209 replies to this topic

[vyntager]

Having kids would be cool, but I don't plan that for anytime soon, first things first I have to focus on building up my own life, and having to care for someone else would be more than I could tend for. Even if there comes a time when I am materially secure enough, and mentally mature enough to be able to raise children, it would be pretty unlikely that they would be my own. So no, but for pragmatic reasons rather than because I wouldn't like to.

[Shannon Vyff]

I think that having children kinda makes the person "softer", meaning that he is more prone to accept death because he already passed on his genes (which from a logical standpoint shouldn't make a difference but people think that if they children are in the world and are well cared they have already fullfilled their mission and can die happy).

I've had three children, and will have some more. I am no less willing to die, in fact it may have made me more of an immortalist as I did not sign up for cryonics till I was pregnant with my first child when I was age 21. Trust me, I will never be happy to die, unless I have a brain destroying disease and I'm choosing to starve myself to death in order to preserve my brain for the best suspension possible at that time.

[jonano]

any?

anyone know what kind of risks there is with a baby?

what is good for the development of a child (female)? I suspect school. children daycare because it does help social skills. What else? never change your location since you will break the friendships of your child.

I want the best for my girl! ;-)

--Jon

Edited by jonano, 23 March 2008 - 11:03 PM.

[Shannon Vyff]

I sent him a list by email!

But, classes and books really help.

There is much to childproofing a home, covering outlets, making sure nothing heavy is sitting on something that can be easily tipped, safety locks on cabinets, covers for any fire places, safety locks covering door handles... that is all just for babies. Anyone wanting to learn really should check out books, and take a class on early childhood education--or the classes given to foster parents and adoptive parents that teach all about baby care and child care.

[Sozin]

Right now I think I lean towards the more 'free spirit' ideology and don't want to have kids. They do seem a burden, and once they are born the focus is placed on their lives rather than your own -- which doesn't seem to appealing (probably pretty selfish). But on the other hand I hate thinking of the idea of being a 60-70 year old guy alone with my wife (but then again watching my 30 year old kids run around doesn't seem to appealing either). I guess I'm just torn.

As for raising a child, I recommend teaching them to play chess as early as possible just for fun. Plus you could learn yourself as they learn and then play each other. It gets the brain moving at an early age. Just don't annoy them with it. My dad already was a very good player when he taught me, it took me about 15 years to finally beat him (He never showed an ounce of mercy). Anyway, good luck

[xlifex]

.

Edited by xlifex, 25 March 2008 - 10:39 PM.

[xlifex]

It looks like a good 80% of immortalists don't want to have kids.

If we controlled for age I bet it would look a lot different. Maybe 80% of teenagers don't want to have kids. (At least in the immortalist subculture)

There may be more than a superficial relation between immortality and childlessness.

An interesting book chapter on the subject is:

"Dual Immortality, No Kids: The Dink Link between Birthlessness and Deathlessness in Science Fiction" in:
Immortal Engines: Life Extension and Immortality in Science Fiction and Fantasy by George Edgar Slusser, Gary Westfahl (Editor), George E. Slusser (Editor) --1996

As someone pointed out before, one aspect of having children is that it confers a "cheap" form of life extension. Conversely, when one is interested in personal immortality, the desire to have children seems to lessen.

Although I expect the desire to have children to decline as people become more "transhuman" (as already seems to happen in non-religious white educated households) , I think it's a completely subjective affair. I never think about children myself unless someone else raises the issue.

[lunarsolarpower]

anyone know what kind of risks there is with a baby?

Careful Parents lists a few hazards.

Also I'm not sure about the quality of the source but the idea isn't new that a mother's nutrition while pregnant affects the life of the child.

[modelcadet]

I'm currently more interested in birthing memetic children, but at some point in the far away future, I might have kids.

[Heliotrope]

I'm currently more interested in birthing memetic children, but at some point in the far away future, I might have kids.

voted the 2nd option. might want to far in the future. when i'm ready, and only when i feel it's the right thing to do. hey if extreme LE pans out, and one can keep on existing, then I don't see much of the point. it'll be more of a liability, but i'll think there could be a strong desire or even joy of procreating progeny, though only 1 child or maybe 2. Not that i don't like kids, but i think that'll be what's best for all


i think having children is genes passing on, ensuring genetic "immortality" when you die, tho it will be halved every generation and eventually gets watered down to almost nothing.

[HereInTheHole]

I have two boys, 14 and 6. I love having them. They're usually a joy to be around and caring about them has made me work harder to become a better person. But it's not all good. I've given up a lot to have them.

For those people who think about the ramifications and say "no thanks", I have enormous respect. That shows a level of self-awareness and long-range planning that is uncommon. When most people decide to have children, I'm sure 90% of the decision is emotional: babies are cute, mom would be happy with grandchildren, etc. Having a child is irresistible to those types, like a donut to an over-eater. Only an unreasonable amount of reasoning could change the impulse. After the first or second donut, emotions satiated, people do start questioning whether it's worth it to have another. The no-thanks crowd, though, uses both emotion and reason to decide before taking the first bite. I applaud that.

Edited by NarrativiumX, 03 October 2008 - 05:49 PM.

[Shannon Vyff]

Before I had children, I knew they'd hate me at times, they'd be my greatest anguish... I had them anyway, since they'd still be around when I was old--I could teach them like no one else could (I'm much more interested in the meme than the gene)--Everyone thinks their parents are "crazy", "old fashioned", "out-of-the-loop", "not cool", "mean", etc.--but they also respect them, think fondly of them, and miss them if they die. My children challenge me like nothing else ever would have (since I was always good at what I tried, excelled in school, won awards--full scholarships etc.) I never would have been humbled in the same way if I'd not watched children grow and become themselves. I love teaching them, I have yet to see what will stick after they are fully on their own, but I'm also going to have more babies there is nothing like nursing a child and feeding their brain--helping them become prescient beyond all others their age, giving them that exponential "head start"... they can do with it what they will.... at some point it is all up to them

[bacopa]

I think I may want to have children but I'll have to make a heck of alot more money than I do presently. I don't find children that interesting however and they are often annoying and rather stupid, to put it bluntly. One day we will be able to better our genes through medical interventions, but until than we are left on our own. I am afraid of death however, very afraid, and am hesitant to bring a person into this world knowing that they have to face the same fears as me. On the other hand giving existence to non-existence is a wonderful undertaking I believe. So I guess my final decision is I'm on the fence.

[Shannon Vyff]

Yeah, they make bad decisions --but so do adults. I'd reckon that children raised with the right awareness and ideals, will be worth more to the world that those raised without a decent education.

[thefirstimmortal]

Definitely not.
I never saw the upside to that deal.

[Centurion]

Yes, definitely. It's not something I've decided on an intellectual or conscious level, it's just something I've always wanted.

[quarter]

Yes definitely.

I generally like kids, I also like me and I like my fiancée, I am optimistic about the combination of our genes should we be fortunate enough to procreate.

I also like teaching and believe I am relatively good at it (I am currently working as a private tutor while I write my PhD thesis and plan to become a school teacher and athletics coach thereafter) as the oldest child I often saw it as my duty to teach my younger brother and sister and enjoyed doing so (I like to take some credit for my brother's footballing (soccer to American readers) abilities given all the time I spent with him in the garden practicing skills). Both of my parents were also school teachers (4-11 year olds) and I believe I learned a lot about educational development from them, they both studied the topic extensively. Hence I am optimistic about my parenting skills. The work life balance of a teacher is also fairly compatible with parenting given that the working hours and holidays are largely compatible, for the school age years at least.

I am under no illusion that my own career or life is of such significance or importance that I do not have time to raise children or more important things to do. I also dislike excessive wealth (loose definition, and perhaps I have adopted this attitude to cope with my current lack of it) and my fiancée's career coupled with our modest taste is such that we would be in the wealthy bracket if we did not have a family to support, at times it can be difficult to accept what I have in life (by accident of birth) given the plight of so many others, without the guilt of thinking that I chose not have children for the sake of a bigger house/car/holiday (I must point out that this guilt is not so great that it burdens me, I ignore it fairly successfully most of the time, but on occasion when I think about it: I feel guilty - being brought up Catholic I have an ingrained sense of guilt about a lot of things).

I have spent a lot of my time learning and experiencing, and I while I am an advocate of learning/experiencing for learning/experiencing's sake, I believe I have a lot I would enjoy and like to pass on (more than I can pass on to pupils or athletes though teaching and coaching).

Most of the greatest experiences in my life have been when I have shared them with my family or my now fiancée. For me an experience without someone I care about to share it with is never quite the same. I want to have those magical Christmas morning experiences again (this time from the parent's perspective), those family holidays and I want to spend evening's discussing things with my offspring as my dad and I did, or reading novels with my kids as my mum did with us. I would also like to be looked up to the way I look up to my dad, he is a humble primary school teacher but he is everything I would like to be.

I am weary of having too high expectations though. My kids (should we have any) may not be as like me, and/or my fiancée, as I would like (my brother and sister are very different from me despite similar genetics and environment), my fiancée often reminds me that should we have sons they might not even like sport (let alone support Man Utd). I like to believe I will like them whoever they are, even if they chose to support Liverpool (Man Utd's rivals) or are not so interested in learning, for instance. I also have to be realistic: my parenting skills may not be as good as I hope, but at the moment I am voting yes, definitely.

[TheOtherIgor]

I have two children. If I had to choice to do it over again, I absolutely would have them. My happiest times are when they're happiest. Just yesterday during Halloween, walking around the neighborhood with my six-year-old was wonderful.

Passing on my genes wasn't a concern. I had no reason to think there was anything special about my genes. My wife, yes, but not me. Now that they've each tested with an IQ in the 140s and they're both generous and loving despite having completely different personalities, maybe my genes did contribute something positive.

Edited by TheOtherIgor, 02 November 2008 - 02:53 AM.

[John_Ventureville]

platypus wrote:
The longer you intend to live the more sense it makes to have kids. With a mere 20-year time-investment you can seed your own "tribe" that will surely be helpful in the coming centuries.
>>>

This is an excellent point. I worry that by the mid/late 21st century you will have to "apply successfully" for the right to have a child (and you will only be allowed one or two kids) or you could face very serious legal action from the state. And so have your kids now! lol Shannon Vyff and others like her here are making an investment that just may pay off for centuries to come...

John Grigg

[Forever21]

Yes. Definitely. As soon as possible. As MANY as possible.

At 27, I can't wait to have children. This is one of my huge priorities.

[forever freedom]

Yes. Definitely. As soon as possible. As MANY as possible.

At 27, I can't wait to have children. This is one of my huge priorities.

Wow, why do you want many children?

[Shannon Vyff]

I want as many as possible, so I have more chances of their being around to help me when I'm very old. Or the possibility of a few becoming very well off in our society... Or just so I can have grand kids, and great grand kids to educate with my transhumanist ways

[forever freedom]

I want as many as possible, so I have more chances of their being around to help me when I'm very old. Or the possibility of a few becoming very well off in our society... Or just so I can have grand kids, and great grand kids to educate with my transhumanist ways

I'm sure that's not the only reason you have them. If it were, you could just spare the effort and invest the time and effort in yourself instead of "spending" it on them, and the investment would pay off more than investing all that time and energy on new beings that require education from scratch and all that boring stuff.

[Heliotrope]

platypus wrote:
The longer you intend to live the more sense it makes to have kids. With a mere 20-year time-investment you can seed your own "tribe" that will surely be helpful in the coming centuries.
>>>

Your own "tribe" idea is good, when you potentially have many relatives, friends, and allies to help you in your many years to come. The genetic legacy would be diluted down and even if many blood-relatives are direct descendents, they may share an index of cosanguinity of 1/8 (.125 or 12.5%), 1/16 (6.25% common share of your "blood") etc. I

I imagine even most of one's direct descendents wouldn't care all that much about great great great grand daddy anymore, if still alive.

With your "tribe", there could be conflicts too, infighting, tribal warfare, right to "inherit" legacies. There are certainly more complications and other matters.

[REGIMEN]

I don't find children that interesting however and they are often annoying and rather stupid, to put it bluntly.

In no way do I mean this comment for just you, but for people on both sides of that fence you're sitting on:

It's all up to you (parents, the teachers/people/experiences/environments/media that children are made to experience).

"Stupid" children are just --challenging-- those around them to help them be less stupid. Take on the challenge and show them how stupid you are not so they can learn from a master how to do it right.

[ImmortalPlan]

Definitely not. I told my parents when I was 14 that I was never going to have children, and I have stood by that decision ever since. My depth of understanding the "why" has changed, but not my decision.

I am not driven by the emotional factor (it's just not there), and my way of life and my goals would be severely compromised by children. My husband and I want to enjoy each other and life without the distractions and responsibility that children bring. In our book, the "cons" outweigh the "pros".

[Berserker]

Definitely yes. I think that have children is one of the better things in life that you can do.

[erzebet]

i've voted definitely not for several reasons:
1. i prefer brain children to biological children - i enjoy robotics, computers, gadgets, engineering in general and i'll never get bored of these
2. biological aspect: i don't wanna experience labor or washing pampers or anything like that- it may be normal, but it is gross to me
3. financially - there are things and experiences that make much happier than investing in a child
4. the human species is not an extinct one

i'd better have a pet than a child
5. the last reason for which i have no children and unfortunately no pets is that i don't wanna get attached to someone that might die one day or might suffer and i couldn't help- when a computer doesn't work anymore it might annoy me at most if i had to work, but that is not the case to people or animals whose brain is damaged or have a devastating disease

[VidX]

Probably not, but I'm not sure yet. Basically for the reasons already mentioned and for another one - life is already short, I'm not too eager to sacrifice a good portion of it to a kid, or even worse - kidS. But that's just how I see it. That actually sounds funny, as if my parents would've thought that I wouldn't be here writing, but hey.. that's probably how evolution is taking it's course (if we even wonder about whether it is worth to have children.. Maybe a few decades later millions of ppl will have this thought. It's about staying alive anyway, so if we manage to stay alive by staying alive there'll be no reason to "replicate" and to try it again and again..)..
Now I wish myself a good luck in a long-term partner-woman field, in case I won't change my mind, as they tend to be...*cough* less rational...

Edited by VidX, 18 October 2009 - 10:36 AM.

[kismet]

Definitely yes. I think that have children is one of the better things in life that you can do.

Why and by which standard?