209 replies to this topic

[Live Forever]

Not anytime soon, but maybe some day. They would just take too much time away from what I want to do with my life. If I end up living a few hundred years after aging is cured, then maybe I will come to a point where I'd like to take the 20 years or so to raise kids, but right now I don't see it on the horizon.

[amar]

I chose "I'm inclined to say no, but I'm not sure yet" because I barely know you-- you're just an anonymous poster online from who-knows-where, and we don't have the technology yet to make gay sex procreative. Not saying I'm gay, but I'm inclined to say "no, but I'm not sure yet."

[health_nutty]

You guys are crazy talking about spreading your genes, tribes, and creating little scientists. Having kids for me is about having kids to enjoy their company (two little people, not half of my genes, or to force them to follow dreams that are my own).

Edited by health_nutty, 09 January 2008 - 01:41 AM.

[Live Forever]

You guys are crazy talking about spreading your genes, tribes, and creating little scientists. Having kids for me is about having kids to enjoy their company (two little people, not half of my genes, or to force them to follow dreams that are my own).

Having kids so that you can have more friends is not a great reason to do so, imo. I have heard this same reason for having kids from others (because people are lonely or want more friends or other similar reasons) and it always strikes me as odd. I am not saying there are bad reasons to have kids, just that this is not a very good one, imo.

[health_nutty]

You guys are crazy talking about spreading your genes, tribes, and creating little scientists. Having kids for me is about having kids to enjoy their company (two little people, not half of my genes, or to force them to follow dreams that are my own).

Having kids so that you can have more friends is not a great reason to do so, imo. I have heard this same reason for having kids from others (because people are lonely or want more friends or other similar reasons) and it always strikes me as odd. I am not saying there are bad reasons to have kids, just that this is not a very good one, imo.

Friends and kids are completely different relationships. I think it is very dysfunctional to treat your kid as a friend (as apparently do you). They need a parent.

[Shannon Vyff]

Yeah, can't be 'friends' with kids--must parent. I had a dad who was the best friend type, and a mom who was the overly strict 'on-top-of-every-little-thing' type--and after becoming a parent found out I must stay in the middle--since I want to be a 'friend' all the time, it is good that I have my husband who has the better parent boundaries .

[stargazer]

While I'm still quite young, almost 20, I'm absolutely sure I want children. Without a shadow of a doubt. Not wanting to have children is fine, and I don't advocate that people should do it just because it's "natural", however some reasons given for not wanting children shows signs of emotional dysfunction IMO. For instance, trying to rationalize longings in an objective way and convert that to the subjective mind will almost always fail. When you procreate you transmit half of your genes to another individual, this however does not mean that the reason you want to have children is to spread half of your genome. The outcome is not necessarily the reason. To think that it is, is to commit a huge thought-error.

For instance, let's say you are about to get hit by a bus. You don't want to get hit by the bus (the outcome) because you don't want to die (the reason). The reason behind not wanting to get hit is that you don't want to die. If it were not it would look like this; "I don't want to get hit by a bus, because I don't want to get hit by a bus." The same is true with procreation or any other emotion. There's an objective outcome, and there's a subjective reason. The subjective reasons' do indeed spring from the objective, which for us are our biology but that does not mean that objectivity equals subjectivity (objectivity /= subjectivity).

I want children because I love life. Life is where all values come from, there cannot be anything to treasure without existence. I want to partake in creation of an individual that hopefully will enjoy existing as much as I do. And I want to have children because of the experience of it. To have children is to go through something you never would have otherwise, it's a layer to life and I want to explore it all. But the greatest reason why I want children is that I love people, and I'm certain I will love my future spouse, to create something with her that have an infinite value (as all nice people have according to me) is probably one of the greatest undertakings in one's life. This is why I want children, and this is why I will forgo my career when I decide to have them in order to raise them properly. Life is not an equation, it cannot be measured in pros and cons, atleast not for me, because existance for me is subjective.

[thughes]

No kids for me. I've just never wanted any, ever. I'm a career person, too many interesting things to do and learn to make time for kids I guess.

Plus the biological clock never kicked in. I thought I was supposed to develop a sudden urge to have kids in my 30s... so much for that.


- Tracy

[basho]

The longer you intend to live the more sense it makes to have kids. With a mere 20-year time-investment you can seed your own "tribe" that will surely be helpful in the coming centuries.

Helpful maybe if the coming centuries turn out to be a Mad Max wasteland of competing tribal gangs in assless chaps frighting over the last remaining natural resources to power their muscle cars.

[JonesGuy]

My genetic self-copy consists of stem-cell batches which are preserved for when I need them. Eventually I predict that there will be a few hundred pounds of my cells.

I'm greatly fond of children. I've found that I'm not charitable enough to adopt or be a foster parent, but I might be someday. That said, I enjoy providing support to adoption agencies and to foster parents.

[treonsverdery]

Id like to have kids

I'm creating a way that any two people may choose among millions of swimming gametes with isotopically traced genes just regular people can have whoever they have as partners n still have eugenics


right now people take the antiviral medication acyclovir n make swimming gametes; these gametes have a recurring unique artificial amino acid gaunine as part of their structure; as acyclovir passed the FDA I think a micro hyper strength MRI could find a N15 mri optimized amino acid; mri can work on different kinds of atoms; modified thymine might create a quantifiable trace of the actual genes present at a swimming gamete

acyclovir is made a part of gametes at three orders of magnitude less than guanine; yet with millions of bp thats a bunch of novelty amino acids that are genome active; use N15 that could be eaten as an amino acid supplement; or better amino acid building portion the purpose of which is to preferentially accumulate at a particular part of a particular amino acid structure; thymine has the most unique nitrogen placement; isotopically novel thymine is a way of very broadly mapping the presence of genes under super strong gamete radius mri

swimming gametes are clonal right now; various species produce clusters of genetically identical swimming gametes; depending on species you might get 2 or 30 duplicates of the same swimming gamete; if the outer surface proteins are unique to a group then sampling n pcr on a particular gamete could be used to choose which of the actual remaing clone cluster gametes was preferred; microfluidics or hyper strength mri finds a swimming gamete with the same surface or microstructure of the gamete that was pcr characterized

well, with a few hundred million swimming gametes characterized you get

upper pt of happiness person
upper pt of kindness person
upper pt of cleverness person
with latitude to go with talent or beauty as well

I'm visualizing a daughter much kinder happier n cleverer than me singing a tune, then saying well I noticed fur elise rhymed with greensleeves, you like

I just like people; the high value genes are valuable though

have to be a daughter though as I have rose genes

Edited by treonsverdery, 12 March 2008 - 05:48 AM.

[sentrysnipe]

Most probably not. Having children is a luxury and a liability, at least in my current economic status.

[williamhessian]

I admit that i am terrified of starting a family. Is anyone else worried?

I still cling to my answer, "probably some day". My plan as a teenager was to have a kid and get married around the age of 30-32. I still want to stick to that idea, but I'm not sure if I want to raise a kid in america. At least not currently.

Financially, it seems even more unlikely. I do share the opinion of some of the other replies in wanting to pass on my genes, and teach things to a new life. I am also excited to watch a new life grow and hopefully effect the future (even more hopefully that it will be positive).

I dont mean to sound so grim, because I am an optimistic and happy person on most days. I enjoy each day of my life. I am always learning and challenging myself....and i love it. The idea of starting a family and bringing in new people to experience this world does make me very nervous.

Edited by williamhessian, 14 March 2008 - 07:38 PM.

[Shannon Vyff]

I have an uncle who decided not to bring children into this world because of how bad things were, he also calls me to tell me how my kids are going to die--and the world will fall apart so cryonics won't even work--at least every two or so weeks. I talk to him, say positive things, agree with some of his stuff, say I love him-- and am happy to be off the phone. It comes down to half full, or half empty in my book--I tend to be the half full type (my husband out of the blue labeled me as such today, when I talked about how I liked that the muscles in my left leg were feeling burn and getting stronger due to an injury in my right foot... my injury will be healed within two weeks, but that is an aside) The point is, I tend to look at all the bad things in this world, feel I can make a little bit of difference--and in the end, I'm damn proud of my children. We had our first day in the '90s here in TX, they all three are sleeping out on our trampoline (its spring break) and I read to them about robotics and space exploration. They talked about a trip they made to Houston's space center a few weeks ago, things they saw behind the scenes--what they want to do when they grow up. Lying there with them, small in the middle of our '16 foot trampoline--gazing at the stars, commenting on the various bugs we hear--the traffic in the distance, humanity going about their business--the vastness of space. It was one of those amazing moments as a parent, that makes you so in love with what you give, all you do--and no matter what they turn into, the time you had with them.

[mike250]

I'm planning to not have any kids. I simply don't like them-- call me cruel---. I also prefer to spend my money elsewhere.

[niner]

I admit that i am terrified of starting a family. Is anyone else worried?

Oh, hell yeah. I was, anyway. Then I had one, and it turned out to be pretty cool. Then I had another. Of course, I say "I had.." but my wife did the hard part. I put off child-having as long as possible. It helps that my wife is five years younger than me. Anyway, I think it is pretty normal to have trepidations about it. If you don't, you either came from a really great family, or you are probably deluding yourself to some extent.

Another great pic, William. Thanks for posting it.

[katzenjammer]

This is such a great topic - and an impossible one. So many parents tell me that "you cannot know how joyful being a parent is" - usually they're telling me this with baggy eyes, nerves frayed, kids shrieking in the house somewhere. It's hard to know what the truth is.

I've never met parents who didn't seem entirely pleased with their decision. But I've always wondered whether that's because, after the fact, they have no choice but to feel this way - now they have to live with it. Perhaps acceptance like that is oddly freeing.

Or, perhaps, by approaching this intellectually, I am truly missing out on a transformation - a sort of copernican revolution of my own world - that I cannot actually comprehend the depth and importance of until I live it.

[Shannon Vyff]

Well, I was reading Amnesty International's latest magazine issue, today (I've been a member for years) and heard the translated stories of women who had children as the byproduct of the ethnic cleansing and rape in Rwanda, '94, an estimated 20,000 children were created during the conflict. The children are 11 and 12 now, many are hated--living in orphanages, some girl children being prostitutes to make money for their mothers, boys that have been sold for labor from young ages--children who do not live with their parents, some who do--but the mother (there are no fathers since the children are from rape, and the families of the women do not want the children, or accept the mother if she keeps it) the mothers now, clearly say they do not love their child, it reminds them of the rape--but they guess they are glad they didn't kill it.

This is an extreme example of a parent rejecting a child, but it happens in wealthy countries too--parents that resent the time or money their children take, I've met them. I would wish all children were wanted, and brought into families that can support them finically and time wise.

[katzenjammer]

it happens in wealthy countries too--parents that resent the time or money their children take, I've met them. I would wish all children were wanted, and brought into families that can support them finically and time wise.

Good lord Shannon, really? What, were they surprised to find that children actually require a lot of work??? How very, very sad. I wonder though, if people like that would be miserable whatever their situation.

[Ghostrider]

You guys are crazy talking about spreading your genes, tribes, and creating little scientists. Having kids for me is about having kids to enjoy their company (two little people, not half of my genes, or to force them to follow dreams that are my own).

Having kids so that you can have more friends is not a great reason to do so, imo. I have heard this same reason for having kids from others (because people are lonely or want more friends or other similar reasons) and it always strikes me as odd. I am not saying there are bad reasons to have kids, just that this is not a very good one, imo.

I think it should actually be a lot more than that. Too many people have children because it's what everyone else is doing. Or even worse, they have children just to propagate their own genetics and create something that lives longer than themselves, which also characterizes a virus. I think that the best way to approach having children is in hopes of raising something that turns out better than oneself. Better in the sense of a more productive, more fulfilled individual. So I think the goal should be quality over quantity. Raise the most successful offspring or "products" as possible, that should be the approach from the beginning and really the only justified reason for having children. Too many people have children which becomes burdens to society, f**k trophies as a friend of mine labels.

Having said that, I am not sure if I want to share in parenting someday. It's a lot of work and harder than ever to get it right. It's a lot of risk.

Edited by Ghostrider, 20 March 2008 - 02:15 PM.

[katzenjammer]

I think that the best way to approach having children is in hopes of raising something that turns out better than oneself. Better in the sense of a more productive, more fulfilled individual.

I wonder about this actually. This can (and often does) easily slip into parents living & hoping vicariously through their children, which is bad both for the parent & child. Too many parents forget that their lives are important too; that they should be role models for children to live up to, providing limits and both negative & positive feedback, not obsequiously adoring and fawning over every little thing the child does, hoping the child will be "better" than they are. This is hugely destructive with respect to children IMHO. (Of course, it is incredibly difficult to do otherwise if you're the only parent doing so, etc.)

[Cyberbrain]

It looks like a good 80% of immortalists don't want to have kids.

[Shannon Vyff]

It looks like a good 80% of immortalists don't want to have kids.

Well perhaps through their writing and their work, they will still inspire the next generation--because they certainly aren't raising the next generation

But really, I know a lot of immortalists, transhumanists, cryonicists who have children--to me it seems about 50/50 This has been an illuminating poll though.

[Shannon Vyff]

I've read studies that show having kids are good for your brain, and even add to your longevity--but really, I feel that I'm stressed several times each day, and constantly worry about them, how they'll turn out in life... I guess it is all the love, the joy and the proudness that wins in the end.

[niner]

It looks like a good 80% of immortalists don't want to have kids.

If we controlled for age I bet it would look a lot different. Maybe 80% of teenagers don't want to have kids. (At least in the immortalist subculture)

[forever freedom]

I've read studies that show having kids are good for your brain, and even add to your longevity--

That's probably because a great deal of people out there have no meaning to their lives and get constantly depressed and when they have children they finally find a reason to stay alive and more meaning to their lives than they ever had before.

Edited by sam988, 23 March 2008 - 04:20 AM.

[Shannon Vyff]

Well one study showed that the neuron connections become more thick in the brain of a parent, when they have a new child. I think it is the boost needed to keep the infant alive, but then it continues as they grow. Also adult children help their aging parents, this would help in the longevity--but the connections likely do to, and the reason to live to say watch grandchildren grow, and help with their lives... Also, with children you feel overwhelming love, unlike anything else in your life--the love for something beyond yourself, and the hormones associated with that love, are good for your health, immune system, and general outlooks for life--the well being causing you to take better care of yourself.

This is a current study looking at the brain regions involved in caring for a baby: http://www.scienceda...80226213448.htm

[forever freedom]

I think that having children kinda makes the person "softer", meaning that he is more prone to accept death because he already passed on his genes (which from a logical standpoint shouldn't make a difference but people think that if they children are in the world and are well cared they have already fullfilled their mission and can die happy).

Edited by sam988, 23 March 2008 - 05:56 AM.

[missminni]

Well one study showed that the neuron connections become more thick in the brain of a parent, when they have a new child. I think it is the boost needed to keep the infant alive, but then it continues as they grow. Also adult children help their aging parents, this would help in the longevity--but the connections likely do to, and the reason to live to say watch grandchildren grow, and help with their lives... Also, with children you feel overwhelming love, unlike anything else in your life--the love for something beyond yourself, and the hormones associated with that love, are good for your health, immune system, and general outlooks for life--the well being causing you to take better care of yourself.

This is a current study looking at the brain regions involved in caring for a baby: http://www.scienceda...80226213448.htm

Dogs serve the same purpose. I've had kids and dogs. Dogs are better. They love you back.
Kids are precious when they're little, but as they hit adolescence, it's a crap shoot, and as adults, depending on the mates they choose to
partner up with, you'd be surprised how bad it can be. As for taking care of you when you're older, think again. I've seen
them hasten the death of an elderly parent just so they could inherit more money. The problem with children is they don't always grow
up into very nice adults. Get a puppy. You'll get the same health benefits and none of the anguish.