to wait a while (10-30 min, with 30 being optimal) before applying anything over your topical C. Ascorbic acid in solution is best absorbed with a pH of less than 3.5. Skin is slightly acidic in itself.

[Mia K.]

Edit: Try and find the ingredients of this sunscreen and post them.

Not luminous, but here's the ingredient list for the Neutrogena USBM Sunblock spf 70 (from EWG website):

Ingredients from packaging: Active Ingredients: Avobenzone (3.0%), Homosalate (8.0%), Octisalate (4.0%), Octocrylene (2.35%), Oxybenzone (5.0%)Inactive Ingredients: SD Alcohol 40 2 (68%), Isobutane, Diethylhexyl 2,6-Naphthalate, Trisiloxane, Dimethicone, Acrylates/Octylacrylamide Copolymer, PPG 5 Ceteth 20, Tocopheryl Acetate, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Retinyl Palmitate, CyclopentaSiloxane, Acrylates/Dimethicone Copolymer, Fragrance

~Mia

[luminous]

Edit: Try and find the ingredients of this sunscreen and post them.

Not luminous, but here's the ingredient list for the Neutrogena USBM Sunblock spf 70 (from EWG website):

Ingredients from packaging: Active Ingredients: Avobenzone (3.0%), Homosalate (8.0%), Octisalate (4.0%), Octocrylene (2.35%), Oxybenzone (5.0%)Inactive Ingredients: SD Alcohol 40 2 (68%), Isobutane, Diethylhexyl 2,6-Naphthalate, Trisiloxane, Dimethicone, Acrylates/Octylacrylamide Copolymer, PPG 5 Ceteth 20, Tocopheryl Acetate, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Retinyl Palmitate, CyclopentaSiloxane, Acrylates/Dimethicone Copolymer, Fragrance

~Mia

Thanks to Fredrik and also Mia for posting the ingredients.

Ben--glad you mentioned waiting 20 minutes. I tried that this morning and it made a big difference. The product was totally absorbed, and then my face wasn't quite so shiny after spraying the sunscreen 20 minutes later.

[spacetime]

Bumping this to see what if any changes have been made to his regimen. I'm sure others are equally interested.

[Ben]

Bumping this to see what if any changes have been made to his regimen. I'm sure others are equally interested.

Seconded.

[Fredrik]

I´ve added a few things but the core products are still there and always will be: sunscreen, retinoid and vitamin C + E serum. Been using azelaic acid on and off for years against acne and for brightening skin. Ok, here it goes:

Morning

• Cerave hydrating cleanser

• vitamin C + E serum (Skinceuticals C + E ferulic). Will order and try the new hydroalcoholic lightweight serum Phloretin CF under the C + E ferulic to further minimize elastin breakdown. I also apply C + E ferulic serum on my neck and lips.

wait 20-30 minutes

• La Roche-Posay fluide extreme SPF 50+ for face and the SPF 50+ cream for the eye area. Bioderma SPF stick for lips.

• Peter Thomas Roth or Colorsciences Sunforgettable SPF 30 powder to matify (it provides neglible protection though).

Evening

• The Body shop Aloe vera sensitive foaming facewash (the aloe vera is just marketing fluff. I like that it´s fragrance free and mild) or Cerave hydrating cleanser

• A retinoid on face, neck and hands (Tazarotene 0.1% cream or tretinoin 0.05%) and on alternate nights azelaic acid gel 15% (Finacea) on the face only. About once a week or less depending on my tolerance I use one of the strongest retinoids on the market, tretinoin alcohol gel 0.1%, as a "mini-peel". I find tretinoin better at "plumping" skin up but with some redness and tazarotene better against enlarged pores. So i use both, but tretinoin is still the most studied retinoid against photoaging. I apply tretinoin 0.05% + a very emollient niacinamide cream on my lips to smooth and plump them up, increase collagen production and enhance skin barrier recovery.

Wait 1-2 hours. Tretinoin breaks down in the presence of light, oxygen and oxidizing agents.
So I´m careful not to apply anything directly over it. But a bland cream is probably not a problem. It will buffer your retinoid and decrease absorption which you may want if you´re still getting used to it.

• Relastin skin revitalizer (zinc ion cream. May stimulate functional elastin production. But this hasn´t been studied enough in humans yet. If not, it´s still a lightly exfoliating non-comedogenic cream).

http://www.skinandag...m/article/7850#


Supplements for skin health

• Heliocare (Polypodium leucotomos) 480 mg/day = two capsules one hour before breakfast.

• Glucosamine sulfate 1500 mg/day to ensure optimum hyaluronic acid production, not only in joints but other connective tissue. You lose HA in your epidermis from your 30s. 50% of the whole body's HA is found in the skin where it gives volume to the face and enhance cell communication. HA gets degraded by free radicals and can act like a "heat sink", protecting more vital structures.

• 55 gram of tomato paste with steamed broccoli or kale. Contains a therapeutic dose of lycopene, luteine and zeaxanthine to protect pro-collagen in skin and possibly the retina of your eyes against daily UV-exposure.

Going to add next: Remergent DNA serum with three DNA repair enzymes (in the morning, over C serum and under sunscreen or nightly). I´m awaiting the FDA approval of this companys novel drug, a DNA repair lotion called Dimericine.

Edited by Fredrik, 27 August 2008 - 02:05 PM.

[VictorBjoerk]

It would be great if you could post a photo of yourself Fredrik... How old do people generally think you are?

[Fredrik]

It would be great if you could post a photo of yourself Fredrik... How old do people generally think you are?

You want a photo of me? Well, I´m living in emotional celibacy right now. You can have my body though. Um...maybe.
I´ll have to see a pic of YOU first.

I look my age. Most people do, but for some reason people think they look younger than others their age. I turned 32 yesterday. People put my age between 27-31. I don´t have boyish looks. With a buzz cut, sideburns and a constant five o´clock shadow (even after I`ve just shaved) I think I look like a 30-year old guy. A slim 30-year old. With rosy cheeks haha.

I don´t use these products to try to look anything but my age. I just want to look as good as I can at my current age. And prevent skin cancer and photoaging at the same time.

I´ll post a pic in the members forum and you can judge for yourself.

Edited by Fredrik, 27 August 2008 - 12:05 AM.

[Benae]

Fredrik, Happy Birthday!

[Fredrik]

Fredrik, Happy Birthday!

Thank you dear!

[kenj]

>>> I don´t use these products to try to look anything but my age. I just want to look as good as I can at my current age. And prevent skin cancer and photoaging at the same time. <<<

Fredrik, that's a very wise & realistic way to look at aging at this point, and I share your views on 'maturing with style'. More or less sleeping with C-E-ferulic/retinoid under my pillow these days.
BTW, great pics!

[Fredrik]

>>> I don´t use these products to try to look anything but my age. I just want to look as good as I can at my current age. And prevent skin cancer and photoaging at the same time. <<<

Fredrik, that's a very wise & realistic way to look at aging at this point, and I share your views on 'maturing with style'. More or less sleeping with C-E-ferulic/retinoid under my pillow these days.
BTW, great pics!

kenj: Thanks!

Just wanted to say that I´ve added this conservative list of supplements for skin health to my recent update. I´m sure it will grow with time, if the science is there for other supplements that is.

Supplements for skin health

• Heliocare (Polypodium leucotomos) 480 mg/day = two capsules one hour before breakfast.

• Glucosamine sulfate 1500 mg/day to ensure optimum hyaluronic acid production, not only in joints but other connective tissue. You lose HA in your epidermis from your 30s. 50% of the whole body's HA is found in the skin where it gives volume to the face and enhance cell communication. HA gets degraded by free radicals and can act like a "heat sink", protecting more vital structures.

• 55 gram of tomato paste with steamed broccoli or kale. Contains a therapeutic dose of lycopene, luteine and zeaxanthine to protect pro-collagen in skin and possibly the retina of your eyes against daily UV-exposure.

http://www.imminst.o...&...st&p=259575

Edited by Fredrik, 27 August 2008 - 02:06 PM.

[Benae]

Fredrik, thanks for the update on your regimen & supplements. Speaking of lycopene, can I get your take on Super AOX Firm Moisturizer from Cellbone? I was thinking about giving this a try. "A light, rich moisturizing formula that contains 1.5% Lycopene, 1% CoQ10, 10% Matrixyl 3000 (palmitoyl pentapeptide-3/4) with Omega3 rich Inca Inchi oil." An alternative without the lycopene would be Isomers Matrixyl 3000 (Water/Aqua, Linum Usitatissimum (Linseed) Seed Extract, Glyceryl Polymethacrylate, Propylene Glycol, Glycerine, Butylene Glycol, Carbomer, Polysorbate 20, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide-7, Methylparaben, Propylparaben.) I'm looking for a Matrixyl 3000 product to include in the basic regimen you have outlined.

Also, I'm awaiting your "fun stuff" list that you talked about in an earlier post. Are you close to putting it together?

Barbara Benae

[Fredrik]

Fredrik, thanks for the update on your regimen & supplements. Speaking of lycopene, can I get your take on Super AOX Firm Moisturizer from Cellbone? I was thinking about giving this a try. "A light, rich moisturizing formula that contains 1.5% Lycopene, 1% CoQ10, 10% Matrixyl 3000 (palmitoyl pentapeptide-3/4) with Omega3 rich Inca Inchi oil." An alternative without the lycopene would be Isomers Matrixyl 3000 (Water/Aqua, Linum Usitatissimum (Linseed) Seed Extract, Glyceryl Polymethacrylate, Propylene Glycol, Glycerine, Butylene Glycol, Carbomer, Polysorbate 20, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide-7, Methylparaben, Propylparaben.) I'm looking for a Matrixyl 3000 product to include in the basic regimen you have outlined.

Also, I'm awaiting your "fun stuff" list that you talked about in an earlier post. Are you close to putting it together?

Barbara Benae

I´m still not convinced that these short fragment collagen peptides can penetrate the SC and If that would actually be beneficial. Fragmented collagen (that these peptides emulate), can theoretically both stimulate repair and inhibit collagen synthesis as they act as feedback messengers. It´s still unclear what they will do if they actually could penetrate the SC. All the studies you´ve seen, beside the silicon imprint, are cell culture studies. They mean nothing unfortunately.

I´m wary of recommending anything that isn´t backed by solid science but I would try the Olay Regenerist serum fragrance free (niacinamide + palmitoyl pentapeptide-3) with their micro-sculpting cream (niacinamide + palmitoyl pentapeptide-4). That way you would at least get the benefits of the niacinamide.

Personally, I´d try the Olay Definity line instead (niacinamide + acetyl glucosamine). Skin brightening + glycosaminoglycan stimulation + enhanced barrier repair. Sounds like a good adjunct to a retinoid regime.

Oh, the "fun" stuff was just some notes about elastin regeneration and hyaluronic acid stimulation. But most stuff about elastin can be found in the link I provided. One interesting tidbit, ascorbic acid actually inhibits elastin generation in experimental studies on fibroblasts. But the clinical relevance of this, if any, is unknown. It may be that topical ascorbic acid just inhibits non-functional (the result of UV-damage) elastin.

What we know is that topical C will not cause skin sagging, rather the opposite. My experience is that a retinoid + topical C can produce some skin firming after 6-12 months of use.

Edited by Fredrik, 27 August 2008 - 09:58 PM.

[Benae]

Fredrik, thanks for the update on your regimen & supplements. Speaking of lycopene, can I get your take on Super AOX Firm Moisturizer from Cellbone? I was thinking about giving this a try. "A light, rich moisturizing formula that contains 1.5% Lycopene, 1% CoQ10, 10% Matrixyl 3000 (palmitoyl pentapeptide-3/4) with Omega3 rich Inca Inchi oil." An alternative without the lycopene would be Isomers Matrixyl 3000 (Water/Aqua, Linum Usitatissimum (Linseed) Seed Extract, Glyceryl Polymethacrylate, Propylene Glycol, Glycerine, Butylene Glycol, Carbomer, Polysorbate 20, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide-7, Methylparaben, Propylparaben.) I'm looking for a Matrixyl 3000 product to include in the basic regimen you have outlined.

Also, I'm awaiting your "fun stuff" list that you talked about in an earlier post. Are you close to putting it together?

Barbara Benae

I´m still not convinced that these short fragment collagen peptides can penetrate the SC and If that would actually be beneficial. Fragmented collagen (that these peptides emulate), can theoretically both stimulate repair and inhibit collagen synthesis as they act as feedback messengers. It´s still unclear what they will do if they actually could penetrate the SC. All the studies you´ve seen, beside the silicon imprint, are cell culture studies. They mean nothing unfortunately.

I´m weary of recommending anything that isn´t backed by solid science but I would try the Olay Regenerist serum fragrance free (niacinamide + palmitoyl pentapeptide-3) with their micro-sculpting cream (niacinamide + palmitoyl pentapeptide-4).

Personally, I´d try the Olay Definity line instead (niacinamide + acetyl glucosamine). Skin brightening + glycosaminoglycan stimulation + enhanced barrier repair. Sounds like a good adjunct to a retinoid regime.

Oh, the "fun" stuff was just some notes about elastin regeneration and hyaluronic acid stimulation. But most stuff about elastin can be found in the link I provided. One interesting tidbit, ascorbic acid actually inhibits elastin generation in experimental studies on fibroblasts. But the clinical relevance of this, if any, is unknown. It may be that topical ascorbic acid just inhibits non-functional (the result of UV-damage) elastin.

What we know is that topical C will not cause skin sagging, rather the opposite. My anecdotal experience is that a retinoid + topical C can produce some skin firming after 6-12 months of use.

Yep, I believe I will hold off on the Matrixyl for now. I've ordered the Relastin and will add that after CE Ferulic application, waiting 20 minutes of course. I'm still trying to up my frequency of tretinoin in the PM. I've been at every 3rd/4th night for over 6 months, sometimes alternating with tazarotene. I'm using .05% tretinoin so perhaps I should try the .025%. It's mainly the flaking that's annoying. I'm really after the "skin firming" effects.

[Fredrik]

Yep, I believe I will hold off on the Matrixyl for now. I've ordered the Relastin and will add that after CE Ferulic application, waiting 20 minutes of course. I'm still trying to up my frequency of tretinoin in the PM. I've been at every 3rd/4th night for over 6 months, sometimes alternating with tazarotene. I'm using .05% tretinoin so perhaps I should try the .025%. It's mainly the flaking that's annoying. I'm really after the "skin firming" effects.

If you have dry skin or if the temperature and humidity will drop soon where you live I´d recommend the Relastin Ultra emollient instead of the regular cream which is very light.

I´m on my third jar of Relastin and I hope the studies they´re carrying out now will indeed show that the elastin it produces is functional. But until then it´s a chance we´re taking with this cream. It could be that it´s just working as a good moisturizer. Just want you to know that.

If the flaking is constant even after 3-4 weeks you have to reduce the frequency until it´s gone (it can last up to 10 weeks for some people, but introducing it slowly will work for most). It may be that every third day is optimal for you. But often people give up in the retinizing phase though the redness and flaking will slowly go away as they get used to the new level of retinoic acid in their skin.

Sorry that I can´t be more specific, my advice is to experiment like you do now and use your retinoid to tolerance. Using it as often as you can handle without getting red, raw and flaking skin.

[Benae]

[/quote]

If you have dry skin or if the temperature and humidity will drop soon where you live I´d recommend the Relastin Ultra emollient instead of the regular cream which is very light.

[/quote]


Yes, my skin is very dry; however, I've already ordered the Relastin regular cream. I'll purchase the Ultra next time. Thanks.

[kismet]

You want a photo of me? Well, I´m living in emotional celibacy right now. You can have my body though. Um...maybe.
I´ll have to see a pic of YOU first.

I look my age. Most people do, but for some reason people think they look younger than others their age. I turned 32 yesterday. People put my age between 27-31. I don´t have boyish looks. With a buzz cut, sideburns and a constant five o´clock shadow (even after I`ve just shaved) I think I look like a 30-year old guy. A slim 30-year old. With rosy cheeks haha.

I don´t use these products to try to look anything but my age. I just want to look as good as I can at my current age. And prevent skin cancer and photoaging at the same time.

I´ll post a pic in the members forum and you can judge for yourself.

I like your modesty and appreciate your conservative realism. I thought most people look older than their age and thus looking your age is pretty good? Anyway you're right, looking the best you can is a better approach than trying to desperately look x years/decades younger.
However, it's easier for guys to look attractive even as late as in their fifties, guys can age with style, women less so. I wouldn't mind some further improvements in dermatology which would allow everyone to look the way they want to as long as they want to, wouldn't you? (I'm not sure from your post; but I don't like the "aging gracefully" approach at all, I'd prefer not to age obviously! but as long as we can't stop aging we have to make do with what we have got)

Sadly I'm not yet a member, I want to see the picture :-/

Edited by kismet, 28 August 2008 - 02:37 PM.